Stellaris Dev Diary #55 - Unity and Traditions

[Pyramid_Head]

There are other ways to gain unity as well, some ethos/tradition specific.

But the resource is universal. Or is there a discount? Like, Constantly purging xenos would make purity cheaper or constant wars make conquest cheaper?

 

[Pyramid_Head]

@Wiz

Will any of the traditions lock out other traditions? I couldn't imagine Harmony and Purity working together for example (outside of Beyond Earth that is!)

Why not? Have two races work tirelessly on exterminating other species. Like a crusade, where lots of countries united for a single goal.

 

[BlackUmbrellas]

Here's hoping we don't end up with the optimal strategy of making planets that are literally mausoleums, monuments and government buildings all over

Funny, because the first thing my mind went to was that it'd be really neat if the mechanic encouraged you to redevelop your homeworld into a proper "bureaucratic hub" with all your tombs and ministries and such on it.

 

[Wizzington]

THE INFORMATION IN THE RUSSIAN LOCALISATION FILE IS FROM AN EARLY WIP VERSION AND NOT FINAL, FURTHER POSTING OF IT WILL RESULT IN INFRACTIONS.

 

[Tha Pink Guy]

Nothing for like a month? I'll miss you guys

 

[BlackUmbrellas]

Ah, the classic idea that a player has to be penalised by game-design if they do good.

It is one thing to design a game where the player (in whatever game) to face harder and tougher challenges when the player gets stronger. It is a totally different thing to arbitrary give the player penalties with no logical back-ground simply because they are doing well.

If traditions are designed so that there is little or limited effect of what the player has done to tradition vs the player plays it small and harmonious, then we can not talk about a *tradition* if you have actually not engaged in that tradition.

Unity tradition shouldn't be gathered simply by sitting in your home planet, it should be gathered from expanding and purging the other races. How else could it be called a tradition of Unity?

Supremacy tradition shouldn't be gathered simply by sitting in your home planet, it should be gathered from waging wars, hunting pirates and anomalies. How else could it be called a tradition of Supremacy?

Etc, etc.

Now if there was a tradition called "Piety", then I would understand how you can gather that tradition by sitting back and not doing anything. But for anything else?

"Unity" is the resource that lets you buy traditions. It isn't a tradition itself. You accumulate Unity over time, with a few ways to increase it based on structures and certain unlocked Traditions. You can unlock traditions by spending Unity, and the cost to unlock traditions increases based on multiple factors- including how far you've spread yourself across the galaxy (because a larger empire is less unified).

 

[Razzlie]

This is amazing, I can't wait for 1.5!

 

[Comte de Verdun]

Just curious: Will Fallen Empires get a preset combination of these traditions, or will they start from scratch like all others?

 

[Garfazz Steamfang]

Make happen an ecologist tradition please!

5 bonuses (hope they are policies and buildings) seems a bit weak. Hope they are going to add more in future updates!

 

[Wizzington]

The stuff in the russian translation file is WIP and was accidentally included, please do not post it here.

 

[Gamengervi]

No, but costs increase with every tradition adopted.

I was going to make a long post responding to this quote, but I feel like I should wait until I have more information on the different traditions before I go on a tirade. I have to agree with Heretic Saint in that all empires being able to adopt all traditions does seem like it would create a lot of culturally similar empires as opposed to a lot of unique ones, which 'traditions' should do.

But one thing I would like to bring up is another slightly similar game mechanic, and that's policies. Certain policies are restricted by your government's main ethos type. For example, I can't enact slavery policies if my empire's main ethos is individualist and I can't enact an aggressive first contact protocol if my main ethos is pacifist. Why are traditions any different? Unless they're going to change the way policies work, it seems deathly inconstant. If anything, traditions should be more heavily restricted by ethos based simply on their name. Maybe I'm just arguing semantics though.

 

[Rubido]

An early version of the Traditions was accidentally translated and included in the 1.4 Russian translation. Since nothing there is final I don't want this thread to descend into a bunch of arguments about the balance of numbers that are likely to change anyway, so I banned discussion of it here. You can look up the info on the Stellaris reddit if you want to check it out for yourself.

Damn them Russian hackers! They are everywhere!

 

[I_am_Nemo]

Funny, because the first thing my mind went to was that it'd be really neat if the mechanic encouraged you to redevelop your homeworld into a proper "bureaucratic hub" with all your tombs and ministries and such on it.

I was thinking the same thing. Right now, homeworlds get maybe an empire unique or two; other than that, i's just higher level production. It'd be nice to see home worlds, and even core worlds, get more distinct function and flavor. Homeworld as bureaucratic hub, core planets as cultural centers or pillars of industry, etc.

 

[Gamengervi]

Also I don't get why Civ was mentioned so many times when it's clearly EU4 thing.

Because it's extremely similar to CiV's social policy trees and that game came out three years before EUIV. There's nothing wrong with that.

 

[Saviour of Galaxy]

Have two races work

Not pure. PURGE!

Im imagining "Mammalian superiority" instead of "Human superiority" when considering Harmony and Purity.

LOL!

"Pittyfull plant subcreature. Bow before superior animal masterrace"

 

[BlackUmbrellas]

Awesome feature. The social policy trees were one of my favorite parts of CiV and I'm glad you guys are adopting the same sort of idea. I have a couple of thoughts though. Firstly, I feel like the harmony and purity tree contradict each other. One promotes a diverse and happy population while the other promotes species domination. Obviously we can't read the tradition descriptions right now, but if they're not going to be exclusive please try to make it so that the descriptions from one don't contradict the descriptions from the other.

Again, it's been specifically noted that your Traditions relate to your civilization's ethos- if you take Purity traditions with a xenophilic population, they will be Upset.

 

[Swuul]

Wiz said that unity can be obtained by other methods than just sitting and waiting for it to build up.

Yeah, but in another thread he also said Sectors are working ok, so I am not sure if he is always serious with his comments.

 

[Heretic Saint]

Even assuming that they didn't tie Traditions to existing ethics (which they may or may not have, since Traditions are apparently one way to encourage a change of empire Ethics), we do know that enacting Traditions counter to your populace's ethics will make them unhappy.
If you're a militant xenophobe empire, enacting a bunch of pacifist or xenophile Traditions in an attempt to pacify your population will probably have the exact oppposite effect.

Coincidentally, this is another major reason for why it should be possible to drop Traditions. Otherwise you're really maneuvering yourself into a corner here as you'll be stuck with Traditions working against your actual population, causing permanent penalties, or you'll just try to enforce your original Ethos as long as possible to avoid negative repercussions of a change.

I hope this feature doesn't end up sabotaging the potential of Ethos shift, either forced (Factions) or voluntary (emergent storytelling).

 

[Gamengervi]

Anyway, like I mentioned already an umpteenton times, a small group is more in unision, and sure, they should get more Unity points. But if those Unity points are then used to buy Traditions which the small group has absolutely no history of, while the larger group with a long history in the Tradition in question is given a malus, then we are on weak ice. It fails logic, and it is a method to arbitrary punish a player doing well, both which are not signs of good game design.

I have my own issues with the way this system works and how it isn't realistic from a real-world perspective, but it's not bad game design, even if it could be improved in some ways. It allows smaller empires to excel in certain areas when they lack strength in others. A big issue in Stellaris is snowballing, where certain empires just get larger and larger with very little that can stop them. This not only gives the player some incentive to play tall and expand cautiously — less they sacrifice unity, but is a very, 'very' minor nerf to larger empires that have enough firepower to level half the galaxy anyway. The problem I think you're having is mixing real-world logic with game design, something I'm often very guilty of even in this thread. Regardless, choices are important and giving players options is good game design. You can have less unity and more land or you can have more unity and less land. Think of it as... overextension.

 

[Shock360]

Art.

BUT IF THEY WORK ON ART THEN THAT MEANS THAT THE PROGRAMMERS CANT FIX THE AI WHICH MEANS THE DESIGNERS CANT PLAN DLC WHICH MEANS ONLY COSMETIC DLC WILL COME OUT! I KNOW ITS TRUE BECAUSE PEOPLE SAID SO!