Stellaris Dev Diary #63: Synthetic and Biological Ascension

[Aphil]

So if an authoritarian empire with caste system go the synthetic ascension way can have enslaved synths in their mines and happy synths on energy and research tiles?
In the same empire but without the synthetic ascension, could synths be enslaved?

As for the biological ascention
- are there still only two techs that grant a gene point? So atm there would be 7 points max.
- if you remove the intelligent trait would it free up the 2 points it used up?

I suppose the answer to everything is "probably". I don't see why a Caste system would stop acting like one once you ascend and actually it brings to light an interesting further advantage for synthetics I never considered before, assuming it's possible.

From what I know there are only two techs plus the bio ascension that give trait points. One of the advantages of the bio mastery though is the sequencing allowing you to add and remove both positive and negative traits which we can only assume add to or detract from your trait points. (It's the only way that their intended mechanic makes sense) so yes removing intelligent should give 2 trait points and adding weak should add a trait.

 

[Novacat]

Deviants - not a problem at all if you play Divine Mandate or Spiritualist/Fanatic Spiritualist
Fleeting - can be canceled out by Theocratic Oligarchy or almost entirely by an early societal tech
Sedentary - as you said, the all-time "i want free points" no brainer choice
Slow Breeders - can be somewhat lessened by Theocratic Republic and/or Fanatic Collectivist (less food consumption = more food = faster growth) and further negated by high food output (which should become easier since food will become a global resource in Banks/Utopia
Solitary - can be cancelled out by Theocratic Republic or Direct Democracy
Weak - very quickly cancelled out by the power Armour tech if i'm not mistaken

I might have missed some stuff, but i haven't slept in over 30 hours so take everything i say with a grain of salt lol

Fleeting - Horrible for a leadership caste, you want Venerable. Free pick in all other circumstances.
Deviant - You do realize they are overhauling ethics divergence, right?
Solitary - Ehh... Happiness is incredibly hard to increase, and considering the new ethics divergence rules, it may become a lot harder to get high happiness.

A lot of your focus is on "This can be cancelled out by that", but what you are not taking into account is that all other species will be able to take that as well, so you are still overall weaker in that category than another same-tech species, and that a lot of your 'solutions' are mutually exclusive. You can only have one government, for example.

 

[Czaristan]

This is the first 1.5/Utopia update I really don't like. The synthetic path especially feels extremely slap-shod. At least give us some cyborg portraits and a wider variety of synthetic portraits to use. I understand that it's extra work, but having a galaxy with 5 different robot empires that all look the same doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Beyond that, I think we should be able to terraform planets to machine worlds that are 100% habitability (maybe some other bonuses) to robots and 0% to everything else.

Also, with synthetic evolution, do you keep your racial traits? I think you should, or at least the social ones (communal, deviant, etc)

 

[Milten]

@ most people asking questions, you guys are forgetting to add @Wiz to get Wiz's attention. Though he's doing the stream atm anyhow.

edit: The stream doesn't seem to be live atm, thought there would be a stream.

He's in California on GDC this week and won't be doing any streams this time. And it's 6 am there as well, so he posted this diary without waking up.

 

[Illyrien]

+1 for the SMAC reference!

Dammit, where?

 

[bronze Void poison]

The synthetic path needs abit more to it in my opinion because it needs to be able to hit just as hard as the pyconic path

 

[ModZero]

Where?

Dammit, where?

Nerve Stapling

HtH, HaND

 

[Emraldis]

I really feel like these two ascension paths are lacking a lot compared to the psionic ascension... The psi ascension has events, special techs, interesting choices to make... These just have "here's an upgrade to your pops, have fun!". Which is pretty disappointing tbh.

 

[ulmont]

Additionally, Advanced Genemodding allows for the ability for non-Hive Mind empires to remove the Hive-Minded trait from Pops and for Hive Minds to add it to Pops, as mentioned in dev diary #62.

How does this work if Hive-Minded Pops can only exist in Hive-Minded empires, and vice-versa? Do you have a 2-year purge clock to add/remove the trait as appropriate or lose the pops?

 

[Name already in use]

As i said, more effort. And if i'm not mistaken that would still cause problems with xenophobia and the policies associated with it (but i wouldn't know for sure since i never play xenophobes)
(Not to mention keeping track of what species is what when colonizing since they all have the same portrait, that would be a minor annoyance)

Xenophobes do no longer see a gene modded subspecies as Xenos... It was fixed that way in a patch a while ago. (1.3? I don't remember)

Yes it is a little bit of micromanagement... once. After you're done making these species, you can use them over and over again without further gene modding. And since you have them on separate planet types than the original one you just have to find them in your empire.... If you have a planet count below three digits I trust everybody to at least remember ONE planet where they used them... if not, you might want to get checked for alzheimer's.

 

[moglus]

Fleeting - Horrible for a leadership caste, you want Venerable. Free pick in all other circumstances.
Deviant - You do realize they are overhauling ethics divergence, right?
Solitary - Ehh... Happiness is incredibly hard to increase, and considering the new ethics divergence rules, it may become a lot harder to get high happiness.

A lot of your focus is on "This can be cancelled out by that", but what you are not taking into account is that all other species will be able to take that as well, so you are still overall weaker in that category than another same-tech species, and that a lot of your 'solutions' are mutually exclusive. You can only have one government, for example.

I'm aware of the new ethics divergence rules, i was speaking of the game as is, as in the game that we actually know all the numbers of and can actually talk about in non hypotheticals.
But. Since the new traits in advanced genemodding are upgrades of existing good traits, it's somewhat safe to assume that the "mutual exclusiveness" rule of traits where you couldn't upgrade to venerable because you had enduring and so on must be going away in the update (which is good, that restriction was always a bit nonsensical )

 

[CrazedSeal]

I'm assuming there will events that come along with the ascension paths tailored to what you choose. Especially considering the fact that the Fallen Empires are said to have ascended once and look what happened to them.

 

[smjjames]

I'm assuming there will events that come along with the ascension paths tailored to what you choose. Especially considering the fact that the Fallen Empires are said to have ascended once and look what happened to them.

No, the Fallen Empires failed to ascend, which is why they're called stagnant ascendancies.

 

[Aries666]

So any chance for half robot-half species portraits? Do robot pops grow naturally or have to be produced when you fully transfer? And does gene modding still take forever- could be pretty annoying to unlock all this new stuff and have to wait 10+ years to implement it.

I just wanted to second this. I rarely care much for 'immersion' but cybernetic and synthetic portraits really need to be included as well.

 

[indalecio248]

@Wiz : I was kind of dismayed to see the synthetic ascension line's perks ending in the exact same art that synths use. Here are the various options that could happen there, prioritized by order of awesomeness, and therefore inversely prioritized by ease of implementation...

1. Each species portrait has an alternate synthetic version that activates when you ascend, so bird people have robots that look like robot bird people.
2. When you ascend, you get a choice of a few different synthetic "models" to use for your species.
3. When you ascend, you get a static model, but it is different than the regular robotic synthetics. You are an ascended synthetic.
4. When you ascend, you look exactly like a regular robotic synthetic.

Going to add one more option. For synthetic ascension, your people have all uploaded their brains to a computer. So your species still looks it once did, its just now transparent, like a hologram.

 

[Arkangilos]

Changeing your Energy needs in one step also seems more than harmful....
Getting -300 (a SMALL estimate about the Pop-count ~ 360 fan.mat.) Energy over night might kill you until you rebuilt all farms into energy. A period of weakness no other path offers.
(Except maybe bad shroud things, but thats one owns fault for gambling)

That sounds perfect actually.
Before you begin the transformation you destroy the food production and use propaganda to say it was a massive plague or disaster and so there is an empire wide famine. Despite the "best efforts" of the scientists, you can't figure out how to fix the food shortage. The only solution is to give up the flesh and upload yourself into a machine!
Then your species will be forced to do it so they don't starve and you look like a good guy

 

[saint242]

But there is still the question we have been asking since release: will we be able to re-name genemodded species?

 

[Birdy123]

I like the idea of Synth Ascension, but other than the name, there is no portrait difference between empires who went for Synth Ascension?

 

[Me_]

There seems to be some horrible Communist propaganda in the first screenshot - the implants will not be "free of cost". There is no such thing as "free" government services - they will pay for them in their taxes.

 

[Vahouth]

My first thoughts about synthetic ascension in this DD.

1. We are not getting cyborg skins. (devs are purposefully ignore questions about it)
2. We are not getting different synth portraits (for the same reason)
3. I would also expect a mild research boost for cyborgs, but it's still ok I guess...
4. Still no way to simulate a cybernetic/robotic hive aka the Borg or Geth. I don't see why a fully synthetic race cannot be driven by or be part of a single consciousness. (maybe in a future patch? Fingers crossed)

I wish I could be proven wrong.