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Stellaris Dev Diary #92: FTL Rework and Galactic Terrain

Hello everyone and welcome to another Stellaris development diary. Today's dev diary is about Faster than Light travel in the Cherryh update, and it's likely to be a controversial one. When discussing, please remember to keep things civil, and I would kindly ask that you read the entire dev diary before rushing to post, as it's going to cover some of the questions and concerns we expect to see from the playerbase. Also, as posted last week, all of these changes are currently far away, and we cannot give more details on ETAs or the exact nature of the Cherryh update than we already have. Thank you!

FTL Rework
The single biggest design issue we have had to tackle in the Stellaris team since release is the asymmetrical FTL. While it's a cool and interesting idea on paper, the honest truth is that the feature just does not fit well into the game in practice, and blocks numerous improvements on a myriad of other features such as warfare and exploration, as well as solutions to fundamental design problems like the weakness of static defenses. After a lot of debate among the designers, we finally decided that if we were ever going to be able to tackle these issues and turn Stellaris into a game with truly engrossing and interesting warfare, we would have to bite the bullet and take a controversial decision: Consolidating FTL from the current three types down into a primarily hyperlane-based game, with more advanced forms of FTL unlocked through technology.

However, as I have said on the previous occasions when discussing this issue, one thing we would never consider doing is just slashing FTL types from the game without adding in something else to compensate their loss. That is what most of this dev diary is going to be about. However, before continuing with the details on the additions and changes we're making to FTL, I want to cover a couple of the questions I expect will arise from this:

Why are you removing FTL choices instead of building on them?
A lot of people have asked this question when we have brought up consolidating FTL types before, suggesting that problems such as static defenses can be solved by just adding more mechanics to handle each special case. I think the problem with this is best illustrated with defense stations and FTL inhibitors. One of the aims of the Starbase system is to give empires the ability to 'lock down' their borders, building fortresses that enemy fleets cannot simply skip past to strike at their core worlds, instead of having to create static defenses in every single valuable system.

With hyperlanes, this is a pretty simple affair: As hyperlanes create natural choke points, the only thing a hyperlane-stopping FTL inhibitor needs to do is to prevent enemy fleets from leaving the system once they enter it. The fleet can enter, it can retreat (via emergency FTL) and it can bring down the source of the FTL inhibitor (which might be a Starbase or even a planet) to be able to continue. This is quite easy to understand, both in terms of which system you need to defend to lock down your borders, and how it works when you are on the offensive.

Now let's add Warp to the mix. In this case, the single-system FTL inhibitor is useless because Warp fleets can just go over it, so we'll invent another mechanic: A warp interdiction bubble, stretching a certain distance around the system, that pull in any hostile Warp fleets traveling there to the system containing the FTL inhibitor, and force them to battle it or retreat. This is immediately a lot more messy: First of all, this bubble can't possibly affect Hyperlane fleets, because it could potentially pull them dozens of jumps away from their current location. This means that when fortifying your borders, you now need to not just make sure that every important chokepoint is covered, but also that your entire border is covered in warp interdiction bubbles.

But there's more: Add Wormholes as well, and you now have an FTL type where not only the 'bubble' type interdictor doesn't make intuitive sense (because Wormhole fleets make point-to-point jumps rather than traveling over the map) but if said interdictor works to pull Wormhole fleets out of position regardless of what makes intuitive sense, you end up with the same probem as with hyperlanes, where the fleet can get pulled out of range of its wormhole network and end up stranded even if it brings down the defenses. This means you pretty much have to invent a third type of interdiction type for Wormhole on top of what is already an overengineered and hard to understand system.

Finally, add the problem of displaying all these different types of inhibitors and interdictors on the map, in a way that the player can even remotely start to understand, and you end up with nothing short of a complete mess, where it's far better to just have static defenses protecting single valuable systems... and so we come full circle.

This is the fundamental problem that we have been grappling with when it comes to asymmetrical FTL: What works in a game such as Sword of the Stars, with its turn-based gameplay, small maps of usually no more than 3-6 empires, and 1-on-1 wars breaks down completely in a Stellaris game with real-time gameplay and wars potentially containing a dozen actors, all with their own form of FTL. The complexity collapses into what is for the player just a mess of fleets appearing and disappearing with no discernible logic to them.

Why Hyperlanes?
When discussing this, we essentially boiled down the consolidation into three possibilities: Hyperlanes only, Warp-only, and Warp+Hyperlanes. Wormhole is simply too different a FTL type to ever really work with the others, and not intuitive enough to work as the sole starting FTL for everyone playing the game. Keeping both Warp and Hyperlanes would be an improvement, but would still keep many of the issues we currently have in regards to user experience and fleet coordination. Warp-only was considered as an alternative, but ultimately Hyperlanes won out because of the possibilities it opens up for galactic geography, static defenses and enhancements to exploration.

Here are the some of the possibilities that consolidation of FTL into Hyperlanes creates for Stellaris:
  • Unified distance, sensor and border systems that make sense for everyone (for example, cost of claiming a system not being based on euclidean distance but rather the actual distance for ships to travel there)
  • Galactic 'geography', systems that are strategically and tactically important due to location and 'terrain' (more on this below) rather than just resources
  • More possibilities for galaxy generation and exploration (for example, entire regions of space accessible only through a wormhole or a single guarded hyperlane, containing special locations and events to discover)
  • Better performance through caching and unified code (Wormhole FTL in particular is a massive resource hog in the late game)
  • Warfare with a distinct sense of 'theatres', advancing/retreating fronts and border skirmishes (more on this in future dev diaries)
Are all new forms of FTL free patch content?
Yes. Naturally we're not going to charge for any form of content meant to replace the loss of old FTL types.

Hyperlane and Sublight Travel
As mentioned, in the Cherryh update. all empires will now start the game with Hyperlanes as their only mode of FTL. By default, hyperlane generation is going to be changed to create more 'islands' and 'choke points', to make for more interesting galactic geography. However, as we know some players do not enjoy the idea of constricted space, we are going to add a slider that controls the general frequency and connectivity of hyperlanes. Turning this up will create a more connected galaxy and make it harder to protect all your systems with static defenses, for players who prefer something closer to the current game's Warp-style movement.

Sublight travel is also being changed somewhat, in the sense that you need to actually travel to the entry point to a particular hyperlane (the arrow inside a system) to enter it, rather than being able to enter any hyperlane from any point outside's a system's gravity well. This means that fleets will move in a more predictable fashion, and interdictions will frequently happen inside systems instead of nearly always being at the edge of them, in particular allowing for fleets to 'guard' important hyperlane entry/exit points. To compensate for the need to move across systems, sublight travel has been sped up, especially with more advanced forms of thrusters.
2017_11_02_2.png


FTL Sensors
Along with the change to FTL, we are also changing the way sensors work. Instead of simply being a circle radiating an arbitrary distance from a ship, station or planet, each level of sensors can now see a certain distance in FTL connections. For example, a ship with level 1 sensors (Radar) will only give sensor coverage of the same system that it is currently in, while a ship with level 2 (Gravitic) sensors will give sensor coverage of that system and all systems connected to it through a Hyperlane or explored Wormhole (more on that below), a ship with level 3 sensors will be able to see systems connected to those systems, and so on. Sensor coverage can be 'blocked' by certain galactic features (more on that below), which will also block propagation into further connected systems. We are currently discussing the implementation of sensor blockers as a potential Starbase component.
2017_11_02_1.png


Wormholes
While Wormhole as a full-fledged FTL type is gone, Wormholes are not. Instead they have been changed into a natural formation that can be encountered while exploring the galaxy. Wormholes come in pairs, essentially functioning as very long hyperlanes that can potentially take a ship across the entire galaxy near-instantly. Natural Wormholes are unstable, and when first encountered, you will not be able to explore them. To explore a Wormhole, you need the Wormhole Stabilization technology, after which a science ship can be sent to stabilize and chart the Wormhole to find out what lies on the other side. If you're lucky, this may be unclaimed space full of valuable systems, but it could just as well be a Devouring Swarm eager to come over for dinner. There is a slider on game setup that controls the frequency of wormhole pairs in the galaxy.
2017_11_02_4.png


Gateways
Gateways is an advanced form of FTL most closely resembling the Wormhole FTL in the live version of the game. While exploring the galaxy, you can find abandoned Gateways that were once part of a massive, galaxy-spanning network. These Gateways are disabled and unusable, but with the Gateway Reactivation mid-game technology and a hefty investment of minerals, they can be restored to working order. Like Wormholes, Gateways allow for near-instant travel to other Gateways, but the difference is that any activated Gateway can be used to travel to any other activated Gateway, and late-game technology allows for the construction of more Gateways to expand the network. Also unlike Wormholes, which cannot be 'closed', Gateways also have the advantage of allowing any empire controlling the system they're in to control who goes through said Gateway - hostile empires and empires to whom you have closed your borders will not be able to use 'your' Gateways to just appear inside of your systems.

When the first Gateway is re-activated, another random Gateway will also be re-activated along with it, so that there is never a situation where you just have a single active Gateway going nowhere. There is a slider on game setup that controls the frequency of abandoned gateways in the galaxy.
2017_11_02_8.png


Jump Drives
Jump Drives and Psi Jump Drives have been changed, and is now an advanced form of FTL that mixes Hyperdrive with some functionality from the old Warp FTL. They allow for a ship to travel normally and very quickly along hyperlanes, but also come equipped with a tactical 'jump' functionality that allows a fleet to make a point-to-point jump ignoring the normal hyperlane limitations. This is done with a special fleet order where you select a target system for the jump (within a certain pre-defined range, with Psi Jump Drives having longer range than regular Jump Drives), after which the fleet charges up its jump drive and creates a temporary wormhole leading to the system. After the fleet makes its 'jump', the Jump Drive will need to recharge, with a significant cooldown before it can be used again, and also applies a debuff to the fleet that reduces its combat effectiveness while the cooldown is in effect. This allows for fleets with Jump Drives to ignore the usual FTL restrictions and skip straight past enemy fleets and stations, but at the cost of leaving themselves vulnerable and potentially stranded for a time afterwards. This design is highly experimental, and may change during the development of Cherryh, but we wanted Jump Drives to not just be 'Hyperdrive IV' but rather to unlock new tactical and strategic possibilities for warfare.

Galactic Terrain
With the switch to Hyperlanes and the creation of strategically important systems and chokepoints, we've also decided to implement something we had always thought was a really interesting idea, but which made little sense without such chokepoints: Galactic Terrain. Specifically, systems with environmental effects and hazards that have profound tactical and strategic effects on ships and empires. This is still something we are in the middle of testing and prototyping, but so far we have created the following forms of Galactic Terrain:
Nebulas block all sensor coverage originating from other systems, meaning that it's impossible for an empire to see what ships and stations are inside a system in a nebula without having a ship or station stationed there, allowing empires to hide their fleets and set up ambushes.
Pulsars interfere with deflector technology, nullifying all ship and station shields in a system with a Pulsar.
Neutron Stars interfere with navigation and ship systems, significantly slowing down sublight travel in a system with a Neutron Star.
Black Holes interfere with FTL, increasing the time it takes for a fleet to charge its emergency FTL and making it more difficult to ships to individually disengage from combat (more on this in a later dev diary).

The above is just a first iteration, and it's something we're likely to tweak and build on more for both the Cherryh update and other updates beyond it, so stay tuned for more information on this.
2017_11_02_3.png

2017_11_02_5.png


That's all for today! I will finish this dev diary by saying that we do not expect everyone to be happy with these changes, but we truly believe that they are necessary to give Stellaris truly great warfare, and that we think you will find the game better for it once you get a chance to try them. We will be doing a Design Corner feature on today's Extraterrestial Thursday stream, where me and Game Designer Daniel Moregård (grekulf) will be discussing the changes, fielding questions and showing off some gameplay in the internal development build. If you want a look at some of these changes in a live game environment, be sure to tune to the Paradox Interactive twitch channel at 4pm CET.

Next week, we're going to talk about war and peace, including the complete rework of the current wargoal system that was made possible by the changes to FTL and system control discussed in this and last week's dev diary. See you then!
 
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Solkanar

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If devs make decisions and announce them in a forum, why can't we say that we don't like those decisions.
It's the whole point of a forum. If there is even a remote chance to reverse a bad decision we should be able to take it.

Back on topic
I do not think it is a satisfactory solution to leave warp drive to the Modders. They do an excellent job but when I bought Stellaris, I bought it for the roleplay elements and the flexibility in FTL travel is (was?) one very enjoyable aspect of that. Removing that feels like a cheat.

I still think removing (especially) Warp is a very bad decision.

If you want to play a pure hyperlane game, it is perfectly possible to do so now and will be in the future! Those new features will be great for hyperlanes and I am happy for tfans of hyperlanes because they (hopefully) get a better game.

But me, I really liked the chaotic aspect of trying to defend your big empire against enemy incursions from everywhere. Yes, it made defensive structures useless and it made wars sometimes a PITA but that is warfare in the vast expanse of space to me. You cannot build a wall in space!

You will take that feeling away from me and I am very sad about it because it feels unnecessary and rude.

Removing core elements of your game to counter problems is lazy and counterproductive. Alienating a part of the players of your game is not a wise business decision.
 

pcavalcanti

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After DD96 I guess the FTL changes had nothing to do with improving warfare other than making it more predictable. They offered no satisfactory solution to doomstacking other than making it so that when you take a system the resources go to the attacker - forcing you to split your fleets all over the place to protect certain systems with a decent number of resources spreading your fleets thin. That basically means that people will only be able to take and defend a few systems here and there but if you want a core planet you'd better doomstack again to get through their fortresses and leave all those little systems undefended, again.

Even if predictable travel could help them implement things like trade routes, spying/covert operations, etc. overall It feels like change for the sake of change - they are making a different game, not necessarily better.
 

kettch

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1. How do you rationalize fortifications in space? The point of space is that you cannot build fortifications in space. In the open sea, there are no such thing as a lane which you must take. Imagine how much easier the attack on pearl harbor could have been if the americans knew the distinct direction where the japanese would come from and the japanese had to fight through all of the other islands before reaching pearl habor.

I read statements like this a lot here letely. And it really annoys me every time. We are talking about Sci-Fi here. Space is about what the creator of the franchise decides it to be about.
In Freespace Systems were connected by a were limited number of naturally occuring Jump Nodes. This was a decision made be the developers and probably made because it favored the great war narrative. The notion that space has to equal freedom may be deep-seated in your mind but that does not make it an universal truth. Other people might have wildly different associations.
On the topic of Pearl Harbor I'll just assume you meant to say it would have been easier for the Americans and not the Japanese, as the whole statement would not make sense otherwise. As I see it, possibly not knowing where the Japanese came from is completely irrelevant, as the Americans did not really expect the Japanese to attack at all (Let's just keep imaginative theories on different views on this out of this thread, please? It's bad enough as is already.).
If they had known, kicking up some patrols and getting prepared in time would not have been that much of an issue, no matter from which direction the Japanese attacked from.
Also: Pearl Harbor was a heavily fortified military base. As opposed to the American Mainland coast, which was pretty much unfortified afaik. Which made sense, because you needed to take Pearl Harbor first because of travelling distances and supply lines. What we have here is a strategically important fortress protecting your core territory as opposed to having to fortify all your important assets indiviually. So pretty much the opposite of what you are stating.

2. Forts in EU4 did not make the game significantly better or more fun than it was before. I genuinely do not understand your appeal with and fascination with fortifications and defensive warfare. I do not think it will add much to Stellaris being able to play as Space France.

But they did. To me at least. Before Forts you had only Armies to plan with, usually leading to Armies just dancing around each other or one chasing the other. Forts are an additional tactical asset giving you additional options. A well-placed fort can stop an enemy for months or even years if the dice like you, freeing up your whole army to do other things, like kicking someone else out of the war, reducing the fronts you have to tend to. I personally consider Forts to be one of the best additions over the years. I know there are different opinions about this around but stating that fortifications in general or defensive gameplay can not be fun seems to be a really high pitch to me, honestly.

Seriously. I would really love for people in this thread to be a bit more humble about what's their own opinions and tastes and how that might somehow differ from universal truth.
 

Kappenloch

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I would prefer Total War with a space skin than EU4 or whatever.

Then you should take a look at Sword of the Stars II. The strategic layer is pretty crap, thanks to some truly awful thick-headed design decisions and a UI from hell, but the tactical combat is deep, detailed and totally awesome. Closest thing to Total War with a space skin you can get.
 

ZachtheSpacePirate

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Personally, love this change. IMO the worst part of Stellaris is chasing/pursuing/or landing a fatal blow on your opponent's fleets when you had differing FTL mechanics. My most recent game had one particular infuriating moment. I was playing with jump while my opponent had hyperlane FTL, when after a literal year or more of ingame time I finally landed my fleets on top of my opponent's fleets in a system (literally on top), but because of jump cooldown I couldn't attack and my opponent simply flew away, starting the process all over again (this induced a rage tantrum). Maybe other players have mastered the mechanics but it seems that a certain time period within the jump cooldown my ships can't do anything, or at least can't engage with opposing fleets.

I realize at some point during the jump cooldown period my fleets would (pretty sure) have engaged but that did not occur and I believe there is some period where your jump ships are literally unable to attack even when positioned entirely on the opposing fleet during the initial jump cooldown. I am actually fine with this theoretically but if it were really the case that your ships can't do anything during the jump cooldown (or even a subportion of the jump cooldown) then my enemy should have been able to just blast my ships while my crews looked on helplessly. But this is not the case, my enemy didn't attack but just moved on. In essence, through exploitation of the mechanics, you are forced to wait for your opponent's fleets to engage. Alternatively you could set a trap in a system but with large empires and multiple fronts it becomes impossible to predict which system to trap in and/or financially exhausting having trap stations in each border system on top of requiring large enough fleet be station within jump distance. But even in that case when you land within your system you have to wait for the cooldown in order to start your sub-FTL engines and move within systems at all (at which point the enemy fleet may be gone anyways).

And remember the jump cooldown becomes ridiculous when fleets get large (three months or more in-game time). Maybe the jump cooldown is an oft complained of subject or maybe people love it but personally it is really annoying to me. In addition and as stated above, the theoretical problem with the jump cooldown is that: although you are unable to do anything with a jump fleet in cooldown, it can respond to an attack/ambush. This, i believe, makes no sense.

Why in one case can a jump fleet on cooldown respond (and even turn on their engines to dodge attacks) but in all other cases the jump fleet is stuck for three months while they "cooldown" their engines. I can see no discernable difference other than the fleet is facing destruction in one case and not in the others. What is the in-game basis (non-developer reason) for the difference? Is it that the captains of the jump fleet are suddenly getting off their as***s because they face immediate danger? Don't the jump fleet captains know that they need reach a specific system ASAP and that their reaching the particular system will mean the war is won or lost? Either you should be in cooldown for that time period or you should not, because there is no sufficient explanation for the difference in the mechanics (in-game at least).

AND I understand why it works this way mechanically: because your jump empires would be at a catastrophic disadvantage for three months in every system it landed in. Not being able to fire back at an attacking enemy for three months would mean you lose even to fleets at half your number/power. To me, the current explanation is that the mechanics have to work this way otherwise people would never choose jump FTL.

To conclude, the proposed changes do seem to fix this problem by essentially making the cooldown mechanic work as expected by giving you a distinct disadvantage combat-wise when jumping and cooling-down in a system. I really like this change by the developers. Good job! Y'all can call me stupid now. HAHA
 

JamesJameson

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This is great, I really think this will make me jump back onto this game. All the games I have played I put it on hyperlanes for all just because it adds strategy to the game. While the free roaming was nice, it made for awful play.
 

Black5Raven

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All the games I have played I put it on hyperlanes for all just because it adds strategy to the game.
Strategy to keep your doomstack near your defence perimeter ? Yeah a lot strategy
I really think this will make me jump back onto this game
Congrats - you already can play hyperline only
 

Black5Raven

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Because that's obviously the only change in the entire update...
ah yes, who cares about wormholes and warp being removed from game .
P.S. Natural wormholes and gates ITS NOT replacing removed FTL
they would be an excellent addition to the existing system, but not its replacement! Which they are not.
 

Time Flies

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I'd like to voice my opinion that I am in the "dislike these changes" camp.

I'm not going to bother writing a long post about it as the majority of my concerns are covered by multiple other posters/posts in the thread.

The one thing I'd like to point out is that this change makes Stellaris no different than many of the other 4x games out there on the market. Your current system makes Stellaris unique, and so it's a shame to lose it. I can understand the balancing issues though, especially in multiplayer where human players will take advantage potentially.

**My suggestion : keep the multi-FTL travel as an option, but begin to develop content that would focus on the hyperlane FTL travel method only.

My two cents whether it matters at this point or not.
 

Templareaid

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Personally I'm all for the change, the fact that warp made defensive play styles pointless was always a bugbear to me. I preferred warp travel since hyperlane felt a bit restrictive but the slider should change that enough for it to not bother me plus all the additions that come with this to me seem worth the change, galactic terrain, choke points, gateways, actually being able to have defensive structures that do something in systems.

The fact that they can now have systems that are only accessible via a single well defended lane means they can play around with events or locations sounds worth it to me. Can't really have those same events or locations if someone could just warp past them ignoring all danger. Being able to do ambushes in nebula's or trying to force an enemy to fight around a pulsar adds strategy to the game that I personally don't feel is lost by removing warp as they could again, just warp past them.
 

Denthris

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I'm a heavy user of Hyperspace Gates, but honestly the new gates sound rather exciting. I've tried player Hyperspace lanes before and hated it, not because of Hyperspace Lanes, but the fact that I would have to make 20 jumps to get back to some system that a Warp opponent could simply jump to. At least Gates, I could hunt down and destroy the Gates (possibly). I like the idea of actually putting a use to the Defense. So only real use for Defense at the moment is the AI using them to randomly blow up my Auto exploring Science Vessels I forgot to set back to cowardly.

And the description of the new "Gates" sounds interesting, so I will be looking forward to seeing what can be done with them. The increase speed of sub light will also be a welcome thing.

And to those people complaining about Death Stacks just sitting on the Border..... Then how in the heck are you going to attack? Do you only have 1 Border that you need to defend? Most games I've played, unless they have a statical advantage most AI players don't change at your Death Stack anyway, so leaving your Death Stack on the border, will accomplish very little.
 

JamesJameson

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Strategy to keep your doomstack near your defence perimeter ? Yeah a lot strategy...
Congrats - you already can play hyperline only
Oh my bad, that was a comment to the dev diary, not for debate. We feel differently what strategy is, but I'm not really into who can do the best click fest. Some people are and that's fine, I mean those games have there place for sure, but that's not what I personally wanted from this game. Sorry you don't like it!
 

Black5Raven

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Sorry you don't like it!
I have no problems with the way you play, your style of play and others stuff
The only thing I do not like is cutting out the content that was originally in the game and for which I paid.
This terrible decision is deception of users.
 

Inanis Crucis

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For the developers, I can understand that jumpdrives and wormholes can be a bit stressful during wartime in the game but I feel only using hyperspace games would make the game lose the unique feature of choosing what kind of FTL drive you can use in the game. I feel you are all pushing hyperlane drives is because it makes more sense and easier to understand and use but we already have enough games like Endless Space and Galatic Civilization with all of this hyperlane stuff and I find it boring to use. Using jumpdrives and wormholes give this game a more fun and unique experience compare to many other games that only has hyperlane drives. If you heavily don't like it, just balance the power of both of jumpdrive and wormhole drives and let us use the three drives by choice. I would most likely not enjoy just using hyperlane drives most of the time and researching them to change it can be frustrating in my opinion. I hope you devs consider my opinion and others who think just using hyperlane drives will not be a fun game experience. Thank you.
 

NexusCron

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Galactic Civilizations is not limited to hyperlanes, are you sure your talking about the same game? I'm playing it right now, you can essentially go anywhere with the ships, you are not limited to specific lanes like in endless space.
 

sillyrobot

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Personally I'm all for the change, the fact that warp made defensive play styles pointless was always a bugbear to me. I preferred warp travel since hyperlane felt a bit restrictive but the slider should change that enough for it to not bother me plus all the additions that come with this to me seem worth the change, galactic terrain, choke points, gateways, actually being able to have defensive structures that do something in systems.

The fact that they can now have systems that are only accessible via a single well defended lane means they can play around with events or locations sounds worth it to me. Can't really have those same events or locations if someone could just warp past them ignoring all danger. Being able to do ambushes in nebula's or trying to force an enemy to fight around a pulsar adds strategy to the game that I personally don't feel is lost by removing warp as they could again, just warp past them.

But if you play around with the slider to relieve the restriction, you will lose the choke points, ability to funnel opponents through terrain, and single well defended lane scenario as a consequence. So pick one: restrictive play with added considerations or somewhat less restrictive play without.
 

Templareaid

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But if you play around with the slider to relieve the restriction, you will lose the choke points, ability to funnel opponents through terrain, and single well defended lane scenario as a consequence. So pick one: restrictive play with added considerations or somewhat less restrictive play without.
The point is I can pick one based on what I want. I don't have to have it one way or another the entire time.
 
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