• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
Status
Not open for further replies.

Stellaris Dev Diary #92: FTL Rework and Galactic Terrain

Hello everyone and welcome to another Stellaris development diary. Today's dev diary is about Faster than Light travel in the Cherryh update, and it's likely to be a controversial one. When discussing, please remember to keep things civil, and I would kindly ask that you read the entire dev diary before rushing to post, as it's going to cover some of the questions and concerns we expect to see from the playerbase. Also, as posted last week, all of these changes are currently far away, and we cannot give more details on ETAs or the exact nature of the Cherryh update than we already have. Thank you!

FTL Rework
The single biggest design issue we have had to tackle in the Stellaris team since release is the asymmetrical FTL. While it's a cool and interesting idea on paper, the honest truth is that the feature just does not fit well into the game in practice, and blocks numerous improvements on a myriad of other features such as warfare and exploration, as well as solutions to fundamental design problems like the weakness of static defenses. After a lot of debate among the designers, we finally decided that if we were ever going to be able to tackle these issues and turn Stellaris into a game with truly engrossing and interesting warfare, we would have to bite the bullet and take a controversial decision: Consolidating FTL from the current three types down into a primarily hyperlane-based game, with more advanced forms of FTL unlocked through technology.

However, as I have said on the previous occasions when discussing this issue, one thing we would never consider doing is just slashing FTL types from the game without adding in something else to compensate their loss. That is what most of this dev diary is going to be about. However, before continuing with the details on the additions and changes we're making to FTL, I want to cover a couple of the questions I expect will arise from this:

Why are you removing FTL choices instead of building on them?
A lot of people have asked this question when we have brought up consolidating FTL types before, suggesting that problems such as static defenses can be solved by just adding more mechanics to handle each special case. I think the problem with this is best illustrated with defense stations and FTL inhibitors. One of the aims of the Starbase system is to give empires the ability to 'lock down' their borders, building fortresses that enemy fleets cannot simply skip past to strike at their core worlds, instead of having to create static defenses in every single valuable system.

With hyperlanes, this is a pretty simple affair: As hyperlanes create natural choke points, the only thing a hyperlane-stopping FTL inhibitor needs to do is to prevent enemy fleets from leaving the system once they enter it. The fleet can enter, it can retreat (via emergency FTL) and it can bring down the source of the FTL inhibitor (which might be a Starbase or even a planet) to be able to continue. This is quite easy to understand, both in terms of which system you need to defend to lock down your borders, and how it works when you are on the offensive.

Now let's add Warp to the mix. In this case, the single-system FTL inhibitor is useless because Warp fleets can just go over it, so we'll invent another mechanic: A warp interdiction bubble, stretching a certain distance around the system, that pull in any hostile Warp fleets traveling there to the system containing the FTL inhibitor, and force them to battle it or retreat. This is immediately a lot more messy: First of all, this bubble can't possibly affect Hyperlane fleets, because it could potentially pull them dozens of jumps away from their current location. This means that when fortifying your borders, you now need to not just make sure that every important chokepoint is covered, but also that your entire border is covered in warp interdiction bubbles.

But there's more: Add Wormholes as well, and you now have an FTL type where not only the 'bubble' type interdictor doesn't make intuitive sense (because Wormhole fleets make point-to-point jumps rather than traveling over the map) but if said interdictor works to pull Wormhole fleets out of position regardless of what makes intuitive sense, you end up with the same probem as with hyperlanes, where the fleet can get pulled out of range of its wormhole network and end up stranded even if it brings down the defenses. This means you pretty much have to invent a third type of interdiction type for Wormhole on top of what is already an overengineered and hard to understand system.

Finally, add the problem of displaying all these different types of inhibitors and interdictors on the map, in a way that the player can even remotely start to understand, and you end up with nothing short of a complete mess, where it's far better to just have static defenses protecting single valuable systems... and so we come full circle.

This is the fundamental problem that we have been grappling with when it comes to asymmetrical FTL: What works in a game such as Sword of the Stars, with its turn-based gameplay, small maps of usually no more than 3-6 empires, and 1-on-1 wars breaks down completely in a Stellaris game with real-time gameplay and wars potentially containing a dozen actors, all with their own form of FTL. The complexity collapses into what is for the player just a mess of fleets appearing and disappearing with no discernible logic to them.

Why Hyperlanes?
When discussing this, we essentially boiled down the consolidation into three possibilities: Hyperlanes only, Warp-only, and Warp+Hyperlanes. Wormhole is simply too different a FTL type to ever really work with the others, and not intuitive enough to work as the sole starting FTL for everyone playing the game. Keeping both Warp and Hyperlanes would be an improvement, but would still keep many of the issues we currently have in regards to user experience and fleet coordination. Warp-only was considered as an alternative, but ultimately Hyperlanes won out because of the possibilities it opens up for galactic geography, static defenses and enhancements to exploration.

Here are the some of the possibilities that consolidation of FTL into Hyperlanes creates for Stellaris:
  • Unified distance, sensor and border systems that make sense for everyone (for example, cost of claiming a system not being based on euclidean distance but rather the actual distance for ships to travel there)
  • Galactic 'geography', systems that are strategically and tactically important due to location and 'terrain' (more on this below) rather than just resources
  • More possibilities for galaxy generation and exploration (for example, entire regions of space accessible only through a wormhole or a single guarded hyperlane, containing special locations and events to discover)
  • Better performance through caching and unified code (Wormhole FTL in particular is a massive resource hog in the late game)
  • Warfare with a distinct sense of 'theatres', advancing/retreating fronts and border skirmishes (more on this in future dev diaries)
Are all new forms of FTL free patch content?
Yes. Naturally we're not going to charge for any form of content meant to replace the loss of old FTL types.

Hyperlane and Sublight Travel
As mentioned, in the Cherryh update. all empires will now start the game with Hyperlanes as their only mode of FTL. By default, hyperlane generation is going to be changed to create more 'islands' and 'choke points', to make for more interesting galactic geography. However, as we know some players do not enjoy the idea of constricted space, we are going to add a slider that controls the general frequency and connectivity of hyperlanes. Turning this up will create a more connected galaxy and make it harder to protect all your systems with static defenses, for players who prefer something closer to the current game's Warp-style movement.

Sublight travel is also being changed somewhat, in the sense that you need to actually travel to the entry point to a particular hyperlane (the arrow inside a system) to enter it, rather than being able to enter any hyperlane from any point outside's a system's gravity well. This means that fleets will move in a more predictable fashion, and interdictions will frequently happen inside systems instead of nearly always being at the edge of them, in particular allowing for fleets to 'guard' important hyperlane entry/exit points. To compensate for the need to move across systems, sublight travel has been sped up, especially with more advanced forms of thrusters.
2017_11_02_2.png


FTL Sensors
Along with the change to FTL, we are also changing the way sensors work. Instead of simply being a circle radiating an arbitrary distance from a ship, station or planet, each level of sensors can now see a certain distance in FTL connections. For example, a ship with level 1 sensors (Radar) will only give sensor coverage of the same system that it is currently in, while a ship with level 2 (Gravitic) sensors will give sensor coverage of that system and all systems connected to it through a Hyperlane or explored Wormhole (more on that below), a ship with level 3 sensors will be able to see systems connected to those systems, and so on. Sensor coverage can be 'blocked' by certain galactic features (more on that below), which will also block propagation into further connected systems. We are currently discussing the implementation of sensor blockers as a potential Starbase component.
2017_11_02_1.png


Wormholes
While Wormhole as a full-fledged FTL type is gone, Wormholes are not. Instead they have been changed into a natural formation that can be encountered while exploring the galaxy. Wormholes come in pairs, essentially functioning as very long hyperlanes that can potentially take a ship across the entire galaxy near-instantly. Natural Wormholes are unstable, and when first encountered, you will not be able to explore them. To explore a Wormhole, you need the Wormhole Stabilization technology, after which a science ship can be sent to stabilize and chart the Wormhole to find out what lies on the other side. If you're lucky, this may be unclaimed space full of valuable systems, but it could just as well be a Devouring Swarm eager to come over for dinner. There is a slider on game setup that controls the frequency of wormhole pairs in the galaxy.
2017_11_02_4.png


Gateways
Gateways is an advanced form of FTL most closely resembling the Wormhole FTL in the live version of the game. While exploring the galaxy, you can find abandoned Gateways that were once part of a massive, galaxy-spanning network. These Gateways are disabled and unusable, but with the Gateway Reactivation mid-game technology and a hefty investment of minerals, they can be restored to working order. Like Wormholes, Gateways allow for near-instant travel to other Gateways, but the difference is that any activated Gateway can be used to travel to any other activated Gateway, and late-game technology allows for the construction of more Gateways to expand the network. Also unlike Wormholes, which cannot be 'closed', Gateways also have the advantage of allowing any empire controlling the system they're in to control who goes through said Gateway - hostile empires and empires to whom you have closed your borders will not be able to use 'your' Gateways to just appear inside of your systems.

When the first Gateway is re-activated, another random Gateway will also be re-activated along with it, so that there is never a situation where you just have a single active Gateway going nowhere. There is a slider on game setup that controls the frequency of abandoned gateways in the galaxy.
2017_11_02_8.png


Jump Drives
Jump Drives and Psi Jump Drives have been changed, and is now an advanced form of FTL that mixes Hyperdrive with some functionality from the old Warp FTL. They allow for a ship to travel normally and very quickly along hyperlanes, but also come equipped with a tactical 'jump' functionality that allows a fleet to make a point-to-point jump ignoring the normal hyperlane limitations. This is done with a special fleet order where you select a target system for the jump (within a certain pre-defined range, with Psi Jump Drives having longer range than regular Jump Drives), after which the fleet charges up its jump drive and creates a temporary wormhole leading to the system. After the fleet makes its 'jump', the Jump Drive will need to recharge, with a significant cooldown before it can be used again, and also applies a debuff to the fleet that reduces its combat effectiveness while the cooldown is in effect. This allows for fleets with Jump Drives to ignore the usual FTL restrictions and skip straight past enemy fleets and stations, but at the cost of leaving themselves vulnerable and potentially stranded for a time afterwards. This design is highly experimental, and may change during the development of Cherryh, but we wanted Jump Drives to not just be 'Hyperdrive IV' but rather to unlock new tactical and strategic possibilities for warfare.

Galactic Terrain
With the switch to Hyperlanes and the creation of strategically important systems and chokepoints, we've also decided to implement something we had always thought was a really interesting idea, but which made little sense without such chokepoints: Galactic Terrain. Specifically, systems with environmental effects and hazards that have profound tactical and strategic effects on ships and empires. This is still something we are in the middle of testing and prototyping, but so far we have created the following forms of Galactic Terrain:
Nebulas block all sensor coverage originating from other systems, meaning that it's impossible for an empire to see what ships and stations are inside a system in a nebula without having a ship or station stationed there, allowing empires to hide their fleets and set up ambushes.
Pulsars interfere with deflector technology, nullifying all ship and station shields in a system with a Pulsar.
Neutron Stars interfere with navigation and ship systems, significantly slowing down sublight travel in a system with a Neutron Star.
Black Holes interfere with FTL, increasing the time it takes for a fleet to charge its emergency FTL and making it more difficult to ships to individually disengage from combat (more on this in a later dev diary).

The above is just a first iteration, and it's something we're likely to tweak and build on more for both the Cherryh update and other updates beyond it, so stay tuned for more information on this.
2017_11_02_3.png

2017_11_02_5.png


That's all for today! I will finish this dev diary by saying that we do not expect everyone to be happy with these changes, but we truly believe that they are necessary to give Stellaris truly great warfare, and that we think you will find the game better for it once you get a chance to try them. We will be doing a Design Corner feature on today's Extraterrestial Thursday stream, where me and Game Designer Daniel Moregård (grekulf) will be discussing the changes, fielding questions and showing off some gameplay in the internal development build. If you want a look at some of these changes in a live game environment, be sure to tune to the Paradox Interactive twitch channel at 4pm CET.

Next week, we're going to talk about war and peace, including the complete rework of the current wargoal system that was made possible by the changes to FTL and system control discussed in this and last week's dev diary. See you then!
 
Last edited:
  • 1
  • 1
Reactions:

Hyomoto

Major
53 Badges
Dec 2, 2015
723
198
  • Magicka
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Tyranny - Tales from the Tiers
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Prison Architect
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Cities: Skylines - Campus
  • Surviving Mars: Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Deluxe edition
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Premium edition
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Season pass
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Prison Architect: Psych Ward
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Island Bound
  • Empire of Sin
  • Empire of Sin - Premium Edition
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Sword of the Stars
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Surviving Mars
  • Tyranny - Bastards Wound
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Sword of the Stars II
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
There's a lot of salt here. The debate and questions are understandable, but the true doomsayers "if only I'd known, I wouldn't have X'. It's like, can we at least pretend like it's possible that something good can come out of this?
 

NexusCron

Sergeant
120 Badges
Oct 30, 2011
50
5
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Prison Architect: Psych Ward
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall
  • Age of Wonders II
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • BATTLETECH: Season pass
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Prison Architect
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Tyranny: Gold Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Field Marshal
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Tyranny - Bastards Wound
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Season pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Premium edition
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • BATTLETECH: Heavy Metal
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Sign Up
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Deluxe edition
Hyomoto, your not supposed to use logic and sense in such things, Doomsaying is a glorious hobby that is one of the most important things in the world! (/sarcasm for those who don't get it.)
 

Stahl-Opa

Marshall & Grossadmiral of Helvetia
71 Badges
Jun 16, 2011
705
130
www.vmods.org
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Gettysburg
  • Heir to the Throne
  • King Arthur II
  • Leviathan: Warships
  • Magicka
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Warlock 2: Wrath of the Nagas
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Darkest Hour
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Stellaris
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • 500k Club
  • Warlock 2: The Exiled
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
There's a lot of salt here. The debate and questions are understandable, but the true doomsayers "if only I'd known, I wouldn't have X'. It's like, can we at least pretend like it's possible that something good can come out of this?

I understand you, but if you ask me: No, I can't pretend that's possible a good Thing to cut out content and make bad design choices.

It's not like "we build in a new ground combat System, but since it's experimental, we don't know if it works".
It's more like "lol, we've trolled ya, thx for the Money".
 

Sherry Fox

Captain
18 Badges
Nov 4, 2017
303
245
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Magicka
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Magicka 2
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Magicka: Wizard Wars Founder Wizard
There has been a string of bad decisions lately. The fact that you cant build multiple dyson and science nexuses. Border removal. Wormhole/warp removal. I fear we will end up playing checkers with a stellaris themed wallpaper
 

Akka le Vil

Major
12 Badges
Nov 9, 2004
754
1.315
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Divine Wind
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • 500k Club
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
There's a lot of salt here. The debate and questions are understandable, but the true doomsayers "if only I'd known, I wouldn't have X'. It's like, can we at least pretend like it's possible that something good can come out of this?
It's possible that OTHER, unrelated decisions will be good. It's not possible that destroying the core game will be good by itself (unless you disliked the Stellaris concept and wanted another game to begin with).

That's also, precisely, the salt rubbed over the wound : if Paradox eventually bugfix the game and add good diplomacy and economy, then it'll be a choice between destroying a part of the game (land-based warfare in space and only one FTL method, which is also the most restricted and boring) OR not benefitting from the diplomacy/economy. And people wonder why others are up in arms about this shit ?
 

Borgratz

Major
46 Badges
May 27, 2016
713
1.558
  • Crusader Kings II
  • BATTLETECH
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Surviving Mars
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Age of Wonders II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Surviving Mars: Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • BATTLETECH: Flashpoint
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Deluxe edition
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Prison Architect
  • Magicka 2
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Darkest Hour
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Magicka
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
I think it's more that a fair segment of the population finds losing wars not fun and it's much easier to win predictable wars. The devs realize this so they are making war more predictable for the can't stand losing crowd.

Losing a war, because its impossible for a human to follow whats happening, not because you made bad stretegic decisions is called bad game design. If you like that sort of thing, I can recomend slot machines. Multi front wars with multiple races using multiple ways to jump around all over your system was an unpredictable mess. Im not saying that removing 2 ftls is the only solution to that. But "git gud" is not the right answer to messy game features. Git gut only works with highly predictable fair but difficult games like dark souls.
 

Keltosh

Second Lieutenant
47 Badges
Jul 9, 2013
118
0
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Sword of the Stars
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Shadowrun: Hong Kong
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
Now you people are just being disrespectful, and frankly I would even use stronger terms if the forums were not moderated.

It is one thing to disagree with the developers, or with a decision. Perfectly your right to do so.
It is a completely different thing to say that the developers are lazy. Or are just taking the easy way up. Or that they are trolling you. When you actually have no idea of what is going on at paradox, because you do not work there.


Grow up. And if you really feel so angry, go outside and take a walk. Some fresh air will do you good.
 

pete3great

Private
54 Badges
Jun 25, 2013
17
2
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Warlock 2: The Exiled
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Semper Fi
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Majesty 2 Collection
  • Magicka
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • For the Motherland
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • BATTLETECH
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Shadowrun: Hong Kong
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
There has been a string of bad decisions lately. The fact that you cant build multiple dyson and science nexuses. Border removal. Wormhole/warp removal. I fear we will end up playing checkers with a stellaris themed wallpaper


Yeah, the new border system sounds terrible and tedious. Which, on the later point, we're grand strategy gamers. We love tedious. Still.
 

Sherry Fox

Captain
18 Badges
Nov 4, 2017
303
245
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Magicka
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Magicka 2
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Magicka: Wizard Wars Founder Wizard
Now you people are just being disrespectful, and frankly I would even use stronger terms if the forums were not moderated.

It is one thing to disagree with the developers, or with a decision. Perfectly your right to do so.
It is a completely different thing to say that the developers are lazy. Or are just taking the easy way up. Or that they are trolling you. When you actually have no idea of what is going on at paradox, because you do not work there.


Grow up. And if you really feel so angry, go outside and take a walk. Some fresh air will do you good.
imagine if i sold you a car. You like it. Then a year later i come, take your car and replace it with a bicycle. It will be the same color though. Your response?
Edit: Ill also tell you its better to have a bicycle. Healthier, you know!
 

Stahl-Opa

Marshall & Grossadmiral of Helvetia
71 Badges
Jun 16, 2011
705
130
www.vmods.org
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Gettysburg
  • Heir to the Throne
  • King Arthur II
  • Leviathan: Warships
  • Magicka
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Warlock 2: Wrath of the Nagas
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Darkest Hour
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Stellaris
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • 500k Club
  • Warlock 2: The Exiled
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
...
... Or are just taking the easy way up. Or that they are trolling you. When you actually have no idea of what is going on at paradox, because you do not work there.
....

YES. definitly. They sell something. They change it's core. And no one has any idea about what's going on in Pdox. They could be honest, stand their man and tell us: yes, we want to make a more casual game. Or yes, we've made a badd decision. Or lol we just trolling.

But no, they only tells us daily how they improve the game and make it even greater (while cutting Content out).
 

LordInsane

Lt. General
91 Badges
Nov 1, 2007
1.282
108
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Darkest Hour
  • Deus Vult
  • For The Glory
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Tyranny - Bastards Wound
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Surviving Mars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Surviving Mars: Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma Pre-order
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Shadowrun: Hong Kong
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • VtM - Bloodlines 2 Blood Moon Edition
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Victoria 2
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
There's a lot of salt here. The debate and questions are understandable, but the true doomsayers "if only I'd known, I wouldn't have X'. It's like, can we at least pretend like it's possible that something good can come out of this?
Something good will come out of it... for people for whom things they liked about Stellaris did not include certain things with a strong enough preference. Since we know certain things will be removed or changed (with one of the main motivation given for some of them being forcing a strategic situation that not everyone agrees would be desirable in the first place), then it is hardly doomsaying for some people to say they wouldn't have bought the game, knowing what they know now.
 

Akka le Vil

Major
12 Badges
Nov 9, 2004
754
1.315
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Divine Wind
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • 500k Club
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
so you would if it you could do it travel faster than light thou one , where asteroid fields they are slow moving around an crashing into one another .
Asteroid fields are not like that in real life. They are thousand of km apart each others. Just like "nebula" only look like cloud of gases from a VERY long way off, but in reality they are VERY diffuse (like, a few particules per cubic kilometers).
 

Hyomoto

Major
53 Badges
Dec 2, 2015
723
198
  • Magicka
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Tyranny - Tales from the Tiers
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Prison Architect
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Cities: Skylines - Campus
  • Surviving Mars: Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Deluxe edition
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Premium edition
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Season pass
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Prison Architect: Psych Ward
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Island Bound
  • Empire of Sin
  • Empire of Sin - Premium Edition
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Sword of the Stars
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Surviving Mars
  • Tyranny - Bastards Wound
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Sword of the Stars II
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
I understand you, but if you ask me: No, I can't pretend that's possible a good Thing to cut out content and make bad design choices.

It's not like "we build in a new ground combat System, but since it's experimental, we don't know if it works".
It's more like "lol, we've trolled ya, thx for the Money".

It's possible that OTHER, unrelated decisions will be good. It's not possible that destroying the core game will be good by itself (unless you disliked the Stellaris concept and wanted another game to begin with).

That's also, precisely, the salt rubbed over the wound : if Paradox eventually bugfix the game and add good diplomacy and economy, then it'll be a choice between destroying a part of the game (land-based warfare in space and only one FTL method, which is also the most restricted and boring) OR not benefitting from the diplomacy/economy. And people wonder why others are up in arms about this shit ?

Let me ask this then, you hate these decisions. But there are a lot of people who like them. So if you got your way, and everyone else was upset: well, that doesn't matter? It only matters that you got what you wanted and all the other players be damned? Or should it be a committee thing? Should every new feature be put up to a vote? Or perhaps the game should only see bug fixes? I haven't enjoyed either of the past two updates because they only added things I really didn't care about. I think the game is "better" for them, but were they what I wanted? No. Not at all.

@Akka le Vil - I agree with your point a bit more but Stellaris warfare has never been interesting or fun. Check every topic ever written on the subject and there are a million ideas but only one consensus - it ain't that damn good. And never once has praise been levied at the fact it can be fought among three FTL types, in fact that's almost universally been considered one of the problems. Sure, ideas have always been from the viewpoint that there are three, but I've never seen someone state that was the "good part". So yeah, if this change is the foundation on which Stellaris grows a more focused and interesting game, I'm on board.
 

NexusCron

Sergeant
120 Badges
Oct 30, 2011
50
5
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Prison Architect: Psych Ward
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall
  • Age of Wonders II
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • BATTLETECH: Season pass
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Prison Architect
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Tyranny: Gold Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Field Marshal
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Tyranny - Bastards Wound
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Season pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Premium edition
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • BATTLETECH: Heavy Metal
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Sign Up
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Deluxe edition
Let me ask this then, you hate these decisions. But there are a lot of people who like them. So if you got your way, and everyone else was upset: well, that doesn't matter? It only matters that you got what you wanted and all the other players be damned? Or should it be a committee thing? Should every new feature be put up to a vote? Or perhaps the game should only see bug fixes? I haven't enjoyed either of the past two updates because they only added things I really didn't care about. I think the game is "better" for them, but were they what I wanted? No. Not at all.

@Akka le Vil - I agree with your point a bit more but Stellaris warfare has never been interesting or fun. Check every topic ever written on the subject and there are a million ideas but only one consensus - it ain't that damn good. And never once has praise been levied at the fact it can be fought among three FTL types, in fact that's almost universally been considered one of the problems. Sure, ideas have always been from the viewpoint that there are three, but I've never seen someone state that was the "good part". So yeah, if this change is the foundation on which Stellaris grows a more focused and interesting game, I'm on board.
I'm starting to see Hyomoto's POV from here.
 

Mrakvampire

Captain
88 Badges
Oct 19, 2009
406
247
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Semper Fi
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Majesty 2 Collection
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • For the Motherland
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Field Marshal
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • 500k Club
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Victoria 2
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
Are you saying that you believe that flying through an asteroid field at Warp speed would be perfectly safe?

Yes, as it is with non-warp speed without any way to maneuver (see Voyager program). You should understand that average distance between asteroids is ~10k km or even more, and average asteroid is only several meters in diameter. Go calculate % of impact chance.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.