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Stellaris Dev Diary #92: FTL Rework and Galactic Terrain

Hello everyone and welcome to another Stellaris development diary. Today's dev diary is about Faster than Light travel in the Cherryh update, and it's likely to be a controversial one. When discussing, please remember to keep things civil, and I would kindly ask that you read the entire dev diary before rushing to post, as it's going to cover some of the questions and concerns we expect to see from the playerbase. Also, as posted last week, all of these changes are currently far away, and we cannot give more details on ETAs or the exact nature of the Cherryh update than we already have. Thank you!

FTL Rework
The single biggest design issue we have had to tackle in the Stellaris team since release is the asymmetrical FTL. While it's a cool and interesting idea on paper, the honest truth is that the feature just does not fit well into the game in practice, and blocks numerous improvements on a myriad of other features such as warfare and exploration, as well as solutions to fundamental design problems like the weakness of static defenses. After a lot of debate among the designers, we finally decided that if we were ever going to be able to tackle these issues and turn Stellaris into a game with truly engrossing and interesting warfare, we would have to bite the bullet and take a controversial decision: Consolidating FTL from the current three types down into a primarily hyperlane-based game, with more advanced forms of FTL unlocked through technology.

However, as I have said on the previous occasions when discussing this issue, one thing we would never consider doing is just slashing FTL types from the game without adding in something else to compensate their loss. That is what most of this dev diary is going to be about. However, before continuing with the details on the additions and changes we're making to FTL, I want to cover a couple of the questions I expect will arise from this:

Why are you removing FTL choices instead of building on them?
A lot of people have asked this question when we have brought up consolidating FTL types before, suggesting that problems such as static defenses can be solved by just adding more mechanics to handle each special case. I think the problem with this is best illustrated with defense stations and FTL inhibitors. One of the aims of the Starbase system is to give empires the ability to 'lock down' their borders, building fortresses that enemy fleets cannot simply skip past to strike at their core worlds, instead of having to create static defenses in every single valuable system.

With hyperlanes, this is a pretty simple affair: As hyperlanes create natural choke points, the only thing a hyperlane-stopping FTL inhibitor needs to do is to prevent enemy fleets from leaving the system once they enter it. The fleet can enter, it can retreat (via emergency FTL) and it can bring down the source of the FTL inhibitor (which might be a Starbase or even a planet) to be able to continue. This is quite easy to understand, both in terms of which system you need to defend to lock down your borders, and how it works when you are on the offensive.

Now let's add Warp to the mix. In this case, the single-system FTL inhibitor is useless because Warp fleets can just go over it, so we'll invent another mechanic: A warp interdiction bubble, stretching a certain distance around the system, that pull in any hostile Warp fleets traveling there to the system containing the FTL inhibitor, and force them to battle it or retreat. This is immediately a lot more messy: First of all, this bubble can't possibly affect Hyperlane fleets, because it could potentially pull them dozens of jumps away from their current location. This means that when fortifying your borders, you now need to not just make sure that every important chokepoint is covered, but also that your entire border is covered in warp interdiction bubbles.

But there's more: Add Wormholes as well, and you now have an FTL type where not only the 'bubble' type interdictor doesn't make intuitive sense (because Wormhole fleets make point-to-point jumps rather than traveling over the map) but if said interdictor works to pull Wormhole fleets out of position regardless of what makes intuitive sense, you end up with the same probem as with hyperlanes, where the fleet can get pulled out of range of its wormhole network and end up stranded even if it brings down the defenses. This means you pretty much have to invent a third type of interdiction type for Wormhole on top of what is already an overengineered and hard to understand system.

Finally, add the problem of displaying all these different types of inhibitors and interdictors on the map, in a way that the player can even remotely start to understand, and you end up with nothing short of a complete mess, where it's far better to just have static defenses protecting single valuable systems... and so we come full circle.

This is the fundamental problem that we have been grappling with when it comes to asymmetrical FTL: What works in a game such as Sword of the Stars, with its turn-based gameplay, small maps of usually no more than 3-6 empires, and 1-on-1 wars breaks down completely in a Stellaris game with real-time gameplay and wars potentially containing a dozen actors, all with their own form of FTL. The complexity collapses into what is for the player just a mess of fleets appearing and disappearing with no discernible logic to them.

Why Hyperlanes?
When discussing this, we essentially boiled down the consolidation into three possibilities: Hyperlanes only, Warp-only, and Warp+Hyperlanes. Wormhole is simply too different a FTL type to ever really work with the others, and not intuitive enough to work as the sole starting FTL for everyone playing the game. Keeping both Warp and Hyperlanes would be an improvement, but would still keep many of the issues we currently have in regards to user experience and fleet coordination. Warp-only was considered as an alternative, but ultimately Hyperlanes won out because of the possibilities it opens up for galactic geography, static defenses and enhancements to exploration.

Here are the some of the possibilities that consolidation of FTL into Hyperlanes creates for Stellaris:
  • Unified distance, sensor and border systems that make sense for everyone (for example, cost of claiming a system not being based on euclidean distance but rather the actual distance for ships to travel there)
  • Galactic 'geography', systems that are strategically and tactically important due to location and 'terrain' (more on this below) rather than just resources
  • More possibilities for galaxy generation and exploration (for example, entire regions of space accessible only through a wormhole or a single guarded hyperlane, containing special locations and events to discover)
  • Better performance through caching and unified code (Wormhole FTL in particular is a massive resource hog in the late game)
  • Warfare with a distinct sense of 'theatres', advancing/retreating fronts and border skirmishes (more on this in future dev diaries)
Are all new forms of FTL free patch content?
Yes. Naturally we're not going to charge for any form of content meant to replace the loss of old FTL types.

Hyperlane and Sublight Travel
As mentioned, in the Cherryh update. all empires will now start the game with Hyperlanes as their only mode of FTL. By default, hyperlane generation is going to be changed to create more 'islands' and 'choke points', to make for more interesting galactic geography. However, as we know some players do not enjoy the idea of constricted space, we are going to add a slider that controls the general frequency and connectivity of hyperlanes. Turning this up will create a more connected galaxy and make it harder to protect all your systems with static defenses, for players who prefer something closer to the current game's Warp-style movement.

Sublight travel is also being changed somewhat, in the sense that you need to actually travel to the entry point to a particular hyperlane (the arrow inside a system) to enter it, rather than being able to enter any hyperlane from any point outside's a system's gravity well. This means that fleets will move in a more predictable fashion, and interdictions will frequently happen inside systems instead of nearly always being at the edge of them, in particular allowing for fleets to 'guard' important hyperlane entry/exit points. To compensate for the need to move across systems, sublight travel has been sped up, especially with more advanced forms of thrusters.
2017_11_02_2.png


FTL Sensors
Along with the change to FTL, we are also changing the way sensors work. Instead of simply being a circle radiating an arbitrary distance from a ship, station or planet, each level of sensors can now see a certain distance in FTL connections. For example, a ship with level 1 sensors (Radar) will only give sensor coverage of the same system that it is currently in, while a ship with level 2 (Gravitic) sensors will give sensor coverage of that system and all systems connected to it through a Hyperlane or explored Wormhole (more on that below), a ship with level 3 sensors will be able to see systems connected to those systems, and so on. Sensor coverage can be 'blocked' by certain galactic features (more on that below), which will also block propagation into further connected systems. We are currently discussing the implementation of sensor blockers as a potential Starbase component.
2017_11_02_1.png


Wormholes
While Wormhole as a full-fledged FTL type is gone, Wormholes are not. Instead they have been changed into a natural formation that can be encountered while exploring the galaxy. Wormholes come in pairs, essentially functioning as very long hyperlanes that can potentially take a ship across the entire galaxy near-instantly. Natural Wormholes are unstable, and when first encountered, you will not be able to explore them. To explore a Wormhole, you need the Wormhole Stabilization technology, after which a science ship can be sent to stabilize and chart the Wormhole to find out what lies on the other side. If you're lucky, this may be unclaimed space full of valuable systems, but it could just as well be a Devouring Swarm eager to come over for dinner. There is a slider on game setup that controls the frequency of wormhole pairs in the galaxy.
2017_11_02_4.png


Gateways
Gateways is an advanced form of FTL most closely resembling the Wormhole FTL in the live version of the game. While exploring the galaxy, you can find abandoned Gateways that were once part of a massive, galaxy-spanning network. These Gateways are disabled and unusable, but with the Gateway Reactivation mid-game technology and a hefty investment of minerals, they can be restored to working order. Like Wormholes, Gateways allow for near-instant travel to other Gateways, but the difference is that any activated Gateway can be used to travel to any other activated Gateway, and late-game technology allows for the construction of more Gateways to expand the network. Also unlike Wormholes, which cannot be 'closed', Gateways also have the advantage of allowing any empire controlling the system they're in to control who goes through said Gateway - hostile empires and empires to whom you have closed your borders will not be able to use 'your' Gateways to just appear inside of your systems.

When the first Gateway is re-activated, another random Gateway will also be re-activated along with it, so that there is never a situation where you just have a single active Gateway going nowhere. There is a slider on game setup that controls the frequency of abandoned gateways in the galaxy.
2017_11_02_8.png


Jump Drives
Jump Drives and Psi Jump Drives have been changed, and is now an advanced form of FTL that mixes Hyperdrive with some functionality from the old Warp FTL. They allow for a ship to travel normally and very quickly along hyperlanes, but also come equipped with a tactical 'jump' functionality that allows a fleet to make a point-to-point jump ignoring the normal hyperlane limitations. This is done with a special fleet order where you select a target system for the jump (within a certain pre-defined range, with Psi Jump Drives having longer range than regular Jump Drives), after which the fleet charges up its jump drive and creates a temporary wormhole leading to the system. After the fleet makes its 'jump', the Jump Drive will need to recharge, with a significant cooldown before it can be used again, and also applies a debuff to the fleet that reduces its combat effectiveness while the cooldown is in effect. This allows for fleets with Jump Drives to ignore the usual FTL restrictions and skip straight past enemy fleets and stations, but at the cost of leaving themselves vulnerable and potentially stranded for a time afterwards. This design is highly experimental, and may change during the development of Cherryh, but we wanted Jump Drives to not just be 'Hyperdrive IV' but rather to unlock new tactical and strategic possibilities for warfare.

Galactic Terrain
With the switch to Hyperlanes and the creation of strategically important systems and chokepoints, we've also decided to implement something we had always thought was a really interesting idea, but which made little sense without such chokepoints: Galactic Terrain. Specifically, systems with environmental effects and hazards that have profound tactical and strategic effects on ships and empires. This is still something we are in the middle of testing and prototyping, but so far we have created the following forms of Galactic Terrain:
Nebulas block all sensor coverage originating from other systems, meaning that it's impossible for an empire to see what ships and stations are inside a system in a nebula without having a ship or station stationed there, allowing empires to hide their fleets and set up ambushes.
Pulsars interfere with deflector technology, nullifying all ship and station shields in a system with a Pulsar.
Neutron Stars interfere with navigation and ship systems, significantly slowing down sublight travel in a system with a Neutron Star.
Black Holes interfere with FTL, increasing the time it takes for a fleet to charge its emergency FTL and making it more difficult to ships to individually disengage from combat (more on this in a later dev diary).

The above is just a first iteration, and it's something we're likely to tweak and build on more for both the Cherryh update and other updates beyond it, so stay tuned for more information on this.
2017_11_02_3.png

2017_11_02_5.png


That's all for today! I will finish this dev diary by saying that we do not expect everyone to be happy with these changes, but we truly believe that they are necessary to give Stellaris truly great warfare, and that we think you will find the game better for it once you get a chance to try them. We will be doing a Design Corner feature on today's Extraterrestial Thursday stream, where me and Game Designer Daniel Moregård (grekulf) will be discussing the changes, fielding questions and showing off some gameplay in the internal development build. If you want a look at some of these changes in a live game environment, be sure to tune to the Paradox Interactive twitch channel at 4pm CET.

Next week, we're going to talk about war and peace, including the complete rework of the current wargoal system that was made possible by the changes to FTL and system control discussed in this and last week's dev diary. See you then!
 
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Admiral Blue

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Aug 22, 2016
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Honestly, why do you guys just keep forcibly changing the game we bought? Some of us really don't like the change. Why can't you keep both system in the game and give us a choice whether we want to use the new system or the old one?

#Edit: Also newsflash: Space is vast. Assuming FTL is even possible in reality, there will just be *no way* to artifically wall off your interstellar empire with defenses. I loved that about Stellaris - that it was pretty believable and realistic, so to speak. With this update, you are essentially turning it into EU4 in space.
 
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John_Titor

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We can already have hyperlanes only games, this improves nothing. You are forcing players to play a specific game, you are reducing the amount of choice that currently exists in game and removing content we paid for when we bought the base game.

This dev diary is not about enforcing hyperlane-only in the current form. This is a rework on the entire FTL system as a base to improve many other aspects of the game. Wiz gave several reasons why it was not practical to keep all 3 starting FTL in order to accomplish this, and I think he has made a good argument. There has been a lot of content removed since you bought this game I wager. Were you up in arms about the loss of embassies? That made gaining relations much more convenient, but they had to go in order to address the diplomatic system (which, mind you, still needs addressing). PDX games are always in development and there is a massive and active mod community. I have no doubt there will be Warp/Wormhole starting FTL mods out.
 

Admiral Blue

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Just roll back the game and don't worry about it. It's equally as selfish to ask that the game remain the same in a broken state because you don't like having to be challenged.
So it's selfish to request the game to remain in the state I bought it? Hahaha, ok. Also I like being challenged and I actually used hyperlanes in my playthroughs. This removes strategic choices from the game. Also the game in its current state is definitely *not* broken.

Also, my point still stands - why force this upon us when you can present players with a choice? They could really make it work that way, if they wanted.
 

OverthinkingThis

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On one hand I want to put in a vocal vote to lock this thread, meaningful debate from newcomers to the comment page mean well but they're hitting on the same topics over and over. Meanwhile anyone still here from yesterday are just devolving.

Buuuuuut, I know what happens when you shut off the vent valve for a big change like this, it bursts out all across the forums like a huge zit being popped.

I'm conflicted.
 

Dementor4

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While I generally prefer Warp to Hyperlanes I do like the shenanigans that can be used with an all Hyperlane game.

That been said I expect it will be a bit more difficult to complete some of the Anomolies and missions than with other methods of FTL due to chokepoints. Sometimes I wish science ships were excluded from military access rules.

No man, starting an intergalactic war because you wanted to capture a space-panda for your zoo is perfectly legitimate.

I kind of whish there was a "pre-war ultimatum/parlay" system in place, a situation where you draw a line in the sand and make demands and the other guy can decide whether he wants to risk war over opening his borders for 10 years or demolishing that outpost or whatever. Silly that you can't actually make threats, you've got take it to the next level and start dropping bombs before anything can be accomplished.
 

Nsidious

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So it's selfish to request the game to remain in the state I bought it? Hahaha, ok. Also I like being challenged and I actually used hyperlanes in my playthroughs. This removes strategic choices from the game. Also the game in its current state is definitely *not* broken.

The game is not even close to the state that you bought it in unless you bought it right after the last update. And if that's the case, I don't think you should be on here talking about what should be what and how everything should work because you have no idea. Just roll back the game to 1.0 and play to your hearts content. You're as bad as legacy wow players.
 

Stormhawke

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Just roll back the game and don't worry about it. It's equally as selfish to ask that the game remain the same in a broken state because you don't like having to be challenged.
I like having to be challenged while using Warp, thank you very much. Just because you assume those who are against the change are for an 'OP' mechanic doesn't mean they are. Please stop asserting that they are.
 

treb

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I think this is why so many people are upset. We expected the other two techs to remain in some fashion, but warp is totally gone while wormholes work completely differently and are only buildable late game.

Wormholes are glorified hyperlanes, if I'm reading the dev diary right
 

Hype

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Just roll back the game and don't worry about it. It's equally as selfish to ask that the game remain the same in a broken state because you don't like having to be challenged.

This would be a great idea if they had ever released a version that didn't have major issues. 1.8 still has many bugs that will now never be resolved for people who don't like this change.
 

Admiral Blue

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The game is not even close to the state that you bought it in unless you bought it right after the last update. And if that's the case, I don't think you should be on here talking about what should be what and how everything should work because you have no idea. Just roll back the game to 1.0 and play to your hearts content. You're as bad as legacy wow players.

I bought this on day 1, thank you very much. Also of course me disagreeing with you is obviously offending to you, as you are getting all defensive. If I am "bad" as legacy wow players then you are nitpicky and arrogant to the fullest.
 

Foefaller

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Except as it has been said 50 times on this forum now...

If you make defenses powerful and worthwhile, and you limit where you can place them, you make them meaningful by not letting people warp/wormhole/jump around them, keeping them from becoming worthless. Ta-da. See why these changes are good and your argument is invalid?

How does that "not-jump-around-them" work? Warp makes most sense, big field that pulls nearby fleets into the system, but will it pull Hyperdrive out of their hyperlanes, possibly several jumps deeper into enemy territory than they had planned? or do you have to make sure the stations can be at places that are both Hyperlane chokepoints AND cover your empire's borders completely? And how do you inform the player about that? And what about Wormhole, which A.) makes no scene to be pulled out of wormholes and B.) could be pulled out of their empire's Wormhole network, meaning they even if they utterly destroy everything there, the defender still basically wins because that fleet (which, thanks to meaningfully powerful defenses are almost certainly a significant part of the empire's navy) are stuck unless they Emergency FTL and the other guy has free reign until they show up again? And before you think "that would happen maybe 5% of the time" that may be true... if you restrict the ability to overlap such fields, 'cause then I can set a string of stations to draw the wormhole/hyperspace guy further and further back until they've no choice but to E-FTL, (or just force warp/Jump empires to fight each and every one of my stations unless they are willing to E-FTL despite winning at all of these) which can create the gimmick problem of Warp/Jump/Wormhole travels being able to "thread" between these fields, which considering the regular EU4 threads about every time wonky stuff with the fort system happens, would not be seen as a good or okay thing.

So, you have to set your limited Defensive systems so they can cover your entire borders AND sit at all the hyperlane chokepoints into your systems while at the same time following any rules that are there to prevent any exploits that keep people from deliberately dragging Wormhole (or Hyperdrive, if you don't insist on the chokepoint thing) fleets out of their networks... at least, assuming PDX has the time, money and smarts to make all of this work for you relatively bug free to try it, of course.
 

Creamu

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If they can just go around them, they weren't placed well in the first place. Defenses being weak is the lion's share of the problem.

With free moving FTL you can go anywhere and everywhere. Unless you are able to erect super strong defenses on the vast majority of your border worlds for cheap, defenses are useless. But that would create a new problem.

In order to make defenses viable with the current method. Defenses would have to be both strong AND numerous. And that sounds frustrating beyond belief. Defenses become vastly overpowered in such a situation.
 

Tavior

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If you don't want chokepoints then TURN UP THE HYPERLANE CONNECTIVITY. If your complaint is that every empire is going to have these perfect chokepoints on every single border they could ever possibly have than you have an unrealistic view of what the game is going to be. Right now Doomstacks are 100% going to happen, you're telling me that you hate hyperlanes because there's a chance if everything goes exactly as you envision it that there will be doomstacks. How is this anything close to a valid argument?

Turning up the hyperlane number won't solve the inherit flaw that many of us don't want in Cherryh. Namely restricted and predicted movement system.

Furthermore it won't solve the fundamental problem of "I can fly more than 1000 million light years away from any nearest port and pretend that I can order a new cargo of tea to show up tomorrow" distance.
 

treb

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I bought this on day 1, thank you very much. Also of course me disagreeing with you is obviously offending to you, as you are getting all defensive. If I am "bad" as legacy wow players then you are nitpicky and arrogant to the fullest.

That comment is made all the more ironic since Blizzard just announced there doing legacy classic servers...
 

Clocknova

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Turning up the hyperlane number won't solve the inherit flaw that many of us don't want in Cherryh. Namely restricted and predicted movement system.

Furthermore it won't solve the fundamental problem of "I can fly more than 1000 million light years away from any nearest port and pretend that I can order a new cargo of tea to show up tomorrow" distance.

Well, if turning up hyperlane connectivity means that every system will be connected to every other system near it, then it will be kind of close. Then we just need to be able to make the damn lines invisible. I hate seeing those all over my maps.
 

Vikådin

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You can have meaningfull chokepoint and defense with wormhole, warp, lanes and any other not currently in the game travel types. Your only chokepoints is the planets, the colonies. Nobody cares for the empty +3 mineral per month system, destroy all my spacemines if you want, if I can defend my colonies, you failed as an invader, and reverse, i don't care if you defended all your spacemines, but lost your colonies, you just lost, xenoscum.

Have the ability to defend planets/colonies, and you have chokepoints, irrelevant of travel type, don't have the ability, and you will not have chokepoints, even if you forced to walk from star to star.

1: Using your definition of a planet as a "choke point" instead of an "objective" or a "capture point" is like saying putting your back against the wall is a "choke point" because you have nowhere else to go, and just proves to me you have absolutely no idea what a choke point or a bottle neck even is, have no idea about how to fight from fall-back points or what the purpose of choke-points, bottle necks, and any other such 'point' is. So let me explain it to you very simply. It is a point in space that is SEPARATE from the objective, where you force your enemy to FUNNEL IN (IE CANNOT GO AROUND FOR ONE REASON OR ANOTHER) so you can face them on your terms.

2: your method results in what we have now, deathstack VS deathstack = outcome. That's it. No strategy outside did you put rock, paper or scissors on your ships, and who has the higher number. If you have a big deathstack you warp in to any system, destroy the station, bombard it, and land armies. Just leap around, like a frog, boing boing boing, taking all these "chokepoint" planets of yours.

Actually I was going to keep going on and on but t'd medicine for the dead, you're incapable of making use of the logic I am trying to give you. Maybe Leonidas and his Spartans should have fought the Persians on open ground at Sparta. I'm sure he would have loved your definition of bottle neck. "If the invader takes the city then you lose! Nevermind the countryside that is supposedly yours, let them reave and pillage with impunity, they have failed so long as they don't take this particular city!"

Maybe he would have had better luck explaining to you the tactical advantages of terrain and bottlenecks and what it can mean for the outcome of the battle. Or maybe Xerses had a spaceship he used to fly over the cliffs (tiny hills, really) or Thermopolae to just land his armies in Sparta while Leonidas was still marching his way across Greece and the whole point would have been moot, what do I know

I wonder how long you could pay maintanence on your fleet if you literally just sat over one planet as a "choke point" while the enemy destroyed all your fleet capacity, minerals and energy creation. I suppose not having a fleet would lower your expenses considerably. Or maybe you think you can have enough of a fleet capacity right off the hop to spread it out and defend all your planets at the same time from the single consolidated force of your enemies invasion. Or maybe you think you could just move your one consolidated fleet around quickly enough to catch up to your enemies. Which as a wormhole player, I'd be really impressed to see because even I can't keep up sometimes. Maybe I'm wasting my time with all these words when what you really need is somebody to take you into the game and beat you senseless with the facts and reality of the existing system for you to really comprehend it. Give you a hard, unarguable lesson in the form of swift butt-kickings. Regardless, I look forward to the new system, and learning how to strategically outflank my enemies instead of depending on 2 or 4 death stacks blinking around playing "who has the bigger number". I look forward to "I need to take THAT system because of ..." and I look forward to "I need to defend this system because of..." and all the strategy and thought that will go into that. I look forward to the depth these changes will give this game.
 

brifbates

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With free moving FTL you can go anywhere and everywhere. Unless you are able to erect super strong defenses on the vast majority of your border worlds for cheap, defenses are useless. But that would create a new problem.

In order to make defenses viable with the current method. Defenses would have to be both strong AND numerous. And that sounds frustrating beyond belief. Defenses become vastly overpowered in such a situation.

In case you haven't noticed, throughout recorded history defenders have had an advantage. There's absolutely nothing wrong with strong and numerous defenses unless you're part of the instant gratification crowd. The whole point of defenses is to slow and frustrate attackers until they run out of supplies and withdraw or you can organize a telling counter-offensive.
 
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