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Stellaris Dev Diary #92: FTL Rework and Galactic Terrain

Hello everyone and welcome to another Stellaris development diary. Today's dev diary is about Faster than Light travel in the Cherryh update, and it's likely to be a controversial one. When discussing, please remember to keep things civil, and I would kindly ask that you read the entire dev diary before rushing to post, as it's going to cover some of the questions and concerns we expect to see from the playerbase. Also, as posted last week, all of these changes are currently far away, and we cannot give more details on ETAs or the exact nature of the Cherryh update than we already have. Thank you!

FTL Rework
The single biggest design issue we have had to tackle in the Stellaris team since release is the asymmetrical FTL. While it's a cool and interesting idea on paper, the honest truth is that the feature just does not fit well into the game in practice, and blocks numerous improvements on a myriad of other features such as warfare and exploration, as well as solutions to fundamental design problems like the weakness of static defenses. After a lot of debate among the designers, we finally decided that if we were ever going to be able to tackle these issues and turn Stellaris into a game with truly engrossing and interesting warfare, we would have to bite the bullet and take a controversial decision: Consolidating FTL from the current three types down into a primarily hyperlane-based game, with more advanced forms of FTL unlocked through technology.

However, as I have said on the previous occasions when discussing this issue, one thing we would never consider doing is just slashing FTL types from the game without adding in something else to compensate their loss. That is what most of this dev diary is going to be about. However, before continuing with the details on the additions and changes we're making to FTL, I want to cover a couple of the questions I expect will arise from this:

Why are you removing FTL choices instead of building on them?
A lot of people have asked this question when we have brought up consolidating FTL types before, suggesting that problems such as static defenses can be solved by just adding more mechanics to handle each special case. I think the problem with this is best illustrated with defense stations and FTL inhibitors. One of the aims of the Starbase system is to give empires the ability to 'lock down' their borders, building fortresses that enemy fleets cannot simply skip past to strike at their core worlds, instead of having to create static defenses in every single valuable system.

With hyperlanes, this is a pretty simple affair: As hyperlanes create natural choke points, the only thing a hyperlane-stopping FTL inhibitor needs to do is to prevent enemy fleets from leaving the system once they enter it. The fleet can enter, it can retreat (via emergency FTL) and it can bring down the source of the FTL inhibitor (which might be a Starbase or even a planet) to be able to continue. This is quite easy to understand, both in terms of which system you need to defend to lock down your borders, and how it works when you are on the offensive.

Now let's add Warp to the mix. In this case, the single-system FTL inhibitor is useless because Warp fleets can just go over it, so we'll invent another mechanic: A warp interdiction bubble, stretching a certain distance around the system, that pull in any hostile Warp fleets traveling there to the system containing the FTL inhibitor, and force them to battle it or retreat. This is immediately a lot more messy: First of all, this bubble can't possibly affect Hyperlane fleets, because it could potentially pull them dozens of jumps away from their current location. This means that when fortifying your borders, you now need to not just make sure that every important chokepoint is covered, but also that your entire border is covered in warp interdiction bubbles.

But there's more: Add Wormholes as well, and you now have an FTL type where not only the 'bubble' type interdictor doesn't make intuitive sense (because Wormhole fleets make point-to-point jumps rather than traveling over the map) but if said interdictor works to pull Wormhole fleets out of position regardless of what makes intuitive sense, you end up with the same probem as with hyperlanes, where the fleet can get pulled out of range of its wormhole network and end up stranded even if it brings down the defenses. This means you pretty much have to invent a third type of interdiction type for Wormhole on top of what is already an overengineered and hard to understand system.

Finally, add the problem of displaying all these different types of inhibitors and interdictors on the map, in a way that the player can even remotely start to understand, and you end up with nothing short of a complete mess, where it's far better to just have static defenses protecting single valuable systems... and so we come full circle.

This is the fundamental problem that we have been grappling with when it comes to asymmetrical FTL: What works in a game such as Sword of the Stars, with its turn-based gameplay, small maps of usually no more than 3-6 empires, and 1-on-1 wars breaks down completely in a Stellaris game with real-time gameplay and wars potentially containing a dozen actors, all with their own form of FTL. The complexity collapses into what is for the player just a mess of fleets appearing and disappearing with no discernible logic to them.

Why Hyperlanes?
When discussing this, we essentially boiled down the consolidation into three possibilities: Hyperlanes only, Warp-only, and Warp+Hyperlanes. Wormhole is simply too different a FTL type to ever really work with the others, and not intuitive enough to work as the sole starting FTL for everyone playing the game. Keeping both Warp and Hyperlanes would be an improvement, but would still keep many of the issues we currently have in regards to user experience and fleet coordination. Warp-only was considered as an alternative, but ultimately Hyperlanes won out because of the possibilities it opens up for galactic geography, static defenses and enhancements to exploration.

Here are the some of the possibilities that consolidation of FTL into Hyperlanes creates for Stellaris:
  • Unified distance, sensor and border systems that make sense for everyone (for example, cost of claiming a system not being based on euclidean distance but rather the actual distance for ships to travel there)
  • Galactic 'geography', systems that are strategically and tactically important due to location and 'terrain' (more on this below) rather than just resources
  • More possibilities for galaxy generation and exploration (for example, entire regions of space accessible only through a wormhole or a single guarded hyperlane, containing special locations and events to discover)
  • Better performance through caching and unified code (Wormhole FTL in particular is a massive resource hog in the late game)
  • Warfare with a distinct sense of 'theatres', advancing/retreating fronts and border skirmishes (more on this in future dev diaries)
Are all new forms of FTL free patch content?
Yes. Naturally we're not going to charge for any form of content meant to replace the loss of old FTL types.

Hyperlane and Sublight Travel
As mentioned, in the Cherryh update. all empires will now start the game with Hyperlanes as their only mode of FTL. By default, hyperlane generation is going to be changed to create more 'islands' and 'choke points', to make for more interesting galactic geography. However, as we know some players do not enjoy the idea of constricted space, we are going to add a slider that controls the general frequency and connectivity of hyperlanes. Turning this up will create a more connected galaxy and make it harder to protect all your systems with static defenses, for players who prefer something closer to the current game's Warp-style movement.

Sublight travel is also being changed somewhat, in the sense that you need to actually travel to the entry point to a particular hyperlane (the arrow inside a system) to enter it, rather than being able to enter any hyperlane from any point outside's a system's gravity well. This means that fleets will move in a more predictable fashion, and interdictions will frequently happen inside systems instead of nearly always being at the edge of them, in particular allowing for fleets to 'guard' important hyperlane entry/exit points. To compensate for the need to move across systems, sublight travel has been sped up, especially with more advanced forms of thrusters.
2017_11_02_2.png


FTL Sensors
Along with the change to FTL, we are also changing the way sensors work. Instead of simply being a circle radiating an arbitrary distance from a ship, station or planet, each level of sensors can now see a certain distance in FTL connections. For example, a ship with level 1 sensors (Radar) will only give sensor coverage of the same system that it is currently in, while a ship with level 2 (Gravitic) sensors will give sensor coverage of that system and all systems connected to it through a Hyperlane or explored Wormhole (more on that below), a ship with level 3 sensors will be able to see systems connected to those systems, and so on. Sensor coverage can be 'blocked' by certain galactic features (more on that below), which will also block propagation into further connected systems. We are currently discussing the implementation of sensor blockers as a potential Starbase component.
2017_11_02_1.png


Wormholes
While Wormhole as a full-fledged FTL type is gone, Wormholes are not. Instead they have been changed into a natural formation that can be encountered while exploring the galaxy. Wormholes come in pairs, essentially functioning as very long hyperlanes that can potentially take a ship across the entire galaxy near-instantly. Natural Wormholes are unstable, and when first encountered, you will not be able to explore them. To explore a Wormhole, you need the Wormhole Stabilization technology, after which a science ship can be sent to stabilize and chart the Wormhole to find out what lies on the other side. If you're lucky, this may be unclaimed space full of valuable systems, but it could just as well be a Devouring Swarm eager to come over for dinner. There is a slider on game setup that controls the frequency of wormhole pairs in the galaxy.
2017_11_02_4.png


Gateways
Gateways is an advanced form of FTL most closely resembling the Wormhole FTL in the live version of the game. While exploring the galaxy, you can find abandoned Gateways that were once part of a massive, galaxy-spanning network. These Gateways are disabled and unusable, but with the Gateway Reactivation mid-game technology and a hefty investment of minerals, they can be restored to working order. Like Wormholes, Gateways allow for near-instant travel to other Gateways, but the difference is that any activated Gateway can be used to travel to any other activated Gateway, and late-game technology allows for the construction of more Gateways to expand the network. Also unlike Wormholes, which cannot be 'closed', Gateways also have the advantage of allowing any empire controlling the system they're in to control who goes through said Gateway - hostile empires and empires to whom you have closed your borders will not be able to use 'your' Gateways to just appear inside of your systems.

When the first Gateway is re-activated, another random Gateway will also be re-activated along with it, so that there is never a situation where you just have a single active Gateway going nowhere. There is a slider on game setup that controls the frequency of abandoned gateways in the galaxy.
2017_11_02_8.png


Jump Drives
Jump Drives and Psi Jump Drives have been changed, and is now an advanced form of FTL that mixes Hyperdrive with some functionality from the old Warp FTL. They allow for a ship to travel normally and very quickly along hyperlanes, but also come equipped with a tactical 'jump' functionality that allows a fleet to make a point-to-point jump ignoring the normal hyperlane limitations. This is done with a special fleet order where you select a target system for the jump (within a certain pre-defined range, with Psi Jump Drives having longer range than regular Jump Drives), after which the fleet charges up its jump drive and creates a temporary wormhole leading to the system. After the fleet makes its 'jump', the Jump Drive will need to recharge, with a significant cooldown before it can be used again, and also applies a debuff to the fleet that reduces its combat effectiveness while the cooldown is in effect. This allows for fleets with Jump Drives to ignore the usual FTL restrictions and skip straight past enemy fleets and stations, but at the cost of leaving themselves vulnerable and potentially stranded for a time afterwards. This design is highly experimental, and may change during the development of Cherryh, but we wanted Jump Drives to not just be 'Hyperdrive IV' but rather to unlock new tactical and strategic possibilities for warfare.

Galactic Terrain
With the switch to Hyperlanes and the creation of strategically important systems and chokepoints, we've also decided to implement something we had always thought was a really interesting idea, but which made little sense without such chokepoints: Galactic Terrain. Specifically, systems with environmental effects and hazards that have profound tactical and strategic effects on ships and empires. This is still something we are in the middle of testing and prototyping, but so far we have created the following forms of Galactic Terrain:
Nebulas block all sensor coverage originating from other systems, meaning that it's impossible for an empire to see what ships and stations are inside a system in a nebula without having a ship or station stationed there, allowing empires to hide their fleets and set up ambushes.
Pulsars interfere with deflector technology, nullifying all ship and station shields in a system with a Pulsar.
Neutron Stars interfere with navigation and ship systems, significantly slowing down sublight travel in a system with a Neutron Star.
Black Holes interfere with FTL, increasing the time it takes for a fleet to charge its emergency FTL and making it more difficult to ships to individually disengage from combat (more on this in a later dev diary).

The above is just a first iteration, and it's something we're likely to tweak and build on more for both the Cherryh update and other updates beyond it, so stay tuned for more information on this.
2017_11_02_3.png

2017_11_02_5.png


That's all for today! I will finish this dev diary by saying that we do not expect everyone to be happy with these changes, but we truly believe that they are necessary to give Stellaris truly great warfare, and that we think you will find the game better for it once you get a chance to try them. We will be doing a Design Corner feature on today's Extraterrestial Thursday stream, where me and Game Designer Daniel Moregård (grekulf) will be discussing the changes, fielding questions and showing off some gameplay in the internal development build. If you want a look at some of these changes in a live game environment, be sure to tune to the Paradox Interactive twitch channel at 4pm CET.

Next week, we're going to talk about war and peace, including the complete rework of the current wargoal system that was made possible by the changes to FTL and system control discussed in this and last week's dev diary. See you then!
 
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HAL.9000.1

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Whilst the three different types of starting FTL gave Stellaris some of it's charm, the changes are probably for the best in order to improve wars.

People who really hate the changes to FTL travel should just play on an old patch.

Sure, because bugifixes and other balance changes that might come along aren't really that important. Er, except in PDX's basic value proposition (which is: "Well yeah our games+content packs are expensive, but look at all the neat stuff we give you with them over time -- it's a great value!"). So a bunch of people paid for a game (and the content packs) expecting (because of advertising) a stream of improvements lasting over years, only to find out that those "improvements" involved removing key features that they particularly liked, only one year out. I am one of those people, and I can tell you that the idea of playing a static "dead-end" branch of the game is already starting to affect my attitude towards Stellaris as a whole. I'll get over it, of course (and move on to another game), but if 20% of the players who have commented in a similar fashion follow suit, will the Stellaris dev team survive in its current form? Corporate re-org 8-Ball says "doubtful -- check back later".
 

ORCACommander

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In the end, numbers dont lie:
  • clear.png
    Agree x 811
  • clear.png
    Respectfully Disagree x 225
  • clear.png
    Helpful x 62
80% of people who have read about the change, liked it.

Vocal minorities are that, minorities, just screaming very loudly to make them look more influential than they are, while the happy users, that are majority, have long left this thread, probably just enjoying the game right now, waiting for the one next week.
I work retail and sell hard scapes. My profit margins on wall block patio brick ect, is 20%. If i just lost 20% potential sales that means at best I broke even
 

Bersercker

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Yeah, I hear what you are saying. I just wish those issues would be addressed, better fleet actions would lead to more defense actions etc. Honestly I feel after Wiz played Moo2 he pined for the 4x days of wonder as a kid and by darn it they only had space lanes, they liked it, they loved it! heh. It is 2017 let's have some designs for the future, not building backwards into the past. If we want retro, we can head over to GoG and fire up some old games no problem : )
MoO2 doesn't have space lanes though, it has warp with warp interdictors(that significantly decrease the ftl speed in a buble around the system where it is built) for defence and rare non-buildable natural wormholes. The range of the warp is also limited by tech and the distance to the nearest friendly system\outpost. You can also bombard enemy planets until nothing alive is left down there and blow them into chunks of rock with late game tech, so the doomstacks aren't really a thing there due to strength of multiple raiding fleets.

Imo, the MoO2 system has much more strategic depth than EU4 in space the devs are currently aiming at.
 
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Chreees

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Sure, because bugifixes and other balance changes that might come along aren't really that important. Er, except in PDX's basic value proposition (which is: "Well yeah our games+content packs are expensive, but look at all the neat stuff we give you with them over time -- it's a great value!"). So a bunch of people paid for a game (and the content packs) expecting (because of advertising) a stream of improvements lasting over years, only to find out that those "improvements" involved removing key features that they particularly liked, only one year out. I am one of those people, and I can tell you that the idea of playing a static "dead-end" branch of the game is already starting to affect my attitude towards Stellaris as a whole. I'll get over it, of course (and move on to another game), but if 20% of the players who have commented in a similar fashion follow suit, will the Stellaris dev team survive in its current form? Corporate re-org 8-Ball says "doubtful -- check back later".

To be honest I think you're overestimating the number of people angry at the changes, and based on current coverage in games media, it's more likely to reinvigorate interest in the game from all the people who did not enjoy the combat system.
 

brifbates

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I think the reason was FAR from being that, it was much more about being half way done, and being a glorified spreadsheet.

I can only speak for myself, I quit playing it after 2 attempts at starting both resulted in me being pinned into a box between the guardian and some space dragons and such with no room to maneuver or expand. I didn't even play long enough to get tired of all the pop-out micro nonsense I saw so many complaints about on-line...
 

Avian Overlord

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Sure, we can stay at a known-problematic version which could, but won't, be substantially improved even without the changes so far advertised for 2.0.

But why would we, when there are other games to play?
So you want the game to change and the devs to improve it along their vision, but you also don't want the game to change. How very Zen.
 

Morven

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Sorry but that is the first Dev note that i absolute hate, Space Lanes in every space game so far make movements tedious and time consuming and Stellaris isnt much different in this. Space Lanes already getting the worst end of the stick when it comes to starting positions. Have a big Monster,Pirat,FA or whatever you cant beat in the first couple of years just means restart already.

Either go around or get access through other empires, it's not that hard. ;)
Honestly, the whole hysteria is mostly unfounded, in my opinion.
People make out hyperlanes to be something boring and yet I could never find the 'thrill' in using the other two (In fact, wormholes as ftl are slightly too good).

Personally, I seldom had a problem with expansion, using hyperlanes.
You mostly expand naturally in proximity to your starting position anyway and as long as you keep tabs on how your neighbors view you, they'll probably let you through.
Of course it might come different, which is why war is still an option.

Also, if I'm predicting it correctly, since you'll no longer be able to abuse border growth spam, it should become much easier to explore/expand without other empires always blocking you.
 

Varren

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The threat is not just that we will stop buying DLC updates for stellaris (which ultimately decides if stellaris keeps receiving funding or not) its that we may also decide to not buy anything from PDX. They are burning customer retention with this. To quote the end of a video rant about electronic art's business practices: In a world where money speaks, Silence is terrifying.

Are you honestly saying that you'd boycott all Paradox products just because you don't like Stellaris?
 

Chreees

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I can only speak for myself, I quit playing it after 2 attempts at starting both resulted in me being pinned into a box between the guardian and some space dragons and such with no room to maneuver or expand. I didn't even play long enough to get tired of all the pop-out micro nonsense I saw so many complaints about on-line...

Under the new system they're given the player the option to increase the number of hyperlanes, so you should be able to avoid those circumstances
 

brifbates

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These changes don't exisit in isolation, however they do help stop the doomstack problem because it means wars will start to have an actual frontline.

How does having to crack a front-line choke point defended by a fortress plus the enemy's fleet incentivize me not sending a doomstack to do it?

Especially when I know the only way they can come at me is from that same system....
 

Nippleworthy

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Who buys content packs other than "customers who have already paid"? Almost the entire revenue stream from this game probably comes from those add-on sales, not continuing sales of the original product. From comments I have read in the annual and quarterly reports, the "tail" on sales of a product is generally not that long...people grativate to the new thing that is coming along. So if you reduce your active users by 20%, you aren't making them up with new sales. Wiz and his team need, really need, the sales from content packs to support their continued employment. A 20% drop in those will be...not good.

DLC's, or free updates, are a service that PDX offers to entice more customers into the revenue stream overall, but when their updates start removing features and losing customers, they are also losing referral sales and recommendations (again, probably in that 20% range). The downstream revenue implications for that therefore track with the general statistical trend established thus far.

Ja I understand your point of view well. :) But I don't care these things! Sales, prices, profits ... pffft. Not my problem.
I really like the game as it is. I really do! But I think it can be much better. So I'm looking forward to an even better game.
 

HAL.9000.1

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To be honest I think you're overestimating the number of people angry at the changes, and based on current coverage in games media, it's more likely to reinvigorate interest in the game from all the people who did not enjoy the combat system.

And to be honest, I think you don't understand statistics. Because I took them in graduate school many years ago, used them for my entire business career, introduced many innovative analytical tools to colleagues who had not, and was never proven wrong in any of my predictions. Which, by the way, involved tens of millions of dollars for most of that time (budgeting for a $280 million subsidiary of a $5 billion corporation).
 
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brifbates

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Under the new system they're given the player the option to increase the number of hyperlanes, so you should be able to avoid those circumstances

And in the current version those who want to play choke point fortress can click the hyper-lane only option and be assured of getting what they want, not a vague "should be able to avoid the issue"...
 

Chreees

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How does having to crack a front-line choke point defended by a fortress plus the enemy's fleet incentivize me not sending a doomstack to do it?

Because it means that you're given up space somewhere else. Also the changes don't exist in isolation, they're almost certainly going to be other changes to complement these ones.
 

brifbates

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Because it means that you're given up space somewhere else. Also the changes don't exist in isolation, they're almost certainly going to be other changes to complement these ones.

Lolwut?

Being able to attack him from anywhere along the front at the target of my choosing is "giving me space somewhere else", forcing me down a known lane of attack is exactly the opposite...
 

Stupid Jerk

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I've never really liked Hyperlanes, as I felt it left you too much at the mercy of the RNG. Getting bad hyperlanes in your starting position could totally screw you over. However, the other changes alongside this make it sound like a genuinely appealing change. With more galaxy-gen options and secondary methods of travel available, I'm totally onboard with this. The sensor changes and terrain sound really neat as well.
 

Mrakvampire

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134 pages... wow

Look, guys, I really can't understand the backlash.
For more than a year already, actually from release it was a universal agreement that Stellaris have very badly implemented war and combat mechanic. A lot of us, me included, demanded from devs to start working on serious issues (lame war, lack of internal politics, lacking diplomacy, no trade) instead of feeding us irrelevant content that of course made game wider (new 'nations' to play), but not deeper.
Now devs FINALLY started to fix things that should have been fixed A YEAR AGO, and you start to backlash on them? There is a saying - better late than never.
I do really hope that Stellaris 2.0 (as devs call it) will finally have engaging and even remotely strategical wars (compared to garbage that we have now), and from what I've seen from dev diaries I'm really confident that these changes are the only way to fix wars and combat. You can't have a meaningful war system when you don't have underlying system of 'provinces' that is consistent within itself.
 

Chreees

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And to be honest, I think you don't understand statistics. Because I took them in graduate school many years ago, used them for my entire business career, introduced many innovative analytical tools to colleagues who had not, and was never proven wrong in any of my predictions. Which, by the way, involved tens of millions of dollars for most of that time (budgeting for a $200 million subsidiary of a $5 billion corporation).
And I'm the supreme commander of allied forces europe.
 

Cirrus Light

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I work retail and sell hard scapes. My profit margins on wall block patio brick ect, is 20%. If i just lost 20% potential sales that means at best I broke even
74%, not 80%. "Helpful" means they're interested in knowing about the changes and like to know. It's neutral in that it neither expresses a like or dislike. You take (agree / (agree + disagree + helpful)), not (agree + helpful) / (agree + helpful + disagree) - that will artificially inflate your number.

Also, this is all of those changes. Someone may love the gates and natural wormholes (they look pretty neat) - but it's entirely possible for those to exist in the current 3-FTL system. 74% like all those changes, as a whole, in that package. Some unknown, larger portion will dislike the FTL change but tolerate it for all the new stuff they're trumpeting.

Another 21% want to play 1.8.3, would rather have the current war, territory, and exploration and not these new gimmicks and keep the dynamic, open space Stellaris has to offer that its competitors do not.

And to be honest, I think you don't understand statistics. Because I took them in graduate school many years ago, used them for my entire business career, introduced many innovative analytical tools to colleagues who had not, and was never proven wrong in any of my predictions. Which, by the way, involved tens of millions of dollars for most of that time (budgeting for a $200 million subsidiary of a $5 billion corporation).
Seeing all your posts these last 2 days, I really want to see you like PM Wiz himself or write a letter or something...
 
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