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Stellaris Dev Diary #85: Decadence and Ascension Path Changes

Hello everyone and welcome to another Stellaris development diary. Today's dev diary is the last dev diary for the 1.8 'Čapek' update, and will be going over the introduction of Awakened Empire Decadence and some changes coming to the three Ascension Paths and Megastructures. Decadence is a free feature in the 1.8 update, while the Ascension Path and Megastructure changes require the Utopia expansion.

Awakened Empire Decadence
Awakened Empires were added to the game as a way of throwing a new challenge at the player in the late-game. They are intended to be formidable foes, and only the absolutely most powerful player empires are meant to be able to take them on alone. However, this could lead to an unintended game state where the Awakened Empire had conquered or subjugated all regular empires and effectively 'won', with the player being stuck as an AE subject until the end of time. In order to address this, we've added a new mechanic called Decadence for Awakened Empires. Decadence is effectively a meter, going from 0 to 100, that starts filling up for Awakened Empires once a certain amount of time has passed since awakening. The larger they are (both in terms of owned planets and subjugated empires), the faster it builds up. Decadence reduces Awakened Empire resource income and fleet power, and also increases the rebelliousness of their subjects, and has very large penalties at high levels of Decadence. What this means it that while an Awakened Empire might start very strong, and grow even stronger as they expand, that very expansion will eventually turn into decline, until they're weakened to the point where the rest of the galaxy can rebel and overthrow them - if you end up their subject, you just have to be patient, build up your forces, and wait for the right moment to take back your freedom. Awakened Empires have also been changed so that they prefer to subjugate other empires (though still taking some planets as well) to conquering them outright, so there should always be a collection of subjects chafing under the precursor yoke and biding their time.
2017_09_07_1.png


Ascension Path Changes
One of the most loved features in Utopia is the Ascension Paths - the ability to choose an 'end goal' for your empire and species in the form of Psionic, Synthetic or Biological Ascension. However, the decision to restrict the Psionic and Synthetic paths based on ethics was less popular, and though I think the reasoning for it is sound (making ethics more diverse), this is a case where I think there is a valid case to say that balance should take a step back in favor of letting the player decide the path or their own empire. For this reason, we've lifted the Spiritualist-only restriction on psionics and have opened up for Spiritualists to research robotics and synthetically ascend. We have also removed the Materialist-only restriction on AI Citizen Rights.

To compensate for this loss, Spiritualists have received a buff in the form of stronger Temples, and Materialists have been given a new living standard called 'Academic Privilege' that boosts happiness and research output at the cost of more consumer goods. However, though we've lifted the hard restriction, the impact of the ascension paths on ethics attraction and faction happiness remain. This means that, for example, a Spiritualist empire that decides to Synthetically Ascend will have significant troubles with unhappy factions and materialist ethics drift, and similarly, the pursuit of Psionics will cause increased Spiritualist attraction and the likely creation of a strong Spiritualist faction.

In addition to these more general changes, there's a few more path-specific changes and additions:
Psionic: Buffed traits and Psi Corps building, and added an alert to tell you when the Shroud is ready for use. Additionally, psionically awakening other species in your empire now happens more often.
Synthetic: Added the ability to assimilate new biological pops into synthetic bodies, and the addition of robomodding significantly buffs this path. Synthetic and Cyborg leader traits were nerfed a bit to compensate.
Biological: Increased the total trait points by 1, and reduced the cost of advanced traits such as Robust.
2017_09_07_2.png


Megastructure Changes
The headline feature of Utopia was the Megastructures, massive constructions requiring tens of thousands of minerals and decades to construct. A frequent criticism we have received for the Megastructures is that they simply do not feel significant enough, with comments on how the Dyson Sphere should realistically be producing millions of energy, and so on. We've made some changes in 1.8 that we hope will address some of these complaints, though I want to preface this by saying that Megastructures are not and will never be 'realistic', nor is Stellaris meant to be a realistic game in the first place. However, they are meant to feel impressive and special, and when a handful of Habitats with solar power processors can match a Dyson Sphere in output, that impressiveness tends to fade, no matter whether it's actually balanced or not.

For this reason, we have decided to make a change to the Dyson Sphere and Science Nexus. Both of these Megastructures have been majorly buffed, with a finished Dyson Sphere now producing 1000 energy and a fully upgraded Science Nexus outputting a total of ~750 science. However, they have been changed so that each empire can now only build one of each, similar to the Sentry Array. This means that they can be very powerful without having to massively increase the build time or cost to prevent them from simply being spammed. Ringworlds have not been changed, and can be built in any number you want, indirectly buffing the effectiveness of the Circle of Life perk.

Additionally, we've made a tweak to the Master Builders perk. This perk, when taken, will now give you the Mega-Engineering technology if you do not already have it, similar to how World Shaper gives Atmospheric Manipulation and Mastery of Nature gives blocker techs. This allows for reliable access to Mega-Engineering for empires that want to focus on Megastructure construction.
2017_09_07_3.png


That's all for today! Next week we'll post the full patch notes for 1.8 and Synthetic Dawn. See you then!
 
Last edited:

Sapa Inca

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maintain that your viewpoint on this is biased because if you're regularly wiping out Awakened Empires, Decadence wasn't added for you. It's specifically an option to give players who can't do that a chance to have a Triumphant Return To Power after being subjugated.
I dont stomp every game vs AEs but I like have a real chance to lose the game vs a AE, if the decadence numbers are adjusted in a form that the gameplay of a big revolt vs one AE is a interesting gameplay with real chances of win or lose I will be satisfied, if the decadence numbers just turn the big revolt in a sandbox with almost 0 chances of a bad outcome the mechanic is bad designed.
 

cmpunker

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Currently, Stellaris is just a game where is impossible lose if you dont is actively restraining yourself or dont is a new player and this is a very bad desgin.

I See this the exact same way. As Long As the player understands the mechanics, the AI empires are a joke.
I nearly always win in hardest settings while beeing totally stoned...[/QUOTE]

As long as the player understands the mechanics, all strategy games are a joke.
 

Strager

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HATE the single structure limit. If anything, I was hoping the limit on sentries were going to be removed.

Nerf the heck out of the structures (and costs) fine, but allowing only 1 per empire is arbitrary and removes the incentive to put an ascension point into mega-structures at all unless you want habitats or rings.
 

Heretic Saint

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No, it's terrible news. The biggest problem with this game is that empires already play too similar. We may as well just replace the names and faces with empire 1, 2, 3.
I fail to see how every single psionic empire in the galaxy being a bunch of religious zealots is supposed to make them feel more unique than there also being room for something like B5-style psi cops, StarCraft's Ghost operatives, or Mass Effect's biotics.

I feel conflicted about this. Despite the community's feedback, I was more on the Wiz's side here, I loved to see how different ascensions tied with each ethos and hoped to see more ethoi-specific ascensions. Still, if that's the price to pay in order to play psi cyborgs, so be it.
I think I can appreciate the idea behind it, but to me at least it broke down with psionics. Telepathy is too much of a generic sci-fi trope to limit it to any one Ethos, so the limitation to Spiritualists just came across as an arbitrary attempt to balance the (way more justifiable) limitation of synth Ascension for Materialists. In a game that thrives upon players being able to engage in worldbuilding and realizing their own ideas for alien cultures, this was a huge blocker.

I'd even go a step further and allow players to mix and match any two 1st-tier Ascension Perks to maximize empire uniqueness. But fortunately there will be mods to achieve this, I suppose.

In my opinion, Spiritualists need a system for faith, not a mechanic that could be available to almost anyone given the right explanation. I mean, even in the real world, it was the CIA and KGB who experimented with telepathy, not the Holy See.

... as far as we know!
 
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Connll

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No offense, but will gene modding *NOT* give some kind of bonus to the leaders? IMHO, those are the strongest bonuses of the bunch. Just take a look at the Synth and Psychic Leader traits: those, by themselves, are worth a LOT of points in terms of species traits...
 

DarwinPon_y

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Ascension Path Changes
we've lifted the Spiritualist-only restriction on psionics and have opened up for Spiritualists to research robotics and synthetically ascend. We have also removed the Materialist-only restriction on AI Citizen Rights.

Is it possible then for an empire that has already pursued one ascension perk to gain the research option of other ascension paths?
 

Mauer

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@Wiz, can you please reconsider the restriction on mega-structures? I like that we can get them sooner more consistently now, but having only one of each Dyson Sphere and Science Nexus just feels terribly limiting and makes the Galactic Wonders perk kinda lame, especially if we happen to already find one of these structures in a broken state.

I think the one-structure-at-a-time restriction and influence cost and serve to limit their spamming as one is time-senisitive and the other a resource with linear gain, so maybe they could cost more of this to compensate. There could also be more restrictions that bring the different systems into play, like the Science Hubs needing to be in systems of a different star class than you already have one on.

Or else have you thought about adding more mega-structures in the future? A mega Mining Hub for systems with an asteroid belt or many barren planets, Space Dragon or Wraith breeding grounds to allow us to build some for ourselves, interstellar artillery, etc.
 

Atlantians

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For this reason, we have decided to make a change to the Dyson Sphere and Science Nexus. Both of these Megastructures have been majorly buffed, with a finished Dyson Sphere now producing 1000 energy and a fully upgraded Science Nexus outputting a total of ~750 science. However, they have been changed so that each empire can now only build one of each, similar to the Sentry Array. This means that they can be very powerful without having to massively increase the build time or cost to prevent them from simply being spammed. Ringworlds have not been changed, and can be built in any number you want, indirectly buffing the effectiveness of the Circle of Life perk.

WHAT?

The whole point of the Spheres should be duplication. Covering as many stars as you have no other use for. o_O
 

Aries666

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I fail to see how every single psionic empire in the galaxy being a bunch of religious zealots is supposed to make them feel more unique than there also being room for something like B5-style psi cops, StarCraft's Ghost operatives, or Mass Effect's biotics.

I think I can appreciate the idea behind it, but to me at least it broke down with psionics. Telepathy is too much of a generic sci-fi trope to limit it to any one Ethos, so the limitation to Spiritualists just came across as an arbitrary attempt to balance the (way more justifiable) limitation of synth Ascension for Materialists. In a game that thrives upon players being able to engage in worldbuilding and realizing their own ideas for alien cultures, this was a huge blocker.

I'd even go a step further and allow players to mix and match any two 1st-tier Ascension Perks to maximize empire uniqueness. But fortunately there will be mods to achieve this, I suppose.

In my opinion, Spiritualists need a system for faith, not a mechanic that could be available to almost anyone given the right explanation. I mean, even in the real world, it was the CIA and KGB who experimented with telepathy, not the Holy See.

... as far as we know!
That's not really what I said though, my point is that if everything is available to everyone then they are all effectively the same. The ethics system in this game was so promising yet they have been gradually making it a single homogeneous mess, this is just a further step in that direction.
 

Noctiluca

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I See this the exact same way. As Long As the player understands the mechanics, the AI empires are a joke.
I nearly always win in hardest settings while beeing totally stoned...

If i remember older DDs correctly there will be a difficulty slider for AEs and crises ... so everyone can tune it 'til they get beat up and then be glad theres decadence
... like us normal players
 

Mauer

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WHAT?

The whole point of the Spheres should be duplication. Covering as many stars as you have no other use for. o_O
Agreed, though they should probably be limited some other way, like requiring non-habitable planets orbiting for material like Ringworlds, or have different energy outputs based on the star they orbit, with the new increased limit for the brightest stars only.

This is a huge nerf to tall empires, which are already sub-par, though many of us like to play like that.
 

ZomgK3tchup

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@Wiz can I still repair a broken dyson sphere after I build one? Or can I build my own if I repair broken one first?
I like to imagine that if you find yourself with two Dyson Spheres, one spontaneously explodes.