• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
Status
Not open for further replies.

Stellaris Dev Diary #92: FTL Rework and Galactic Terrain

Hello everyone and welcome to another Stellaris development diary. Today's dev diary is about Faster than Light travel in the Cherryh update, and it's likely to be a controversial one. When discussing, please remember to keep things civil, and I would kindly ask that you read the entire dev diary before rushing to post, as it's going to cover some of the questions and concerns we expect to see from the playerbase. Also, as posted last week, all of these changes are currently far away, and we cannot give more details on ETAs or the exact nature of the Cherryh update than we already have. Thank you!

FTL Rework
The single biggest design issue we have had to tackle in the Stellaris team since release is the asymmetrical FTL. While it's a cool and interesting idea on paper, the honest truth is that the feature just does not fit well into the game in practice, and blocks numerous improvements on a myriad of other features such as warfare and exploration, as well as solutions to fundamental design problems like the weakness of static defenses. After a lot of debate among the designers, we finally decided that if we were ever going to be able to tackle these issues and turn Stellaris into a game with truly engrossing and interesting warfare, we would have to bite the bullet and take a controversial decision: Consolidating FTL from the current three types down into a primarily hyperlane-based game, with more advanced forms of FTL unlocked through technology.

However, as I have said on the previous occasions when discussing this issue, one thing we would never consider doing is just slashing FTL types from the game without adding in something else to compensate their loss. That is what most of this dev diary is going to be about. However, before continuing with the details on the additions and changes we're making to FTL, I want to cover a couple of the questions I expect will arise from this:

Why are you removing FTL choices instead of building on them?
A lot of people have asked this question when we have brought up consolidating FTL types before, suggesting that problems such as static defenses can be solved by just adding more mechanics to handle each special case. I think the problem with this is best illustrated with defense stations and FTL inhibitors. One of the aims of the Starbase system is to give empires the ability to 'lock down' their borders, building fortresses that enemy fleets cannot simply skip past to strike at their core worlds, instead of having to create static defenses in every single valuable system.

With hyperlanes, this is a pretty simple affair: As hyperlanes create natural choke points, the only thing a hyperlane-stopping FTL inhibitor needs to do is to prevent enemy fleets from leaving the system once they enter it. The fleet can enter, it can retreat (via emergency FTL) and it can bring down the source of the FTL inhibitor (which might be a Starbase or even a planet) to be able to continue. This is quite easy to understand, both in terms of which system you need to defend to lock down your borders, and how it works when you are on the offensive.

Now let's add Warp to the mix. In this case, the single-system FTL inhibitor is useless because Warp fleets can just go over it, so we'll invent another mechanic: A warp interdiction bubble, stretching a certain distance around the system, that pull in any hostile Warp fleets traveling there to the system containing the FTL inhibitor, and force them to battle it or retreat. This is immediately a lot more messy: First of all, this bubble can't possibly affect Hyperlane fleets, because it could potentially pull them dozens of jumps away from their current location. This means that when fortifying your borders, you now need to not just make sure that every important chokepoint is covered, but also that your entire border is covered in warp interdiction bubbles.

But there's more: Add Wormholes as well, and you now have an FTL type where not only the 'bubble' type interdictor doesn't make intuitive sense (because Wormhole fleets make point-to-point jumps rather than traveling over the map) but if said interdictor works to pull Wormhole fleets out of position regardless of what makes intuitive sense, you end up with the same probem as with hyperlanes, where the fleet can get pulled out of range of its wormhole network and end up stranded even if it brings down the defenses. This means you pretty much have to invent a third type of interdiction type for Wormhole on top of what is already an overengineered and hard to understand system.

Finally, add the problem of displaying all these different types of inhibitors and interdictors on the map, in a way that the player can even remotely start to understand, and you end up with nothing short of a complete mess, where it's far better to just have static defenses protecting single valuable systems... and so we come full circle.

This is the fundamental problem that we have been grappling with when it comes to asymmetrical FTL: What works in a game such as Sword of the Stars, with its turn-based gameplay, small maps of usually no more than 3-6 empires, and 1-on-1 wars breaks down completely in a Stellaris game with real-time gameplay and wars potentially containing a dozen actors, all with their own form of FTL. The complexity collapses into what is for the player just a mess of fleets appearing and disappearing with no discernible logic to them.

Why Hyperlanes?
When discussing this, we essentially boiled down the consolidation into three possibilities: Hyperlanes only, Warp-only, and Warp+Hyperlanes. Wormhole is simply too different a FTL type to ever really work with the others, and not intuitive enough to work as the sole starting FTL for everyone playing the game. Keeping both Warp and Hyperlanes would be an improvement, but would still keep many of the issues we currently have in regards to user experience and fleet coordination. Warp-only was considered as an alternative, but ultimately Hyperlanes won out because of the possibilities it opens up for galactic geography, static defenses and enhancements to exploration.

Here are the some of the possibilities that consolidation of FTL into Hyperlanes creates for Stellaris:
  • Unified distance, sensor and border systems that make sense for everyone (for example, cost of claiming a system not being based on euclidean distance but rather the actual distance for ships to travel there)
  • Galactic 'geography', systems that are strategically and tactically important due to location and 'terrain' (more on this below) rather than just resources
  • More possibilities for galaxy generation and exploration (for example, entire regions of space accessible only through a wormhole or a single guarded hyperlane, containing special locations and events to discover)
  • Better performance through caching and unified code (Wormhole FTL in particular is a massive resource hog in the late game)
  • Warfare with a distinct sense of 'theatres', advancing/retreating fronts and border skirmishes (more on this in future dev diaries)
Are all new forms of FTL free patch content?
Yes. Naturally we're not going to charge for any form of content meant to replace the loss of old FTL types.

Hyperlane and Sublight Travel
As mentioned, in the Cherryh update. all empires will now start the game with Hyperlanes as their only mode of FTL. By default, hyperlane generation is going to be changed to create more 'islands' and 'choke points', to make for more interesting galactic geography. However, as we know some players do not enjoy the idea of constricted space, we are going to add a slider that controls the general frequency and connectivity of hyperlanes. Turning this up will create a more connected galaxy and make it harder to protect all your systems with static defenses, for players who prefer something closer to the current game's Warp-style movement.

Sublight travel is also being changed somewhat, in the sense that you need to actually travel to the entry point to a particular hyperlane (the arrow inside a system) to enter it, rather than being able to enter any hyperlane from any point outside's a system's gravity well. This means that fleets will move in a more predictable fashion, and interdictions will frequently happen inside systems instead of nearly always being at the edge of them, in particular allowing for fleets to 'guard' important hyperlane entry/exit points. To compensate for the need to move across systems, sublight travel has been sped up, especially with more advanced forms of thrusters.
2017_11_02_2.png


FTL Sensors
Along with the change to FTL, we are also changing the way sensors work. Instead of simply being a circle radiating an arbitrary distance from a ship, station or planet, each level of sensors can now see a certain distance in FTL connections. For example, a ship with level 1 sensors (Radar) will only give sensor coverage of the same system that it is currently in, while a ship with level 2 (Gravitic) sensors will give sensor coverage of that system and all systems connected to it through a Hyperlane or explored Wormhole (more on that below), a ship with level 3 sensors will be able to see systems connected to those systems, and so on. Sensor coverage can be 'blocked' by certain galactic features (more on that below), which will also block propagation into further connected systems. We are currently discussing the implementation of sensor blockers as a potential Starbase component.
2017_11_02_1.png


Wormholes
While Wormhole as a full-fledged FTL type is gone, Wormholes are not. Instead they have been changed into a natural formation that can be encountered while exploring the galaxy. Wormholes come in pairs, essentially functioning as very long hyperlanes that can potentially take a ship across the entire galaxy near-instantly. Natural Wormholes are unstable, and when first encountered, you will not be able to explore them. To explore a Wormhole, you need the Wormhole Stabilization technology, after which a science ship can be sent to stabilize and chart the Wormhole to find out what lies on the other side. If you're lucky, this may be unclaimed space full of valuable systems, but it could just as well be a Devouring Swarm eager to come over for dinner. There is a slider on game setup that controls the frequency of wormhole pairs in the galaxy.
2017_11_02_4.png


Gateways
Gateways is an advanced form of FTL most closely resembling the Wormhole FTL in the live version of the game. While exploring the galaxy, you can find abandoned Gateways that were once part of a massive, galaxy-spanning network. These Gateways are disabled and unusable, but with the Gateway Reactivation mid-game technology and a hefty investment of minerals, they can be restored to working order. Like Wormholes, Gateways allow for near-instant travel to other Gateways, but the difference is that any activated Gateway can be used to travel to any other activated Gateway, and late-game technology allows for the construction of more Gateways to expand the network. Also unlike Wormholes, which cannot be 'closed', Gateways also have the advantage of allowing any empire controlling the system they're in to control who goes through said Gateway - hostile empires and empires to whom you have closed your borders will not be able to use 'your' Gateways to just appear inside of your systems.

When the first Gateway is re-activated, another random Gateway will also be re-activated along with it, so that there is never a situation where you just have a single active Gateway going nowhere. There is a slider on game setup that controls the frequency of abandoned gateways in the galaxy.
2017_11_02_8.png


Jump Drives
Jump Drives and Psi Jump Drives have been changed, and is now an advanced form of FTL that mixes Hyperdrive with some functionality from the old Warp FTL. They allow for a ship to travel normally and very quickly along hyperlanes, but also come equipped with a tactical 'jump' functionality that allows a fleet to make a point-to-point jump ignoring the normal hyperlane limitations. This is done with a special fleet order where you select a target system for the jump (within a certain pre-defined range, with Psi Jump Drives having longer range than regular Jump Drives), after which the fleet charges up its jump drive and creates a temporary wormhole leading to the system. After the fleet makes its 'jump', the Jump Drive will need to recharge, with a significant cooldown before it can be used again, and also applies a debuff to the fleet that reduces its combat effectiveness while the cooldown is in effect. This allows for fleets with Jump Drives to ignore the usual FTL restrictions and skip straight past enemy fleets and stations, but at the cost of leaving themselves vulnerable and potentially stranded for a time afterwards. This design is highly experimental, and may change during the development of Cherryh, but we wanted Jump Drives to not just be 'Hyperdrive IV' but rather to unlock new tactical and strategic possibilities for warfare.

Galactic Terrain
With the switch to Hyperlanes and the creation of strategically important systems and chokepoints, we've also decided to implement something we had always thought was a really interesting idea, but which made little sense without such chokepoints: Galactic Terrain. Specifically, systems with environmental effects and hazards that have profound tactical and strategic effects on ships and empires. This is still something we are in the middle of testing and prototyping, but so far we have created the following forms of Galactic Terrain:
Nebulas block all sensor coverage originating from other systems, meaning that it's impossible for an empire to see what ships and stations are inside a system in a nebula without having a ship or station stationed there, allowing empires to hide their fleets and set up ambushes.
Pulsars interfere with deflector technology, nullifying all ship and station shields in a system with a Pulsar.
Neutron Stars interfere with navigation and ship systems, significantly slowing down sublight travel in a system with a Neutron Star.
Black Holes interfere with FTL, increasing the time it takes for a fleet to charge its emergency FTL and making it more difficult to ships to individually disengage from combat (more on this in a later dev diary).

The above is just a first iteration, and it's something we're likely to tweak and build on more for both the Cherryh update and other updates beyond it, so stay tuned for more information on this.
2017_11_02_3.png

2017_11_02_5.png


That's all for today! I will finish this dev diary by saying that we do not expect everyone to be happy with these changes, but we truly believe that they are necessary to give Stellaris truly great warfare, and that we think you will find the game better for it once you get a chance to try them. We will be doing a Design Corner feature on today's Extraterrestial Thursday stream, where me and Game Designer Daniel Moregård (grekulf) will be discussing the changes, fielding questions and showing off some gameplay in the internal development build. If you want a look at some of these changes in a live game environment, be sure to tune to the Paradox Interactive twitch channel at 4pm CET.

Next week, we're going to talk about war and peace, including the complete rework of the current wargoal system that was made possible by the changes to FTL and system control discussed in this and last week's dev diary. See you then!
 
Last edited:
  • 1
  • 1
Reactions:

brifbates

Field Marshal
93 Badges
Mar 4, 2004
10.889
2.841
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • Warlock 2: The Exiled
  • 500k Club
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Pride of Nations
  • Sword of the Stars II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Deus Vult
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • March of the Eagles
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
Wormholes makes the defenses useless in the game anyway right now, even if this is the only FTL method.

Primarily because the defenses are pathetic, changing it so there's only one way to move doesn't alter why the defenses are useless. Games as far back as the original MoO had open movement systems but managed to have meaningful defenses available there's no reason at all the devs can't do the same.
 

Jervaise

Corporal
32 Badges
May 27, 2016
38
18
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Cities in Motion 2
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Cities: Skylines - Campus
  • Prison Architect
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife Pre-Order
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Magicka: Wizard Wars Founder Wizard
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
It seems that I've been responding here and there without really voicing my opinion, and I wanted to do that once.

I'll try to structure this in an easy to read manner:

+ Wiz and the team, keep up the good work. I found your explanations and direction interesting and promising.

+ I hope the changes will finally make way for more content patches after this rework. I want more content, less rework :)

- I hope you find a way to keep warp in the game for optional unbalanced usage for those who like it.

! Give me fleet template mechanics, I want to play more grand strategy less clicks galore

- Choke point system limits options and strategy and makes game less spacy in my opinion.

+ Nevertheless, I believe the game will become more fun through new mechanics.

! More empire customizations please, you need to bring immersion a level higher if asymmetrical FTL is gone.

! We need better resources, trade and better diplomacy for more strategy.

+++ Thanks for patiently listening to this thread and for communicating with us, wish you good luck

For a much better Stellaris :)
 

Stormhawke

Corporal
5 Badges
Jul 16, 2016
37
2
  • Stellaris
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Lead and Gold
Agree but, they are changing that and making defenses meaningful. And the ONLY way to do that without them being undermined by existing wormhole FTL is to change/remove it. "Valuable systems" can't be defended at present because you have to build defenses in THAT system otherwise the enemy will wormhole in around you. But with these changes (and the changes to wormhole) you will have systems that ARE valuable because of their position. Because they are a choke point, or because they defend your borders, and people can't just leap over them. Because they will have a terrain or whatever that is valuable to you. The point you're trying to make is undermined by what you are defending; ie in order to have defenses or valuable systems that have value at all is to rework/change the existing FTL. You complained about these things and they are fixing these things, but the only way to fix them is to remove the broken wormhole. You with me? Wormholes undermine value in systems and defenses. By removing wormholes as they exist you can fix those problems. Without removing wormholes as they exist you can NOT fix those problems. They explained some other things they looked at and tried in the dev diaries. This is the right way to go and I'm sorry to you and all my other fellow wormhole users, that is the truth.
I'm honestly okay with wormhole going the way it's currently going, to be honest. I never used them in the first place- found them too constraining in other aspects. And systems already have value based on what resources they produce for you, either with orbital platforms or colonies - don't need choke points for that, as such my point is not undermined by what I'm defending.
 

goodusername

Private
86 Badges
Apr 11, 2017
22
0
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44 Deluxe Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Surviving Mars
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Prison Architect
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
You can have meaningfull chokepoint and defense with wormhole, warp, lanes and any other not currently in the game travel types. Your only chokepoints is the planets, the colonies. Nobody cares for the empty +3 mineral per month system, destroy all my spacemines if you want, if I can defend my colonies, you failed as an invader, and reverse, i don't care if you defended all your spacemines, but lost your colonies, you just lost, xenoscum.

Have the ability to defend planets/colonies, and you have chokepoints, irrelevant of travel type, don't have the ability, and you will not have chokepoints, even if you forced to walk from star to star.

But having to defend 20+ start systems because they all have colonies is the opposite of a "choke point".
 

Thomas Gideon

Sergeant
30 Badges
May 27, 2016
91
31
  • Majesty 2
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris
  • Majesty 2 Collection
  • Magicka
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Prison Architect
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife Pre-Order
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
Except that you don't have to prevent people from traveling around them.
What you have to do is make taking over a defended location, is to make it IMPORTANT to take out a defended location. Less defended locations would be less important. Valuable, and they could give you an edge in a war, but you can't actually WIN the war without taking out the location with the strong defenses. Thus, you REQUIRE the confrontation to take place at the location with the defenses, WITHOUT requiring hyperlane travel.
 

Mathias Rex

Second Lieutenant
71 Badges
Jun 2, 2004
134
76
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • 500k Club
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Pride of Nations
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Knights of Honor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Crusader Kings II
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Heir to the Throne
  • March of the Eagles
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Semper Fi
  • Supreme Ruler 2020
  • Victoria 2
So you don't like the changes because it adds progression to the game instead of letting you just start with an immensely powerful and advantageous mode of travel that almost immediately equates to a military advantage?

This isn't progression. Progression is when you develope something further. In this case the devs will remove major elements from the game. By the way if you dont like the warp or wormhole than why don't you just turn off at the begining of the game in the setting menu? More over im curious if you let just the hyper drive technology in the game, the whole problem is gone? If yes, than why must this change? If it's annoying for anyone why not just switching it off at the beginning?
 

Nsidious

Private
76 Badges
Jan 24, 2017
18
0
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Semper Fi
  • Magicka
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • For the Motherland
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • BATTLETECH
  • Surviving Mars
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • War of the Roses
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Teleglitch: Die More Edition
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Magicka 2
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
You can have meaningfull chokepoint and defense with wormhole, warp, lanes and any other not currently in the game travel types. Your only chokepoints is the planets, the colonies. Nobody cares for the empty +3 mineral per month system, destroy all my spacemines if you want, if I can defend my colonies, you failed as an invader, and reverse, i don't care if you defended all your spacemines, but lost your colonies, you just lost, xenoscum.

Have the ability to defend planets/colonies, and you have chokepoints, irrelevant of travel type, don't have the ability, and you will not have chokepoints, even if you forced to walk from star to star.

Than what is the point of the game at all. What is the point of borders as we currently have them? So you're telling me that it's a feature of the game that I'm supposed to only be able to defend a handful of my systems and a real space faring people wouldn't think, "Hey, maybe I should just use this natural chokepoint here in this nebula to make it so the annihilators on my border can't just constantly destroy all of my natural resources."

I want to defend all of the planets that I have laid claim on because then I can take into consideration the concept of over-extending. What you're telling me is that you want to play a land war in asia for the whole game. Burn the crops, turtle on your colony so that you get sieged out and your pops die until the cavalry can arrive. That seems like a not fun way to play. Turtling into your colony is not a chokepoint and it never will be, I don't think you understand the meaning of the word chokepoint.
 

matt00

Private
2 Badges
Nov 3, 2017
20
0
  • BATTLETECH - Beta Backer
  • BATTLETECH - Backer
You should probably read the dev diary first. They're reworking the FTL system so that it's something you can actually build fun features off of. Instead of the whole thing being a hindrance. Besides they're literally adding in actually wormholes, cool Mass Effect-style jump gates, massive actually buff stations, and death-trap stars; silly to call it a downgrade./QUOTE]
I already red it. Still i want to be able to choose the FTL type. I also don't like prebuilt jump gates i hope there is an option to turn them off. But all the new features could still be added while leaving the others untoched. Before i start a game i like to have options to turn features on and of.

These changes will not bring any benefits to the game or make it sell more. After the last DLC a lot of people complaint about not adding new ship models.

As i said before i don't play this game for challenge, i play it as an sandbox. And i think a lot of people do play it too in this way.
I would love to see more updates to add more diversity more. More planet types and all the stuff mods do like adding more diversity in systems/planets.

To see what people really want they just have to take a look in the steam workshop.
 

Nsidious

Private
76 Badges
Jan 24, 2017
18
0
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Semper Fi
  • Magicka
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • For the Motherland
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • BATTLETECH
  • Surviving Mars
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • War of the Roses
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Teleglitch: Die More Edition
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Magicka 2
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
This isn't progression. Progression is when you develope something further. In this case the devs will remove major elements from the game. By the way if you dont like the warp or wormhole than why don't you just turn off at the begining of the game in the setting menu? More over im curious if you let just the hyper drive technology in the game, the whole problem is gone? If yes, than why must this change? If it's annoying for anyone why not just switching it off at the beginning?

By 'remove major elements from the game' do you mean incorporate those ideas into a more fun and comprehensive system of movement in the game that will allow for some level of strategy by giving you options to have an empire unified by a wormhole system and eventually create an intergalactic wormhole network, and also giving you the option to strategically bypass enemy defenses by warp with a risky maneuver? How terrible.
 

Monphat

Captain
15 Badges
Aug 26, 2014
380
1.040
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2
Did you not even read the dev diary? You just described the system they're implementing.
They're only removing warp, you can still unlock jump drives in the mid/late game. They're adding in natural wormholes and like mass effect relay type things as well. So they're doing what you said, start with hyperlanes-only but then over time you use a combination of hyperlanes, wormholes, gates, and jump drives.

It's not what I've described.

Their system involves static natural wormholes and megastructures to fill wormhole niche. My suggestion is concerned with regular wormholes, which would be dynamic and much more in control of the player.

Their system cuts off warp entirely. My suggestion places it in its own unique niche.

Their system turns jump drives in "fast hyperlanes with occasional jump." My suggestion keeps it efficient late tech FTL.
 
Last edited:

anomanderus

Field Marshal
55 Badges
Jan 26, 2010
3.719
562
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Semper Fi
  • Rome Gold
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Lost Empire - Immortals
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • For The Glory
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Imperator: Rome - Magna Graecia
  • Age of Wonders
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Magicka: Wizard Wars Founder Wizard
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • 500k Club
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
Yeah if you're removing features that I already paid for in the base game I can say I'm not going to buy this DLC. It makes no sense to remove features when the game menu already allows me to play "hyperlanes only" games and frankly I think you've lost sight of what you're doing- especially since you are removing content I already paid for when I bought the base game.
 

anomanderus

Field Marshal
55 Badges
Jan 26, 2010
3.719
562
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Semper Fi
  • Rome Gold
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Lost Empire - Immortals
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • For The Glory
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Imperator: Rome - Magna Graecia
  • Age of Wonders
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Magicka: Wizard Wars Founder Wizard
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • 500k Club
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
By 'remove major elements from the game' do you mean incorporate those ideas into a more fun and comprehensive system of movement in the game that will allow for some level of strategy by giving you options to have an empire unified by a wormhole system and eventually create an intergalactic wormhole network, and also giving you the option to strategically bypass enemy defenses by warp with a risky maneuver? How terrible.

No he means removing stuff we already paid for because apparently creating a better hyperlane system while leaving the option to have all forms of FTL enabled is too hard. If you are removing paid content then you have gone beyond the pale. This goes doubly so since we can already choose to have hyperlanes only games, doing this reduces the number of options available- it does not make the game better or truly add anything when you are removing content and forcing every game to be a hyperlanes only game.
 

John_Titor

Second Lieutenant
12 Badges
Oct 23, 2016
110
11
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Shadowrun: Hong Kong
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
Warp is gone completely, and wormholes remain in name only. A massive component isn't the same thing as the only component that matters. It comes down to a matter of preference. I and those like me value the open exploration created by warp and wormhole generators more than any possible improvement to combat created by their removal.

P.S. Sorry if this was already pointed out, this thread is enormous.

Combat is not the only thing that will be improved by this change, this may also lead to more meaningful exploration. I don't know how anyone can consider warp/wormhole by itself leading to better exploration. You're still just jumping from star to star hitting research on anomolies. It may be more convenient in some instances, like crossing a spiral arm, but in itself that's not a critical mechanic (for starting out, that is). If you play on spirals you should be good at diplomacy or conquering. For all we know, with max sliders there could be lanes between every arm of the spiral on every star. With a unified FTL system now we can have truly gated systems with treasures that can't be plundered until later in the game. There will be mysteries left in the universe so the late-game isn't just spamming science ships with auto-explore to scan the last few systems that you haven't checkboxed. That is not meaningful exploration, in fact it's very tedious and I wouldn't do it if I didn't have the Discovery tradition in most of my games. I am a person that loves the RP aspect of this game, and for that I am always sad to see creation diversity go, but I think this is a necessary change to build upon a system that will deliver a better experience. Mind you, I am only addressing your concerns about exploration, as Wiz and others have pointed out this can lead to improvement in many other areas of the game. I am more than willing to give the devs a chance and see how this turns out.
 

Mathias Rex

Second Lieutenant
71 Badges
Jun 2, 2004
134
76
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • 500k Club
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Pride of Nations
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Knights of Honor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Crusader Kings II
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Heir to the Throne
  • March of the Eagles
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Semper Fi
  • Supreme Ruler 2020
  • Victoria 2
By 'remove major elements from the game' do you mean incorporate those ideas into a more fun and comprehensive system of movement in the game that will allow for some level of strategy by giving you options to have an empire unified by a wormhole system and eventually create an intergalactic wormhole network, and also giving you the option to strategically bypass enemy defenses by warp with a risky maneuver? How terrible.

Belive it or not i like warp system and i can win with them. I ask again. If your opinion this isn't fair and good why don't you just autorize only hyper drive technology in the game settings at the beginning?
 

anomanderus

Field Marshal
55 Badges
Jan 26, 2010
3.719
562
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Semper Fi
  • Rome Gold
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Lost Empire - Immortals
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • For The Glory
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Imperator: Rome - Magna Graecia
  • Age of Wonders
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Magicka: Wizard Wars Founder Wizard
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • 500k Club
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
Combat is not the only thing that will be improved by this change, this may also lead to more meaningful exploration. I don't know how anyone can consider warp/wormhole by itself leading to better exploration. You're still just jumping from star to star hitting research on anomolies. It may be more convenient in some instances, like crossing a spiral arm, but in itself that's not a critical mechanic (for starting out, that is). If you play on spirals you should be good at diplomacy or conquering. For all we know, with max sliders there could be lanes between every arm of the spiral on every star. With a unified FTL system now we can have truly gated systems with treasures that can't be plundered until later in the game. There will be mysteries left in the universe so the late-game isn't just spamming science ships with auto-explore to scan the last few systems that you haven't checkboxed. That is not meaningful exploration, in fact it's very tedious and I wouldn't do it if I didn't have the Discovery tradition in most of my games. I am a person that loves the RP aspect of this game, and for that I am always sad to see creation diversity go, but I think this is a necessary change to build upon a system that will deliver a better experience. Mind you, I am only addressing your concerns about exploration, as Wiz and others have pointed out this can lead to improvement in many other areas of the game. I am more than willing to give the devs a chance and see how this turns out.

We can already have hyperlanes only games, this improves nothing. You are forcing players to play a specific game, you are reducing the amount of choice that currently exists in game and removing content we paid for when we bought the base game.
 

AresOfThrace

First Lieutenant
51 Badges
Jun 27, 2016
252
24
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Magicka
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • BATTLETECH: Season pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • BATTLETECH: Flashpoint
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Deluxe edition
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • BATTLETECH: Heavy Metal
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall - Revelations
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Imperator: Rome - Magna Graecia
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Field Marshal
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • BATTLETECH
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars Pre-Order
Because putting tons of defences on a chokepoint is such a stroke of strategic genius.
Knowing EXACTLY where the enemy is coming from makes the whole strategic aspect so much more challenging.

This^
 

LambTaco

Second Lieutenant
6 Badges
Aug 27, 2016
103
35
  • Stellaris
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
I am concerned by this change or rather by its implementation. Completely removing two other FTL types as they are from the game is not a good solution at all. I would’ve preferred both types to be kept in and unlocked as midgame technologies with all three methods having their own niche in the same nation.

Hyperlanes would be bread and butter for conventional fleets and civilian ships, warp (with hyperlane functionality) would be specialized, expensive way of travel that could allow science ships to access and explore hidden corners of space as well as a way for small elite fleets to circumvent enemy positions. Wormhole stations would be very expensive to build and maintain but would offer instant transfer of ships to any allied station becoming a game changer in later wars. Jump drives would be a very late tech around the time of crisis arrival and function as it is now.

So, the early game and early wars would follow hyperlane “terrain” model establishing basic structure of galactic political map with fortresses, neutral zones etc. Middle game will be about exploration and colonial wars in remote reaches of space (like British/French rivalry in North America and elsewhere) by small warp fleets as well as full scale wars of conventional fleets. Late game would see use of wormholes as a way of integrating remote regions of space and commencing strategic strikes against enemy. Jump drives would be very late tech that speeds up the game in face of crisis and awakened empires.

Did you not even read the dev diary? You just described the system they're implementing.

I think this is why so many people are upset. We expected the other two techs to remain in some fashion, but warp is totally gone while wormholes work completely differently and are only buildable late game.
 

Clocknova

Recruit
Nov 3, 2017
5
0
Noooooooo. Please, please don't do this. Or at least give us the option of using warp travel only. Freedom of movement is absolutely imperative to the enjoyment of this game. I absolutely cannot play a space 4X game that uses hyperlanes as the sole means of travel. I really don't want to give up this game, but this decision will force me to. Please reconsider.

Hopefully this update will be quickly followed by a mod that restores warp travel to the game. If not, I guess I'm done.
 
Last edited:

Creamu

Captain
53 Badges
Jan 22, 2016
498
697
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
Primarily because the defenses are pathetic, changing it so there's only one way to move doesn't alter why the defenses are useless. Games as far back as the original MoO had open movement systems but managed to have meaningful defenses available there's no reason at all the devs can't do the same.
Even if you make defenses better, it doesnt matter because people can just go around them anyway. Defenses being weak is only half the problem.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.