Stellaris Dev Diary #77 - Ethics Voice Packs

[Rafss]

I guess the recording sessions are over and there's nothing anyone could do other than accept. But such thing can't be said, so the problem is addressed with unrelated arguments and taking the discussion to another level.
Not that nobody would like to discuss about sexism in our society and the "neurotic woman" stereotypes, it's indeed a problem. Powerful woman are frequently portrayed as neurotic, psychologically imbalanced. It's in the movies, stories, all media. Even the cult acclaimed Alfred Hitchcock did that.
But in this case the phrase itself calls for rape and pillage, it's a clear message, "civilazed behavior is gone and we're going all out. Nothing will be spared."
Now tell that for a democratic crusader and you'll be sent for reeducation, male or female.

 

[nfmarque]

To be clear, what I am saying is not that the Militarist VO is perfect and beyond all critique, what I am saying is that we had a script for the Militarist VO that called for a more 'crazy' approach, and we picked the actor (after auditioning both male and female voices) that did the role best, knowing that picking a male voice would have been a safer bet no matter the quality of the actor. So it's a bit amusing, like I said, to see the backlash and the absence of self-distance and self-reflection coming with it, because we *knew* this would happen and chose to pay that price.

Wiz,
Militarist VO, why go "crazy" route?

My suggestion for xenophile is Yandere route. Please get a Yuno Gasai!

 

[Draconaes]

No, we all know what's basically being said here, is that we're angry over the VO because we've been conditioned as males to dislike agressive female voices by our patriachal society and thus must not be able to handle strong, independent women. This is standard feminist doctrine, which is immensely popular in Sweden...

I know it's popular to strawman feminists on the internet, but cmon...

 

[Drakonn]

Will we have samples of them all in game to listen to before we pick them? That way we don't have to start a new game just to hear them all and then decide where they go.

 

[Princess Stabbity]

The militarist voice is fine for a given definition of (fanatic) militarist. The problem is that the ethics are pretty vague and militarist can mean anything from crazy barbarians to highly disciplined modern army.

I'm personally fine with it since the other option is making the voice so generic that it's meaningless and you can switch freely between the other options if you hate it.

Exactly. I feel there's going to be a lot and I mean A LOT of voices along the cold, calculated tone. Authoritarian is probably going to be that, Xenophobe seems to be that as well, Materialist is going to sound like that 120%.

But the Klingon yelling? Militarist is the only ethic this fits. If it hadn't been picked for the militarist announcer, it wouldn't have been used at all and the overall spectrum of choices would have suffered.

 

[TheGrinningMan]

@Wiz: As I'm watching this discussion, I think I'm seeing an implicit belief that might be worth confirming as explicit. If I read you correctly, and I apologize if I am totally off-base, you believe that some of the negative reaction to the militarist voice sample is because highly-aggressive AND female. That the desire for a more "professional" female militarist voice reflects a subconcious bias about how women ought present themselves. Is this a fair statement of your thesis, or do you believe we'd be having a variation on this discussion no matter how a female militarist voice was presented?

 

[Wizzington]

This is very disappointing. Are you even reading and comprehending the comments. She did a wonderful blood knight, which would be good for fanatical purifiers and/or a warrior culture, but it doesn't suit a disciplined military culture. It has nothing to do with her being a woman. Get off your high horse and shift your mentality from needless feminism to a legitimate discussion about what are appropriate attitudes of different militaristic/warlike societies.

Here's the thing: No matter The validity of such criticism, if we had picked a male voice, even one that sounded far 'crazier', we would have gotten at most 10-20% of the complaining we've gotten now. I make no judgment about any individual critique but this is an observable enough fact that we literally accounted for it in our planning. That's all.

 

[HAL.9000.1]

OK, I confess. Wiz and Draconaes are too smart for me. I said the voice was demented and unmilitary, but what I really meant was it's not a chap. And as we all know, being a chap is where it's at, viz :

 

[Darrenb209]

Here's the thing: No matter The validity of such criticism, if we had picked a male voice, even one that sounded far 'crazier', we would have gotten at most 10-20% of the complaining we've gotten now. I make no judgment about any individual critique but this is an observable enough fact that we literally accounted for it in our planning. That's all.

So you have future/other reality sight now?

...I've lost all the respect I had for you at the start of this. Why are you so insistent on making this about whether it's male or female?

 

[Rationalsanity]

Well, this escalated quickly....

 

[EuropaCam]

Given the existence of subconscious/unconscious sexism (and other isms) and the unpopularity of being openly misogynist - even among other misogynists at times (very useful to hide when trying to claim moral high-ground, after all) - it wouldn't surprise me that sexism is behind some of the complaints without being outright stated, and Wiz's statements strike me as not so much wrong as undiplomatic, if anything.

Thanks for the internet psycho-analysis, but sometimes a cigar is indeed just a cigar.

What people are stating over and over is that the narrative and emotion of the Militaristic voiceover just seems wrong for your garden variety military regime. That it seems very specific to a particular type of game play, e.g., if you're in the mood for Purifiers or role playing blood-thirsty Klingons. For anyone to wave away such stated criticism with a simple "you just don't like it because it's voiced by a woman" is rather condescending.

For the record, I didn't like it either, and I'd have been fine with all the narratives being voiced by women.

 

[yiome]

Exactly. I feel there's going to be a lot and I mean A LOT of voices along the cold, calculated tone. Authoritarian is probably going to be that, Xenophobe seems to be that as well, Materialist is going to sound like that 120%.

But the Klingon yelling? Militarist is the only ethic this fits. If it hadn't been picked for the militarist announcer, it wouldn't have been used at all and the overall spectrum of choices would have suffered.

Now you make me want to hear the Spiritualist voice
That's the problem isn't it? Spiritualist can range anything from the pacifist to fanatic purifier... and just in my recent game I played both xenophobic spiritualist celestial empire and fanatic spiritualist Imperial cult

 

[Wizzington]

@Wiz: As I'm watching this discussion, I think I'm seeing an implicit belief that might be worth confirming as explicit. If I read you correctly, and I apologize if I am totally off-base, you believe that some of the negative reaction to the militarist voice sample is because highly-aggressive AND female. That the desire for a more "professional" female militarist voice reflects a subconcious bias about how women ought present themselves. Is this a fair statement of your thesis, or do you believe we'd be having a variation on this discussion no matter how a female militarist voice was presented?

It's both. We'd be having this discussion regardless but it would not be nearly as pronounced. There's been a few comments about Xenophobe tone, there would likely have been more if we had cast a woman in the same role (but not as many, since it's a more 'appropriate' tone for a woman)

 

[CrowScape]

Here's the thing: No matter The validity of such criticism, if we had picked a male voice, even one that sounded far 'crazier', we would have gotten at most 10-20% of the complaining we've gotten now. I make no judgment about any individual critique but this is an observable enough fact that we literally accounted for it in our planning. That's all.

No, this is the thing: if you had said "We were going for more of an orc-horde version of 'militarist' than a Starship Trooper Sky Marshal type of 'militarist,'" there wouldn't be a problem. Instead, you decided to insult your audience.

And you keep doing it.

That high horse you're on? It's dead, surrounded in a cloud of flies, and only propped up by the pile of manure you've piled under it.

 

[Draconaes]

OK, I confess. Wiz and Draconaes are too smart for me. I said the voice was demented and unmilitary, but what I really meant was it's not a chap. And as we all know, being a chap is where it's at.

I love the exaggeration that comes into play whenever a topic like this comes up. I'm glad you realize that every statistical trend specifically implicates you, however. Contrary to what most feminists will tell you, it actually is all about you. Congrats on recognizing that.

No, this is the thing: if you had said "We were going for more of an orc-horde version of 'militarist' than a Starship Trooper Sky Marshal type of 'militarist,'" there wouldn't be a problem. Instead, you decided to insult your audience.

And you keep doing it.

That high horse you're on? It's dead, surrounded in a cloud of flies, and only propped up by the pile of manure you've piled under it.

Where did he insult anyone?

 

[Darkspysrival]

Here's the thing: No matter The validity of such criticism, if we had picked a male voice, even one that sounded far 'crazier', we would have gotten at most 10-20% of the complaining we've gotten now. I make no judgment about any individual critique but this is an observable enough fact that we literally accounted for it in our planning. That's all.

Wrong. If you had picked a male that sounded like Gordon Ramsey stubbed his toe and was having a tantrum, I, and I think many others, would have said "How the Hell is someone so undisciplined a military adviser?"

 

[Tyrannical Prince]

Here's the thing: No matter The validity of such criticism, if we had picked a male voice, even one that sounded far 'crazier', we would have gotten at most 10-20% of the complaining we've gotten now. I make no judgment about any individual critique but this is an observable enough fact that we literally accounted for it in our planning. That's all.

Can you even find one criticism about the female voice in the Utopia trailer? Just one? Surely you can find one. I mean, it's just one. If you can find one, I will surrender and accept your insult that I and others are nothing but...

 

[Hapchazzard]

Love all three samples, I think they fit their respective ethics perfectly. For the people complaining about the militarist tone - I think that all of the voices are supposed to capture the "essence" of the ethic/be fanatical versions of the ethic. If you made militarist highly disciplined, it would probably end up sounding very similar to authoritarian. Anyways, the point is moot since you can simply change to another voice set it you think it doesn't suit your empire. I sure as hell know I'll be using the militarist voice set for my next FP empire.

 

[nfmarque]

Here's the thing: No matter The validity of such criticism, if we had picked a male voice, even one that sounded far 'crazier', we would have gotten at most 10-20% of the complaining we've gotten now. I make no judgment about any individual critique but this is an observable enough fact that we literally accounted for it in our planning. That's all.

Wiz I like your statistics, especially when they are based on nothing, stronk math

 

[Refragmental]

Here's the thing: No matter The validity of such criticism, if we had picked a male voice, even one that sounded far 'crazier', we would have gotten at most 10-20% of the complaining we've gotten now. I make no judgment about any individual critique but this is an observable enough fact that we literally accounted for it in our planning. That's all.

You really seem to think little of the Stellaris community then. And that's upsetting.
Nobody here cares about SJW nonsense, and the first one to actually bring anything like that up has been you yourself.
Also, if it was a male voice the reactions would very likely been much the same. But that is "what if", irrelevant and a non-discussion.