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Stellaris Dev Diary #92: FTL Rework and Galactic Terrain

Hello everyone and welcome to another Stellaris development diary. Today's dev diary is about Faster than Light travel in the Cherryh update, and it's likely to be a controversial one. When discussing, please remember to keep things civil, and I would kindly ask that you read the entire dev diary before rushing to post, as it's going to cover some of the questions and concerns we expect to see from the playerbase. Also, as posted last week, all of these changes are currently far away, and we cannot give more details on ETAs or the exact nature of the Cherryh update than we already have. Thank you!

FTL Rework
The single biggest design issue we have had to tackle in the Stellaris team since release is the asymmetrical FTL. While it's a cool and interesting idea on paper, the honest truth is that the feature just does not fit well into the game in practice, and blocks numerous improvements on a myriad of other features such as warfare and exploration, as well as solutions to fundamental design problems like the weakness of static defenses. After a lot of debate among the designers, we finally decided that if we were ever going to be able to tackle these issues and turn Stellaris into a game with truly engrossing and interesting warfare, we would have to bite the bullet and take a controversial decision: Consolidating FTL from the current three types down into a primarily hyperlane-based game, with more advanced forms of FTL unlocked through technology.

However, as I have said on the previous occasions when discussing this issue, one thing we would never consider doing is just slashing FTL types from the game without adding in something else to compensate their loss. That is what most of this dev diary is going to be about. However, before continuing with the details on the additions and changes we're making to FTL, I want to cover a couple of the questions I expect will arise from this:

Why are you removing FTL choices instead of building on them?
A lot of people have asked this question when we have brought up consolidating FTL types before, suggesting that problems such as static defenses can be solved by just adding more mechanics to handle each special case. I think the problem with this is best illustrated with defense stations and FTL inhibitors. One of the aims of the Starbase system is to give empires the ability to 'lock down' their borders, building fortresses that enemy fleets cannot simply skip past to strike at their core worlds, instead of having to create static defenses in every single valuable system.

With hyperlanes, this is a pretty simple affair: As hyperlanes create natural choke points, the only thing a hyperlane-stopping FTL inhibitor needs to do is to prevent enemy fleets from leaving the system once they enter it. The fleet can enter, it can retreat (via emergency FTL) and it can bring down the source of the FTL inhibitor (which might be a Starbase or even a planet) to be able to continue. This is quite easy to understand, both in terms of which system you need to defend to lock down your borders, and how it works when you are on the offensive.

Now let's add Warp to the mix. In this case, the single-system FTL inhibitor is useless because Warp fleets can just go over it, so we'll invent another mechanic: A warp interdiction bubble, stretching a certain distance around the system, that pull in any hostile Warp fleets traveling there to the system containing the FTL inhibitor, and force them to battle it or retreat. This is immediately a lot more messy: First of all, this bubble can't possibly affect Hyperlane fleets, because it could potentially pull them dozens of jumps away from their current location. This means that when fortifying your borders, you now need to not just make sure that every important chokepoint is covered, but also that your entire border is covered in warp interdiction bubbles.

But there's more: Add Wormholes as well, and you now have an FTL type where not only the 'bubble' type interdictor doesn't make intuitive sense (because Wormhole fleets make point-to-point jumps rather than traveling over the map) but if said interdictor works to pull Wormhole fleets out of position regardless of what makes intuitive sense, you end up with the same probem as with hyperlanes, where the fleet can get pulled out of range of its wormhole network and end up stranded even if it brings down the defenses. This means you pretty much have to invent a third type of interdiction type for Wormhole on top of what is already an overengineered and hard to understand system.

Finally, add the problem of displaying all these different types of inhibitors and interdictors on the map, in a way that the player can even remotely start to understand, and you end up with nothing short of a complete mess, where it's far better to just have static defenses protecting single valuable systems... and so we come full circle.

This is the fundamental problem that we have been grappling with when it comes to asymmetrical FTL: What works in a game such as Sword of the Stars, with its turn-based gameplay, small maps of usually no more than 3-6 empires, and 1-on-1 wars breaks down completely in a Stellaris game with real-time gameplay and wars potentially containing a dozen actors, all with their own form of FTL. The complexity collapses into what is for the player just a mess of fleets appearing and disappearing with no discernible logic to them.

Why Hyperlanes?
When discussing this, we essentially boiled down the consolidation into three possibilities: Hyperlanes only, Warp-only, and Warp+Hyperlanes. Wormhole is simply too different a FTL type to ever really work with the others, and not intuitive enough to work as the sole starting FTL for everyone playing the game. Keeping both Warp and Hyperlanes would be an improvement, but would still keep many of the issues we currently have in regards to user experience and fleet coordination. Warp-only was considered as an alternative, but ultimately Hyperlanes won out because of the possibilities it opens up for galactic geography, static defenses and enhancements to exploration.

Here are the some of the possibilities that consolidation of FTL into Hyperlanes creates for Stellaris:
  • Unified distance, sensor and border systems that make sense for everyone (for example, cost of claiming a system not being based on euclidean distance but rather the actual distance for ships to travel there)
  • Galactic 'geography', systems that are strategically and tactically important due to location and 'terrain' (more on this below) rather than just resources
  • More possibilities for galaxy generation and exploration (for example, entire regions of space accessible only through a wormhole or a single guarded hyperlane, containing special locations and events to discover)
  • Better performance through caching and unified code (Wormhole FTL in particular is a massive resource hog in the late game)
  • Warfare with a distinct sense of 'theatres', advancing/retreating fronts and border skirmishes (more on this in future dev diaries)
Are all new forms of FTL free patch content?
Yes. Naturally we're not going to charge for any form of content meant to replace the loss of old FTL types.

Hyperlane and Sublight Travel
As mentioned, in the Cherryh update. all empires will now start the game with Hyperlanes as their only mode of FTL. By default, hyperlane generation is going to be changed to create more 'islands' and 'choke points', to make for more interesting galactic geography. However, as we know some players do not enjoy the idea of constricted space, we are going to add a slider that controls the general frequency and connectivity of hyperlanes. Turning this up will create a more connected galaxy and make it harder to protect all your systems with static defenses, for players who prefer something closer to the current game's Warp-style movement.

Sublight travel is also being changed somewhat, in the sense that you need to actually travel to the entry point to a particular hyperlane (the arrow inside a system) to enter it, rather than being able to enter any hyperlane from any point outside's a system's gravity well. This means that fleets will move in a more predictable fashion, and interdictions will frequently happen inside systems instead of nearly always being at the edge of them, in particular allowing for fleets to 'guard' important hyperlane entry/exit points. To compensate for the need to move across systems, sublight travel has been sped up, especially with more advanced forms of thrusters.
2017_11_02_2.png


FTL Sensors
Along with the change to FTL, we are also changing the way sensors work. Instead of simply being a circle radiating an arbitrary distance from a ship, station or planet, each level of sensors can now see a certain distance in FTL connections. For example, a ship with level 1 sensors (Radar) will only give sensor coverage of the same system that it is currently in, while a ship with level 2 (Gravitic) sensors will give sensor coverage of that system and all systems connected to it through a Hyperlane or explored Wormhole (more on that below), a ship with level 3 sensors will be able to see systems connected to those systems, and so on. Sensor coverage can be 'blocked' by certain galactic features (more on that below), which will also block propagation into further connected systems. We are currently discussing the implementation of sensor blockers as a potential Starbase component.
2017_11_02_1.png


Wormholes
While Wormhole as a full-fledged FTL type is gone, Wormholes are not. Instead they have been changed into a natural formation that can be encountered while exploring the galaxy. Wormholes come in pairs, essentially functioning as very long hyperlanes that can potentially take a ship across the entire galaxy near-instantly. Natural Wormholes are unstable, and when first encountered, you will not be able to explore them. To explore a Wormhole, you need the Wormhole Stabilization technology, after which a science ship can be sent to stabilize and chart the Wormhole to find out what lies on the other side. If you're lucky, this may be unclaimed space full of valuable systems, but it could just as well be a Devouring Swarm eager to come over for dinner. There is a slider on game setup that controls the frequency of wormhole pairs in the galaxy.
2017_11_02_4.png


Gateways
Gateways is an advanced form of FTL most closely resembling the Wormhole FTL in the live version of the game. While exploring the galaxy, you can find abandoned Gateways that were once part of a massive, galaxy-spanning network. These Gateways are disabled and unusable, but with the Gateway Reactivation mid-game technology and a hefty investment of minerals, they can be restored to working order. Like Wormholes, Gateways allow for near-instant travel to other Gateways, but the difference is that any activated Gateway can be used to travel to any other activated Gateway, and late-game technology allows for the construction of more Gateways to expand the network. Also unlike Wormholes, which cannot be 'closed', Gateways also have the advantage of allowing any empire controlling the system they're in to control who goes through said Gateway - hostile empires and empires to whom you have closed your borders will not be able to use 'your' Gateways to just appear inside of your systems.

When the first Gateway is re-activated, another random Gateway will also be re-activated along with it, so that there is never a situation where you just have a single active Gateway going nowhere. There is a slider on game setup that controls the frequency of abandoned gateways in the galaxy.
2017_11_02_8.png


Jump Drives
Jump Drives and Psi Jump Drives have been changed, and is now an advanced form of FTL that mixes Hyperdrive with some functionality from the old Warp FTL. They allow for a ship to travel normally and very quickly along hyperlanes, but also come equipped with a tactical 'jump' functionality that allows a fleet to make a point-to-point jump ignoring the normal hyperlane limitations. This is done with a special fleet order where you select a target system for the jump (within a certain pre-defined range, with Psi Jump Drives having longer range than regular Jump Drives), after which the fleet charges up its jump drive and creates a temporary wormhole leading to the system. After the fleet makes its 'jump', the Jump Drive will need to recharge, with a significant cooldown before it can be used again, and also applies a debuff to the fleet that reduces its combat effectiveness while the cooldown is in effect. This allows for fleets with Jump Drives to ignore the usual FTL restrictions and skip straight past enemy fleets and stations, but at the cost of leaving themselves vulnerable and potentially stranded for a time afterwards. This design is highly experimental, and may change during the development of Cherryh, but we wanted Jump Drives to not just be 'Hyperdrive IV' but rather to unlock new tactical and strategic possibilities for warfare.

Galactic Terrain
With the switch to Hyperlanes and the creation of strategically important systems and chokepoints, we've also decided to implement something we had always thought was a really interesting idea, but which made little sense without such chokepoints: Galactic Terrain. Specifically, systems with environmental effects and hazards that have profound tactical and strategic effects on ships and empires. This is still something we are in the middle of testing and prototyping, but so far we have created the following forms of Galactic Terrain:
Nebulas block all sensor coverage originating from other systems, meaning that it's impossible for an empire to see what ships and stations are inside a system in a nebula without having a ship or station stationed there, allowing empires to hide their fleets and set up ambushes.
Pulsars interfere with deflector technology, nullifying all ship and station shields in a system with a Pulsar.
Neutron Stars interfere with navigation and ship systems, significantly slowing down sublight travel in a system with a Neutron Star.
Black Holes interfere with FTL, increasing the time it takes for a fleet to charge its emergency FTL and making it more difficult to ships to individually disengage from combat (more on this in a later dev diary).

The above is just a first iteration, and it's something we're likely to tweak and build on more for both the Cherryh update and other updates beyond it, so stay tuned for more information on this.
2017_11_02_3.png

2017_11_02_5.png


That's all for today! I will finish this dev diary by saying that we do not expect everyone to be happy with these changes, but we truly believe that they are necessary to give Stellaris truly great warfare, and that we think you will find the game better for it once you get a chance to try them. We will be doing a Design Corner feature on today's Extraterrestial Thursday stream, where me and Game Designer Daniel Moregård (grekulf) will be discussing the changes, fielding questions and showing off some gameplay in the internal development build. If you want a look at some of these changes in a live game environment, be sure to tune to the Paradox Interactive twitch channel at 4pm CET.

Next week, we're going to talk about war and peace, including the complete rework of the current wargoal system that was made possible by the changes to FTL and system control discussed in this and last week's dev diary. See you then!
 
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Rip Off Productions

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They lost the right to do whatever they want with it when they charged money for it. If it was a fan game or someone's passion project you would have a point.
you payed money for a product, true; you did so knowing that the developers could release patches and DLC that alter that product, there is no law nor contract(implicit or legally binding) saying that they can't change this or that arbitrary selected part of the game in any way they want for any reason they want, if you don't like them, you are free to both complain and stop supporting their products, and even try to convince others to do so as well.

if they don't change the Steam page to reflect these changes you can accuse them of false advertising then, but not before.

and Paradox gives you the option of not updating, and reverting to previous patches if you don't like the changes they have made, not all developers give you that option.
 

rbtucker

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Hyperlanes were a far worse contributor to the doomstack issue than wormholes.

Try even gating a full doomstack from a single wormhole station and see how many worlds you've lost in the process because of the multiple years charge-up time.

Why would you use a single worm hole station?
 

LambTaco

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False, you might be right if the change was mandatory, but you can always, as stated in the dev diary, select an older version, like 1.8, and keep playing that one.
So they are NOT actually forcing this change onto you.
False false, double negative. We're going to have to agree to disagree.
I paid full price, and bought some of the DLC, for a retail release. Not an early access build, retail. Meaning the game is in a complete, but flawed, state. There's an expectation that major features of a game don't get cut after release. If I bought the game for a reduced price during early access and they cut down the FTL methods, I would have to accpet it. But what has happened is like if World of Warcraft just decided to cut two thirds of the character classes a year after it came out because the devs preferred them and wanted the game to go more in that direction. And then they say, oh you can still play on vanilla servers if you want to use those classes, but you can't use any new DLC or Expansions with them. That would be outrageous then, and this is outrageous now.
 

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False false, double negative. We're going to have to agree to disagree.
I paid full price, and bought some of the DLC, for a retail release. Not an early access build, retail. Meaning the game is in a complete, but flawed, state. There's an expectation that major features of a game don't get cut after release. If I bought the game for a reduced price during early access and they cut down the FTL methods, I would have to accpet it. But what has happened is like if World of Warcraft just decided to cut two thirds of the character classes a year after it came out because the devs preferred them and wanted the game to go more in that direction. And then they say, oh you can still play on vanilla servers if you want to use those classes, but you can't use any new DLC or Expansions with them. That would be outrageous then, and this is outrageous now.

? They have completely cut out abilities, talent trees, etc. resulting in completely new play styles more than once.

Not to mention complete overhauls of PvP systems, elimination of twinks in BGs, new content rendering old content barren and obsolete, etc.
 
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Stormhawke

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Yeah, I hear what you are saying. I just wish those issues would be addressed, better fleet actions would lead to more defense actions etc. Honestly I feel after Wiz played Moo2 he pined for the 4x days of wonder as a kid and by darn it they only had space lanes, they liked it, they loved it! heh. It is 2017 let's have some designs for the future, not building backwards into the past. If we want retro, we can head over to GoG and fire up some old games no problem : )
I'm pages and pages behind, but... Master of Orion 1 and 2 ere not space lane games- they featured open travel limited by fuel range anchored to your colony locations- it was kind of like a cross between Warp and Wormhole in the current Stellaris system. The only space lane-like parts were naturally-occurring wormholes that could link distant systems with an instantaneous tunnel that allowed traversal even if the endpoint of the wormhole was outside of your fuel range.

Space lanes started showing up later, like in Ascendancy (which featured a spherical starmap, which was rather peculiar to work around, and real-time game progression with time compression controls like Stellaris) and MOO3 (which still allowed off-starlane travel, though at gimped speeds, and suffered from many terrible design decisions that still leave a sour taste in Master of Orion fans' mouths- generally speaking, they're some of the most vocal opponents to starlanes and real-time tactical combat in the 4X community). From my perspective, open travel IS retro. And it's a retro I want to see more.
 

methegrate

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I'm sorry you feel that way. This was not a decision taken lightly, but I genuinely believe it's for the better of the game, and hope you're at least willing to give it a try before deciding that you for sure hate it. We will as always maintain a beta branch for old versions, so you can always continue to play on the current version instead.

It should be possible to use the FTL bypass system and/or Jump Drives to create comprehensive non hyperlane based travel methods, though it won't be exactly like old Warp.

Was just reading through the dev responses, and wanted to note this one.

For all that I disagree with this update (and I do disagree with it), it just seems worth pulling this response by Wiz back up. This was courteous, thoughtful and polite. Exactly the kind of thing that leaves me (at least) walking away feeling good about the consumer/creator relationship, even if I think this is a bad call.
 

Eelectrica

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False false, double negative. We're going to have to agree to disagree.
I paid full price, and bought some of the DLC, for a retail release. Not an early access build, retail. Meaning the game is in a complete, but flawed, state. There's an expectation that major features of a game don't get cut after release. If I bought the game for a reduced price during early access and they cut down the FTL methods, I would have to accpet it. But what has happened is like if World of Warcraft just decided to cut two thirds of the character classes a year after it came out because the devs preferred them and wanted the game to go more in that direction. And then they say, oh you can still play on vanilla servers if you want to use those classes, but you can't use any new DLC or Expansions with them. That would be outrageous then, and this is outrageous now.
When the game launched we had 4 ways of traversing the galaxy, when the update launches we will still have 4 methods of traversing the galaxy.
Not losing anything.
The DLC and expansions will work on the current version of the game and will continue to work in future versions of the game.

They've tried this system long enough, it's a failed experiment with combat being the hot mess that it currently is.
 

Kreliann

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False false, double negative. We're going to have to agree to disagree.
I paid full price, and bought some of the DLC, for a retail release. Not an early access build, retail. Meaning the game is in a complete, but flawed, state. There's an expectation that major features of a game don't get cut after release. If I bought the game for a reduced price during early access and they cut down the FTL methods, I would have to accpet it. But what has happened is like if World of Warcraft just decided to cut two thirds of the character classes a year after it came out because the devs preferred them and wanted the game to go more in that direction. And then they say, oh you can still play on vanilla servers if you want to use those classes, but you can't use any new DLC or Expansions with them. That would be outrageous then, and this is outrageous now.

Please point to me in what part of the EULA do they state that you had guaranteed patches and support at least until november 2017?
 

Nabuchadnezzar

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I am a fan of wormhole travel, because I like to keep to systems close to home and be able to defend in case of attack. I tried warp once but it's too slow for my taste as it's impossible to defend if the fleet is away. I never tried hyperlanes because I already played several other games with only that FTL method, but in those games you could fortify your borders better.
When I learned about this change, I gave hyperlanes a try, first in a small galaxy, then it's rapidly become my favourite method of play and I think I'll stick with hyperlanes only in the future.
I like that you'll have to move through a system in order to reach the other lanes (like in the Space Empires franchise) and I especially hope that the upcoming fortresses will make defending a few key systems possible.

I have no doubt that modders will be able to bring back warp and wormholes in their full glory and then some (given the upcoming new methods of travel and pathfinding preferences) so everyone will eventually be pleased, but I share Wiz's concern for defences especially in a wormhole game. I'm sure a modder will find ways, but hyperlanes are easier to play around.

I can't wait for Cherryh to go live :)
 

LambTaco

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you payed money for a product, true; you did so knowing that the developers could release patches and DLC that alter that product, there is no law nor contract(implicit or legally binding) saying that they can't change this or that arbitrary selected part of the game in any way they want for any reason they want, if you don't like them, you are free to both complain and stop supporting their products, and even try to convince others to do so as well.

I never said I was going to sue them, or even demand my money back. My point was that I have every right to complain. And I have every right to tell others that I am dissatisfied with my purchases.

? They have completely cut out abilities, talent trees, etc. resulting in completely new play styles more than once.

Not to mention complete overhauls of PvP systems, elimination of twinks in BGs, new content rendering old content barren and obsolete, etc.

That's still one syte short of removing 2/3 character classes. WoW was probably a bad example though. It's online only, so you'd expect extensive balance changes. Stellaris is primarily a singleplayer game (at least for me) so it's different.

When the game launched we had 4 ways of traversing the galaxy, when the update launches we will still have 4 methods of traversing the galaxy.
Not losing anything.
The DLC and expansions will work on the current version of the game and will continue to work in future versions of the game.

They've tried this system long enough, it's a failed experiment with combat being the hot mess that it currently is.

We have 3 starting FTL methods, after this patch we will have 1. That is a loss. I'm losing my preferred way to play the game. Jumpdrives are nerfed beyond recognition, and the other two "replacements" are situational. I'm not so much mad about cutting it down to one FTL, as I am mad about which FTL they chose, I absolutely hate hyperlanes. For gameplay reasons, for roleplay reasons, for lore reasons. I would have much preferred warp or wormhole generators if they worked out some way to make them more automatic.
 

Ingros

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I used to play warp only lately.. also currently playing the awesome star trek mod... i totally fear that those games wont be possible after the update :-(
Please tell me that it will be possible to mod those changes out :-/ but i assume we just have to stick to the old version via beta

On the other hand.. i totally like the ideas in that dev diary... i can see me playing another couple of hours and days after that

Also i would like to see different lvl of hyperlanes... longer lvl2 and 3 ones connecting farther away systems and if they are invisible before researching it could also be a surprise every now and then
 

Lucian667

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Hyperlanes were a far worse contributor to the doomstack issue than wormholes.

Try even gating a full doomstack from a single wormhole station and see how many worlds you've lost in the process because of the multiple years charge-up time.

Seems pretty obvious to me too. Without the need to spread your fleet out to guard against (or deliver) multiple potential points of attack, the whole issue of defense becomes dead easy and all you need to do is camp those vital choke points with the biggest stacks of doom you can churn out. Space strategy is suddenly reduced to simple RISK-boardgame thinking.

When you vastly restrict movement down to roads-in-space, fleets naturally end up being more concentrated because there are less places for them to be and no defensive need at all for them to be there. Forced starlanes are going to make the doomstack problem significantly worse, not better. Just as it did with disappointingly mediocre games like MOO-Cts.
 

KhoiDangDang

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Can you hide the completed hyperlanes map and systems, make it total unknown at the beginning? Like this, in the beginning, we have earth some hyperlanes lead to unknown systems but won't show further than that, everything else is a gray area, if you want to know more, you move your research ship to want of the system, completed surveying that system, it will review its hyperlanes. To save time, you can make some research technologies like the telescope to research specific systems like potential habitable, minerals, ... or radar research to scan the small area of hyperlanes map surround your internal system or the system that you build the radar. Haha, now you don't know where the choke points, good luck to those think it easy to just block the choke points.

And with travel technology without use wormholes or hyperlanes, you should make it more difficult like it needs two kinds of technologies to make it happen, first is the travel technology, second is the sensor or radar or some kind of other technologies, if you have only one travel technology, you have to use it at risk of you fleet will lost in the space (lost in mission, come out at different system but not the system you want you fillets go, ...).

Ps: Read my post, it will make more sense you should completed surveying earth before it will review its hyperlanes too.
 
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Druid1326

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Love what you guys are doing and I too have found great love with the Star Trek mod. Though I do feel I am on the side of the fence where I prefer warp travel over hyperlanes. Now do not get me wrong Sins of a Solar empire was fun in a way that they used star lanes and many other games have used this mechanic to great effect i.e. Ascendancy... Though At such a grand scale I would feel freedom of movement more beneficial. I do see the issue of chasing down rogue ships, enemy ships bypassing choke points, etc. But why dont we just solve this with zone of control style. If a starbase exists on a planet or as a frontier outpost they should exert a zone of control, such as the borders. When enemy ships come to jump to a system they would need to find a path away from a zone of control, if they enter the zone of control they will engage the fortification.

i.e.

Zone of Control, abbreviated to ZOC or ZoC, is a concept common to Civilization games, restricting military unit movement close to units controlled by another power. It usually works like this: if a unit is next to a rival unit, it is not allowed to move directly to (but can direct an attack towards) any other tile that is also next to a rival unit, unless one of your units is on it.

Now I understand this is turn based strategy, but the concept still makes sense. Military fleets or installation could affect a ZOC and slow down the movement of enemy ships coming into a system and I believe you should introduce the ability to intercept those fleets in open space. You could keep the borders the same, and use say ALT to show the ZOC of a starbase, or deep space station, hint add.

You could also add ships that use cloaking technology to ignore ZOC or fast marauder ships who travel faster through a ZOC.

Again whatever you decide is good with me, game is only getting better with age, love it!
 
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