• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
Status
Not open for further replies.

Stellaris Dev Diary #92: FTL Rework and Galactic Terrain

Hello everyone and welcome to another Stellaris development diary. Today's dev diary is about Faster than Light travel in the Cherryh update, and it's likely to be a controversial one. When discussing, please remember to keep things civil, and I would kindly ask that you read the entire dev diary before rushing to post, as it's going to cover some of the questions and concerns we expect to see from the playerbase. Also, as posted last week, all of these changes are currently far away, and we cannot give more details on ETAs or the exact nature of the Cherryh update than we already have. Thank you!

FTL Rework
The single biggest design issue we have had to tackle in the Stellaris team since release is the asymmetrical FTL. While it's a cool and interesting idea on paper, the honest truth is that the feature just does not fit well into the game in practice, and blocks numerous improvements on a myriad of other features such as warfare and exploration, as well as solutions to fundamental design problems like the weakness of static defenses. After a lot of debate among the designers, we finally decided that if we were ever going to be able to tackle these issues and turn Stellaris into a game with truly engrossing and interesting warfare, we would have to bite the bullet and take a controversial decision: Consolidating FTL from the current three types down into a primarily hyperlane-based game, with more advanced forms of FTL unlocked through technology.

However, as I have said on the previous occasions when discussing this issue, one thing we would never consider doing is just slashing FTL types from the game without adding in something else to compensate their loss. That is what most of this dev diary is going to be about. However, before continuing with the details on the additions and changes we're making to FTL, I want to cover a couple of the questions I expect will arise from this:

Why are you removing FTL choices instead of building on them?
A lot of people have asked this question when we have brought up consolidating FTL types before, suggesting that problems such as static defenses can be solved by just adding more mechanics to handle each special case. I think the problem with this is best illustrated with defense stations and FTL inhibitors. One of the aims of the Starbase system is to give empires the ability to 'lock down' their borders, building fortresses that enemy fleets cannot simply skip past to strike at their core worlds, instead of having to create static defenses in every single valuable system.

With hyperlanes, this is a pretty simple affair: As hyperlanes create natural choke points, the only thing a hyperlane-stopping FTL inhibitor needs to do is to prevent enemy fleets from leaving the system once they enter it. The fleet can enter, it can retreat (via emergency FTL) and it can bring down the source of the FTL inhibitor (which might be a Starbase or even a planet) to be able to continue. This is quite easy to understand, both in terms of which system you need to defend to lock down your borders, and how it works when you are on the offensive.

Now let's add Warp to the mix. In this case, the single-system FTL inhibitor is useless because Warp fleets can just go over it, so we'll invent another mechanic: A warp interdiction bubble, stretching a certain distance around the system, that pull in any hostile Warp fleets traveling there to the system containing the FTL inhibitor, and force them to battle it or retreat. This is immediately a lot more messy: First of all, this bubble can't possibly affect Hyperlane fleets, because it could potentially pull them dozens of jumps away from their current location. This means that when fortifying your borders, you now need to not just make sure that every important chokepoint is covered, but also that your entire border is covered in warp interdiction bubbles.

But there's more: Add Wormholes as well, and you now have an FTL type where not only the 'bubble' type interdictor doesn't make intuitive sense (because Wormhole fleets make point-to-point jumps rather than traveling over the map) but if said interdictor works to pull Wormhole fleets out of position regardless of what makes intuitive sense, you end up with the same probem as with hyperlanes, where the fleet can get pulled out of range of its wormhole network and end up stranded even if it brings down the defenses. This means you pretty much have to invent a third type of interdiction type for Wormhole on top of what is already an overengineered and hard to understand system.

Finally, add the problem of displaying all these different types of inhibitors and interdictors on the map, in a way that the player can even remotely start to understand, and you end up with nothing short of a complete mess, where it's far better to just have static defenses protecting single valuable systems... and so we come full circle.

This is the fundamental problem that we have been grappling with when it comes to asymmetrical FTL: What works in a game such as Sword of the Stars, with its turn-based gameplay, small maps of usually no more than 3-6 empires, and 1-on-1 wars breaks down completely in a Stellaris game with real-time gameplay and wars potentially containing a dozen actors, all with their own form of FTL. The complexity collapses into what is for the player just a mess of fleets appearing and disappearing with no discernible logic to them.

Why Hyperlanes?
When discussing this, we essentially boiled down the consolidation into three possibilities: Hyperlanes only, Warp-only, and Warp+Hyperlanes. Wormhole is simply too different a FTL type to ever really work with the others, and not intuitive enough to work as the sole starting FTL for everyone playing the game. Keeping both Warp and Hyperlanes would be an improvement, but would still keep many of the issues we currently have in regards to user experience and fleet coordination. Warp-only was considered as an alternative, but ultimately Hyperlanes won out because of the possibilities it opens up for galactic geography, static defenses and enhancements to exploration.

Here are the some of the possibilities that consolidation of FTL into Hyperlanes creates for Stellaris:
  • Unified distance, sensor and border systems that make sense for everyone (for example, cost of claiming a system not being based on euclidean distance but rather the actual distance for ships to travel there)
  • Galactic 'geography', systems that are strategically and tactically important due to location and 'terrain' (more on this below) rather than just resources
  • More possibilities for galaxy generation and exploration (for example, entire regions of space accessible only through a wormhole or a single guarded hyperlane, containing special locations and events to discover)
  • Better performance through caching and unified code (Wormhole FTL in particular is a massive resource hog in the late game)
  • Warfare with a distinct sense of 'theatres', advancing/retreating fronts and border skirmishes (more on this in future dev diaries)
Are all new forms of FTL free patch content?
Yes. Naturally we're not going to charge for any form of content meant to replace the loss of old FTL types.

Hyperlane and Sublight Travel
As mentioned, in the Cherryh update. all empires will now start the game with Hyperlanes as their only mode of FTL. By default, hyperlane generation is going to be changed to create more 'islands' and 'choke points', to make for more interesting galactic geography. However, as we know some players do not enjoy the idea of constricted space, we are going to add a slider that controls the general frequency and connectivity of hyperlanes. Turning this up will create a more connected galaxy and make it harder to protect all your systems with static defenses, for players who prefer something closer to the current game's Warp-style movement.

Sublight travel is also being changed somewhat, in the sense that you need to actually travel to the entry point to a particular hyperlane (the arrow inside a system) to enter it, rather than being able to enter any hyperlane from any point outside's a system's gravity well. This means that fleets will move in a more predictable fashion, and interdictions will frequently happen inside systems instead of nearly always being at the edge of them, in particular allowing for fleets to 'guard' important hyperlane entry/exit points. To compensate for the need to move across systems, sublight travel has been sped up, especially with more advanced forms of thrusters.
2017_11_02_2.png


FTL Sensors
Along with the change to FTL, we are also changing the way sensors work. Instead of simply being a circle radiating an arbitrary distance from a ship, station or planet, each level of sensors can now see a certain distance in FTL connections. For example, a ship with level 1 sensors (Radar) will only give sensor coverage of the same system that it is currently in, while a ship with level 2 (Gravitic) sensors will give sensor coverage of that system and all systems connected to it through a Hyperlane or explored Wormhole (more on that below), a ship with level 3 sensors will be able to see systems connected to those systems, and so on. Sensor coverage can be 'blocked' by certain galactic features (more on that below), which will also block propagation into further connected systems. We are currently discussing the implementation of sensor blockers as a potential Starbase component.
2017_11_02_1.png


Wormholes
While Wormhole as a full-fledged FTL type is gone, Wormholes are not. Instead they have been changed into a natural formation that can be encountered while exploring the galaxy. Wormholes come in pairs, essentially functioning as very long hyperlanes that can potentially take a ship across the entire galaxy near-instantly. Natural Wormholes are unstable, and when first encountered, you will not be able to explore them. To explore a Wormhole, you need the Wormhole Stabilization technology, after which a science ship can be sent to stabilize and chart the Wormhole to find out what lies on the other side. If you're lucky, this may be unclaimed space full of valuable systems, but it could just as well be a Devouring Swarm eager to come over for dinner. There is a slider on game setup that controls the frequency of wormhole pairs in the galaxy.
2017_11_02_4.png


Gateways
Gateways is an advanced form of FTL most closely resembling the Wormhole FTL in the live version of the game. While exploring the galaxy, you can find abandoned Gateways that were once part of a massive, galaxy-spanning network. These Gateways are disabled and unusable, but with the Gateway Reactivation mid-game technology and a hefty investment of minerals, they can be restored to working order. Like Wormholes, Gateways allow for near-instant travel to other Gateways, but the difference is that any activated Gateway can be used to travel to any other activated Gateway, and late-game technology allows for the construction of more Gateways to expand the network. Also unlike Wormholes, which cannot be 'closed', Gateways also have the advantage of allowing any empire controlling the system they're in to control who goes through said Gateway - hostile empires and empires to whom you have closed your borders will not be able to use 'your' Gateways to just appear inside of your systems.

When the first Gateway is re-activated, another random Gateway will also be re-activated along with it, so that there is never a situation where you just have a single active Gateway going nowhere. There is a slider on game setup that controls the frequency of abandoned gateways in the galaxy.
2017_11_02_8.png


Jump Drives
Jump Drives and Psi Jump Drives have been changed, and is now an advanced form of FTL that mixes Hyperdrive with some functionality from the old Warp FTL. They allow for a ship to travel normally and very quickly along hyperlanes, but also come equipped with a tactical 'jump' functionality that allows a fleet to make a point-to-point jump ignoring the normal hyperlane limitations. This is done with a special fleet order where you select a target system for the jump (within a certain pre-defined range, with Psi Jump Drives having longer range than regular Jump Drives), after which the fleet charges up its jump drive and creates a temporary wormhole leading to the system. After the fleet makes its 'jump', the Jump Drive will need to recharge, with a significant cooldown before it can be used again, and also applies a debuff to the fleet that reduces its combat effectiveness while the cooldown is in effect. This allows for fleets with Jump Drives to ignore the usual FTL restrictions and skip straight past enemy fleets and stations, but at the cost of leaving themselves vulnerable and potentially stranded for a time afterwards. This design is highly experimental, and may change during the development of Cherryh, but we wanted Jump Drives to not just be 'Hyperdrive IV' but rather to unlock new tactical and strategic possibilities for warfare.

Galactic Terrain
With the switch to Hyperlanes and the creation of strategically important systems and chokepoints, we've also decided to implement something we had always thought was a really interesting idea, but which made little sense without such chokepoints: Galactic Terrain. Specifically, systems with environmental effects and hazards that have profound tactical and strategic effects on ships and empires. This is still something we are in the middle of testing and prototyping, but so far we have created the following forms of Galactic Terrain:
Nebulas block all sensor coverage originating from other systems, meaning that it's impossible for an empire to see what ships and stations are inside a system in a nebula without having a ship or station stationed there, allowing empires to hide their fleets and set up ambushes.
Pulsars interfere with deflector technology, nullifying all ship and station shields in a system with a Pulsar.
Neutron Stars interfere with navigation and ship systems, significantly slowing down sublight travel in a system with a Neutron Star.
Black Holes interfere with FTL, increasing the time it takes for a fleet to charge its emergency FTL and making it more difficult to ships to individually disengage from combat (more on this in a later dev diary).

The above is just a first iteration, and it's something we're likely to tweak and build on more for both the Cherryh update and other updates beyond it, so stay tuned for more information on this.
2017_11_02_3.png

2017_11_02_5.png


That's all for today! I will finish this dev diary by saying that we do not expect everyone to be happy with these changes, but we truly believe that they are necessary to give Stellaris truly great warfare, and that we think you will find the game better for it once you get a chance to try them. We will be doing a Design Corner feature on today's Extraterrestial Thursday stream, where me and Game Designer Daniel Moregård (grekulf) will be discussing the changes, fielding questions and showing off some gameplay in the internal development build. If you want a look at some of these changes in a live game environment, be sure to tune to the Paradox Interactive twitch channel at 4pm CET.

Next week, we're going to talk about war and peace, including the complete rework of the current wargoal system that was made possible by the changes to FTL and system control discussed in this and last week's dev diary. See you then!
 
Last edited:
  • 1
  • 1
Reactions:

Alextrasia

Second Lieutenant
90 Badges
Jan 30, 2012
150
33
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Rome Gold
  • Semper Fi
  • Sword of the Stars II
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Divine Wind
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • For the Motherland
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Magicka 2: Ice, Death and Fury
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Magicka 2
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis IV
Very nice changes!
Keep up coming with the good ideas guys:)
I like all the changes. Mostly that the new starbases combind with chockpoints, the way of needing to travel in sub-ftl to the entry point and the terrain effects will make it a Lot more fun.
Now only solve the doomsstack problem.
Maybe as its done in galactic civilisation.
Add an tech which increases logistical fleet sieze, and give coordination disadvantage in a battle where more then x number of fleets fight. (Maybe another tech, tradition which increases this number.
Thisway a war might become 11 fleets against 9 over several systems back and forth.

Just my thoughts.

Looking forward for next dev. Diary :)
 

Lucre

Second Lieutenant
87 Badges
Mar 19, 2012
144
79
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Rome Gold
  • Semper Fi
  • Sengoku
  • Sword of the Stars
  • Sword of the Stars II
  • Knights of Honor
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Stellaris
  • Majesty 2 Collection
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Magicka
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
I'm sorry you feel that way. This was not a decision taken lightly, but I genuinely believe it's for the better of the game, and hope you're at least willing to give it a try before deciding that you for sure hate it. We will as always maintain a beta branch for old versions, so you can always continue to play on the current version instead.

It should be possible to use the FTL bypass system and/or Jump Drives to create comprehensive non hyperlane based travel methods, though it won't be exactly like old Warp.

I appreciate the reply, Wiz. After thinking about this, and some discussing with others, I'm prepared to concede that there might be a way to make this work effectively for me. I won't pretend that I don't think a warp solution would have been better, but I think with modding, and some imagination, it may be possible to get back to a system which at least has the same feel as you can get with a warp system.
 

OverthinkingThis

Second Lieutenant
18 Badges
May 17, 2017
143
0
  • Magicka
  • Surviving Mars
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Prison Architect
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • BATTLETECH
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II
Wanted to give a thumbs up for this change, my friends and I currently play with hyperlanes-only so we cannot wait.

I understand if you want to save it for next week, but "border conflicts" in particular caught my eye. Does this mean there will be a mechanic or interaction of some kind that allows for warfare with another empire but does not bring both sides to a state of total war? Or in other words, is there going to be a way to have a 'partial war' with someone? (I would be so incredibly happy if so, I've even mused the idea in the suggestion sub-forum)
 

Master Zero

Recruit
41 Badges
May 9, 2017
1
0
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Age of Wonders
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Shadowrun: Hong Kong
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
I usually don't play hyperlanes, and I am not too fond of the hyperlane only change. I do see why y'all did it however. I will keep an optimistic approach to this however, although only because y'all are going to make a slider for increased hyperlanes. I love the galactic terrain features though. Jump drives seem a little lackluster with these changes now. I hope the cool down for the "jumps" won't be too long as that could drastically offset their bonus to conventional travel ( hyperlanes)
 

The_Red_Star

Major
75 Badges
Aug 11, 2014
602
715
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Magicka
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Rome Gold
  • Semper Fi
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Darkest Hour
  • Europa Universalis III
  • For the Motherland
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Battle for Bosporus
I'm cautiously optimistic but still expecting this to be buggy for about a year before the kinks are worked out.

I know how you and your year long de facto betas work. :p
 
Last edited:

MordredViking

Community Manager
Paradox Staff
Moderator
117 Badges
Nov 29, 2009
1.532
1.174
  • Ship Simulator Extremes
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Knights of Pen and Paper +1 Edition
  • Lead and Gold
  • The Kings Crusade
  • Magicka
  • Majesty 2
  • March of the Eagles
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Rome Gold
  • Semper Fi
  • Impire
  • Sword of the Stars
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Field Marshal
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • Warlock 2: The Exiled
  • Stellaris
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Commander: Conquest of the Americas
  • East India Company Collection
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • For The Glory
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Heir to the Throne
I was a Wormhole player myself, loved how unique it felt - but found myself playing Hyperlane Only games more and more due to the more strategic nature of it. This is a change I felt the game needed, but one I never expected you guys to actually follow through on. Kudos for having the ability to take real risks in order to improve the game further.

Looking forward to hearing more about how this will move the game forward, especially for warfare and diplomacy!
 

Umega

Colonel
48 Badges
Feb 23, 2012
1.060
789
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Semper Fi
  • Rome Gold
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Majesty 2 Collection
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • For the Motherland
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Divine Wind
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • 500k Club
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Cities: Skylines
I have to say Cherryh is looking to be the best and biggest update to Stellaris. Personally, I'm ok with hyplerlanes-only gameplay and I will be using the slider that will increase the frequency of hyperlanes connected to all neighbouring systems. But I REALLY need to see some examples of the new border mechanics!
 

Uglyr

MM Dev Team
118 Badges
Apr 3, 2007
1.527
232
  • Sengoku
  • Impire
  • King Arthur II
  • Knights of Pen and Paper +1 Edition
  • Leviathan: Warships
  • The Kings Crusade
  • Magicka
  • Majesty 2
  • Majesty 2 Collection
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Rome Gold
  • Semper Fi
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Ship Simulator Extremes
  • Sword of the Stars
  • Sword of the Stars II
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • Warlock 2: The Exiled
  • Warlock 2: Wrath of the Nagas
  • 200k Club
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Dungeonland
  • Cities in Motion
  • Cities in Motion 2
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Darkest Hour
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • For The Glory
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
For me playing with wormholes this sounds rather restrictive. The chance to be locked at game start with space monsters or decadent empires isn't fun. I'd prefer to leave warp (or wormhole push) FTL for civilian ships with ability to claim disconnected systems and then build short wormhole/lane stations to allow military travel. And allow this early game in case you are locked.
 

fourworlds

Sergeant
76 Badges
Apr 18, 2015
78
110
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Empire of Sin
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
I almost never log in to comment as I always just read the dev diaries and move on, but I felt it was important to comment this time given the nature of this post.

I have always hated being a hyperlane civilization, specifically because it's the worst to have when other civilizations have wormhole and warp. I always thought it was a great idea, but not with the other FTL types. Now that this is the only type, I'm actually really excited to play again, as I haven't touched stellaris much recently. I agree that combat doesn't have much room to expand without this sort of a change, and I support this decision 100%! Looking forward to these next few dev diaries with renewed interest! :)
 

TheArchduke

Doing his own thing
85 Badges
Oct 10, 2001
8.072
78
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Majesty 2
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Sengoku
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • Warlock 2: The Exiled
  • 200k Club
  • 500k Club
  • Magicka
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Diplomacy
  • Cities in Motion
  • Cities in Motion 2
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Deus Vult
  • A Game of Dwarves
  • East India Company
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
  • Heir to the Throne
For what it's worth @Wiz I enthusiastically agree with all of these changes. I've felt from shortly after launch that Hyperlanes-only is clearly how the game ought to work, and I've been playing Hyperlanes-only since my first game. The new galactic terrain is a great idea too.

+1

Since you mentioned the rework, Wiz, I played Hyperdrive only and even the basegame is much better for it. Stay strong!:)
 

Homer2101

First Lieutenant
70 Badges
Jun 28, 2013
255
240
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Imperator: Rome - Magna Graecia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Victoria 2
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Steel Division: Normand 44 - Second Wave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
Looks like a good set of changes. A few suggestions:

Gates should be a starbase module. Because the number of starbases is capped, the number of gates will also be capped, thereby encouraging strategic placement and keeping geography meaningful into the late game.

Starbases should be buildable at any planet or moon of a system, not just its star. This is more logical, as starbases are strategic objects and should be placed at strategic objectives like inhabited planets. Also encourages fights at planets and not some sun.

There should be an option to link to friendly gates.

Jump drives should have a spool up time. The spool should become uncancellable midway through, at which point the destination system's owner should be notified of an incoming jump. This way jump drives don't become a cheap way to bypass geography.
 

Calvax

General
47 Badges
Jan 23, 2017
1.963
6.120
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Surviving Mars
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Prison Architect
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Victoria 2
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars Pre-Order
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
Yes, there is late game tech to build gateways.

If two empires (or a federation) have an open borders treaty does that link up their gateway networks? Or will an Empire A fleet needing to cross Empire B have to gate to the border of the two, cross it and then enter the Empire B network?
 

Tacticus101

Field Marshal
59 Badges
Mar 2, 2011
3.705
2.619
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Rome Gold
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Shadowrun: Hong Kong
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
Whilst I like the changes, i am concerned that just having hyperlane travel may create a few too many choke points in the early game. My problem with Hyperlanes has always been that a bit of bad luck early on can leave you blocked in by a space entity system. Either a guardian spawning in a system, or just a large Crystalline entity blob effectively ends any travel though that node, and can completely cut off an area. Early game, even a small group can be difficult to deal with and stop you travelling through.

Is this being looked at? Will it continue to be a problem?
 

Jamey

Field Marshal
106 Badges
Sep 9, 2009
3.437
3.383
  • 500k Club
  • BATTLETECH - Backer
I've been playing Hyperlane only for a while, so this is going to change less for me than others. The game plays better for me when I can have chokepoints to defend.

Sublight travel is also being changed somewhat, in the sense that you need to actually travel to the entry point to a particular hyperlane (the arrow inside a system) to enter it, rather than being able to enter any hyperlane from any point outside's a system's gravity well. This means that fleets will move in a more predictable fashion, and interdictions will frequently happen inside systems instead of nearly always being at the edge of them, in particular allowing for fleets to 'guard' important hyperlane entry/exit points. To compensate for the need to move across systems, sublight travel has been sped up, especially with more advanced forms of thrusters.
Conceptually, I love this. I'll have to see how I feel about the speed of travel with everything changed before having a final opinion. :)

Jump Drives
Jump Drives and Psi Jump Drives have been changed, and is now an advanced form of FTL that mixes Hyperdrive with some functionality from the old Warp FTL. They allow for a ship to travel normally and very quickly along hyperlanes, but also come equipped with a tactical 'jump' functionality that allows a fleet to make a point-to-point jump ignoring the normal hyperlane limitations. This is done with a special fleet order where you select a target system for the jump (within a certain pre-defined range, with Psi Jump Drives having longer range than regular Jump Drives), after which the fleet charges up its jump drive and creates a temporary wormhole leading to the system. After the fleet makes its 'jump', the Jump Drive will need to recharge, with a significant cooldown before it can be used again, and also applies a debuff to the fleet that reduces its combat effectiveness while the cooldown is in effect. This allows for fleets with Jump Drives to ignore the usual FTL restrictions and skip straight past enemy fleets and stations, but at the cost of leaving themselves vulnerable and potentially stranded for a time afterwards. This design is highly experimental, and may change during the development of Cherryh, but we wanted Jump Drives to not just be 'Hyperdrive IV' but rather to unlock new tactical and strategic possibilities for warfare.
I'm not sure about this. Right now, getting jump drives (or fighting an enemy with jump drives) in a hyperlane only galaxy is kind of lame. If you get them, it's god mode. If your enemy has them, it's annoyance mode unless you can bait them into fights of your choosing instead of having to play chase.

I do not like how ground combat works right now. I want to make it into something that actually adds to the game, not remove it.
I'm not a fan of the current ground combat and have never seen it done well in a space 4x I'm cool with it being pulled, but clearly not everyone is. :)

Yes, there is late game tech to build gateways.
Question answered. I like it.
 

Nornjen

Jehetma
18 Badges
Jun 1, 2016
63
3
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Surviving Mars
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II
Explore the cold vast emptiness of space!
But only on the interstellar high-way system some ancient civilization established, without which you would be stuck in your solar system, like the dumb apes you are. :D

Since I liked wormholes most, I'm very sad about this change. I always felt silly using hyperlanes.
The diversity in FTL drives added much to the immersion of the game with all the different empires and species.
That there is not a single truth for FTL, but you can come up with your own technology, was one thing i liked most about the game. (No, really... That was the first thing I mentioned, when I told somebody of Stellaris.)
Is there even another game/film/book that features this?

Nevertheless, I can still use the downgrade option...:(
 
Last edited:

post_toastie

Private
10 Badges
Oct 11, 2016
11
0
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • BATTLETECH
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
Sorta late to the party here, but a couple thoughts come to mind:

1. Don't like the idea of turning things into 'ground war in space' in that you have to travel through all the defenses to reach core areas. Though it seems there will be tech developed that may let you jump over outer systems, so I'm hopeful about that.

2. Not a big fan of having the sensor range tied to system. If a system is close by distance, I should be able to scan it even if it isn't a direct hyperspace link away. This just doesn't seem to make sense to me.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.