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Stellaris Dev Diary #92: FTL Rework and Galactic Terrain

Hello everyone and welcome to another Stellaris development diary. Today's dev diary is about Faster than Light travel in the Cherryh update, and it's likely to be a controversial one. When discussing, please remember to keep things civil, and I would kindly ask that you read the entire dev diary before rushing to post, as it's going to cover some of the questions and concerns we expect to see from the playerbase. Also, as posted last week, all of these changes are currently far away, and we cannot give more details on ETAs or the exact nature of the Cherryh update than we already have. Thank you!

FTL Rework
The single biggest design issue we have had to tackle in the Stellaris team since release is the asymmetrical FTL. While it's a cool and interesting idea on paper, the honest truth is that the feature just does not fit well into the game in practice, and blocks numerous improvements on a myriad of other features such as warfare and exploration, as well as solutions to fundamental design problems like the weakness of static defenses. After a lot of debate among the designers, we finally decided that if we were ever going to be able to tackle these issues and turn Stellaris into a game with truly engrossing and interesting warfare, we would have to bite the bullet and take a controversial decision: Consolidating FTL from the current three types down into a primarily hyperlane-based game, with more advanced forms of FTL unlocked through technology.

However, as I have said on the previous occasions when discussing this issue, one thing we would never consider doing is just slashing FTL types from the game without adding in something else to compensate their loss. That is what most of this dev diary is going to be about. However, before continuing with the details on the additions and changes we're making to FTL, I want to cover a couple of the questions I expect will arise from this:

Why are you removing FTL choices instead of building on them?
A lot of people have asked this question when we have brought up consolidating FTL types before, suggesting that problems such as static defenses can be solved by just adding more mechanics to handle each special case. I think the problem with this is best illustrated with defense stations and FTL inhibitors. One of the aims of the Starbase system is to give empires the ability to 'lock down' their borders, building fortresses that enemy fleets cannot simply skip past to strike at their core worlds, instead of having to create static defenses in every single valuable system.

With hyperlanes, this is a pretty simple affair: As hyperlanes create natural choke points, the only thing a hyperlane-stopping FTL inhibitor needs to do is to prevent enemy fleets from leaving the system once they enter it. The fleet can enter, it can retreat (via emergency FTL) and it can bring down the source of the FTL inhibitor (which might be a Starbase or even a planet) to be able to continue. This is quite easy to understand, both in terms of which system you need to defend to lock down your borders, and how it works when you are on the offensive.

Now let's add Warp to the mix. In this case, the single-system FTL inhibitor is useless because Warp fleets can just go over it, so we'll invent another mechanic: A warp interdiction bubble, stretching a certain distance around the system, that pull in any hostile Warp fleets traveling there to the system containing the FTL inhibitor, and force them to battle it or retreat. This is immediately a lot more messy: First of all, this bubble can't possibly affect Hyperlane fleets, because it could potentially pull them dozens of jumps away from their current location. This means that when fortifying your borders, you now need to not just make sure that every important chokepoint is covered, but also that your entire border is covered in warp interdiction bubbles.

But there's more: Add Wormholes as well, and you now have an FTL type where not only the 'bubble' type interdictor doesn't make intuitive sense (because Wormhole fleets make point-to-point jumps rather than traveling over the map) but if said interdictor works to pull Wormhole fleets out of position regardless of what makes intuitive sense, you end up with the same probem as with hyperlanes, where the fleet can get pulled out of range of its wormhole network and end up stranded even if it brings down the defenses. This means you pretty much have to invent a third type of interdiction type for Wormhole on top of what is already an overengineered and hard to understand system.

Finally, add the problem of displaying all these different types of inhibitors and interdictors on the map, in a way that the player can even remotely start to understand, and you end up with nothing short of a complete mess, where it's far better to just have static defenses protecting single valuable systems... and so we come full circle.

This is the fundamental problem that we have been grappling with when it comes to asymmetrical FTL: What works in a game such as Sword of the Stars, with its turn-based gameplay, small maps of usually no more than 3-6 empires, and 1-on-1 wars breaks down completely in a Stellaris game with real-time gameplay and wars potentially containing a dozen actors, all with their own form of FTL. The complexity collapses into what is for the player just a mess of fleets appearing and disappearing with no discernible logic to them.

Why Hyperlanes?
When discussing this, we essentially boiled down the consolidation into three possibilities: Hyperlanes only, Warp-only, and Warp+Hyperlanes. Wormhole is simply too different a FTL type to ever really work with the others, and not intuitive enough to work as the sole starting FTL for everyone playing the game. Keeping both Warp and Hyperlanes would be an improvement, but would still keep many of the issues we currently have in regards to user experience and fleet coordination. Warp-only was considered as an alternative, but ultimately Hyperlanes won out because of the possibilities it opens up for galactic geography, static defenses and enhancements to exploration.

Here are the some of the possibilities that consolidation of FTL into Hyperlanes creates for Stellaris:
  • Unified distance, sensor and border systems that make sense for everyone (for example, cost of claiming a system not being based on euclidean distance but rather the actual distance for ships to travel there)
  • Galactic 'geography', systems that are strategically and tactically important due to location and 'terrain' (more on this below) rather than just resources
  • More possibilities for galaxy generation and exploration (for example, entire regions of space accessible only through a wormhole or a single guarded hyperlane, containing special locations and events to discover)
  • Better performance through caching and unified code (Wormhole FTL in particular is a massive resource hog in the late game)
  • Warfare with a distinct sense of 'theatres', advancing/retreating fronts and border skirmishes (more on this in future dev diaries)
Are all new forms of FTL free patch content?
Yes. Naturally we're not going to charge for any form of content meant to replace the loss of old FTL types.

Hyperlane and Sublight Travel
As mentioned, in the Cherryh update. all empires will now start the game with Hyperlanes as their only mode of FTL. By default, hyperlane generation is going to be changed to create more 'islands' and 'choke points', to make for more interesting galactic geography. However, as we know some players do not enjoy the idea of constricted space, we are going to add a slider that controls the general frequency and connectivity of hyperlanes. Turning this up will create a more connected galaxy and make it harder to protect all your systems with static defenses, for players who prefer something closer to the current game's Warp-style movement.

Sublight travel is also being changed somewhat, in the sense that you need to actually travel to the entry point to a particular hyperlane (the arrow inside a system) to enter it, rather than being able to enter any hyperlane from any point outside's a system's gravity well. This means that fleets will move in a more predictable fashion, and interdictions will frequently happen inside systems instead of nearly always being at the edge of them, in particular allowing for fleets to 'guard' important hyperlane entry/exit points. To compensate for the need to move across systems, sublight travel has been sped up, especially with more advanced forms of thrusters.
2017_11_02_2.png


FTL Sensors
Along with the change to FTL, we are also changing the way sensors work. Instead of simply being a circle radiating an arbitrary distance from a ship, station or planet, each level of sensors can now see a certain distance in FTL connections. For example, a ship with level 1 sensors (Radar) will only give sensor coverage of the same system that it is currently in, while a ship with level 2 (Gravitic) sensors will give sensor coverage of that system and all systems connected to it through a Hyperlane or explored Wormhole (more on that below), a ship with level 3 sensors will be able to see systems connected to those systems, and so on. Sensor coverage can be 'blocked' by certain galactic features (more on that below), which will also block propagation into further connected systems. We are currently discussing the implementation of sensor blockers as a potential Starbase component.
2017_11_02_1.png


Wormholes
While Wormhole as a full-fledged FTL type is gone, Wormholes are not. Instead they have been changed into a natural formation that can be encountered while exploring the galaxy. Wormholes come in pairs, essentially functioning as very long hyperlanes that can potentially take a ship across the entire galaxy near-instantly. Natural Wormholes are unstable, and when first encountered, you will not be able to explore them. To explore a Wormhole, you need the Wormhole Stabilization technology, after which a science ship can be sent to stabilize and chart the Wormhole to find out what lies on the other side. If you're lucky, this may be unclaimed space full of valuable systems, but it could just as well be a Devouring Swarm eager to come over for dinner. There is a slider on game setup that controls the frequency of wormhole pairs in the galaxy.
2017_11_02_4.png


Gateways
Gateways is an advanced form of FTL most closely resembling the Wormhole FTL in the live version of the game. While exploring the galaxy, you can find abandoned Gateways that were once part of a massive, galaxy-spanning network. These Gateways are disabled and unusable, but with the Gateway Reactivation mid-game technology and a hefty investment of minerals, they can be restored to working order. Like Wormholes, Gateways allow for near-instant travel to other Gateways, but the difference is that any activated Gateway can be used to travel to any other activated Gateway, and late-game technology allows for the construction of more Gateways to expand the network. Also unlike Wormholes, which cannot be 'closed', Gateways also have the advantage of allowing any empire controlling the system they're in to control who goes through said Gateway - hostile empires and empires to whom you have closed your borders will not be able to use 'your' Gateways to just appear inside of your systems.

When the first Gateway is re-activated, another random Gateway will also be re-activated along with it, so that there is never a situation where you just have a single active Gateway going nowhere. There is a slider on game setup that controls the frequency of abandoned gateways in the galaxy.
2017_11_02_8.png


Jump Drives
Jump Drives and Psi Jump Drives have been changed, and is now an advanced form of FTL that mixes Hyperdrive with some functionality from the old Warp FTL. They allow for a ship to travel normally and very quickly along hyperlanes, but also come equipped with a tactical 'jump' functionality that allows a fleet to make a point-to-point jump ignoring the normal hyperlane limitations. This is done with a special fleet order where you select a target system for the jump (within a certain pre-defined range, with Psi Jump Drives having longer range than regular Jump Drives), after which the fleet charges up its jump drive and creates a temporary wormhole leading to the system. After the fleet makes its 'jump', the Jump Drive will need to recharge, with a significant cooldown before it can be used again, and also applies a debuff to the fleet that reduces its combat effectiveness while the cooldown is in effect. This allows for fleets with Jump Drives to ignore the usual FTL restrictions and skip straight past enemy fleets and stations, but at the cost of leaving themselves vulnerable and potentially stranded for a time afterwards. This design is highly experimental, and may change during the development of Cherryh, but we wanted Jump Drives to not just be 'Hyperdrive IV' but rather to unlock new tactical and strategic possibilities for warfare.

Galactic Terrain
With the switch to Hyperlanes and the creation of strategically important systems and chokepoints, we've also decided to implement something we had always thought was a really interesting idea, but which made little sense without such chokepoints: Galactic Terrain. Specifically, systems with environmental effects and hazards that have profound tactical and strategic effects on ships and empires. This is still something we are in the middle of testing and prototyping, but so far we have created the following forms of Galactic Terrain:
Nebulas block all sensor coverage originating from other systems, meaning that it's impossible for an empire to see what ships and stations are inside a system in a nebula without having a ship or station stationed there, allowing empires to hide their fleets and set up ambushes.
Pulsars interfere with deflector technology, nullifying all ship and station shields in a system with a Pulsar.
Neutron Stars interfere with navigation and ship systems, significantly slowing down sublight travel in a system with a Neutron Star.
Black Holes interfere with FTL, increasing the time it takes for a fleet to charge its emergency FTL and making it more difficult to ships to individually disengage from combat (more on this in a later dev diary).

The above is just a first iteration, and it's something we're likely to tweak and build on more for both the Cherryh update and other updates beyond it, so stay tuned for more information on this.
2017_11_02_3.png

2017_11_02_5.png


That's all for today! I will finish this dev diary by saying that we do not expect everyone to be happy with these changes, but we truly believe that they are necessary to give Stellaris truly great warfare, and that we think you will find the game better for it once you get a chance to try them. We will be doing a Design Corner feature on today's Extraterrestial Thursday stream, where me and Game Designer Daniel Moregård (grekulf) will be discussing the changes, fielding questions and showing off some gameplay in the internal development build. If you want a look at some of these changes in a live game environment, be sure to tune to the Paradox Interactive twitch channel at 4pm CET.

Next week, we're going to talk about war and peace, including the complete rework of the current wargoal system that was made possible by the changes to FTL and system control discussed in this and last week's dev diary. See you then!
 
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Held der Arbeit

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1: A loss of 30% support would affect any franchise, it is not a negligible number.
What if your boss axed 30% if your salary? This is not a representative democracy where 51% of the votes is all you need, piss off those 30% enough and they will vote with their wallets.

2: no, ftl is theoretically possible, as iterated before, both as warp and wormholes, however hyperlanes hold no basis in reality.

3: are you just here to gloat then?
1. Forums attract a minority of players to begin with. Usually the hardcore kind. Of which most are - evidently - in favor of or indifferent to the change. I'd venture to say that among the more casual fans the numbers are even greater. Asymetrical FTL was an interesting feature, but it wasn't and isn't what makes or breaks the game.
The Devs liked the feature initially (as did I), but it turned out to be a nuisance in practice, both from a (subjective) gameplay pov like i said in my post, but also from an objective Developer PoV, because important improvements for the game where hampered by the fact that they had to account for 3 wildly different means of travel. So it's a difficult choice, but ultimately a necessary one.

2. You can see hyperlanes both as stable, short range wormholes or as artificially assisted, directional warp. Both of which is just as theoretically possible or impossible as the other two. It's just that some people have this notion of how space is supposed to work, when the technology we are talking about here is way, waaaaaay beyond anything we can reasonably argue about today. Even the ones we deem realistic now were but fables a few decades ago and it's very possible that some physicist is cooking up a completely different one as we speak. It's Science FICTION. Not to mention that this is a 4x and not a space sim, so we should be more concerned about gameplay than about "simulating" our personal idea of "realistic" future space travel

3. Not really, I just wanted to throw in my 5cents that I liked the 3 types, but prefer hyperlanes for gameplay reasons and can also see the mechanical reasons why they gotta ditch the system. I honestly didnt even expect a reply. However, the heated response prompted me to stick around :p
 
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I'm honestly surprised at the amount of people claiming they only bought the game because of the 3 FLT types. I only played Warp because it was easiest, sometimes Wormhole, but i can say the change isn't a big deal for me, especially if it brings the changes to combat i'm hoping for (more strategy, less doomstacks).
 

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I'm honestly surprised at the amount of people claiming they only bought the game because of the 3 FLT types. I only played Warp because it was easiest, sometimes Wormhole, but i can say the change isn't a big deal for me, especially if it brings the changes to combat i'm hoping for (more strategy, less doomstacks).
because it was in the developer diaries and thus promised over 1.5 years ago. What kind of moron says "wow you bought a game for the stuff it promised? what an idiot!"
 

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1: A loss of 30% support would affect any franchise, it is not a negligible number.

2: no, ftl is theoretically possible, as iterated before, both as warp and wormholes, however hyperlanes hold no basis in reality.
1. Forums attract a minority of players to begin with. Usually the hardcore kind. Of which most are - evidently - in favor of or indifferent to the change. I'd venture to say that among the more casual fans the numbers are even greater. Asymetrical FTL was an interesting feature, but it wasn't and isn't what makes or breaks the game.
The Devs liked the feature initially (as did I), but it turned out to be a nuisance in practice, both from a (subjective) gameplay pov like i said in my post, but also from an objective Developer PoV, because important improvements for the game where hampered by the fact that they had to account for 3 wildly different means of travel. So it's a difficult choice, but ultimately a necessary one.

2. You can see hyperlanes both as stable, short range wormholes or as artificially assisted, directional warp. Both of which is just as theoretically possible or impossible as the other two. It's just that some people have this notion of how space is supposed to work, when the technology we are talking about here is way, waaaaaay beyond anything we can reasonably argue about today. Even the ones we deem realistic now were but fables a few decades ago and it's very possible that some physicist is cooking up a completely different. It's Science FICTION. Not to mention that this is a 4x and not a space sim, so we should be more concerned about gameplay than about "simulating" our personal idea of "realistic" future space travel

3. Not really, I just wanted to throw in my 5cents that I liked the 3 types, but prefer hyperlanes for gameplay reasons and can also see the mechanical reasons why they gotta ditch the system. I honestly didnt even expect a reply. However, the heated response prompted me to stick around :p
i get where you are coming from, but I don’t agree, MOO2 would pull off warp travel very much satisfactory and that was 20 years ago. I don’t buy this talk of hyperlanes being better or solving anything concerning the doomstacks or making exploration more interesting, this and other discussions on this forum have presented many better options than Mandatory hyperlanes.
Imagine blizzard turning SC into tower defense or Having half-life turned into a rail shooter. Of course it’s going to make development easier, but it’s not the game we set out to buy.
For some it’s not a big deal, but for many of us it is. A 4x, non hyperlane grad strategy space game that is also multiplayer is rare to come by, me and many others went into Stellaris on that premise alone, for we wanted realism and strategy unattainable through hyperlanes alone. We already have experience with hyperlanes from many other games and we find them lacking in flexibility and leading to static wars and unvaried gameplay.
The number 23% is the best we have to go by, and I believe it is very much representative for the Stellaris community at large.
 

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because it was in the developer diaries and thus promised over 1.5 years ago. What kind of moron says "wow you bought a game for the stuff it promised? what an idiot!"
Eh. He said hes surprised by people claiming they bought the game ONLY for the 3 FTL types.
There was a lot more in the Dev diaries than just that, you know.

Plus, it's not like anybody has been lying to you. They promised the feature, they delivered the feature, you played the feature (for more than 1,5 years).

You can technically even continue to play that feature if it is more important to you than the changes they will introduce
 

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i get where you are coming from, but I don’t agree, MOO2 would pull off warp travel very much satisfactory and that was 20 years ago. I don’t buy this talk of hyperlanes being better or solving anything concerning the doomstacks or making exploration more interesting, this and other discussions on this forum have presented many better options than Mandatory hyperlanes.
Imagine blizzard turning SC into tower defense or Having half-life turned into a rail shooter. Of course it’s going to make development easier, but it’s not the game we set out to buy.
For some it’s not a big deal, but for many of us it is. A 4x, non hyperlane grad strategy space game that is also multiplayer is rare to come by, me and many others went into Stellaris on that premise alone, for we wanted realism and strategy unattainable through hyperlanes alone. We already have experience with hyperlanes from many other games and we find them lacking in flexibility and leading to static wars and unvaried gameplay.
The number 23% is the best we have to go by, and I believe it is very much representative for the Stellaris community at large.
I appreciate the change in tone and I can see where you are coming from as well, but I do not think the change is quite as dramatical as turning the game into a TD or a rail shooter. There's still a lot of ways to circumvent the restrictions of hyperlanes (natural wormholes, gates, an option to make the hyperlane network a semi-warp network).

That said, the "static wars" are actually something I am really looking forward to, because I found the spammy whack-a-mole of warp and wormholes to be insanely annoying. Years of war spent doing nothing but chasing the main fleet around and swatting constructors and stragglers.
I can see why this was fun in some cases (e.g. fighting guerilla wars), but ultimately I think this will be balanced out by all the features that are made possible by the change (space "terrain", viable defensive structures, ambushes etc)
 

Obak

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Eh. He said hes surprised by people claiming they bought the game ONLY for the 3 FTL types.
There was a lot more in the Dev diaries than just that, you know.

Plus, it's not like anybody has been lying to you. They promised the feature, they delivered the feature, you played the feature (for more than 1,5 years).

You can technically even continue to play that feature if it is more important to you than the changes they will introduce
Imagine yourself getting a satellite dish and a cable package, then suddenly the distributer cut 2/3 of the channels. would it seem a fair deal? You could technically watch all your favorite shows on VHS!
 

Obak

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I appreciate the change in tone and I can see where you are coming from as well, but I do not think the change is quite as dramatical as turning the game into a TD or a rail shooter. There's still a lot of ways to circumvent the restrictions of hyperlanes (natural wormholes, gates, an option to make the hyperlane network a semi-warp network).

That said, the "static wars" are actually something I am really looking forward to, because I found the spammy whack-a-mole of warp and wormholes to be insanely annoying. Years of war spent doing nothing but chasing the main fleet around and swatting constructors and stragglers.
I can see why this was fun in some cases (e.g. fighting guerilla wars), but ultimately I think this will be balanced out by all the features that are made possible by the change (space "terrain", viable defensive structures, ambushes etc)
I am not this positive, but time will tell.
 

Held der Arbeit

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Imagine yourself getting a satellite dish and a cable package, then suddenly the distributer cut 2/3 of the channels. would it seem a fair deal? You could technically watch all your favorite shows on VHS!
Again with the hyperbole. It's not like they are cutting out 2/3rds of the game. Not even close

Also this happens in real life all the time. No more support for VHS, Casettes, CD's...soon no more DVDs..... In fact just a few months ago in my country they DID turn of all channels unless you switched to a new system, because the old one was outdated and unable to support future technologies. It's called progress.

Of course people are always free to keep the old stuff and enjoy it, but most decide not to, because usually there's a good reason for the change. But apparently to some having 3 different ways to get from A to B is the quintessential feature of Stellaris (just like for some having a physical disc that you can scratch and turn is the quintessence of music) and who am I to deny them that. But likewise they shouldn't deny the rest of us having the game move forward 1,5+ years after release
 

Obak

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Again with the hyperbole. It's not like they are cutting out 2/3rds of the game. Not even close

Also this happens in real life all the time. No more support for VHS, Casettes, CD's...soon no more DVDs..... In fact just a few months ago in my country they DID turn of all channels unless you switched to a new system, because the old one was outdated and unable to support future technologies. It's called progress.

Of course people are always free to keep the old stuff and enjoy it, but most decide not to, because usually there's a good reason for the change. But apparently to some having 3 different ways to get from A to B is the quintessential feature of Stellaris (just like for some having a physical disc that you can scratch and turn is the quintessence of music) and who am I to deny them that. But likewise they shouldn't deny the rest of us having the game move forward 1,5+ years after release
For you it might be a hyperbole, but not for me. That one selling point was what made Stellaris stand out from all other space 4x multiplayer grand strategy games, that made me invest €40 of my hard earned money and what got my hopes up for a game that dared to be something difrent
This is not progress, no matter how many times that line is fed to us, for many of us know and have played 4x games for decades, we know where this road leads.
 

Person012345

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If your problem is with people holding opinions and bleiefs contrary to your own, maybe you should take a step back.
I've tried, but I can't understand what your point is. My "problem", though I use that word lightly, is with people making stupid claims that they cannot support. There are many people, right in this thread, who I haven't argued with who hold opinions different to my own. I've only argued with the person who is just whining about things that he claims will happen when actually, he has no idea. I actually posed the question "how do you know this" to someone prior, I've actually addressed 2 people who are doing this, but a mod deleted it because apparently swear words are considered NSFW here now. People I haven't argued with are those who are dissapointed that FTL methods are being removed, people who don't like the idea of the change, people even who overall don't believe that this is the direction they want to go in. People I have argued with are doomsayers who cry that this spells the end of the game because it's pointless, won't fix anything, there are so many better options and wah wah wah, when they have no way of knowing any of these things. I am against BS.
 

Hawklaser

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I appreciate the change in tone and I can see where you are coming from as well, but I do not think the change is quite as dramatical as turning the game into a TD or a rail shooter. There's still a lot of ways to circumvent the restrictions of hyperlanes (natural wormholes, gates, an option to make the hyperlane network a semi-warp network).

You would be surprised at how much changing what are considered core features to a game/franchise by players can backfire. Take the Front Mission franchise for example, they went from mecha based tactical strategy RPG's to an Armored Core knock-off with the last in the installment. People who enjoyed the series enjoyed it for not only the mecha theme, but also the tactical strategy to it as well. This is part of why the loss of FTL types is a deal breaker for a number of people. The extra movement types increased and added to the space thematic, the lack of defined chokepoints added to the space thematic, the inability to rely on a single fortified front added to the space thematic. Unit and Civ customization while nice, didn't add anywhere as much to the space thematic. While all the other changes may indeed make the game into a better grand strategy/4x game, it is also loosing a lot of what made the game feel like it was actually taking place in space. You can put a space skin over it all you want with a starry background and ships, but if it doesn't feel like its actually taking place in space, it breaks the space immersion some people were looking for, and for others all it takes is a starry background and ships for it to be considered a "space game"


That said, the "static wars" are actually something I am really looking forward to, because I found the spammy whack-a-mole of warp and wormholes to be insanely annoying. Years of war spent doing nothing but chasing the main fleet around and swatting constructors and stragglers.
I can see why this was fun in some cases (e.g. fighting guerilla wars), but ultimately I think this will be balanced out by all the features that are made possible by the change (space "terrain", viable defensive structures, ambushes etc)

While you may find the whack-a-mole nature of the current version of the game annoying, there are also those of us looking for more than drab and predictable nature of a stuff and fortify the chokepoint meta. Which is very likely going to be the new dominant meta, thanks to the move to hyperlanes only and the new stronger starforts. We get that not every chokepoint can be fortified, but the problem is you can look at the map and usually identify that a large area can be controlled by 2-3 points pretty quickly. And the Chokepoint meta, also damages the feeling of playing a Space based game, as we are dealing with space which is pretty much wide open.

The biggest problem, is that every other change mentioned so far would also work with all the FTL types in the game, which would also maintain the feeling of playing a space game. Yes it would take the players being more flexible and thinking outside the box a little(IE you don't chase the mole to whack it, you find a way to get the mole to come to you). Yes it would take a bit more work and creativity on the developers end. But it also doesn't take away the space feel of the game and turn it into another generic and forgettable grand strategy/4x game at the same time.
 

Kappenloch

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But likewise they shouldn't deny the rest of us having the game move forward 1,5+ years after release

Oh dear, you seem to be very, very confused so allow me to set you straight. You were NEVER denied the ability to play hyperlane-only games, that option was in the game right from the very start. What is being changed is the ability to play with anything EXCEPT hyperlanes which was previously an option, but is being abruptly ripped out of a fully-mature game which many people bought ONLY because the option to play with free-movement was loudly and clearly advertised. That's certainly the only reason I bought it.

So you really had it backwards, the only ones being DENIED are those who prefer free movement over space-railroad-tracks, they'll be denied the option to play Stellaris in a way that they enjoy where previously they had that option. Hope that clears up your confusion.

Also that whole "just play 1.8.3 forever" line is an absolutely terrible solution. How would you like it if the devs suddenly changed core features of the game in a way that you hate so much it makes it totally unplayable for you, and then hordes of smug white-knights just tell you to forget about patches for bugs, mod updates or ANY new mods and just play 1.8.3. forever? I'm not talking hypothetically either, if they can do it with free movement, they can easily do it in the next dev diary with one or MORE of your most important defining core features too. And you know what, they wont give a damn about what you say either.

Its a very slippery slope to start doing this sort of thing with fully-mature released games that people have already paid for in good faith.
 

Boygor

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Yes, you figured it all out. Its all just a conspiracy to piss off their fanbase. Congratulations.

How about you actually read my posts next time.

Oh I read your post... You basically said you use hyperlanes for a bit then mid/endgame all the "strategic" work invested in choke points etc just goes out the window (lol).
 

Boygor

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I'm honestly surprised at the amount of people claiming they only bought the game because of the 3 FLT types. I only played Warp because it was easiest, sometimes Wormhole, but i can say the change isn't a big deal for me, especially if it brings the changes to combat i'm hoping for (more strategy, less doomstacks).

Have you ever played another 4x game in the last 10+ years? If you have then you'll realise the FTL restriction isn't going to fix/revolutionise anything to do with combat. I swear to goodness that folk in this forum have been living under a rock :)

There are loads of games that already do what Stellaris is touting as "radical improvements". Go check them out and you've essentially seen next years content.
 

LeanneKaos

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So, I've just been playing a bit of Endless Space 2 in the free weekend. And guess what? Hyperlanes. Every space 4x has them. Stellaris was the only one with real spacy feeling FTLs; warp and wormholes. Just axe hyperlanes and spend your time on making the other two FTLs more fun.

Some of the older ones (Distant Worlds, MOO1 & 2, probably a few others I can't think of) don't. But other than Sword of the Stars, even the games that didn't have hyperlane still had only one default FTL.

Didn't Wiz say there will be a slider how many hyperlanes spawn? Also with the gates and wormholes i think it won't be possible to completely turtle.

The way they've described gates as working largely supports turtling IMO (outside of a few fringe flanking scenarios, they're largely going to be about faster movement in your own territory, which makes it easier to defend.)

I'm honestly surprised at the amount of people claiming they only bought the game because of the 3 FLT types. I only played Warp because it was easiest, sometimes Wormhole, but i can say the change isn't a big deal for me, especially if it brings the changes to combat i'm hoping for (more strategy, less doomstacks).

On it's own, this change wouldn't result in less doomstacks; I'd even argue that it would result in even more reliance on them if it wasn't coming with other additional changes on top of it. And there's only one change I can think of that would both mitigate doomstacks and *require* hyperlanes, but it's one I'm hoping they don't go for: limiting lane traffic.
 

Balewulf

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Having been out of the loop and not hearing about the ftl changes till today, I'm extraordinarily disappointed that they are going back on their decision to have 3 base ftl types. At this point I'm actively regretting my purchase of Stellaris as I hate hyperlanes.
 
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