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Stellaris Dev Diary #92: FTL Rework and Galactic Terrain

Hello everyone and welcome to another Stellaris development diary. Today's dev diary is about Faster than Light travel in the Cherryh update, and it's likely to be a controversial one. When discussing, please remember to keep things civil, and I would kindly ask that you read the entire dev diary before rushing to post, as it's going to cover some of the questions and concerns we expect to see from the playerbase. Also, as posted last week, all of these changes are currently far away, and we cannot give more details on ETAs or the exact nature of the Cherryh update than we already have. Thank you!

FTL Rework
The single biggest design issue we have had to tackle in the Stellaris team since release is the asymmetrical FTL. While it's a cool and interesting idea on paper, the honest truth is that the feature just does not fit well into the game in practice, and blocks numerous improvements on a myriad of other features such as warfare and exploration, as well as solutions to fundamental design problems like the weakness of static defenses. After a lot of debate among the designers, we finally decided that if we were ever going to be able to tackle these issues and turn Stellaris into a game with truly engrossing and interesting warfare, we would have to bite the bullet and take a controversial decision: Consolidating FTL from the current three types down into a primarily hyperlane-based game, with more advanced forms of FTL unlocked through technology.

However, as I have said on the previous occasions when discussing this issue, one thing we would never consider doing is just slashing FTL types from the game without adding in something else to compensate their loss. That is what most of this dev diary is going to be about. However, before continuing with the details on the additions and changes we're making to FTL, I want to cover a couple of the questions I expect will arise from this:

Why are you removing FTL choices instead of building on them?
A lot of people have asked this question when we have brought up consolidating FTL types before, suggesting that problems such as static defenses can be solved by just adding more mechanics to handle each special case. I think the problem with this is best illustrated with defense stations and FTL inhibitors. One of the aims of the Starbase system is to give empires the ability to 'lock down' their borders, building fortresses that enemy fleets cannot simply skip past to strike at their core worlds, instead of having to create static defenses in every single valuable system.

With hyperlanes, this is a pretty simple affair: As hyperlanes create natural choke points, the only thing a hyperlane-stopping FTL inhibitor needs to do is to prevent enemy fleets from leaving the system once they enter it. The fleet can enter, it can retreat (via emergency FTL) and it can bring down the source of the FTL inhibitor (which might be a Starbase or even a planet) to be able to continue. This is quite easy to understand, both in terms of which system you need to defend to lock down your borders, and how it works when you are on the offensive.

Now let's add Warp to the mix. In this case, the single-system FTL inhibitor is useless because Warp fleets can just go over it, so we'll invent another mechanic: A warp interdiction bubble, stretching a certain distance around the system, that pull in any hostile Warp fleets traveling there to the system containing the FTL inhibitor, and force them to battle it or retreat. This is immediately a lot more messy: First of all, this bubble can't possibly affect Hyperlane fleets, because it could potentially pull them dozens of jumps away from their current location. This means that when fortifying your borders, you now need to not just make sure that every important chokepoint is covered, but also that your entire border is covered in warp interdiction bubbles.

But there's more: Add Wormholes as well, and you now have an FTL type where not only the 'bubble' type interdictor doesn't make intuitive sense (because Wormhole fleets make point-to-point jumps rather than traveling over the map) but if said interdictor works to pull Wormhole fleets out of position regardless of what makes intuitive sense, you end up with the same probem as with hyperlanes, where the fleet can get pulled out of range of its wormhole network and end up stranded even if it brings down the defenses. This means you pretty much have to invent a third type of interdiction type for Wormhole on top of what is already an overengineered and hard to understand system.

Finally, add the problem of displaying all these different types of inhibitors and interdictors on the map, in a way that the player can even remotely start to understand, and you end up with nothing short of a complete mess, where it's far better to just have static defenses protecting single valuable systems... and so we come full circle.

This is the fundamental problem that we have been grappling with when it comes to asymmetrical FTL: What works in a game such as Sword of the Stars, with its turn-based gameplay, small maps of usually no more than 3-6 empires, and 1-on-1 wars breaks down completely in a Stellaris game with real-time gameplay and wars potentially containing a dozen actors, all with their own form of FTL. The complexity collapses into what is for the player just a mess of fleets appearing and disappearing with no discernible logic to them.

Why Hyperlanes?
When discussing this, we essentially boiled down the consolidation into three possibilities: Hyperlanes only, Warp-only, and Warp+Hyperlanes. Wormhole is simply too different a FTL type to ever really work with the others, and not intuitive enough to work as the sole starting FTL for everyone playing the game. Keeping both Warp and Hyperlanes would be an improvement, but would still keep many of the issues we currently have in regards to user experience and fleet coordination. Warp-only was considered as an alternative, but ultimately Hyperlanes won out because of the possibilities it opens up for galactic geography, static defenses and enhancements to exploration.

Here are the some of the possibilities that consolidation of FTL into Hyperlanes creates for Stellaris:
  • Unified distance, sensor and border systems that make sense for everyone (for example, cost of claiming a system not being based on euclidean distance but rather the actual distance for ships to travel there)
  • Galactic 'geography', systems that are strategically and tactically important due to location and 'terrain' (more on this below) rather than just resources
  • More possibilities for galaxy generation and exploration (for example, entire regions of space accessible only through a wormhole or a single guarded hyperlane, containing special locations and events to discover)
  • Better performance through caching and unified code (Wormhole FTL in particular is a massive resource hog in the late game)
  • Warfare with a distinct sense of 'theatres', advancing/retreating fronts and border skirmishes (more on this in future dev diaries)
Are all new forms of FTL free patch content?
Yes. Naturally we're not going to charge for any form of content meant to replace the loss of old FTL types.

Hyperlane and Sublight Travel
As mentioned, in the Cherryh update. all empires will now start the game with Hyperlanes as their only mode of FTL. By default, hyperlane generation is going to be changed to create more 'islands' and 'choke points', to make for more interesting galactic geography. However, as we know some players do not enjoy the idea of constricted space, we are going to add a slider that controls the general frequency and connectivity of hyperlanes. Turning this up will create a more connected galaxy and make it harder to protect all your systems with static defenses, for players who prefer something closer to the current game's Warp-style movement.

Sublight travel is also being changed somewhat, in the sense that you need to actually travel to the entry point to a particular hyperlane (the arrow inside a system) to enter it, rather than being able to enter any hyperlane from any point outside's a system's gravity well. This means that fleets will move in a more predictable fashion, and interdictions will frequently happen inside systems instead of nearly always being at the edge of them, in particular allowing for fleets to 'guard' important hyperlane entry/exit points. To compensate for the need to move across systems, sublight travel has been sped up, especially with more advanced forms of thrusters.
2017_11_02_2.png


FTL Sensors
Along with the change to FTL, we are also changing the way sensors work. Instead of simply being a circle radiating an arbitrary distance from a ship, station or planet, each level of sensors can now see a certain distance in FTL connections. For example, a ship with level 1 sensors (Radar) will only give sensor coverage of the same system that it is currently in, while a ship with level 2 (Gravitic) sensors will give sensor coverage of that system and all systems connected to it through a Hyperlane or explored Wormhole (more on that below), a ship with level 3 sensors will be able to see systems connected to those systems, and so on. Sensor coverage can be 'blocked' by certain galactic features (more on that below), which will also block propagation into further connected systems. We are currently discussing the implementation of sensor blockers as a potential Starbase component.
2017_11_02_1.png


Wormholes
While Wormhole as a full-fledged FTL type is gone, Wormholes are not. Instead they have been changed into a natural formation that can be encountered while exploring the galaxy. Wormholes come in pairs, essentially functioning as very long hyperlanes that can potentially take a ship across the entire galaxy near-instantly. Natural Wormholes are unstable, and when first encountered, you will not be able to explore them. To explore a Wormhole, you need the Wormhole Stabilization technology, after which a science ship can be sent to stabilize and chart the Wormhole to find out what lies on the other side. If you're lucky, this may be unclaimed space full of valuable systems, but it could just as well be a Devouring Swarm eager to come over for dinner. There is a slider on game setup that controls the frequency of wormhole pairs in the galaxy.
2017_11_02_4.png


Gateways
Gateways is an advanced form of FTL most closely resembling the Wormhole FTL in the live version of the game. While exploring the galaxy, you can find abandoned Gateways that were once part of a massive, galaxy-spanning network. These Gateways are disabled and unusable, but with the Gateway Reactivation mid-game technology and a hefty investment of minerals, they can be restored to working order. Like Wormholes, Gateways allow for near-instant travel to other Gateways, but the difference is that any activated Gateway can be used to travel to any other activated Gateway, and late-game technology allows for the construction of more Gateways to expand the network. Also unlike Wormholes, which cannot be 'closed', Gateways also have the advantage of allowing any empire controlling the system they're in to control who goes through said Gateway - hostile empires and empires to whom you have closed your borders will not be able to use 'your' Gateways to just appear inside of your systems.

When the first Gateway is re-activated, another random Gateway will also be re-activated along with it, so that there is never a situation where you just have a single active Gateway going nowhere. There is a slider on game setup that controls the frequency of abandoned gateways in the galaxy.
2017_11_02_8.png


Jump Drives
Jump Drives and Psi Jump Drives have been changed, and is now an advanced form of FTL that mixes Hyperdrive with some functionality from the old Warp FTL. They allow for a ship to travel normally and very quickly along hyperlanes, but also come equipped with a tactical 'jump' functionality that allows a fleet to make a point-to-point jump ignoring the normal hyperlane limitations. This is done with a special fleet order where you select a target system for the jump (within a certain pre-defined range, with Psi Jump Drives having longer range than regular Jump Drives), after which the fleet charges up its jump drive and creates a temporary wormhole leading to the system. After the fleet makes its 'jump', the Jump Drive will need to recharge, with a significant cooldown before it can be used again, and also applies a debuff to the fleet that reduces its combat effectiveness while the cooldown is in effect. This allows for fleets with Jump Drives to ignore the usual FTL restrictions and skip straight past enemy fleets and stations, but at the cost of leaving themselves vulnerable and potentially stranded for a time afterwards. This design is highly experimental, and may change during the development of Cherryh, but we wanted Jump Drives to not just be 'Hyperdrive IV' but rather to unlock new tactical and strategic possibilities for warfare.

Galactic Terrain
With the switch to Hyperlanes and the creation of strategically important systems and chokepoints, we've also decided to implement something we had always thought was a really interesting idea, but which made little sense without such chokepoints: Galactic Terrain. Specifically, systems with environmental effects and hazards that have profound tactical and strategic effects on ships and empires. This is still something we are in the middle of testing and prototyping, but so far we have created the following forms of Galactic Terrain:
Nebulas block all sensor coverage originating from other systems, meaning that it's impossible for an empire to see what ships and stations are inside a system in a nebula without having a ship or station stationed there, allowing empires to hide their fleets and set up ambushes.
Pulsars interfere with deflector technology, nullifying all ship and station shields in a system with a Pulsar.
Neutron Stars interfere with navigation and ship systems, significantly slowing down sublight travel in a system with a Neutron Star.
Black Holes interfere with FTL, increasing the time it takes for a fleet to charge its emergency FTL and making it more difficult to ships to individually disengage from combat (more on this in a later dev diary).

The above is just a first iteration, and it's something we're likely to tweak and build on more for both the Cherryh update and other updates beyond it, so stay tuned for more information on this.
2017_11_02_3.png

2017_11_02_5.png


That's all for today! I will finish this dev diary by saying that we do not expect everyone to be happy with these changes, but we truly believe that they are necessary to give Stellaris truly great warfare, and that we think you will find the game better for it once you get a chance to try them. We will be doing a Design Corner feature on today's Extraterrestial Thursday stream, where me and Game Designer Daniel Moregård (grekulf) will be discussing the changes, fielding questions and showing off some gameplay in the internal development build. If you want a look at some of these changes in a live game environment, be sure to tune to the Paradox Interactive twitch channel at 4pm CET.

Next week, we're going to talk about war and peace, including the complete rework of the current wargoal system that was made possible by the changes to FTL and system control discussed in this and last week's dev diary. See you then!
 
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Obak

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Ck2 is a great game, but it is not stellaris, space is not constrained by fixed movement. Sure, everyone that loves turteling and star lanes will have a gas, but the rest, not so much.
And this is the geist of this '"circle jerk", the "few" that dont like turteling, that likes the difret challenges of using and fughting difret FTLs are firced into one playstyle, this is esdentially dumbing the game down and forcing everyone into a mandatory early game strategy.
 

Owlfriend

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You clicked "Disagree" on my post but reading your reply you seem to not even grasp why they are changing the systems. Solving doomstacks is a multi step process and the first step is having a level playing field in terms of star ship movement. Having different forms of FTL travel is interesting but is counterproductive for gameplay and it makes no sense as to why if all 3 methods exist, can't any civ make use of any method they have researched. Having restricted FTL movement based on initial choice was an artificial and immersion breaking invisible wall for the sake of gameplay.

The new system is more elegant, more balanced and opens up new strategic options.

I think the "disagree" Clickers (like myself), know very well what the changes mean. Because we have already played Games with Hyperlanes and know how limiting that concept is. The initial methods of FTL were meant to be different, with different strengths and weaknesses. And to those Hyperlane Players complaining about WH and Warp in the same Game.... that is what happens, when your method of moving is inferior ;) And now we get that inferior method for all Empires, because Reasons :rolleyes:

An Empire sticking to a method of FTL it knows is not immersion breaking, all methods were intended to be equally useful, so why change the whole infrastructure and Logistic of an interstellar empire to replace one working method with another? And not all Empires are open to new ideas, once they have a method that works. Plus once the Jumpdrive comes around...

The new system is more boring, more making everything the same, and limits strategic options.

Edit: I post that here, because of Myth's post below me. I played both WH and Warp (and even tried Hyperlanes...). So no, I am not complaining because they remove WH's. I am complaining because I am restricted to Hyperlanes!
 
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-Myth-

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Space is not constrained but traveling via normal means in normal space will get you nowhere. Sol to Alpha Centauri is 4.367 light years or 41.32 trillion km. A spaceship traveling at 10%c (that is to say, at 30,000 km/s which is already obscenenely fast for a physical object) will take 43 years to get from one system to the other. At this speed (which is a complete snail's pace if one aims to traverse the galaxy), an impact with a piece of rock that weighs 1 kg will release energy equal to a 7.17 kiloton explosion. Little Boy was 15 kilotons.

So physically flying via regular propulsion is a fool's errand and you are left with whatever FTL method the devs seem feasible but also that fits the gameplay mechanics.

And all of you crying about "muh diversity of FTL engines" are really crying about wormholes. I don't think there's anyone here that is masochistic enough to have regularly used warp drives.
 

Peko?

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I don't think there's anyone here that is masochistic enough to have regularly used warp drives.
I do, doesn't even require any masochism.
 

Vohnkar

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Very long time lurker that is deciding to add to this interminable thread.

I´m sad about the changes because of the direction the game is taking even more than about losing two FTL methods. Paradox games have usually been full of design mechanics all over the place that have made games nearly impossible to balance. The IA couldn´t use half the options the player has because it doesn´t know how, but the developers kept putting more things into the game in the form of patches and DLC. And I liked it to be that way. Yes, sometimes the games nearly broke under all the weight of options, but it was the way the had been since the begining. Paradox tried to do a lot of things with their games. Some did work, some did not, but they kept trying.

This change for me marks a change of course for the game, and even for the company, though I have not been following HOI or EU development as I´ve been Stellaris. Their worry for balance or making a more “rounded” game has led the team to strip the game of parts of what made it unique. Will the new game that emerges be bad? Probably not, but it will be losing a lot in the process, at least for me. I don´t like computer games to be as neat as board games. They have to try new things and get somewhat messy, try to work as complex systems with emergent gameplay and not through simple rules that are easy to grasp. All this hyperlane and chokepoints talk sounds to an oversimplification to me, and I don´t like it. Space terrain, undestructable fortresses, sun-only orbiting stations, all sounds like a step back, incredibly gamey decisions with little in-game world justification.

Stellaris 2.0 may be a good game, but it will not be the game I decided to buy. I hope I´ll be able to come to terms with it and enjoy it for what it is, but that doesn´t mean I´m not very dissapointed with @Wiz for the way the game is going. I would probably not have bought a Stellaris 2.0, at least not as a full price game.

For the moment it has make me look around and at last buy Distant Worlds to see if it can become a Stellaris substitute :(
 

bnkr

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Hi Guys
I'm new to this forum.
I truely understand and appreciate the decision and effort of the dev team. I believe this patch will absolutely make stellaris gameplay better. Sometimes I feel annoyed when the Awaken Empire or other opponents' fleet just easily cross the border and hit the planet deep in my heartland, or just run away to nowhere when I decided to chase them. Maybe everyone using hyperlane is a solid solution of this problem.
But here's what I was thinking. As a sci-fi fun, I'm really fond of this game because I can write my own sci-fi story in stellaris galaxy! And It's kind of "real". So many possibilities would happen in this game. So think about the possible space war/communication with alien species or with human from other planet after interstellar colonisation in "the future of real world" -- It's a brand new war type! "Remember, the enemy's gate is down."(Ender's Game). Because of FTL method (even if the future only involves sublight ships), the space is widely open and every single ship can go anywhere from any angle. So maybe we CAN'T protect anything except a planet(if it is not only a city on the planet). We can hardly protect a solar system from invasion, not to speak of blocking enemy from a system to another by building some "starbase" on the route. Because there is no route!
So new version of stellaris will likely be more fun to play with, but I think the previous(or nowadays) version is a better galaxy simlulator, which is also important(or even more important) for me.
 
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zordrail

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. I don't think there's anyone here that is masochistic enough to have regularly used warp drives.
I do, exclusively. I tried wormhole and hyperlane but i really prefer the freedom of warp drive. I do not, however, limit the ai to only warp. I love the challenge of taking on empires with a different ftl than mine.

This update sucks.

To those of you who exclusively use hyperdrive, well done.

But stop with the

"nobody uses warp,anyway"

or

"You will just have to stay on this patch and loose all future support that you paid for in good faith."

or

"You'll just have to start using hyperdrive like the rest of us"

It doesn't wash, it doesn't help.

I originally started posted on this thread around page 80 and continued until past 120.

I'm really disappointed that i see the same arguments from the hyperdrive crowd. I'm really disappointed to see that there are still people attempting to completely invalidate another's feelings and another's concerns.

And honestly, shame on Paradox for allowing this thread to continue.
 

Mr. Capiatlist

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A long-due periodic reminder for everyone to keep things from getting personal, to treat both other users and the devs with respect, and to try to keep things PG when posting, as this is intended to be a family-friendly environment.
 

Boygor

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You clicked "Disagree" on my post but reading your reply you seem to not even grasp why they are changing the systems. Solving doomstacks is a multi step process and the first step is having a level playing field in terms of star ship movement. Having different forms of FTL travel is interesting but is counterproductive for gameplay and it makes no sense as to why if all 3 methods exist, can't any civ make use of any method they have researched. Having restricted FTL movement based on initial choice was an artificial and immersion breaking invisible wall for the sake of gameplay.

The new system is more elegant, more balanced and opens up new strategic options.

I don't know how to respond to this post to be honest. Are you being serious or are you some kind of sapient PSA?
 

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I generally agree with the changes being made and hope that Stellaris continues to be improved in the future.

On the other hand, like a lot of other people here, I am a bit miffed at such fundamental changes being made post-release... and yet, they're necessarily and inevitable.

Stellaris feels less like a game I bought at launch, and more like a game I bought during some sort of Early Access period, while things continue to be added and fundamental aspects of the game continue to be ironed out... and I'm not sure how I feel about that. The features in Utopia (and in recent patches) feel like they should be part of the stock game at launch, and the game has many other aspects that demand improvement and fleshing out (e.g. diplomacy). I don't doubt that this will happen, but we obviously can't know beforehand what the nature of those changes will be, leaving consumers in an uncomfortable situation where they're buying the game as-is, at full price, even though a lot of its value is in its potential and future development. Consequently, arguments like this are bound to happen, where necessary changes are made but the nature of those changes is not predictable from the players' perspective.

I would wager that if people expected Stellaris to stay the same in terms of content as it was on day one of release, far fewer would have purchased it. So, where does that leave us? It leaves us banking on future changes, and hoping they'll be sufficient and that we'll like them. This is not particularly normal for a game studio, even if it is for Paradox specifically... at least not to this degree.
 

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The community isn't dying down over this, they just realise (like from what I just experienced very recently) that they aren't being listened to or just shushed. We have come to realise that for whatever reason the changes are going to happen regardless of our positions, thoughts or feelings. Had these changes been made prior to release I could understand the logic and even respect the decision to try and normalise some of the core mechanics, but it's not prior to release, its post release and there is now a fully matured and diverse community around this game that don't all agree with the removal / rewrite of core mechanics and some of the reasons for it. To be honest, let look beyond the FTL changes for a second, the games mechanics are getting a RADICALLY overhaul and shifting in a way that makes it considerably different to what it was before! In fact even the developers (can I say this????) have stated that the changes they are making would normally only appear in a Stellaris 2 and have even admitted they realised it would divide the community.

So why is it such a surprise some of us aren't happy with it? I mean I've put in over 250 hours of time into this game because of what it was. Now I feel like what I will be playing (which I probably won't do after whats just happened) isn't the same, the core mechanics will change considerably away from what I know and enjoyed (into something I have played so many times before). It is no different to going to KFC and finding that the new secret recipe tastes awful because it now includes 5x as much salt, would you eat it anyway because the Colonel says its still finger licking good? No of course not, it is down to personal taste at the end of the day. But if KFC did a taste survey and realised that they suddenly found 25% of their tasters said the product wasn't as good as before, or said that the introduction of 5x as much salt wasn't something they wanted (maybe they are concerned over salt intake). Do you think they would just ignore that and keep that new recipe? The real difference here is that we know KFC would do some market research before making such a radical change to see the likelihood of acceptance.

Some people that purchased this game aren't happy, just because they aren't posting anymore doesn't mean they have seen the light and suddenly AGREE with the changes, it more likely means they have accepted Stellaris 1.0 for them is now dead and gone looking for a new game or they have decided to try and do something about it and looked into the modding options to bring the new Stellaris 2.0 back inline with what they like (nothing wrong with either to be fair).

What really surprises me the most is that there hasn't been even an acknowledgement by the development or community managers that there are disagreements. Instead its like "nothing to see here just move on". Such attitudes is pretty damning and disrespectful towards the countless thousands that have purchased the game as it was and feel the need to speak out against the changes to what it will become.
 

~Robbie

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I would wager that if people expected Stellaris to stay the same in terms of content as it was on day one of release, far fewer would have purchased it. So, where does that leave us? It leaves us banking on future changes, and hoping they'll be sufficient and that we'll like them. This is not particularly normal for a game studio, even if it is for Paradox specifically... at least not to this degree.

I don't think it's reasonable to conflate the game changing over time, with actual removal of a core mechanic and all associated content. This isn't something that's being changed or updated, this is something being straight-up removed from the game. A feature that, for many people, was one of their favorite aspects of the game, or even the reason they purchased it in the first place.

I guess it just feels like a little bit of a bait and switch when I purchase a game, fall in love with a certain core feature of the game, and then have that feature completely removed from the game. I didn't buy this game to play a hyperlane-only game, I bought it because it was Stellaris. The varied FTL types are one of if not my most beloved feature of the game and it really sucks to be told I won't be able to use them anymore if I want to keep my game up to date.

Again I say to people ITT: Imagine if one of your very favorite parts of the game was removed wholesale, and how disappointing that would be. I understand that this is not the case for everybody with FTL types, but it certainly is for a lot of us.
 

NeverUsedID

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I don't like this kind of ftl, because it always feels a little to gamey to me (I always play wormholedrive). But i played Sins of a Solar empire and the new mechanic has a lot of it. Even the "jumpdrive" is borrowed from SoaSe. The Vasari had a ship which could jump in this way and had a long cool down to jump back. As SoaSe was a hell of a fun game, I will wait an see what this will make out of Stellaris.

Btw.: Having old Gateways there, but don't have the possibility to build them later on, is not the kind of freedom i would like to have in such a game. "Yes, Your empire can last millions of years, but you will never have the possibility to build Gateways, because of the cause".
 
Last edited:

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We understand that this change is upsetting to some, and we didn't expect anything else. Knowing how big of a change this will be for the game, and for some players, we still decided to go through with it. This was not something done on a whim, but rather after careful consideration and many many months of thinking. We truly believe that in order to make the game better in the terms of warfare and exploration, and more, this was a necessary bullet to bite.

Like we talked about on the Designers' Corner stream, this change opens up so many possibilities for us. In the future we hope to see reap the benefits of this change, especially with a much more interesting galaxy map. As an example, this allows us to do things like "islands" full of interesting star systems, only accessible through a gateway or natural wormhole. An understandable short-term loss (for some players) is something we're willing to risk in order to give you a better experience in the long-term.

To Boldly Go, is the best step forward!

This meets all these requirements and preserves the 3 FTL methods: Modifications in FTL methods to adapt them to a system with geography

I really liked the new system that allows you to create geography (galactography) in space, opening up the possibility of creating frontier defenses, I loved the introduction of natural wormholes and gateways, but I did not like the removal of two FTL methods.

The idea here is to suggest a system that encompasses both old and new FTL methods, but in a way that preserves the idea of geography in space while maintaining the flavor of several FTL.

Hyperdrive:
- Very fast travel.
- Short time to activate.
- Restricted to hyperlanes
- Strong ships.
- Mutually exclusive with warpdrive.
--> Used to general warfare.

Instant-Wormhole:
- Instant travel.
- Very long activation time.
- Short range.
- It does not affect the strength of the ships.
- Stations cost fleet capacity.
- Any ship can use.
- After wormholes stabilization technology is researched, empires gain the ability to destabilize wormholes, making instant wormholes incapable of being used in invasions.
--> Used to defense.

Warpdrive:
- Very slow travel.
- Long time to activate.
- Long range.
- Very weak ships.
- They can not go through dust clouds.
- Mutually exclusive with hyperdrive.
--> Used to exploration, scouting, construction, piracy and raids.

Infinity Improbability Generator (emergency FTL):
- Medium travel duration.
- Average time to activate.
- Very long range.
- It does not affect the strength of the ships.
- Any FTL ship can use.
- Always takes the fleet to a designated starbase.
- Possible damage and loss of ships.
--> Used to escape.

Natural Wormhole:
- Instant travel.
- No actvation time.
- Unlimited range.
- It does not affect the strength of the ships.
- Any ship can use.
- Needs to be stabilized.
--> Use depends on galactography.

Gateway:
- Instant travel.
- No actvation time.
- Unlimited range.
- It does not affect the strength of the ships.
- Any ship can use.
--> Used for strategic movement.

Jumpdrive:
- Instant travel.
- Average activation time and long cooldown.
- Long range.
- Strong ships, but with momentary fragility on arrival at the destination.
- May attract interdimensional invaders.
--> Used to be an a***ole. :rolleyes:

Essentially, hyperdrives are much smaller and more efficient than warpdrives, so ships have much more room for other systems, making them much stronger. Thus, a navy made entirely of ships with warpdrives would be much weaker than one with hyperdrives. And since warpships do not leave normal space, they are susceptible to collisions, so that initially they are unable to cross dust clouds. That is, in direct combat, hyper wins warp, so building a warp-based naval force would be suicide against an empire with a hyper-based one, which causes most of a war to occur naturally along the hyperlanes.

Sensors could still be based on hyperlanes, having warpdrive or instant-wormhole does not allows to violate this. Then, warpdrive ships can serve as scouts, entering enemy territory and gaining information from the inner region.

Instant-Wormholes have very short range due to the difficulty of creating the exit light-years away. They are of limited use, because they consume fleet capacity and, after developing the wormholes stabilization technology, it is possible to deny the creation of them in enemy territory. However it is possible to create ships without hyperdrive/warpdrive, freeing up even more space for other systems, being possible to create empires completely defensive with a powerful fleet.

In this system is possible the existence of inaccessible regions in the beginning, because they have restricted paths in relation to hyperlanes, are out of reach of wormholes and are in a region of clouds of dust.

Emergency FTL has always been a bit uncomfortable, the way it works does not make sense, the fleets simply disappear, the same is true for when a border is suddenly closed. To solve this we can introduce a new FTL, the Infinite Improbability Generator (I should have proposed this before the Adams version :p), which would only serve for ships escaping to allied territory, being useless for exploration or invasion. It could already be embedded in every FTL vessel.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The technological evolution of hyperdrives is:

-> Hyperdrive I
-> Hyperdrive II (faster)
-> Hyperdrive III (even faster)
-> Jumpdrive (has the basic function of a hyperdrive III, but can access an extra dimension and jump to other systems)

The technological evolution of warpdrives is:

-> Warpdrive I
-> Warpdrive II (more range)
-> Warpdrive III (able to cross dust clouds with hypershields and neutronium armor, but suffering damage)
-> Intergalactic-Warpdrive (only works for intergalactic travel and is restricted to Pretoryn)

The technological evolution of wormholes is:

-> Instant-Wormhole
-> Wormholes Stabilization (allows to cross natural wormholes and inhibit the artificial ones)
-> Improved Wormhole Generation (more range)
and/or
-> Gateways

The technological evolution of infinity improbability generator is:

-> Infinity Improbability Generator I (damage and possible lost of ships, can only be actived in emergencies)
-> Infinity Improbability Generator II (damage to ships, can be actived any time)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Each empire can choose the initial FTL system, according to personality and strategy, isolationists/pacifists choose wormhole, expansionists/conquerors choose hyperdrives, and explorers choose warpdrive. However, all other systems can be researched.
 

Purussaurus

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Removing the three FTL methods from Stellaris is like removing megastructures from Utopia. Does not make sense.
 

JesterHell

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Again, I will point out that if this is SUCH a big life-ending deal to you, paradox does leave open the option to remain on the current patch. I'm not saying this is ideal or fine btw, I'm just reminding you that you needn't stop playing the game entirely and have your money "wasted".

You don't need to remind me of something I already know, the thing is that it "leaves a bitter taste in my mouth" so to speak, even though I can play the current version forever just knowing the changes they intend to make puts me off playing let alone once those changes have been made.
 

jazzglands

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I'm surprised by how many people consider asymmetrical FTL to be central to the identity of the game, or of thier species. Surely thier ethics and culture must be more important.

Asymmetrical FTL a neat feature, but the strategic decisions I've made because of it have not been terribly complex. I'll just be happy when all my allies' fleets can fleets can follow mine without a bunch of obnoxious micromanagement, trying to follow hyperlanes you can't see, or waiting for warp to catch up. I'm sad they couldn't make it work, but I'll welcome the changes to FTL because it really is necessary to enable the much-improved border, war, and claim systems.
 

Purussaurus

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I'm surprised by how many people consider asymmetrical FTL to be central to the identity of the game, or of thier species. Surely thier ethics and culture must be more important.

Asymmetrical FTL a neat feature, but the strategic decisions I've made because of it have not been terribly complex. I'll just be happy when all my allies' fleets can fleets can follow mine without a bunch of obnoxious micromanagement, trying to follow hyperlanes you can't see, or waiting for warp to catch up. I'm sad they couldn't make it work, but I'll welcome the changes to FTL because it really is necessary to enable the much-improved border, war, and claim systems.

See my post five comments above, there I propose a way to deploy a system of multiple FTL methods solving the problems you mentioned.
 

Obak

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  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Victoria 2
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Supreme Ruler 2020
  • Divine Wind
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Majesty 2
  • Sengoku
  • Sword of the Stars
  • Sword of the Stars II
We understand that this change is upsetting to some, and we didn't expect anything else. Knowing how big of a change this will be for the game, and for some players, we still decided to go through with it. This was not something done on a whim, but rather after careful consideration and many many months of thinking. We truly believe that in order to make the game better in the terms of warfare and exploration, and more, this was a necessary bullet to bite.

Like we talked about on the Designers' Corner stream, this change opens up so many possibilities for us. In the future we hope to see reap the benefits of this change, especially with a much more interesting galaxy map. As an example, this allows us to do things like "islands" full of interesting star systems, only accessible through a gateway or natural wormhole. An understandable short-term loss (for some players) is something we're willing to risk in order to give you a better experience in the long-term.

To Boldly Go, is the best step forward!

The island idea could have been implemented without forcing us to all use hyperlanes, simply by inserting extra-galactic systems only accesible via worm hole travle or galaxy map warp storms that prevented ftl access.
This will nowhere add to neither warfare nor exploration, as it will, as stated earlier only remove possibilities and force everyone to adopt one strategy.
 
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