• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

Stellaris Dev Diary #45 - Ship Balance

Hello everyone!

Today we will go into the sixth part in a multi-part dev diary about the 'Heinlein' 1.3 update and accompanying (unannounced) content DLC. The topic of today's dev diary is the changes to ship roles and ship balance.

Ship Roles
The new design intends to give each ship a more unique combat role. Some ships will be defensive, while others will be more offensive.

Corvettes
Small and aggressive ships with high evasion that can be equipped with torpedoess. They will be very effective against large ships like battleships due to their high evasion and access to torpedoes. They have very low armor, but a very high chance to evade.

Destroyers
Defensive ships that are designed to counter corvettes, which is why they receive an innate +10 bonus to Tracking. They can be equipped with point-defense weapons, to shoot down the torpedoes fired by corvettes. They have moderate armor, and a moderate chance to evade.

Cruisers
These aggressive ships should be able to put out a lot of damage, but at the cost of less defense. Cruisers, like corvettes, can also be equipped with torpedoes. But unlike corvettes, they can also be equipped with hangars for strike craft. They have somewhat high armor, and a small chance to evade.

Battleships
The new role for battleships will be durable capital ships that fire at its enemies from a long distance. They are the only ship size that can be equipped with extra large weapons. They have very high armor, but minimal evasion.

upload_2016-9-12_14-53-30.png


Evasion, Tracking & Armor
A new feature in the Heinlein patch will be the Tracking stat. Each weapon will have a Tracking value that determines how effective they are against ships with high evasion. Every point of Tracking reduces the target’s chance to evade that attack by the same amount. Small weapons will have high Tracking, medium weapons will have medium Tracking, and large weapons will have minimal Tracking.

This means that large weapons - with a poor Tracking value - will still be very effective against large ships like cruisers or battleships, but almost useless against small ships like corvettes due to their high evasion.

The armor penetration of weapons has also been rebalanced so that large weapons have a much higher armor penetration values than smaller weapons.

In effect, this means that small weapons are good at shooting at small ships, while large weapons are good at shooting at large ships.

Another note is that missile weapons no longer ignore evasion, and can be evaded like normal. Most missiles, however, will have a very high Tracking value.

upload_2016-9-12_14-53-50.png


New Slots
Something new in the Heinlein patch will be the introduction of a couple of new slot types.

x.png

The extra large slot will contain powerful spinal-mounted weapons that are designed to target and take out enemy capital ships. Only Battleships will have a ship section with this weapon slot.

t.png

The torpedo slot, as evident by its name, will hold torpedoes. Torpedoes are slow firing weapons that deal massive damage, perfect for taking down larger ships. Unlike other missiles, however, torpedoes do not have good Tracking, which means they are very ineffective against ships with high evasion, such as corvettes or destroyers.

a_ux.png

The auxiliary slot will hold components that have ship-wide effects. Crystal-Forged Armor, Shield Capacitors and Regenerative Hull Tissue are examples of components that will now be equipped in this slot.

pd.png

Point-defense weapons now have its own slot size. The idea is that you should need to specialize some ships into countering enemy torpedoes

upload_2016-9-12_14-53-13.png


Major weapon rebalancing
Most weapons have been rebalanced to better suit the new design.

That's all for this week! Join us again next monday when we’ll be back with another dev diary!
 
Last edited:
  • 147
  • 51
  • 13
Reactions:
Where did you read that? Or is this more Wild Speculation™?
Speculation based on

Dev Dairy 41


"It's worth noting that designs may not start with a dedicated role like this - at the very start, corvettes not have torpedoes and destroyers will lack the targeting that makes them such effective corvette killers. Their roles instead come fully into play as technology advances and capital ships enter the stage."

&

"The amount of damage reduction provided by armour now depends on the size of the ship, so a single piece of armour will do more for a corvette than for a battleship. This should make armour useful even for smaller ships."

&

This Image of the Striker Core
upload_2016-9-19_22-14-22.png
 

Attachments

  • upload_2016-9-19_22-13-47.png
    upload_2016-9-19_22-13-47.png
    840 KB · Views: 18
Last edited:
  • 1
  • 1
  • 1
Reactions:
If now they could include stelath and something other than military fleets to hit we could start using corvettes as space-submarines
 
  • 1
Reactions:
I'll have to wait and see how the changes work, but I like my defensive corvettes and my attack destroyers. I also like my assault cruisers. Whether I want a particular ship size to be defensive of offensive should be my choice, not a game limitation. I definitely like the spinal mount idea, however.
 
  • 1
Reactions:
Something occurred to me regarding the combat computers. With the change making each different ship have it's own combat computer, will the psionic versions still be a part of the game? I hope so.
 
Interesting updates in the live stream yesterday. I liked the stuff about adding a "tracking" value to weapons to negate the evasion value of ships while at the same time hugely increasing the evasion value of corvettes. Making it very unlikely they will be hit by large weapons or torpedoes (torpedoes at least had a tracking value of 0).

I did wonder however if the inability to mount point defenses on corvettes is going to make them extremely vulnerable to regular missiles, although they did say that missile would lose the modifier that meant they could not be evaded but would rather have very high tracking so they could hit corvettes (or at least that is what I thought they meant)...
 
Why should corvettes be PD limited? It isn't now in RL. An aegis defense gun today can be mounted on a corvette. Too many limitations are creeping in under the guise of "balance". I want more choice and less restriction. Is this to make the AI more competitive? Is this to appease people whining because they can't design effective combined arms fleets?

Combat mechanic changes suggested are good. I like the tracking/evasion ideas; larger mounts in larger ships having more difficulty hitting small, fast ships; huge spinal mounts for battleships; all good. But Battleships-beat-cruisers-beat-destroyers-beat-corvettes-beat-battleships? Would someone please realize that weapons beat defenses beat weapons and get off the stupid, inaccurate Rock-Paper-Scissors crap.
 
  • 4
  • 2
Reactions:
So how will the extra large weapon be useful against small ships? Will handful of corvettes always be able to take down battleship?
This ship roles change seems to me a little bit like the problem of balance is swept under the carpet by rock-paper-scissor (-lizard-Spock) system. Maybe it will be for the better, dunno, will have to try how will it play out. In most other games I ended with fleets of battleships and discarder smaller vessels so if there will be mechanism to use all of ship types then good. Still this solution looks a little bit artificial to me though.
You can now easily equip battleships with medium weapons to have an average efficiency against corvettes if you want too. Also, small weapons innately have less armor penetration so corvettes are less effective against larger ships than before. Your fleet now just needs to have a realistically smarter build, that's all. If you equip nothing but X large weapons to your cruisers, corvettes will probably still eventually win, which makes sense.
 
Last edited:
This feels overly restrictive. it's basically rock paper scissors spock. If each class hard counters another, what is the point of ship design ? Also the DD was very scarce in new info. What about the rebalance of Laser/Missile/Kinetic tech ?
Each class doesn't hard-counter the other. I don't see your point. The only real class restriction is the innate evasiveness/combat speed, which makes perfect sense. There are some other restrictions, like battleships not being able to mount small weapons, but overall, I like the changes especially the new tracking stat. Most classes can still have multiple roles like before.
 
Last edited:
You have this now. The late game fortresses typically have a strength of anywhere from 7K - 12K. Battleships typically have a strength of slightly less then 2K.
Not really, because in heinlein, small weapons now have less armor penetration than larger weapons, realistically. Maybe not torpedoes, but that is why you may actually need battleships for the armor penetration now.
 
Dommstacks are THE poblem with Stellaris warfare, that's why I mentioned it. Ships roles are a non-issue and the last problem Stellaris should be dealing with
I do agree fixing doomstacks should be the priority but i disagree that ship balancing didn't need a fixing. From my pov I'm happy with what was done and I very much hope the next thing they fix is doomstacks/combat logistics/command and control. The game NEEDS some sort of logistics system, as it plainly doesn't even exist right now.
 
Major weapon rebalancing
Most weapons have been rebalanced to better suit the new design.

is there any more info on how exactly weapons have been rebalanced cause this is the info im most interested in seeing, like are mass drivers going to be relevant again XD
 
I like the upcoming balances. The need for well-designed ships grows.
But I see one big problem that comes with this: I have no way of gaining intel on
an opponent's preferred military technology. And I think this is necessary to really
play out the Heinlein changes. I personally would love to get me some inside intel
from the enemy and redesigning some of my fleet before I attack, or before they attack...
 
I like the upcoming balances. The need for well-designed ships grows.
But I see one big problem that comes with this: I have no way of gaining intel on
an opponent's preferred military technology. And I think this is necessary to really
play out the Heinlein changes. I personally would love to get me some inside intel
from the enemy and redesigning some of my fleet before I attack, or before they attack...

Well you can spy a bit by either getting them to share sensor data or by flying a science vessel over to one of their fleets and having a look... more reconnaissance than spying I guess... :)
 
I wonder if battleships acting as carriers loaded with strike craft will supplant corvettes?

I am guessing that will depend on the enemy fleet composition as before. But the changes to corvettes (and torpedoes) and the changes to strike craft certainly makes it an interesting question...

It will be interesting to see how effective strike craft (specifically bombers) are against corvettes given that they don't appear (in the dev videos at least) to be able to mount PD...