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Stellaris Dev Diary #63: Synthetic and Biological Ascension

Hello everyone and welcome to another Stellaris dev diary. This week we'll be talking about Ascension again, specifically the Synthetic and Biological Ascension Paths. In dev diary #60 we talked about the Psionic Ascension Path and the associated Shroud. The Shroud was a fairly major mechanical addition to the game, which we felt was needed as Psionics lacked any such mechanic associated with them, unlike the other two. For this reason, the Biological and Synthetic Ascension Paths do not have the same degree of new mechanics associated with them, but rather focus on enhancing the existing mechanics (Genemodding and Robots) that they are tied to.

The Synthetic Ascension Path focuses on abandoning your frail biological forms for that of a perfect machine. The first step, the Flesh is Weak, requires the Droids technology and allows you to modify your entire population through a special project, turning them into cyborgs. This gives them an immediate +20% boost to habitability, as well as bonuses to mineral production and army damage, and also makes any leaders generated from those species have the Cyborg trait granting an additional +40 years of lifespan.
2017_03_01_5.png

2017_02_27_1.png


The next step, Synthetic Evolution, requires the ability to build Synths, and allows you to upgrade your cyborg population into fully mechanical forms, finally abandoning the frailty of flesh for the surety of synthetics. When it is complete, you will become a fully robotic empire, with a robotic primary species. Your population will benefit from all the advantages normally conferred to Synths in production and research, and all your leaders will be immortal, able to be killed only in battle or through events. You will also naturally no longer require Food for your synthetic population, instead being replaced by an Energy maintenance similar to regular Synths. You will also be able to name your new, gloriously post-biological people.
2017_03_01_1.png


The Biological Ascension Path focuses on mastery of DNA and evolution. The first step, Engineered Evolution, requires the Gene Tailoring technology and grants a major reduction to the cost and time required to genetically modify species, gives you +2 trait points, and also unlocks the ability to research the Gene Seed Purification technology which is otherwise unavailable (it can still be researched as normal for those who do not have the Utopia expansion), allowing recruitment of Gene Warriors.
2017_03_01_2.png


The next step, Evolutionary Mastery requires the Targeted Gene Expressions technology. It grants an additional +3 trait points, a further reduction in time and cost of genemodding, and unlocks the ability to research the Genetic Resequencing technology, which once researched unlocks Advanced Genemodding. With Advanced Genemodding you will be able to add negative traits and remove positive traits, allowing you to completely reshape species at your whim. It also unlocks five new traits that are exclusively available to the Biological Ascension Path:
Robust: Upgrades from Extremely Adaptable, adds +30% habitability and an extra +30 years of lifespan.
Fertile: Upgrades from Rapid Breeders, gives -30% growth time and +5% happiness
Erudite: Upgrades from Intelligent, gives +20% science production and +1 leader skill levels.
Delicious: Makes the species delicious and nutritious, granting +100% food yield from Processing and Livestock.
Nerve Stapled: Removes the ability of the species to feel happiness or sadness. Happiness is disabled and Food/Mineral production increased, but adds major penalties to other resource production.
2017_03_01_3.png

2017_03_01_4.png


Additionally, Advanced Genemodding allows for the ability for non-Hive Mind empires to remove the Hive-Minded trait from Pops and for Hive Minds to add it to Pops, as mentioned in dev diary #62.

That's all for today! Next week we'll be talking a variety of smaller features coming in the Banks update, including the ability to terraform Mars.
 

TheDungen

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I didnt say its cybernetics more powerfull of the two.
I'm not talking about power. I'm talking about versatility. Cybernetics is very much a one trick pony while the genetics open open up massive new avenues.
 

Spidee

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Question:
Will the mechanical ascention be a species/race right? I am thinking about a nasty empire, with caste systems, where only the Chosen are allowed to Ascend, inferior races doomed to be in perpetual slavery. Doable?
 

moglus

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So....

Not sure if I am the only one who noticed this, but, the 5 trait limit has been applied to genetic engineering as well, which is actually a pretty huge nerf.

You're right (it sure seems that way, but then again, everything we see is WIP, so that might be removed in the release version for all we know) which is a pretty big nerf considering you can now take the "not so bad" negative traits to get more points. But on the other side of the coin, there has to be a limit. Otherwise you could just cheese the "not so bad" negative traits to get an insane amount of points for basically free and get all the REALLY REALLY good traits.
 

moglus

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I'm not talking about power. I'm talking about versatility. Cybernetics is very much a one trick pony while the genetics open open up massive new avenues.
Yes But isn't Robotic/Mechanical THE best species trait in the game tho? i mean...
f91d77765e8cf0d51081834ea307a785.png

It's GOOD
(along with immortality)
 

Spidee

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Events: People resisting the ascension?
Factions?

Could we have factions, once you get to a certain tech level, which would push you to take the cyber path or the biological one? maybe even start a civil war about the future of the species? Or some events leading up to those decision.
 

klingonadmiral

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Mechanical ascension seems ... lame.

Why do they still cling to chain their minds to the feeble humanoid form?
 

Me_

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Can we make species other than our primary into synths with ascension?
 

moglus

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Can we make species other than our primary into synths with ascension?
One would hope there's events for that since there's events for other species in your empire to psionically awaken once you complete the psionic ascension.
 

Daffius

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The next step, Synthetic Evolution, requires the ability to build Synths, and allows you to upgrade your cyborg population into fully mechanical forms, finally abandoning the frailty of flesh for the surety of synthetics. When it is complete, you will become a fully robotic empire, with a robotic primary species.

Will there be a difference between your newly robotised pops and existing robot pops?
Or will existing robots in your empire become primary pop culture?
If the later, would other robots in other empires be considered your primary pop as well?
 

Name already in use

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Yes But isn't Robotic/Mechanical THE best species trait in the game tho? i mean...
f91d77765e8cf0d51081834ea307a785.png

It's GOOD
(along with immortality)

Noone doubts, that this is good, but you can already get all this stuff WITHOUT wasting 2 Ascension Perks.
Even If you ascended biologically, you can build Synths, the only thing you will gain are immortal Leaders.

And to be honest, would you have rather 1 mediocre Leader that is immortal or 1 Leader that is awesome, but dies somehow just to be replaced by another Leader that is also awesome? (psi gives +10% research speed to scientists... ABOVE spark of genius... your scientists will be better than the curator ones )
 

Milten

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Noone doubts, that this is good, but you can already get all this stuff WITHOUT wasting 2 Ascension Perks.
Even If you Ascended Biologically, you can Build Synths, the only thing you Will gain are Immortal Leaders.
Hmm, what happened with "Leadership - Androids allowed" policy? You can have synth leaders without ascension perks.
 

moglus

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Noone doubts, that this is good, but you can already get all this stuff WITHOUT wasting 2 Ascension Perks.
Even If you Ascended Biologically, you can Build Synths, the only thing you Will gain are Immortal Leaders.

And to be honest, would you have rather 1 Mediocre Leader that is immortal or 1 Leader that is awesome but dies somehow just to be replaced by another Leader that is also awesome?(psi gives +10% research speed to scientists... ABOVE spark of genius... your scientists will be better than the curator ones )

I guess one of the main gains is the ability to colonize... everywhere. You can grow at a much more exponential rate than organics can (or, at least with a lot less effort since for them it would take micromanaging multiple species or sub species (which could lead to other problems) and maybe robots have new traits too? we don't know.

EDIT: I guess when i think about it. Less micro is one of the main gains. Since you can micro organics to be good at specific things (even better than synths at some things with the new traits) but synths are just overall really good at whatever you ask them to do.
 

scaper12123

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Thinking about it, I think the synth path ought to get some sort of little extra alongside changing the entire species to robots. That seems just a bit lame if it's just that all by itself. I mean, being a robot is cool and all but what else will we get out of our obsession for synthetic bodies? Will we be able to build ourselves into monstrous war machines? How will this factor into populating worlds? Robots could technically inhabit any planet with the right technology, even barren uninhabitable ones. Will we be able to mess with our robotic bodies and add/remove traits like in the biological path? (obviously to a lesser extent, but it would make sense to be able to specialize certain robot populations)
 

Dan_Daniel2000

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So....

Not sure if I am the only one who noticed this, but, the 5 trait limit has been applied to genetic engineering as well, which is actually a pretty huge nerf.

One of the questions I have, though, and was never answered definitively, is weither or not the Ascension paths are mutually exclusive. As it stands, seems like the only one that would cause compatibility issues would be the Synthetic second evolution.
Finally there are the three 'Species Endgame' paths: The biological path, the spiritual path and the synthetic path. These three paths each consist of two perks, the first of which unlocks access to the second once a number of other pre-requisites have been met. The paths are mutually exclusive, and once you start heading down one of them, the other two are locked off.
I dont know how that isnt clear. Taken from Dev Diary #56 Ascension Perks
 

Novacat

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You're right (it sure seems that way, but then again, everything we see is WIP, so that might be removed in the release version for all we know) which is a pretty big nerf considering you can now take the "not so bad" negative traits to get more points. But on the other side of the coin, there has to be a limit. Otherwise you could just cheese the "not so bad" negative traits to get an insane amount of points for basically free and get all the REALLY REALLY good traits.

You already could cheese it in race creation and pick up the good traits later, but I find there is not really very many "Not so bad" negative traits in the game, Sedentary is the only one I can think of that certainly will not hurt you at any stage of the game and any strategy, while there are a few others that are also free picks based on your circumstances (Weak, Slow Breeders, Decadent, Nonadaptive, etc), but there is not really that many.

If anything, after thinking about it, I kind of feel that the trait pick limit is a solution searching for a problem, even my best attempt to cheese, assuming unlimited trait picks and caste systems, I never get more than 10 traits total. For example, a ruler caste with Venerable, Charismatic (Not in the trait description, but you get a relations bonus to all species), Resilient (Militia troops are always the ruling species), Strong (Kind of meh, but also buffs militia and gives you more flexibility in recruiting infantry), Nonadaptive, Sedentary, and Slow Breeders.

I find the trait pick limit will primarily hurt attempts to make all-rounder species with a lot of low-cost positive traits.

I dont know how that isnt clear. Taken from Dev Diary #56 Ascension Perks
I completely missed that, thanks.
 

Aphil

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Personally I love all of the ascension paths, I think they're actually pretty well balanced.

For me my favorite will probably be Synthetic Ascension since I love to play Tech heavy empires. I think that one significant advantage of the Synthetic Ascension is that you can effectively "feed" your populations by using a Dyson Sphere.

I know some people won't always get the perk for Megastructures but for people like me who will, it will be pretty fantastic synergy. Not to mention that Orbital Habitats are really good for Science and Energy, you could conceivably build energy farms in space which would be extremely productive given your synthetics +20% to everything.

I'm glad that I'm so torn between the different paths though, I can really see a benefit to everything and no one path seems obviously superior to the other which is nice.
 

moglus

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Thinking about it, I think the synth path ought to get some sort of little extra alongside changing the entire species to robots. That seems just a bit lame if it's just that all by itself. I mean, being a robot is cool and all but what else will we get out of our obsession for synthetic bodies? Will we be able to build ourselves into monstrous war machines? How will this factor into populating worlds? Robots could technically inhabit any planet with the right technology, even barren uninhabitable ones. Will we be able to mess with our robotic bodies and add/remove traits like in the biological path? (obviously to a lesser extent, but it would make sense to be able to specialize certain robot populations)

I'd love to see robots get new traits, like bio ascension does, and how hive minds have unique civics.