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Stellaris Dev Diary #92: FTL Rework and Galactic Terrain

Hello everyone and welcome to another Stellaris development diary. Today's dev diary is about Faster than Light travel in the Cherryh update, and it's likely to be a controversial one. When discussing, please remember to keep things civil, and I would kindly ask that you read the entire dev diary before rushing to post, as it's going to cover some of the questions and concerns we expect to see from the playerbase. Also, as posted last week, all of these changes are currently far away, and we cannot give more details on ETAs or the exact nature of the Cherryh update than we already have. Thank you!

FTL Rework
The single biggest design issue we have had to tackle in the Stellaris team since release is the asymmetrical FTL. While it's a cool and interesting idea on paper, the honest truth is that the feature just does not fit well into the game in practice, and blocks numerous improvements on a myriad of other features such as warfare and exploration, as well as solutions to fundamental design problems like the weakness of static defenses. After a lot of debate among the designers, we finally decided that if we were ever going to be able to tackle these issues and turn Stellaris into a game with truly engrossing and interesting warfare, we would have to bite the bullet and take a controversial decision: Consolidating FTL from the current three types down into a primarily hyperlane-based game, with more advanced forms of FTL unlocked through technology.

However, as I have said on the previous occasions when discussing this issue, one thing we would never consider doing is just slashing FTL types from the game without adding in something else to compensate their loss. That is what most of this dev diary is going to be about. However, before continuing with the details on the additions and changes we're making to FTL, I want to cover a couple of the questions I expect will arise from this:

Why are you removing FTL choices instead of building on them?
A lot of people have asked this question when we have brought up consolidating FTL types before, suggesting that problems such as static defenses can be solved by just adding more mechanics to handle each special case. I think the problem with this is best illustrated with defense stations and FTL inhibitors. One of the aims of the Starbase system is to give empires the ability to 'lock down' their borders, building fortresses that enemy fleets cannot simply skip past to strike at their core worlds, instead of having to create static defenses in every single valuable system.

With hyperlanes, this is a pretty simple affair: As hyperlanes create natural choke points, the only thing a hyperlane-stopping FTL inhibitor needs to do is to prevent enemy fleets from leaving the system once they enter it. The fleet can enter, it can retreat (via emergency FTL) and it can bring down the source of the FTL inhibitor (which might be a Starbase or even a planet) to be able to continue. This is quite easy to understand, both in terms of which system you need to defend to lock down your borders, and how it works when you are on the offensive.

Now let's add Warp to the mix. In this case, the single-system FTL inhibitor is useless because Warp fleets can just go over it, so we'll invent another mechanic: A warp interdiction bubble, stretching a certain distance around the system, that pull in any hostile Warp fleets traveling there to the system containing the FTL inhibitor, and force them to battle it or retreat. This is immediately a lot more messy: First of all, this bubble can't possibly affect Hyperlane fleets, because it could potentially pull them dozens of jumps away from their current location. This means that when fortifying your borders, you now need to not just make sure that every important chokepoint is covered, but also that your entire border is covered in warp interdiction bubbles.

But there's more: Add Wormholes as well, and you now have an FTL type where not only the 'bubble' type interdictor doesn't make intuitive sense (because Wormhole fleets make point-to-point jumps rather than traveling over the map) but if said interdictor works to pull Wormhole fleets out of position regardless of what makes intuitive sense, you end up with the same probem as with hyperlanes, where the fleet can get pulled out of range of its wormhole network and end up stranded even if it brings down the defenses. This means you pretty much have to invent a third type of interdiction type for Wormhole on top of what is already an overengineered and hard to understand system.

Finally, add the problem of displaying all these different types of inhibitors and interdictors on the map, in a way that the player can even remotely start to understand, and you end up with nothing short of a complete mess, where it's far better to just have static defenses protecting single valuable systems... and so we come full circle.

This is the fundamental problem that we have been grappling with when it comes to asymmetrical FTL: What works in a game such as Sword of the Stars, with its turn-based gameplay, small maps of usually no more than 3-6 empires, and 1-on-1 wars breaks down completely in a Stellaris game with real-time gameplay and wars potentially containing a dozen actors, all with their own form of FTL. The complexity collapses into what is for the player just a mess of fleets appearing and disappearing with no discernible logic to them.

Why Hyperlanes?
When discussing this, we essentially boiled down the consolidation into three possibilities: Hyperlanes only, Warp-only, and Warp+Hyperlanes. Wormhole is simply too different a FTL type to ever really work with the others, and not intuitive enough to work as the sole starting FTL for everyone playing the game. Keeping both Warp and Hyperlanes would be an improvement, but would still keep many of the issues we currently have in regards to user experience and fleet coordination. Warp-only was considered as an alternative, but ultimately Hyperlanes won out because of the possibilities it opens up for galactic geography, static defenses and enhancements to exploration.

Here are the some of the possibilities that consolidation of FTL into Hyperlanes creates for Stellaris:
  • Unified distance, sensor and border systems that make sense for everyone (for example, cost of claiming a system not being based on euclidean distance but rather the actual distance for ships to travel there)
  • Galactic 'geography', systems that are strategically and tactically important due to location and 'terrain' (more on this below) rather than just resources
  • More possibilities for galaxy generation and exploration (for example, entire regions of space accessible only through a wormhole or a single guarded hyperlane, containing special locations and events to discover)
  • Better performance through caching and unified code (Wormhole FTL in particular is a massive resource hog in the late game)
  • Warfare with a distinct sense of 'theatres', advancing/retreating fronts and border skirmishes (more on this in future dev diaries)
Are all new forms of FTL free patch content?
Yes. Naturally we're not going to charge for any form of content meant to replace the loss of old FTL types.

Hyperlane and Sublight Travel
As mentioned, in the Cherryh update. all empires will now start the game with Hyperlanes as their only mode of FTL. By default, hyperlane generation is going to be changed to create more 'islands' and 'choke points', to make for more interesting galactic geography. However, as we know some players do not enjoy the idea of constricted space, we are going to add a slider that controls the general frequency and connectivity of hyperlanes. Turning this up will create a more connected galaxy and make it harder to protect all your systems with static defenses, for players who prefer something closer to the current game's Warp-style movement.

Sublight travel is also being changed somewhat, in the sense that you need to actually travel to the entry point to a particular hyperlane (the arrow inside a system) to enter it, rather than being able to enter any hyperlane from any point outside's a system's gravity well. This means that fleets will move in a more predictable fashion, and interdictions will frequently happen inside systems instead of nearly always being at the edge of them, in particular allowing for fleets to 'guard' important hyperlane entry/exit points. To compensate for the need to move across systems, sublight travel has been sped up, especially with more advanced forms of thrusters.
2017_11_02_2.png


FTL Sensors
Along with the change to FTL, we are also changing the way sensors work. Instead of simply being a circle radiating an arbitrary distance from a ship, station or planet, each level of sensors can now see a certain distance in FTL connections. For example, a ship with level 1 sensors (Radar) will only give sensor coverage of the same system that it is currently in, while a ship with level 2 (Gravitic) sensors will give sensor coverage of that system and all systems connected to it through a Hyperlane or explored Wormhole (more on that below), a ship with level 3 sensors will be able to see systems connected to those systems, and so on. Sensor coverage can be 'blocked' by certain galactic features (more on that below), which will also block propagation into further connected systems. We are currently discussing the implementation of sensor blockers as a potential Starbase component.
2017_11_02_1.png


Wormholes
While Wormhole as a full-fledged FTL type is gone, Wormholes are not. Instead they have been changed into a natural formation that can be encountered while exploring the galaxy. Wormholes come in pairs, essentially functioning as very long hyperlanes that can potentially take a ship across the entire galaxy near-instantly. Natural Wormholes are unstable, and when first encountered, you will not be able to explore them. To explore a Wormhole, you need the Wormhole Stabilization technology, after which a science ship can be sent to stabilize and chart the Wormhole to find out what lies on the other side. If you're lucky, this may be unclaimed space full of valuable systems, but it could just as well be a Devouring Swarm eager to come over for dinner. There is a slider on game setup that controls the frequency of wormhole pairs in the galaxy.
2017_11_02_4.png


Gateways
Gateways is an advanced form of FTL most closely resembling the Wormhole FTL in the live version of the game. While exploring the galaxy, you can find abandoned Gateways that were once part of a massive, galaxy-spanning network. These Gateways are disabled and unusable, but with the Gateway Reactivation mid-game technology and a hefty investment of minerals, they can be restored to working order. Like Wormholes, Gateways allow for near-instant travel to other Gateways, but the difference is that any activated Gateway can be used to travel to any other activated Gateway, and late-game technology allows for the construction of more Gateways to expand the network. Also unlike Wormholes, which cannot be 'closed', Gateways also have the advantage of allowing any empire controlling the system they're in to control who goes through said Gateway - hostile empires and empires to whom you have closed your borders will not be able to use 'your' Gateways to just appear inside of your systems.

When the first Gateway is re-activated, another random Gateway will also be re-activated along with it, so that there is never a situation where you just have a single active Gateway going nowhere. There is a slider on game setup that controls the frequency of abandoned gateways in the galaxy.
2017_11_02_8.png


Jump Drives
Jump Drives and Psi Jump Drives have been changed, and is now an advanced form of FTL that mixes Hyperdrive with some functionality from the old Warp FTL. They allow for a ship to travel normally and very quickly along hyperlanes, but also come equipped with a tactical 'jump' functionality that allows a fleet to make a point-to-point jump ignoring the normal hyperlane limitations. This is done with a special fleet order where you select a target system for the jump (within a certain pre-defined range, with Psi Jump Drives having longer range than regular Jump Drives), after which the fleet charges up its jump drive and creates a temporary wormhole leading to the system. After the fleet makes its 'jump', the Jump Drive will need to recharge, with a significant cooldown before it can be used again, and also applies a debuff to the fleet that reduces its combat effectiveness while the cooldown is in effect. This allows for fleets with Jump Drives to ignore the usual FTL restrictions and skip straight past enemy fleets and stations, but at the cost of leaving themselves vulnerable and potentially stranded for a time afterwards. This design is highly experimental, and may change during the development of Cherryh, but we wanted Jump Drives to not just be 'Hyperdrive IV' but rather to unlock new tactical and strategic possibilities for warfare.

Galactic Terrain
With the switch to Hyperlanes and the creation of strategically important systems and chokepoints, we've also decided to implement something we had always thought was a really interesting idea, but which made little sense without such chokepoints: Galactic Terrain. Specifically, systems with environmental effects and hazards that have profound tactical and strategic effects on ships and empires. This is still something we are in the middle of testing and prototyping, but so far we have created the following forms of Galactic Terrain:
Nebulas block all sensor coverage originating from other systems, meaning that it's impossible for an empire to see what ships and stations are inside a system in a nebula without having a ship or station stationed there, allowing empires to hide their fleets and set up ambushes.
Pulsars interfere with deflector technology, nullifying all ship and station shields in a system with a Pulsar.
Neutron Stars interfere with navigation and ship systems, significantly slowing down sublight travel in a system with a Neutron Star.
Black Holes interfere with FTL, increasing the time it takes for a fleet to charge its emergency FTL and making it more difficult to ships to individually disengage from combat (more on this in a later dev diary).

The above is just a first iteration, and it's something we're likely to tweak and build on more for both the Cherryh update and other updates beyond it, so stay tuned for more information on this.
2017_11_02_3.png

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That's all for today! I will finish this dev diary by saying that we do not expect everyone to be happy with these changes, but we truly believe that they are necessary to give Stellaris truly great warfare, and that we think you will find the game better for it once you get a chance to try them. We will be doing a Design Corner feature on today's Extraterrestial Thursday stream, where me and Game Designer Daniel Moregård (grekulf) will be discussing the changes, fielding questions and showing off some gameplay in the internal development build. If you want a look at some of these changes in a live game environment, be sure to tune to the Paradox Interactive twitch channel at 4pm CET.

Next week, we're going to talk about war and peace, including the complete rework of the current wargoal system that was made possible by the changes to FTL and system control discussed in this and last week's dev diary. See you then!
 
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Vikådin

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I disagree with your comments about hyperlanes, not because I think the arguments you've used are invalid, but simply because, regardless of that, my preference is to play warp.

The reason I selectively quoted one part of your post is because it illustrates quite well the way people can have two perfectly valid opinions about something, which is simply based on a preference. You see I never play ironman, and from your comments I would infer that you probably think I am playing a game without consequence. But, in fact, I've never reloaded a game once started. Subject to the occasional crash, I play every game until I either win or decide to stop. So I don't need to use ironman to avoid reloads, and my decisions are for me just as consequential as yours.

RE: My choice to only Ironman bc consequences

Yeah I'll be honest, when improbable ceramics fails after I waited until I had a scientist who COULD NOT FAIL IT, or that planet spontaneously terraforms to a toxic world that kills all the people I just sent there, or that damned Gargantua black hole calculator tells me not to try and break into it.... I totally would save skim. Critical failure on that 5% fail rate anomoly your favourite bestest scientist in the world was doing? My fleet missed catching up to that enemy fleet by a fraction of a second before they warped out and now I'm on warp CD while they destroy all my spaceports? Yeah, reload... I don't have the self control not to at those moments

I also prefer wormhole. I honestly cannot think of a single thing I LIKE about hyperdrive. We're in total agreement.

So my argument is not anti-wormhole or anti-warp and instead pro-changes to the system. And for me it boils down to that feeling I had when I was first playing stellaris and first exploring my first galaxy and I saw that patch of nebulae in space that said it affected FTL travel and I got SUPER giddy. And then I was dissapointed when I discovered the 'terrain' didn't work or do anything. And when I heard about this changes I was pretty against them. Watched vids and read the dev dairies twice. But in the end I have to face an undeniable fact: I cannot have wormholes as they exist now, and get the meaning and enjoyment out of galactic terrain, static defenses or borders. I can't have both. Wormholes as they exist undermine key things in the game I REALLY want and think are needed. I had to face the reality of choosing between existing FTL travels and NO terrain, static defense or meaningful borders, OR I could alter the FTL and finally have all those things in the game actually have meaning and have uses.

Just for example, the comment the devs made about pulsar stars disabling shields. That is a really cool thing to have to consider in a battle that could tip it for the player who uses it to their advantage, and adds something other than sheer numerical deathstack value to space warfare. It means you could potentially ambush that stronger enemy in a setting you could win, instead of just throwing numerical value against numerical value with the higher value winning. You could be ambushed. It creates decisions and obstacles and options, it creates more layers and depth to a combat system that frankly, is lacking in tactical regards. Terrain is SUPER needed to this game, and you can't have meaningful terrain if you can just blink around it. That's the bottom line.

You can't have meaningful borders, meaningful terrain, meaningful defenses, choke points, ambush points, defensible points, key systems to hold/assault/take/defend, you can't have ANY of that so long as one can simply choose worm hole generators and leap over 3-8 systems. And I would be up in arms if they had removed it COMPLETELY from the game but they didn't. They left jump drives and psi drives and created stargate wormholes and wormholes that act like space tubes/space tunnels and all of these things are unlockable and obtainable and something to race towards because having it will be that much more of an advantage.

I am upvoting your comment because I respectfully agree with our right to disagree on this stance, and I don't think you're wrong. I just think these changes are going to be really healthy and positive for the game, and am willing to sacrifice my personal preference (wormhole generators) of FTL in order to realize a lot of the undermined potential I feel is in this game. This to me seems like a quality of life patch, not a quantity patch. And I support it.

Thanks for your post and the frank discussion. We need to be able to disagree and dissent in order to have intellectual discussion.
 
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Stormhawke

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Wormholes makes the defenses useless in the game anyway right now, even if this is the only FTL method.
Let's be honest: the current defenses being pushovers to a half-decent fleet are what make defenses useless in the game right now, regardless of FTL type. If they were capable of surviving at least long enough for reinforcements to arrive, and were placed to cover valuable systems, they'd have value, even if it's as a deterrent from hitting your more important worlds.
 

Vikådin

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If you truly believe that the game is going to be worse because you can't cheese wormhole a war then maybe you're just shit at the game. You can keep yelling about Sins of a Solar Empire but the things you're saying don't align with reality. You want improved gameplay with more choices yet you cling to the absolutely broken system that currently makes it so that there is no strategic choice whatsoever. If your brain can't wrap around the fact that this is a precursor to an overall BETTER system because the one currently being used has been stretched to it's absolute limit then I don't really know what to say to you, you're being extremely shortsighted and I refuse to believe that anyone has that strong of an opinion on FICTIONAL HYPERLANE TRAVEL that they won't play this game because of it. I could understand your reasoning if the only form of space travel in the next update was a black magic alien orgy that powered up your jump drives through the power of sex but hyperlanes? What is the problem with hyperlanes except you can't cheese? I have never met anyone that has played Stellaris competently that has ever said, "oh yeah I love using warp", that way I can be the slowest empire in the entire galaxy and watch as a wormhole empire just blinks into my home system and destroys me as my entire fleet is busy twiddling their thumbs for the next three months in empty space."

I could not have said it better. I either would have been more blunt and been banned from the forums, or less blunt and not got the "get better, noob" point across. I LOVE wormhole, but I agree with your comment 100%
 

Monphat

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On the one hand, I am not really affected because I prefer hyperlane-only setups pretty much for the same reasons as it was described here. This setup is easy to understand and manage, AI doesn’t struggle as much, it adds strategic elements to the warfare and is overall much more convenient.

On the other hand, I am concerned by this change or rather by its implementation. Completely removing two other FTL types as they are from the game is not a good solution at all. I would’ve preferred both types to be kept in and unlocked as midgame technologies with all three methods having their own niche in the same nation.

Hyperlanes would be bread and butter for conventional fleets and civilian ships, warp (with hyperlane functionality) would be specialized, expensive way of travel that could allow science ships to access and explore hidden corners of space as well as a way for small elite fleets to circumvent enemy positions. Wormhole stations would be very expensive to build and maintain but would offer instant transfer of ships to any allied station becoming a game changer in later wars. Jump drives would be a very late tech around the time of crisis arrival and function as it is now.

So, the early game and early wars would follow hyperlane “terrain” model establishing basic structure of galactic political map with fortresses, neutral zones etc. Middle game will be about exploration and colonial wars in remote reaches of space (like British/French rivalry in North America and elsewhere) by small warp fleets as well as full scale wars of conventional fleets. Late game would see use of wormholes as a way of integrating remote regions of space and commencing strategic strikes against enemy. Jump drives would be very late tech that speeds up the game in face of crisis and awakened empires.

This would offer a lot of interesting scenarios. You can go mostly hyperlane all game and just brute your way through defenses by cheap fleets at expense of treasures hidden in space. You can use a lot of small warp fleets, improving your versatility during war as well as becoming a strong contender for remote space at the cost of brute strength. You can lay low and invest it all in wormholes gaining amazing mobility and reconnaissance capabilities at expense of slower initial expansion. Or you can juggle it all to make most use of each for each given moment.
 

TheAtreides84

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It seems hyperlanes are a sad necessity of space 4X game design in this day and age, till more advanced mechanics and better AI are conceived. While I'll reserve my judgement till the day the update is deployed, I commend the devs for admitting their original vision was flawed. This isn't an easy thing to do, ever.
 

Boygor

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Let's be honest: the current defenses being pushovers to a half-decent fleet are what make defenses useless in the game right now, regardless of FTL type. If they were capable of surviving at least long enough for reinforcements to arrive, and were placed to cover valuable systems, they'd have value, even if it's as a deterrent from hitting your more important worlds.

Yeah I'd agree the defence stations needed a big buff. More slots - lots more slots.
 

Foefaller

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Let's be honest: the current defenses being pushovers to a half-decent fleet are what make defenses useless in the game right now, regardless of FTL type. If they were capable of surviving at least long enough for reinforcements to arrive, and were placed to cover valuable systems, they'd have value, even if it's as a deterrent from hitting your more important worlds.

Actually it's a self-reinforcing cycle: To make powerful defenses worthwhile when an opponent can go anywhere, you have to be able to place them in every system (or at least, every system of value)... but if you can place them in every system, you can't make them powerful, otherwise it would become tedious bordering on impossible to go through it all while dealing with enemy fleets et al... so you make them powerful, you have to limit where you can place them... which means the enemy can just warp/wormhole/jump around them, making them worthless in a different way.
 

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I could not have said it better. I either would have been more blunt and been banned from the forums, or less blunt and not got the "get better, noob" point across. I LOVE wormhole, but I agree with your comment 100%


What of that appies to people who dont pay agressive but like the other options for quick expansion and colonizing enclaves over the other side of the galaxy?
 

grommile

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You should probably read the dev diary first. They're reworking the FTL system so that it's something you can actually build fun features off of.
Saying "but they're adding a bunch of cool new kinds of hyperlane" does nothing to mitigate the whole hyperlaneyness of the situation.
 

Boygor

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Actually it's a self-reinforcing cycle: To make powerful defenses worthwhile when an opponent can go anywhere, you have to be able to place them in every system (or at least, every system of value)... but if you can place them in every system, you can't make them powerful, otherwise it would become tedious bordering on impossible to go through it all while dealing with enemy fleets et al... so you make them powerful, you have to limit where you can place them... which means the enemy can just warp/wormhole/jump around them, making them worthless in a different way.

Well, I dunno, restrict the most massive defensive structures to core systems? Good advantage for playing tall no?
 

Mohreb

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I dislike the changes:
We already had hyperlane only mode.
As well as 3 others (wormhole only warp only and faction) and I liked to play each of them. They had all different feel to them.
Now we will have 1 feel instead of 4. For some new features (which could honestly worked with the rest, worse case scenario they work best with hyper only, then make that default)
But no no no. Paradox choose to go with the lasy solution.
I would have preferred Victoria like politics. That would be a plus. But why does stellaris be all about warfare? Internal politics, diversity, choices would make the game feel more alive.
Instead we got a warfare simulator with those pesky "balance" thingies in it.
As if we would care about balance in other Paradox titles (sory to say England is op in Victoria, hope that issue will be fixed to :/)
 

Vikådin

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Let's be honest: the current defenses being pushovers to a half-decent fleet are what make defenses useless in the game right now, regardless of FTL type. If they were capable of surviving at least long enough for reinforcements to arrive, and were placed to cover valuable systems, they'd have value, even if it's as a deterrent from hitting your more important worlds.

Agree but, they are changing that and making defenses meaningful. And the ONLY way to do that without them being undermined by existing wormhole FTL is to change/remove it. "Valuable systems" can't be defended at present because you have to build defenses in THAT system otherwise the enemy will wormhole in around you. But with these changes (and the changes to wormhole) you will have systems that ARE valuable because of their position. Because they are a choke point, or because they defend your borders, and people can't just leap over them. Because they will have a terrain or whatever that is valuable to you. The point you're trying to make is undermined by what you are defending; ie in order to have defenses or valuable systems that have value at all is to rework/change the existing FTL. You complained about these things and they are fixing these things, but the only way to fix them is to remove the broken wormhole. You with me? Wormholes undermine value in systems and defenses. By removing wormholes as they exist you can fix those problems. Without removing wormholes as they exist you can NOT fix those problems. They explained some other things they looked at and tried in the dev diaries. This is the right way to go and I'm sorry to you and all my other fellow wormhole users, that is the truth.
 

Verenti

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Hang on, let me see if I am reading this correctly... "Remove Tech, different weapon types, influence, goverment types, unlimited leaders". So basically, you want a very boring game with no choices at all?

If there is a right choice, then there wasn't any choice to begin with.

I didn't say "remove tech", I said remove the tech deck. Replace it with a standard tech tree. The current design doesn't work, and we know that by the number of work-arounds that exist in other parts of the design. Half of the game consists of systems designed to mitigate the tech deck. The tech deck actually removes player choice by preventing you from actually guiding your empire in a direction you want to play. Therefore exists traditions: to mitigate SOME of the randomness of the tech deck.

Actually, the tech deck is more linear than most suspect, but you only can really know this if you dig through the files. Which is the major problem of Stellaris. The game has rules it expects you to know to play well, but it won't tell you. There is an ideal formation of mostly everything, but you'll never really find out what that is unless you are one of those people who likes to tediously test everything out. So you never really had a choice in Stellaris. You can chose to play the game "wrong", but there was always a singular right answer. By stripping out some of the superficial systems and bringing it back to basics you actually give the player control because the systems they have to strategise and play with aren't impossibly opaque.

Also, I said the governments should be more open. E.g. you should be able to be a merocratic dicatorship or a feudal democracy. This is giving the player more choice and more accurately reflects reality. With governments and society, Pdx has demonstrated an atrocious lack of imagination. They rule out societies that have existed on Earth, because they do not currently exist. e.g. Liberal Empires of the 19th century. To rule out societies that human history has demonstrated is bad enough, but to project that upon alien societies is absurd.

Yes, I think you should have unlimited leaders. The choice shouldn't be "should I put a governor up or have a general" and you shouldn't go without a research head because you overextended on colonies and one of your scientists died. The choice shouldn't be if you should have one or not, but where you put your experienced characters and when you swap out your characters in favour of letting less experienced characters level up.

Is that "very boring"? That's subjective. I think a game that you have no real influence on the outcome is very boring: that's what we have currently.
 

Outside-

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Let's be honest: the current defenses being pushovers to a half-decent fleet are what make defenses useless in the game right now, regardless of FTL type. If they were capable of surviving at least long enough for reinforcements to arrive, and were placed to cover valuable systems, they'd have value, even if it's as a deterrent from hitting your more important worlds.

That is right after the early game, but if they make the system defences better with the new big Starbases, at least we have the option to build a "wall" to our border systems because the hyperlane FTL allowed it. At least in the middle game because after that the wormhole/gateway and jump drive technology will change that probably.
 

Nsidious

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On the one hand, I am not really affected because I prefer hyperlane-only setups pretty much for the same reasons as it was described here. This setup is easy to understand and manage, AI doesn’t struggle as much, it adds strategic elements to the warfare and is overall much more convenient.

On the other hand, I am concerned by this change or rather by its implementation. Completely removing two other FTL types as they are from the game is not a good solution at all. I would’ve preferred both types to be kept in and unlocked as midgame technologies with all three methods having their own niche in the same nation.

Hyperlanes would be bread and butter for conventional fleets and civilian ships, warp (with hyperlane functionality) would be specialized, expensive way of travel that could allow science ships to access and explore hidden corners of space as well as a way for small elite fleets to circumvent enemy positions. Wormhole stations would be very expensive to build and maintain but would offer instant transfer of ships to any allied station becoming a game changer in later wars. Jump drives would be a very late tech around the time of crisis arrival and function as it is now.

So, the early game and early wars would follow hyperlane “terrain” model establishing basic structure of galactic political map with fortresses, neutral zones etc. Middle game will be about exploration and colonial wars in remote reaches of space (like British/French rivalry in North America and elsewhere) by small warp fleets as well as full scale wars of conventional fleets. Late game would see use of wormholes as a way of integrating remote regions of space and commencing strategic strikes against enemy. Jump drives would be very late tech that speeds up the game in face of crisis and awakened empires.

This would offer a lot of interesting scenarios. You can go mostly hyperlane all game and just brute your way through defenses by cheap fleets at expense of treasures hidden in space. You can use a lot of small warp fleets, improving your versatility during war as well as becoming a strong contender for remote space at the cost of brute strength. You can lay low and invest it all in wormholes gaining amazing mobility and reconnaissance capabilities at expense of slower initial expansion. Or you can juggle it all to make most use of each for each given moment.

Did you not even read the dev diary? You just described the system they're implementing.
 

Vikådin

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What of that appies to people who dont pay agressive but like the other options for quick expansion and colonizing enclaves over the other side of the galaxy?

Wut?

FYI my current game is Fanatic Pacifist so idk what you think aggressive/non-aggressive has to do with being good.. or what it has to do with quick expansion... and somebody tell me how to colonize an enclave, I thought all they did was take my money and promise to eventually finish some fancy project that they never get around to like some typical liberal arts college?
 

goodusername

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On the other hand, I am concerned by this change or rather by its implementation. Completely removing two other FTL types as they are from the game is not a good solution at all. I would’ve preferred both types to be kept in and unlocked as midgame technologies with all three methods having their own niche in the same nation.

They're only removing warp, you can still unlock jump drives in the mid/late game. They're adding in natural wormholes and like mass effect relay type things as well. So they're doing what you said, start with hyperlanes-only but then over time you use a combination of hyperlanes, wormholes, gates, and jump drives.
 

Thorin

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You can't have meaningful borders, meaningful terrain, meaningful defenses, choke points, ambush points, defensible points, key systems to hold/assault/take/defend, you can't have ANY of that so long as one can simply choose worm hole generators and leap over 3-8 systems.

You can have meaningfull chokepoint and defense with wormhole, warp, lanes and any other not currently in the game travel types. Your only chokepoints is the planets, the colonies. Nobody cares for the empty +3 mineral per month system, destroy all my spacemines if you want, if I can defend my colonies, you failed as an invader, and reverse, i don't care if you defended all your spacemines, but lost your colonies, you just lost, xenoscum.

Have the ability to defend planets/colonies, and you have chokepoints, irrelevant of travel type, don't have the ability, and you will not have chokepoints, even if you forced to walk from star to star.
 

Vikådin

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Actually it's a self-reinforcing cycle: To make powerful defenses worthwhile when an opponent can go anywhere, you have to be able to place them in every system (or at least, every system of value)... but if you can place them in every system, you can't make them powerful, otherwise it would become tedious bordering on impossible to go through it all while dealing with enemy fleets et al... so you make them powerful, you have to limit where you can place them... which means the enemy can just warp/wormhole/jump around them, making them worthless in a different way.

Except as it has been said 50 times on this forum now...

If you make defenses powerful and worthwhile, and you limit where you can place them, you make them meaningful by not letting people warp/wormhole/jump around them, keeping them from becoming worthless. Ta-da. See why these changes are good and your argument is invalid?
 
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