• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
Status
Not open for further replies.

Stellaris Dev Diary #54 - Ethics Rework

Hello everyone and welcome to another Stellaris development diary. Now that 1.4 is out, we can finally start properly talking about the 1.5 'Banks' update, which will be a major update with an accompanying (unannounced) expansion. As of right now we cannot provide any details on when 1.5 will come out, or anything about the unannounced expansion, so please don't ask. :)

Today's topic is a number of changes coming to ethics in the 1.5 update. Everything in this diary is part of the free update. Please note that values shown in screenshots are always non-final.

Authoritarian vs Egalitarian
One of the things in Stellaris I was never personally happy with was the Collectivism vs Individualism ethic. While interesting conceptually, the mechanics that the game presented for the ethics simply did not match either their meanings or flavor text, meaning you ended up with a Collectivist ethos that was somehow simultaneously egalitarian and 100% in on slavery, while Individualism was a confused jumble between liberal democratic values and randian free-market capitalism. For this reason we've decided to rebrand these ethics into something that should both be much more clear in its meaning, and match the mechanics as they are.

Authoritarian replaces Collectivist and represents belief in hierarchial rule and orderly, stratified societies. Authoritarian pops tolerate slavery and prefer to live in autocracies.
Egalitarian replaces Individualist and represents belief in individual rights and a level playing field. Egalitarian pops dislike slavery and elitism and prefer to live in democracies.

While I understand this may cause some controversy and will no doubt spark debate over people's interpretation of words like Authoritarian and Individualist, I believe that we need to work with the mechanics we have, and as it stand we simply do not have good mechanics for a Collectivism vs Individualism axis while the mechanics we have fit the rebranded ethics if not perfectly then at least a whole lot better.
2016_12_08_1.png

2016_12_08_5.png


Pop Ethics Rework
Another mechanic that never quite felt satisfying is the ethics divergence mechanic. Not only is it overly simplified with just a single value determining if pops go towards or from empire ethics, the shift rarely makes sense: Why would xenophobe alien pops diverge away from xenophobe just because they're far away from the capital of a xenophobic empire? Furthermore, the fact that pops could have anything from one to three different ethics made it extremely difficult to actually quantify what any individual pop's ethics actually mean for how they relate to the empire. For this reason we've decided to revamp the way pop ethics work in the following way:
  • Each pop in your empire will now only embrace a single, non-fanatic ethic. At the start of the game, your population will be made of up of only the ethics that you picked in species setup, but as your empire grows, its population will become more diverse in their views and wants.
  • Each ethic now has an attraction value for each pop in your empire depending on both the empire's situation and their own situation. For example, enslaved pops tend to become more egalitarian, while pops living around non-enslaved aliens become more xenophilic (and pops living around enslaved aliens more xenophobic). Conversely, fighting a lot of wars will increase the attraction for militarism across your entire empire, while an alien empire purging pops of a particular species will massively increase the attraction for xenophobic for the species being purged.
  • Over time, the ethics of your pops will drift in such a way that it roughly matches the overall attraction of that value. For example, if your materialist attraction sits at 10% for decades, it's likely that after that time, around 10% of your pops will be materialist. There is some random factor so it's likely never going to match up perfectly, but the system is built to try and go towards the mean, so the more overrepresented an ethic is compared to its attraction, the more likely pops are to drift away from it and vice versa.
2016_12_08_3.png


So what does the single ethic per pop mean in terms of how it affects pop happiness? Well, this brings us to the new faction system, which we will cover briefly in this dev diary, and get back to more in depth later.

Faction Rework
One thing we feel is currently missing from Stellaris is agency for your pops. Sure, they have their ethics and will get upset if you have policies that don't suit them, but that's about the only way they have of expressing their desires, and there is no tie-in between pop ethics and the politics systems in the game. To address this and also to create a system that will better fit the new pop ethics, we've decided to revamp the faction system in the following manner:
  • Factions are no longer purely rebel groupings, but instead represent political parties, popular movements and other such interest groups, and mostly only consist of pops of certain ethics. For example, the Supremacist faction desires complete political dominance for their own species, and is made up exclusively of Xenophobic pops, while the Isolationist faction wants diplomatic isolation and a strong defense, and can be joined by both Pacifist and Xenophobe pops. You do not start the game with any factions, but rather they will form over the course of the game as their interests become relevant
  • Factions have issues related to their values and goals, and how well the empire responds to those issues will determine the overall happiness level of the faction. For example, the Supremacists want the ruler to be of their species and are displeased by the presence of free alien populations in the empire. They will also get a temporary happiness boost whenever you defeat alien empires in war.
  • The happiness level of a faction determines the base happiness of all pops belonging to it. This means that where any pop not belonging to a faction has a base happiness of 50%, a pop belonging to a faction that have their happiness reduced to 35% because of their issues will have a base happiness of only 35% before any other modifiers are applied, meaning that displeasing a large and influential faction can result in vastly reduced productivity across your empire. As part of this, happiness effects from policies, xenophobia, slavery, etc have been merged into the faction system, so engaging in alien slavery will displease certain factions instead of having each pop individually react to it.
  • Factions have an influence level determined by the number of pops that belong to it. In addition to making its pops happier, a happy faction will provide an influence boost to their empire.
2016_12_08_4.png

2016_12_08_2.png


We will come back to factions in greater detail in a later dev diary, going over topics such as how separatists and rebellious slaves will work, and how factions can be used to change your empire ethics, but for now we are done for today. Next week we'll be talking about another new feature that we have dubbed 'Traditions and Unity'. See you then!
 
Last edited:
  • 367
  • 53
  • 17
Reactions:

BlackUmbrellas

Field Marshal
33 Badges
Nov 22, 2016
9.311
3.678
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Prison Architect
  • Cities: Skylines - Campus
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall - Revelations
  • Prison Architect: Psych Ward
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Island Bound
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Surviving Mars
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Teleglitch: Die More Edition
  • Crusader Kings II
So, if I understand this right, every pop (except the ones you start with) now have only one single ethic, and that ethic is always non-fanatic?
No POP unit ever starts with more than one ethic- your empire's population will begin a proportional mix of your government's ethics, and will then begin to drift from there based on various relevant factors.

So no more Fanatic militaris+Xenophobe pops? either militarist, or xenophobe, and never any fanatics?
Yes.

I assume, that you reworked all the ethics to fit that system, right? I mean Materialist pops got a bonus to research output on their tile, and this one was higher when they were fanatic. And of course the growth time for Spiritualist pops, wich was even better with fanatics. Now that pops only can have a single non fanatic ethos, I'm sure you rebalanced that stuff, right?
I can't see how they wouldn't have- they're not going to gut half the POP mechanics and then not replace them with anything else. It's a total overhaul to the mechanic- they'll have taken that functionality into account somehow.



So, each race can have their own supremacy faction, do I understand this correctly? And each of this factions desires to take controll of the empire, wich means their species will become the dominant one, and their ethics will become the empires ethics, is this correct?
Species don't have inherent ethics and POPs only have one given ethic, so I can't imagine that's how it works. They're gonna explain how changes to your government's ethics work in a later Dev Diary.
 

alphamikefox

First Lieutenant
85 Badges
Apr 27, 2016
202
262
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Season pass
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Premium edition
  • Surviving Mars
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Cities: Skylines - Campus
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Deluxe edition
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Victoria 2
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Magicka: Wizard Wars Founder Wizard
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
I like everything proposed in this dev diary except for one significant thing:

Please don't *replace* collectivist and individualist with authoritarian and egalitarian, but add the latter two as a new axis. By removing fanatic collectivist specifically you remove the entire concept of hive-mind gameplay style, which I prefer to play. I think this is a pretty big deal when you have a whole species portrait group dedicated to insectoids. Individualist can still have it's place in the sun too, and there's no reason in my mind that collective authoritarian, collective egalitarian, individual authoritarian, etc. are all incompatible, I just haven't thought through yet how they pair up exactly. I imagine that new governments would be needed as well, but more content is not a bad thing in my book
 
  • 9
  • 2
Reactions:

BlackUmbrellas

Field Marshal
33 Badges
Nov 22, 2016
9.311
3.678
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Prison Architect
  • Cities: Skylines - Campus
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall - Revelations
  • Prison Architect: Psych Ward
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Island Bound
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Surviving Mars
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Teleglitch: Die More Edition
  • Crusader Kings II
I like everything proposed in this dev diary except for one significant thing:

Please don't *replace* collectivist and individualist with authoritarian and egalitarian, but add the latter two as a new axis. By removing fanatic collectivist specifically you remove the entire concept of hive-mind gameplay style, which I prefer to play. I think this is a pretty big deal when you have a whole species portrait group dedicated to insectoids. Individualist can still have it's place in the sun too, and there's no reason in my mind that collective authoritarian, collective egalitarian, individual authoritarian, etc. are all incompatible, I just haven't thought through yet how they pair up exactly. I imagine that new governments would be needed as well, but more content is not a bad thing in my book
It's already been explained at length by the devs that they don't have a mechanic to tie "individualism vs. collectivism" to- there's not a good way to represent it in-game..
 
  • 10
  • 1
Reactions:

TothAval

Second Lieutenant
53 Badges
May 27, 2016
101
192
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Surviving Mars
  • Imperator: Rome - Magna Graecia
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Age of Wonders
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife Pre-Order
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Shadowrun: Hong Kong
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Sign Up
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Deluxe edition
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Premium edition
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Season pass
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Victoria 2
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Mount & Blade: With Fire and Sword
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
It's already been explained at length by the devs that they don't have a mechanic to tie "individualism vs. collectivism" to- there's not a good way to represent it in-game..

maybe individualists and collectivists should become some sort of species trait instead of an government ethic. i think this would be a better place for them anyway.


Edit: they should offer something different from the current traits though, which will return us to ground zero, cause right now there is now suitable mechanic in place ^^
 
  • 3
  • 2
Reactions:

BlackUmbrellas

Field Marshal
33 Badges
Nov 22, 2016
9.311
3.678
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Prison Architect
  • Cities: Skylines - Campus
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall - Revelations
  • Prison Architect: Psych Ward
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Island Bound
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Surviving Mars
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Teleglitch: Die More Edition
  • Crusader Kings II
maybe individualists and collectivists should become some sort of species trait instead of an government ethic. i think this would be a better place for them anyway.

Edit: they should offer something different from the current traits though, which will return us to ground zero, cause right now there is now suitable mechanic in place ^^
What new mechanic would you propose for new ethics to govern? Keeping ethos limited in number and clear in relation to each other allows much clearer gameplay and reading of other empires and how they relate to yours in opinion and practices.
 
  • 1
Reactions:

Agamemnic

Major
23 Badges
Jun 21, 2016
514
408
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • BATTLETECH - Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Tyranny - Bastards Wound
  • BATTLETECH
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Tyranny: Gold Edition
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Tyranny - Tales from the Tiers
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
This is an excellent development. The devs just keep making this game better. Haters gonna hate, I'm just gonna keep playing. cant wait

Edit: fanboyism aside, please get the new update and expansion thoroughly beta-tested. Some of the bugs on 1.4 are just horrific.
 
Last edited:
  • 2
Reactions:

grandad1982

Field Marshal
103 Badges
May 1, 2012
3.562
5.180
  • Sengoku
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Knights of Pen and Paper +1 Edition
  • March of the Eagles
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Semper Fi
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Sword of the Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • For the Motherland
  • Cities in Motion 2
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Divine Wind
  • Stellaris
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • 500k Club
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • Victoria 2
  • Teleglitch: Die More Edition
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Europa Universalis IV
Lovely changes, this is the kind of direction I was hoping Stellaris would take from the start.

A few concerns that I've seen others raze are one I would like to echo.

First how will this all work with sectors? I can see it being quite frustrating to havefaction issues becasue your sector is doing something stupid.

Second, how will info about POPs ethics and factions be displayed om map or on planet? Generally info delivery feels a bit lacking in Stellaris so I hope this has been thought of.

A final thing unrelated to the DD is..... please add a ship macro builder and extra bonus cockies for a fleet template as well!!!!
 

Yenzen

Stagnant Descendant
48 Badges
Jul 23, 2012
3.642
5.320
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Divine Wind
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • 500k Club
  • Victoria 2
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
Lovely changes, this is the kind of direction I was hoping Stellaris would take from the start.

A few concerns that I've seen others raze are one I would like to echo.

First how will this all work with sectors? I can see it being quite frustrating to havefaction issues becasue your sector is doing something stupid.

Second, how will info about POPs ethics and factions be displayed om map or on planet? Generally info delivery feels a bit lacking in Stellaris so I hope this has been thought of.

A final thing unrelated to the DD is..... please add a ship macro builder and extra bonus cockies for a fleet template as well!!!!

A problem with fleet template will probably be programming it to make proper use of the specialized fleet production facilities (eg, make the fleet as cheaply as possible, build battleships on the planet with the +5% armour rare material).
 

TothAval

Second Lieutenant
53 Badges
May 27, 2016
101
192
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Surviving Mars
  • Imperator: Rome - Magna Graecia
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Age of Wonders
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife Pre-Order
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Shadowrun: Hong Kong
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Sign Up
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Deluxe edition
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Premium edition
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Season pass
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Victoria 2
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Mount & Blade: With Fire and Sword
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
What new mechanic would you propose for new ethics to govern? Keeping ethos limited in number and clear in relation to each other allows much clearer gameplay and reading of other empires and how they relate to yours in opinion and practices.

wasn't referring to government ethic. just saying in my opinion individualism and collectivism are more traits than ethics, but there are already similar traits (conformists, don't no the other in english) in place. Wiz said they will maybe readd them as ethics, but they now have no decent mechanic at hand. i realised in the edit that this would also be the case in traits, because there already are such traits and moving it wouldn't do any good.

i consider keeping the ethic weel as clear as possible a good thing, although i wouldn't consider upping it up from 4 to 5 mutual exclusive pairs overcrowded either.
 

grandad1982

Field Marshal
103 Badges
May 1, 2012
3.562
5.180
  • Sengoku
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Knights of Pen and Paper +1 Edition
  • March of the Eagles
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Semper Fi
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Sword of the Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • For the Motherland
  • Cities in Motion 2
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Divine Wind
  • Stellaris
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • 500k Club
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • Victoria 2
  • Teleglitch: Die More Edition
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Europa Universalis IV
A problem with fleet template will probably be programming it to make proper use of the specialized fleet production facilities (eg, make the fleet as cheaply as possible, build battleships on the planet with the +5% armour rare material).

Yes. After all should a BB with kinetics favor a ship yard that makes building a BB cheaper/faster or one that boosts kinetic strength? I'm sure there is a solution but the macro builder would work just fine as longs as there are informative tool tips based on what you have selected to build.
 

BlackUmbrellas

Field Marshal
33 Badges
Nov 22, 2016
9.311
3.678
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Prison Architect
  • Cities: Skylines - Campus
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall - Revelations
  • Prison Architect: Psych Ward
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Island Bound
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Surviving Mars
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Teleglitch: Die More Edition
  • Crusader Kings II
wasn't referring to government ethic. just saying in my opinion individualism and collectivism are more traits than ethics, but there are already ethics in place. Wiz said they will maybe readd them as ethics, but they now have no decent mechanic at hand. i realised in the edit that this is also the case in traits, because there already are such traits and moving it wouldn't do any good.

i consider keeping the ethic weel as clear as possible a good thing, although i wouldn't consider upping it up from 4 to 5 mutual exclusive pairs overcrowded either.
I'd say that ultimately hive-style organizations are treated as much more of an "RP thing" in Stellaris- there's an AI personality that's fluffed as one despite no mechanical representation, and the default races include the Jehet'ma, which are huge fungal macrocolonies.

Basically, I've RPed a few of my civilizations as various forms of eusocial or hive-minded society. It might be better (or indeed, hard not to) keep things that way, given the mechanical limitations of the game. Again, every species needs to be integratable by every other, which demands a baseline psychology treated as basically human or human-compatible.
 
  • 3
Reactions:

Yenzen

Stagnant Descendant
48 Badges
Jul 23, 2012
3.642
5.320
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Divine Wind
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • 500k Club
  • Victoria 2
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
wasn't referring to government ethic. just saying in my opinion individualism and collectivism are more traits than ethics, but there are already similar traits (conformists, don't no the other in english) in place. Wiz said they will maybe readd them as ethics, but they now have no decent mechanic at hand. i realised in the edit that this would also be the case in traits, because there already are such traits and moving it wouldn't do any good.

i consider keeping the ethic weel as clear as possible a good thing, although i wouldn't consider upping it up from 4 to 5 mutual exclusive pairs overcrowded either.

Well, Individualism <----> Collectivism could be sort of an innate trait you had to select between.

It'd create some interesting dynamics though. What is a democracy to do when it "liberates" a hive mind being from its controller? How can it possible learn to behave as a proper citizen? is it okay to use it almost as a robot? Should some sort of mental conditioning be used to "teach" it independence?

At the same time, if a hive mind captures a colony of non-hiveminders. What should it do? Permit an enclave of conscious servants? Mind control them? Isn't that wrong when the hive mind species naturally forms a system of few conscious beings and many workers and the captured people do not?

If such a thing was introduced though, the hive mind species should have entirely different gameplay than other empires. I sort of miss that a bit, since there isn't much difference between playing a fanatically collectivist/spiritualist Empire or a Fanatically Individualist democracy.

I used to be against such things as spiritualism having specific religious gameplay, but I've changed my mind - I hope game development eventually means greater differences in gameplay for different ethics.
 
  • 5
Reactions:

jose2534

The Lost Chevalier, lord of [REDACTED]
95 Badges
May 14, 2016
681
534
29
www.youtube.com
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • BATTLETECH - Digital Deluxe Edition
  • BATTLETECH: Flashpoint
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • BATTLETECH: Heavy Metal
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • BATTLETECH
  • Surviving Mars
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Cities: Skylines - Campus
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • BATTLETECH: Season pass
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Magicka
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Surviving Mars: Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Mount & Blade: With Fire and Sword
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
Having in consideration that egalitarian vs authoritarian has tackle the problem with Individualist vs Colectivist, I just have an idea:


What about a new weal that symbolize the “Psyche" of a species, being "Individual" or "Collectivist" (Hive mind), "Emphatic" " Apathetic", "Hard rational" "Sentimentalist", to say some examples, some of the choices. Something that it doesn't affect the government but the pops forever until a tech called “mind control” or “Brain alteration” is research (And being a policy that forbids or encourage those usages of technology).
 
  • 4
Reactions:

Yenzen

Stagnant Descendant
48 Badges
Jul 23, 2012
3.642
5.320
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Divine Wind
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • 500k Club
  • Victoria 2
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
Yes. After all should a BB with kinetics favor a ship yard that makes building a BB cheaper/faster or one that boosts kinetic strength? I'm sure there is a solution but the macro builder would work just fine as longs as there are informative tool tips based on what you have selected to build.

I can imagine a system of designating specific star port to specific ships in a fleet builder, though it'd be a bit cumbersome to set up for the player and... I'm not a programmer, so i don't know about programming it.

Eg: Basic corvette #1 can be made in star port A, B and C, #2 only in C, Battleship #1 and #2 must be made in D.

Or perhaps the reverse, on star ports classify it as a "standard producer" of some ships such as Standard Corvette #1 and #2.
 

BlackUmbrellas

Field Marshal
33 Badges
Nov 22, 2016
9.311
3.678
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Prison Architect
  • Cities: Skylines - Campus
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall - Revelations
  • Prison Architect: Psych Ward
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Island Bound
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Surviving Mars
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Teleglitch: Die More Edition
  • Crusader Kings II
Having in consideration that egalitarian vs authoritarian has tackle the problem with Individualist vs Colectivist, I just have an idea:


What about a new weal that symbolize the “Psyche" of a species, being "Individual" or "Collectivist" (Hive mind), "Emphatic" " Apathetic", "Hard rational" "Sentimentalist", to say some examples, some of the choices. Something that it doesn't affect the government but the pops forever until a tech called “mind control” or “Brain alteration” is research (And being a policy that forbids or encourage those usages of technology).
At face value, that seems... over-complicated, and probably really cumbersome and unintuitive?

Like, I'd need to see a working and streamlined model of that mocked up before I supported it in any way.
 

Space Chicken

First Lieutenant
14 Badges
May 27, 2016
200
65
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
Can you add some trait for race that doesn't mind slavery, like ants? Fanatic Authoritarian ant colonies need some happy slaves who have no intention on moving towards Egalitarian.
 

rittstar

First Lieutenant
44 Badges
May 4, 2016
211
96
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
  • Semper Fi
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife Pre-Order
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Cities: Skylines - Campus
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Surviving Mars
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Surviving Mars: Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
You've been able to do that since the game's release:

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...evert-stellaris-to-a-previous-version.954474/

You can revert to 1.0.3 if you'd like.
not that totally true, look yourself.. i mean, i looked myself yesterday.. and i cant revert to the last build prior to 1.4 which was 1.3.2

so what are my options now.. revert to an not optimal version 1.3 or stick with an not optimal version 1.4.. surely i would like to revert to an not optimal version 1.3.2, which i see as the best actually build, but for sure this is my opinion and last but not least, it is not available..

but thx, you try to suggest a solution

edit: okay now it changed again, yesterday it was not 100% clear it is 1.3.2, now it is
 
Last edited:

Melabranche

Second Lieutenant
33 Badges
Aug 9, 2015
186
109
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV
After read this dev diary, I was like...

Part 1 - No sense of this change. More of this - if you "give" Authoritarian and Egalitarian, then why Colectiv cannot stay? Every ethic they give to us is base on human ethic. Colectiv, as a Hive Mind, is something beyond it. One mind, who order milions. And NO. It is not the same as Authoritarian, because...

Part 2 - So... my drons will change they ethic because ... reason? Again, you make every alien in game human. If I go road of F. Materialist + Colectiv, and purge someone, because they are not part of my hive, then my drons (some of them) will suddenly be attracted by mili/xenophobe ethic? And I, as a Hive Queen/King, I cannot say NO? Or I can, by purge them, and be hated by everyone? And more of this, my drons can be unhappy, because...

Part 3 - Realy?! Factions?! My drons will make faction? Sure, from whot I see on screen, I can have some positive effect when they are on good term, and bad if ... wait... I see this before, but "it's" name is different - Estate in EU4! Nope! I'am done!

If this "Traditions and Unity" diary will say something like - Faction, or lack of it etc, will depend on starting ethic - And I will read about it more, then maybe, Maybe, I will back to this game.

Stop making every alien race Human!
 
  • 18
  • 1
Reactions:
Status
Not open for further replies.