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Stellaris Dev Diary #92: FTL Rework and Galactic Terrain

Hello everyone and welcome to another Stellaris development diary. Today's dev diary is about Faster than Light travel in the Cherryh update, and it's likely to be a controversial one. When discussing, please remember to keep things civil, and I would kindly ask that you read the entire dev diary before rushing to post, as it's going to cover some of the questions and concerns we expect to see from the playerbase. Also, as posted last week, all of these changes are currently far away, and we cannot give more details on ETAs or the exact nature of the Cherryh update than we already have. Thank you!

FTL Rework
The single biggest design issue we have had to tackle in the Stellaris team since release is the asymmetrical FTL. While it's a cool and interesting idea on paper, the honest truth is that the feature just does not fit well into the game in practice, and blocks numerous improvements on a myriad of other features such as warfare and exploration, as well as solutions to fundamental design problems like the weakness of static defenses. After a lot of debate among the designers, we finally decided that if we were ever going to be able to tackle these issues and turn Stellaris into a game with truly engrossing and interesting warfare, we would have to bite the bullet and take a controversial decision: Consolidating FTL from the current three types down into a primarily hyperlane-based game, with more advanced forms of FTL unlocked through technology.

However, as I have said on the previous occasions when discussing this issue, one thing we would never consider doing is just slashing FTL types from the game without adding in something else to compensate their loss. That is what most of this dev diary is going to be about. However, before continuing with the details on the additions and changes we're making to FTL, I want to cover a couple of the questions I expect will arise from this:

Why are you removing FTL choices instead of building on them?
A lot of people have asked this question when we have brought up consolidating FTL types before, suggesting that problems such as static defenses can be solved by just adding more mechanics to handle each special case. I think the problem with this is best illustrated with defense stations and FTL inhibitors. One of the aims of the Starbase system is to give empires the ability to 'lock down' their borders, building fortresses that enemy fleets cannot simply skip past to strike at their core worlds, instead of having to create static defenses in every single valuable system.

With hyperlanes, this is a pretty simple affair: As hyperlanes create natural choke points, the only thing a hyperlane-stopping FTL inhibitor needs to do is to prevent enemy fleets from leaving the system once they enter it. The fleet can enter, it can retreat (via emergency FTL) and it can bring down the source of the FTL inhibitor (which might be a Starbase or even a planet) to be able to continue. This is quite easy to understand, both in terms of which system you need to defend to lock down your borders, and how it works when you are on the offensive.

Now let's add Warp to the mix. In this case, the single-system FTL inhibitor is useless because Warp fleets can just go over it, so we'll invent another mechanic: A warp interdiction bubble, stretching a certain distance around the system, that pull in any hostile Warp fleets traveling there to the system containing the FTL inhibitor, and force them to battle it or retreat. This is immediately a lot more messy: First of all, this bubble can't possibly affect Hyperlane fleets, because it could potentially pull them dozens of jumps away from their current location. This means that when fortifying your borders, you now need to not just make sure that every important chokepoint is covered, but also that your entire border is covered in warp interdiction bubbles.

But there's more: Add Wormholes as well, and you now have an FTL type where not only the 'bubble' type interdictor doesn't make intuitive sense (because Wormhole fleets make point-to-point jumps rather than traveling over the map) but if said interdictor works to pull Wormhole fleets out of position regardless of what makes intuitive sense, you end up with the same probem as with hyperlanes, where the fleet can get pulled out of range of its wormhole network and end up stranded even if it brings down the defenses. This means you pretty much have to invent a third type of interdiction type for Wormhole on top of what is already an overengineered and hard to understand system.

Finally, add the problem of displaying all these different types of inhibitors and interdictors on the map, in a way that the player can even remotely start to understand, and you end up with nothing short of a complete mess, where it's far better to just have static defenses protecting single valuable systems... and so we come full circle.

This is the fundamental problem that we have been grappling with when it comes to asymmetrical FTL: What works in a game such as Sword of the Stars, with its turn-based gameplay, small maps of usually no more than 3-6 empires, and 1-on-1 wars breaks down completely in a Stellaris game with real-time gameplay and wars potentially containing a dozen actors, all with their own form of FTL. The complexity collapses into what is for the player just a mess of fleets appearing and disappearing with no discernible logic to them.

Why Hyperlanes?
When discussing this, we essentially boiled down the consolidation into three possibilities: Hyperlanes only, Warp-only, and Warp+Hyperlanes. Wormhole is simply too different a FTL type to ever really work with the others, and not intuitive enough to work as the sole starting FTL for everyone playing the game. Keeping both Warp and Hyperlanes would be an improvement, but would still keep many of the issues we currently have in regards to user experience and fleet coordination. Warp-only was considered as an alternative, but ultimately Hyperlanes won out because of the possibilities it opens up for galactic geography, static defenses and enhancements to exploration.

Here are the some of the possibilities that consolidation of FTL into Hyperlanes creates for Stellaris:
  • Unified distance, sensor and border systems that make sense for everyone (for example, cost of claiming a system not being based on euclidean distance but rather the actual distance for ships to travel there)
  • Galactic 'geography', systems that are strategically and tactically important due to location and 'terrain' (more on this below) rather than just resources
  • More possibilities for galaxy generation and exploration (for example, entire regions of space accessible only through a wormhole or a single guarded hyperlane, containing special locations and events to discover)
  • Better performance through caching and unified code (Wormhole FTL in particular is a massive resource hog in the late game)
  • Warfare with a distinct sense of 'theatres', advancing/retreating fronts and border skirmishes (more on this in future dev diaries)
Are all new forms of FTL free patch content?
Yes. Naturally we're not going to charge for any form of content meant to replace the loss of old FTL types.

Hyperlane and Sublight Travel
As mentioned, in the Cherryh update. all empires will now start the game with Hyperlanes as their only mode of FTL. By default, hyperlane generation is going to be changed to create more 'islands' and 'choke points', to make for more interesting galactic geography. However, as we know some players do not enjoy the idea of constricted space, we are going to add a slider that controls the general frequency and connectivity of hyperlanes. Turning this up will create a more connected galaxy and make it harder to protect all your systems with static defenses, for players who prefer something closer to the current game's Warp-style movement.

Sublight travel is also being changed somewhat, in the sense that you need to actually travel to the entry point to a particular hyperlane (the arrow inside a system) to enter it, rather than being able to enter any hyperlane from any point outside's a system's gravity well. This means that fleets will move in a more predictable fashion, and interdictions will frequently happen inside systems instead of nearly always being at the edge of them, in particular allowing for fleets to 'guard' important hyperlane entry/exit points. To compensate for the need to move across systems, sublight travel has been sped up, especially with more advanced forms of thrusters.
2017_11_02_2.png


FTL Sensors
Along with the change to FTL, we are also changing the way sensors work. Instead of simply being a circle radiating an arbitrary distance from a ship, station or planet, each level of sensors can now see a certain distance in FTL connections. For example, a ship with level 1 sensors (Radar) will only give sensor coverage of the same system that it is currently in, while a ship with level 2 (Gravitic) sensors will give sensor coverage of that system and all systems connected to it through a Hyperlane or explored Wormhole (more on that below), a ship with level 3 sensors will be able to see systems connected to those systems, and so on. Sensor coverage can be 'blocked' by certain galactic features (more on that below), which will also block propagation into further connected systems. We are currently discussing the implementation of sensor blockers as a potential Starbase component.
2017_11_02_1.png


Wormholes
While Wormhole as a full-fledged FTL type is gone, Wormholes are not. Instead they have been changed into a natural formation that can be encountered while exploring the galaxy. Wormholes come in pairs, essentially functioning as very long hyperlanes that can potentially take a ship across the entire galaxy near-instantly. Natural Wormholes are unstable, and when first encountered, you will not be able to explore them. To explore a Wormhole, you need the Wormhole Stabilization technology, after which a science ship can be sent to stabilize and chart the Wormhole to find out what lies on the other side. If you're lucky, this may be unclaimed space full of valuable systems, but it could just as well be a Devouring Swarm eager to come over for dinner. There is a slider on game setup that controls the frequency of wormhole pairs in the galaxy.
2017_11_02_4.png


Gateways
Gateways is an advanced form of FTL most closely resembling the Wormhole FTL in the live version of the game. While exploring the galaxy, you can find abandoned Gateways that were once part of a massive, galaxy-spanning network. These Gateways are disabled and unusable, but with the Gateway Reactivation mid-game technology and a hefty investment of minerals, they can be restored to working order. Like Wormholes, Gateways allow for near-instant travel to other Gateways, but the difference is that any activated Gateway can be used to travel to any other activated Gateway, and late-game technology allows for the construction of more Gateways to expand the network. Also unlike Wormholes, which cannot be 'closed', Gateways also have the advantage of allowing any empire controlling the system they're in to control who goes through said Gateway - hostile empires and empires to whom you have closed your borders will not be able to use 'your' Gateways to just appear inside of your systems.

When the first Gateway is re-activated, another random Gateway will also be re-activated along with it, so that there is never a situation where you just have a single active Gateway going nowhere. There is a slider on game setup that controls the frequency of abandoned gateways in the galaxy.
2017_11_02_8.png


Jump Drives
Jump Drives and Psi Jump Drives have been changed, and is now an advanced form of FTL that mixes Hyperdrive with some functionality from the old Warp FTL. They allow for a ship to travel normally and very quickly along hyperlanes, but also come equipped with a tactical 'jump' functionality that allows a fleet to make a point-to-point jump ignoring the normal hyperlane limitations. This is done with a special fleet order where you select a target system for the jump (within a certain pre-defined range, with Psi Jump Drives having longer range than regular Jump Drives), after which the fleet charges up its jump drive and creates a temporary wormhole leading to the system. After the fleet makes its 'jump', the Jump Drive will need to recharge, with a significant cooldown before it can be used again, and also applies a debuff to the fleet that reduces its combat effectiveness while the cooldown is in effect. This allows for fleets with Jump Drives to ignore the usual FTL restrictions and skip straight past enemy fleets and stations, but at the cost of leaving themselves vulnerable and potentially stranded for a time afterwards. This design is highly experimental, and may change during the development of Cherryh, but we wanted Jump Drives to not just be 'Hyperdrive IV' but rather to unlock new tactical and strategic possibilities for warfare.

Galactic Terrain
With the switch to Hyperlanes and the creation of strategically important systems and chokepoints, we've also decided to implement something we had always thought was a really interesting idea, but which made little sense without such chokepoints: Galactic Terrain. Specifically, systems with environmental effects and hazards that have profound tactical and strategic effects on ships and empires. This is still something we are in the middle of testing and prototyping, but so far we have created the following forms of Galactic Terrain:
Nebulas block all sensor coverage originating from other systems, meaning that it's impossible for an empire to see what ships and stations are inside a system in a nebula without having a ship or station stationed there, allowing empires to hide their fleets and set up ambushes.
Pulsars interfere with deflector technology, nullifying all ship and station shields in a system with a Pulsar.
Neutron Stars interfere with navigation and ship systems, significantly slowing down sublight travel in a system with a Neutron Star.
Black Holes interfere with FTL, increasing the time it takes for a fleet to charge its emergency FTL and making it more difficult to ships to individually disengage from combat (more on this in a later dev diary).

The above is just a first iteration, and it's something we're likely to tweak and build on more for both the Cherryh update and other updates beyond it, so stay tuned for more information on this.
2017_11_02_3.png

2017_11_02_5.png


That's all for today! I will finish this dev diary by saying that we do not expect everyone to be happy with these changes, but we truly believe that they are necessary to give Stellaris truly great warfare, and that we think you will find the game better for it once you get a chance to try them. We will be doing a Design Corner feature on today's Extraterrestial Thursday stream, where me and Game Designer Daniel Moregård (grekulf) will be discussing the changes, fielding questions and showing off some gameplay in the internal development build. If you want a look at some of these changes in a live game environment, be sure to tune to the Paradox Interactive twitch channel at 4pm CET.

Next week, we're going to talk about war and peace, including the complete rework of the current wargoal system that was made possible by the changes to FTL and system control discussed in this and last week's dev diary. See you then!
 
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mario94

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Sounds like maybe this game is just too hard for you and you need more "easy win button" options. Jump and Psi drives are still in the game. They weren't removed. They're just not accessible to you right off the start anymore. If you want it easier and easier then keep modding and getting more and more easy mode mods. That's the option for people like you who don't care about balance and just want to be able to bypass all the stuff you think is too hard or too much of a challenge to overcome. I feel bad for you never having faced the unbidden, or had 4 machine worlds open up in your sector of space and start destroying you so hard you basically became a nomad wandering through space trying to survive the end of times. I think you're really missing a lot of the things that make this game so amazing and wonderful to play. And personally, whenever the game hands my butt to me, I consider it a lesson that I wasn't playing well enough. A lesson to improve. Why did I die? No fleet. Why no fleet? No money. Why no money? No skill at game. =P

We're all going to play our own way I guess, but your posts reminds me of the Warcraft players complaining they couldn't use "greedisgood" resource cheats and actually had to play the game for real in multiplayer. My response is the same; "Go play by yourself with the computer where nobody cares how much you need to cheat to win."

I love wormholes but I approve of these changes.
Because putting tons of defences on a chokepoint is such a stroke of strategic genius.
Knowing EXACTLY where the enemy is coming from makes the whole strategic aspect so much more challenging.
 

Riftwalker

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It's as if blizzard announced that, due to balance issues, all Starcraft players will be playing Zerg from now on. We currently have 4 kinds of responses.

  1. "I think that's great, because I'm a Zerg player, and Zerg are the best! Balance is really important in this game, and I'm really excited to see more Zerg in the game, as those other races were bad, and the people who played them were bad too."
  2. "Well, I'm not a Zerg player, but Blizzard has never been wrong before. I'm sure they know what they're doing, at the very least, we should wait until the change goes live. I'm sure we'll all love Zerg, once we've seen the changes."
  3. "Well, I'm a Zerg player, but I like the variety of playing against all three kinds of players. I think this will remove variety from the game, so I'm against it."
  4. "WHAT? You're not going to let me play my Terrain/Protoss anymore? I HATE the zerg. I'm never gonna play the game again!"

Extreme example perhaps, but every response I've seen so far fits into one of these 4 categories.


false equivalency. this is more like if they removed flying units or something. get your analogies right people.
 

Nsidious

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It's as if blizzard announced that, due to balance issues, all Starcraft players will be playing Zerg from now on. We currently have 4 kinds of responses.

  1. "I think that's great, because I'm a Zerg player, and Zerg are the best! Balance is really important in this game, and I'm really excited to see more Zerg in the game, as those other races were bad, and the people who played them were bad too."
  2. "Well, I'm not a Zerg player, but Blizzard has never been wrong before. I'm sure they know what they're doing, at the very least, we should wait until the change goes live. I'm sure we'll all love Zerg, once we've seen the changes."
  3. "Well, I'm a Zerg player, but I like the variety of playing against all three kinds of players. I think this will remove variety from the game, so I'm against it."
  4. "WHAT? You're not going to let me play my Terrain/Protoss anymore? I HATE the zerg. I'm never gonna play the game again!"

Extreme example perhaps, but every response I've seen so far fits into one of these 4 categories.


Wow this is the stupidest thing I've ever read. Maybe if they had actually fleshed out the empires to be completely unique depending on the mode of travel but this is not even true. A better way to put this would be if they had three different versions of terran in the game and one of them could warp in like protoss, one of them just walked and had to pay attention to the different pathways and terrain they were using, and the other one just floated slowly and didn't have to worry about what terrain was under it.

All they did was say, hey these three modes of travel aren't interacting very well and it's not fun right now because the player that has to care about terrain is only doing it to his detriment, the player who can warp in anywhere with pylons can just destroy the other players bases as soon as they start moving to attack him, and the guy who just slowly floats along doesn't have the speed to properly react to either player.
 

Nsidious

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I don't even use wormhole, the supposed 'cheat' FTL, but I'm not really a fan of these changes, either, more for reasons of having guerrilla options that don't involve a late-game tech.

So you don't like the changes because it adds progression to the game instead of letting you just start with an immensely powerful and advantageous mode of travel that almost immediately equates to a military advantage?
 

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I don't even use wormhole, the supposed 'cheat' FTL, but I'm not really a fan of these changes, either, more for reasons of having guerrilla options that don't involve a late-game tech.

i beleive it;s a hyperbolic way of saying

"people are upset that they can't ignore certain disadvantageous other empires deal with"

not that i agree.

i just think people are upset their fluff is gone.
 

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You do know on release of stelaris, that at one point everyone could research all FTL types right? Even though you started with 1 type. My hyperlane could easily become warp in the early game.

I played this game from release. And I do not remember any point in time when you could research all FTL types. If I remember the pre-release dev diaries correctly, it was made pretty clear from the start that you were constrained to your starting choice with the exception of federation fleets.
 

Boygor

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That's always been the risk of paradox, but the issue still stems. You're only hurting yourself having such an extreme fanatical view in one thing. The rest of the game, and Stellaris is awesome, and you've not even seen how all the other things they have planned will interact with it.

In the end you may actually enjoy the changes, even if it's still not entirely how you'd of liked it ultimately, and to throw away the fact that it does allow them to greatly enhance the warfare, and strategy down the road with more updates, and expansions to it, as well as help fix the AI derpy attitudes by making a system that's much easier program around logically and decide "screw paradox and stellaris" and act like its the end of everything including your trust.. You're only hurting yourself in teh end, and potentially cheating yourself out of a good experience, and fun times.

To be honest I've played loads of games with starlanes and I have enjoyed none of them so I'm not really going to give them the benefit of the doubt in lieu of some obscure Dev "master plan". Master of Orion 3, Sins of a Solar Empire, Endless Space, the new Master of Orion... all the same in the sense that the starlanes ultimately kill it for me from an immersion perspective.

I mean short of some vague promises in future Dev diaries I see nothing here to change my opinion (which is based on my experience). I mean sure, I'll read the next few Dev diaries but they would have to be spectacular in what they promise (to improve the starlane mechanic specifically) to move me an inch on this.
 

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Love the idea's you have in store for FTL changes. Will you also be working on what i think the annoying part of the game, the 'wind up and cool down' of the drives? I mean, a day or two is fine, or even keeping the several day process, but let the sublight drives still work, having a ship standing around for like 2 weeks to a month in game seems over the top in any aspect of sci-fi, imagine the enterprise unable to warp after arriving for a week. or the Falcon only able to go in to hyperspace once a fortnight!

I'm not sure on why this was deemed neccessary (for in game mechanics) but I do think it requires some thinking about.

Anyway, love the game, I would love to see other game mechanics introduced too, like...
Trade Routes, requiring trade ships that can get attacked by pirates.
Different types of stations that add bonus effects.
Like Trade posts (increasing revenue for power and mineral)
Specialised Research stations (for special tech, or upgrading normal research stations)
Holiday resort stations/colonies to give happiness bonuses.
 

mudcrabmerchant

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If the changes lead to better gameplay, that's great. But improving over the current state of war in Stellaris isn't doing much.

I'd rather see galactic geography arising dynamically from empire-created supply routes, with important defensive stations being placed around planetary supply depots instead of around every star on our border. The starport and FTL rework is going to make this game strategically identical to EUIV.
 

matt00

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After i bought this game, i really liked it. So much that on the first weekend i just slept for 2 hours and startet playing again. Only stopped for eating something.

But after some time it lacks on new contend. DLCs are slowly coming. Lazy excuses with the latest update by not adding new ship models while some mods do this with every update.

And now removing features and try to make it look like an update? While a hyperlane option is already there?

This game is a sandbox game, i play it as an simulation of a space empire(I end my games when i feel a have acomplished all i want. I do not need to conquer the whole galaxy. In my last playthrough i did not fight a single war whith the exception of the scrouge. I befriended all other factions).

There is only one thing this game needs: more diversity. More Ship models. More technology (Cloaking, boarding ships....), Spies/ Agents.
I don't care if the options are unfair.

Sorry but for how i like to play this is a Downgrade to me and not an Update.
I would not care if this is optional, but sorry for repeating:
It does not make any sense remove this feature in an sandbox game, especially when there is already the option of hyperlane only.
 

Mr. Capiatlist

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I have gone through a huge back catalog of reports and have begun noticing a few characters popping up time and time again.

Infractions handed out, thread bans beginning.

Please treat each other with respect. This is a family friendly forum and many people are upset with a change that they don't approve of. Whether you agree or disagree with the change, treat your fellow forum-goers with respect or you will be removed from this thread.
 

LambTaco

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So you don't like the changes because it adds progression to the game instead of letting you just start with an immensely powerful and advantageous mode of travel that almost immediately equates to a military advantage?
It's not a military advantage in a wormhole only game.

I swear, people are so aware that hyperlane only is a thing, but seem to forget that warp only and wormhole only are also options. At least in the current build.
 

Boygor

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It's not a military advantage in a wormhole only game.

I swear, people are so aware that hyperlane only is a thing, but seem to forget that warp only and wormhole only are also options. At least in the current build.

ha ha exactly. There was literally nothing stopping them playing hyperlane only anyway...
 

mario94

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Sorry but you're really ignoring a vast majority of the main post. You still have wormholes, and jump gates. The fact that wormholes are random to me will make things very interesting, and an interesting new asset to obtain through either alliances or wars. It's not assymetrical. period. You're ignoring parts of the post to make your argument sound more valid.

It's still assymetrical, and it still allows for diverging gameplay, and strategies. The only similarities this game has with Sins of a solar empire is hyperlanes. THat's it, it makes your argument weak.
I'd like to point out that wormholes and jumpgates are part of SoaSE in exactly the same fashion as described in this dev diary. Wormholes are basically just another hyperlane, now if they made them shift exit point every once in a while that would be interesting. But that won't happen, because imagine if a wormhole formed during a war between warring faction one would bypass enemy defences and we can't have that.
No the features as highlighted in both the dev diary and the stream are all identic to the ons in sins.
 

Outside-

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It's not a military advantage in a wormhole only game.

I swear, people are so aware that hyperlane only is a thing, but seem to forget that warp only and wormhole only are also options. At least in the current build.

Wormholes makes the defenses useless in the game anyway right now, even if this is the only FTL method.
 

OverthinkingThis

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What about the Fallen Empires? I mean what FTL drives they use if they awakening after this patch?
Jump drives will still exist but function like normal high-level hyperlanes with a "warp active" that will have along cooldown. In other words a jump drive fleet can roam normally, but should they want to skip a planet or three they can 'jump' directly there, but they won't be able to 'jump' again for a little while.
 

goodusername

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After i bought this game, i really liked it. So much that on the first weekend i just slept for 2 hours and startet playing again. Only stopped for eating something.

But after some time it lacks on new contend. DLCs are slowly coming. Lazy excuses with the latest update by not adding new ship models while some mods do this with every update.

And now removing features and try to make it look like an update? While a hyperlane option is already there?

This game is a sandbox game, i play it as an simulation of a space empire(I end my games when i feel a have acomplished all i want. I do not need to conquer the whole galaxy. In my last playthrough i did not fight a single war whith the exception of the scrouge. I befriended all other factions).

There is only one thing this game needs: more diversity. More Ship models. More technology (Cloaking, boarding ships....), Spies/ Agents.
I don't care if the options are unfair.

Sorry but for how i like to play this is a Downgrade to me and not an Update.
I would not care if this is optional, but sorry for repeating:
It does not make any sense remove this feature in an sandbox game, especially when there is already the option of hyperlane only.

You should probably read the dev diary first. They're reworking the FTL system so that it's something you can actually build fun features off of. Instead of the whole thing being a hindrance. Besides they're literally adding in actually wormholes, cool Mass Effect-style jump gates, massive actually buff stations, and death-trap stars; silly to call it a downgrade.

Jump drives will still exist but function like normal high-level hyperlanes with a "warp active" that will have along cooldown. In other words a jump drive fleet can roam normally, but should they want to skip a planet or three they can 'jump' directly there, but they won't be able to 'jump' again for a little while.

I assume there will be tech to reduce the jump cool-down as well, or maybe just tiered jump drives? I think it's just jump --> psi right now?
 
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