Home Trending Latest threads New posts Developer diaries
Jump to latest Follow Reply
  • We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
Stellaris 50184 Bug Reports 30534 Suggestions 18911 Tech Support 2854 Multiplayer 376 User Mods 4617 Stellaris AAR (After Action Reports) Console edition 1204
Previous dev diary Next dev diary
Show only dev responses

Stellaris Dev Diary #312 - 3.9 ‘Caelum’ Patch Notes, and Ask Us Anything!

Hi everyone!

We're a day earlier than normal today because we wanted to make sure you had a chance to look at the release notes before the AMA event we’ll be holding tonight on /r/stellaris from 15-17. Bring your questions, we’ll bring answers.

1693917012587.png​

The 3.9 ‘Caelum’ update is likely to be released next week if everything goes according to plan.

Here are the patch notes, which include a number of fixes thanks to feedback we received from the Open Beta.

3.9.1 Patch Notes​

Features
  • Humanoid Species Pack
    • Added the new Enmity tradition tree focused on making and maintaining rivalries
    • Added three new species traits available to all Biological and Lithoid Species
      • Positive: Existential Iteroparity
      • Negative: Psychological Infertility
      • Negative: Jinxed
    • Added two new portraits
  • Lithoid Species Pack
    • Added a new Void Hive Civic for Hive Minds
    • Added the Selective Kinship Civic for regular empires
      • Supremacists now allow xeno species on the council if they have Selective Kinship civic (but only from their species class)
    • Added a new humanoid inspired portrait
    • Added the Federated Theian Preservers prescripted empire to the Lithoid DLC
  • Plantoids Species Pack
    • Added the Fruitful Partnership origin for Fungoid and Plantoid species
    • Added a new Invasive Species trait available for Fungoid and Plantoid species
    • Added a new dryad inspired portrait
    • Added the Blooms of Gaea prescripted empire
    • The Idyllic Bloom civic has been buffed
      • Phase 4 gaia seeders will now grant 3-5 pops the Gaia World Preference and Bloomed trait every 5 years as well as increasing the effects of this trait (and the Budding trait) by +50%.
      • The Bloomed trait gives +10% resources from jobs, +10% pop growth speed, -10% amenities and -10% housing used when the pop is on a gaia world.
  • Megacorp Expansion
    • Added a new Worker Cooperative Civic for Corporate empires
  • Necroids Species Pack
    • Added a new Mechromancy Ascension Perk for Machine empires
  • Nemesis Expansion
    • Added the new Kaleidoscope Midgame Situation
  • First Contact Story Pack
    • The Colonization Vessel for Eager Explorers Civics now has a unique ship model.
  • Reworked Habitats
    • Habitats are now limited to one Habitat Central Complex per system, and a number of Orbitals depending on the stars, planets, moons and asteroids present.
    • Major Orbitals are constructed around stars and planets and provide additional district slots to the Habitat Central Complex in addition to modifiers depending on the deposits present.
    • Minor Orbitals are constructed around moons and asteroids and only provide modifiers depending on the deposits present.
    • Removed Leisure and Trade Districts from Habitats.
    • Habitat Upgrade decisions increase the habitability of the habitat and provide additional branch office building slots in addition to increasing district and building slots provided by orbitals. Their cost is modified by your habitat build cost modifier.
    • Reworked the number of districts on habitats and the amount of jobs, housing and building slots they provide.
    • Habitats that are blown up by a colossus now leave behind a Ruined Habitat Megastructure, which can be repaired into a fully functional Habitat Central Complex.
    • Reworked Voidborne Ascension Perk
      • Modifiers:
        • Habitat Build Cost: -20%
        • Max Districts on Habitats: +2
        • Building Slots from Non-Urban Habitat Districts: +0.25
        • Jobs from Habitat Districts: +1
      • Effects:
        • Upgrading a Habitat Central Complex allows research of the next level of Habitat technology.
        • Can construct advanced housing buildings on Habitats
        • Cannot be taken by empires with the Void Dweller Origin.
    • Reworked Void Dweller Origin
      • Can now be taken by Hive Minds
      • Can build advanced housing buildings on habitats.
      • Modifiers replaced with:
        • Habitat Build Cost: -25%
        • Max Districts on Habitats: +2
        • Building Slots per Non-Urban Habitat District: +0.25 (1 Building Slot for every 4 Districts)
        • Jobs per Habitat District: +1
      • Arcane Replicator Planetary Feature:
        • Increased the alloys production to 20.
        • Increased the consumer goods production to 10. No longer produces Consumer Goods for empires that don't use Consumer Goods.
      • Species trait, no longer decreases pop growth speed.
      • Cannot take the Voidborne AP.
      • Pre-scripted ideal planets have been replaced with systems rich in resource deposits.
        • Pre-scripted system 1 will have:
          • The habitable world is replaced with a frozen world with a size 3 Engineering deposit
          • Three planets, moons or asteroids with an 83% chance of a size 1 Physics, Society or Engineering deposit and a 17% chance of a size 2 Physics, Society or Engineering deposit each.
          • These deposits are in addition to whatever else might be spawned by the game.
          • If the Void Dweller (Sol) starting system is selected, this will be Alpha Centauri.
        • Pre-scripted system 2 will have:
          • The habitable world is replaced with a molten world with a size 3 Alloys and size 4 Minerals deposit.
          • Three planets, moons or asteroids with a 83% chance of a size 1 Minerals or Energy deposit and a 17% chance of a size 2 Minerals or Energy deposit each.
          • These deposits are in addition to whatever else might be spawned by the game.
          • If the Void Dweller (Sol) starting system is selected, this will be Sirius.
      • Tradition Swaps
        • Adaptability Finisher now gives +50% resources from deposits on habitats that give raw resources
        • Expansion Finisher now gives +1 Max District on Habitats
        • Modular Superstructures now gives +1 Housing from Habitation Districts and +10% Max Districts on Habitats
  • Reworked jobs that primarily produced trade and introduced the specialist strata Trader job.
    • Trader jobs added producing 8 TV for 1 CG upkeep
    • Clerks produce 3 TV and 3 Amenities (was 4 TV and 2 Amenities) and provide +1% planetary trade value
    • Commercial Zones building now provides 1 Trader job and 2 Clerk jobs (was 3 Clerk jobs). Commercial Megaplex building now provides 2 Trader jobs and 4 Clerk jobs (was 6 Clerk jobs and 1 Merchant Job).
    • Shattered Ring Trade Districts now provide 1 Trader job (was 1 Clerk). Ringword Trade Districts now provide 2 Trader jobs and 6 Clerk jobs (was 2 Merchants jobs and 6 Clerk jobs).
    • Numistic Priest jobs added producing 8 TV, 2 Unity and 2 Amenities. Numistic Shrine now provides 4 Numisitic Priest jobs (was 2 Priests and 2 Merchants).
    • Trickle Up Economics tradition now gives Clerks +1 Amenity and +1 TV production.
    • Commercial Enterprise tradition now makes Traders give +2 Amenities and Commercial buildings and Trade Districts provide additional Trader jobs (was Commercial buildings and Trade districts provide additional Merchant jobs).
    • Reduced the number of Merchant jobs from the Galactic Stock Exchange to 1 (was 2 Merchant jobs).
    • Merchant Guilds Councilor now increases Trader output by 0.4 TV per level (was increases Clerk output by 0.4 TV per level).
  • Added the new Myrmeku colony event chain for Mechanical and Machine empires.
  • Added the first contact event chain The Trial.
  • Added new Node Culling (Hive-Mind) and Node Reformatting (Machine Intelligence) agendas.
    • These agendas are unlocked by researching a Tier 2 Society (Statecraft) technology. Culling or Reformatting a Node removes the Node and replaces it with a fresh Node with different traits. The maximum skill of this new Node depends on the any modifiers to starting leader skill and the new "Restored Node Additional Skill" modifier.
    • Added "Restored Node Additional Skill" increase the starting skill level of new Node generated by the Node Culling (Hive-Mind)/Node Reformatting (Machine Intelligence) agendas.
  • Expanded Leaders from Enclaves
    • Hiring a Shroudwalker Teacher now gives you a level 5 Governor instead of being able to enact a planetary decision.
    • You can now hire a Master Salvager level 5 Scientist from the Salvager Enclave.
    • The Governors you can hire from trader enclaves now have unique traits and are no longer immortal.
    • Leaders hired from enclaves can now be appointed to unique Council Positions (Requires Galactic Paragons)
    • Attacking an enclave from which you have hired a leader causes that leader to leave your empire, with additional consequences if they are on the council.
  • Reduced the RNG required for pursuing an Ascension Path.
    • Removed the tech requirements from the Engineered Evolution, Mind over Matter, The Flesh is Weak, Organo-Machine Interfacing, Synthetic Evolution and Synthetic Age Ascension Perks.
    • These Ascension Perks can now be taken as your third AP instead of second.
    • Taking these APs will now grant access to an Agenda which gives progress in technologies relevant to the Ascension Path. These Agendas are faster to enact and have reduced cooldown compared to most other Agendas. Additionally, the enactment time for the Mind over Matter Agenda depends on your empire ethics.
    • The Teachers of the Shroud Origin grants access to the Mind over Matter Agenda.
  • Environmentalist Empires with their Ranger Lodge built can now enact a decision to create additional natural blockers on their planets.

Improvements
  • Automation Improvements
    • Sector Automation is removed in favor of Planetary automation, which no longer requires a defined resource stockpile.
    • You can now forbid planet automation from using specific resources.
  • New Player Improvements
    • Added new tutorial steps to help new players learn core concepts such as Toggling the Galactic Map and Unpausing.
    • Civilian Difficulty now blocks Homicidal, Despoiling, Criminal Syndicate, and Assimilator Empires. It also reduces the Fanatic Xenophobe spawn rate by 80%. Finally it blocks homicidal event empires from spawning.
    • Deficit and Rebellion Situations progress 90% slower on the Civilian Difficulty and 50% slower on Cadet Difficulty
  • Under One Rule origin now has one more conclusion event, after ascension.
  • Added a location marker to the "First Colony" event, making it easier to find your new world.
  • Improved Origin tooltips by making use of Nested Tooltips.
  • Improved clarity and formatting of auto-generated Civic tooltips.
  • L-Gate Insight and L-Gate Activation Technologies are now considered Dangerous.
  • Lost Colony Origin is now playable by Gestalt empires (Hive Minds and Machines)
  • Omega Theory technology is now considered Dangerous.
  • The Common Ground and Hegemony origins can now be selected by gestalt empires that do not have any of the following civics, Devouring Swarm, Terravore, Determined Exterminator.
  • The randomly generated federation members for the Common Ground origin can now also be machine intelligences or hive-minds.
  • Decreased the frequency of hive-mind federation members. Increased the frequency of machine federation members if the player is a machine empire.
  • The tooltip for the number of districts on the planet UI now lists the number of district slots used.
  • Choosing the Consume Planet planetary decision as a terravore will now start a situation that will consume the entire planet, sparing you from clicking the button numerous times.
  • The From Beyond Science Ship now uses components suitable for its origins.
  • Added an introductory event for Holy Worlds, found on the fringes of Fallen Empire territory.
  • Added events for Scion empires surveying a Fallen Empire's Holy World for the first time.
  • Added Habitat Central Complexes to the shipset preview in Empire Creation.
  • Constructing a Habitat Complex now triggers a Toast instead of an Event.
  • Constructing an Orbital triggers a Toast.
  • Adjusted the orbit angle of Europa to prevent objects in orbit from clipping into those in orbit of Io.
  • Standardized highlighting color used on Tradition tooltips.
  • Added effects to Infected planets stage 1-3, infested planets by the scourge crisis and added entity with effect for hive worlds.
  • Added extra checks so the policies screen will properly show which policy would put you in breach
  • Small visual update on shroud creatures
  • The Knight's habitat now orbits their homeworld, not a moon.
  • All players in a coop empire can now partake in diplomacy. Note however that for some specific empire types (enclaves etc) it will not be possible for multiple coop players to open communications at the same time.
  • Coop players can now click the event option selected by another coop player in order to close the event window.
  • Events can now be dismissed in coop by pressing the close button of the event window. Dismissed events will not have any subsequent events show for the dismissing player. Note that If the event was opened manually by the local player, the event will be properly closed rather than dismissed.

UI
  • Added a popup message for when your Co-op group is disbanded
  • Make the Empire Size tooltip total include the floor as well as an explanation when applicable
  • Make the Advisor Window not hide the Outliner
  • Ship component modifiers from Archaeoengineers are now included in the stats in the ship designer and ship design window.
  • Right-clicking a starbase icon in the galaxy view now allows you to select fleet orders targeting that starbase.
  • Custom ship designs can now be created even if Auto-generate designs is enabled.
  • Fixed planet modifier icons not updating correctly when removing and adding a modifier at the same time.
  • In fleet view related tooltips added X icon in front of unfulfilled conditions. Added green checkmark in front of condition that is positive.
  • Fixed tooltip for edict checkboxes not appearing.
  • Added a scrollbar for the list of selectable council positions.

Balance
  • Buffed Catalytic Processing civics.
    • Principal Catalyst (regular empire) council position effects: +2% Metallurgist output
    • Chief Catalyst Officer (megacorp) council position effects: -5% Food Upkeep for Jobs.
    • Chemist, Translucer and Gas Refiner jobs (and their gestalt equivalents) now have food upkeep for Catalytic empires. Mineral:Food ratio is kept at 2:3 much like Metallurgists:Catalytic Technicians, meaning that these jobs have an upkeep of 15 Food. Machine Intelligences with the Organic Reprocessing civic no longer have -1 to food production for Agri-Drones.
    • Catalytic Technician, Chemist, Translucer and Gas Refiner jobs (and their gestalt equivalents) with Food upkeep have 1.25x the Base Output of the equivalent jobs with Mineral upkeep.
  • Colonists are now worker strata jobs.
  • Edicts now have an activation cost equal to their monthly cost.
    • Added an activation cost to all edicts because you all can't be trusted with this power otherwise
  • Leader Capacity
    • Major changes have been made to the leader XP penalty for being over leader capacity. The curve has been adjusted to a nonlinear one that no longer reaches -100%.
    • The number of leaders in the top bar will now turn yellow until you are at double your base capacity, after which it will turn red.
  • Rebalanced Ruler strata jobs.
    • Science Directors no longer produce Unity.
    • High Priests produce additional Unity instead of additional Amenities compared to Politicians.
    • Executives produces slightly less Unity than Politicians and now have a small amount of Energy upkeep in addition to their Consumer Goods upkeep.
  • Pre-scripted ideal worlds are now flagged to not have anomalies.
  • Embassy Complexes now grant a politician job. Grand Embassy Complexes now grant two politician jobs.
  • The Vat-Grown trait from Genetic Ascension now renders the species completely infertile. The cost of the trait has been reduced to 2 points.
  • Made Calamitous Birth's unique deposit increase the effectiveness of Lithoid unique traits by 50%. Made the Lithoid Crater only negatively impact non lithoid species.
  • Nationalist Zeal now gains +5% Diplo Weight per rival.
  • Archaeotechs balance updates:
    • Halved the energy upkeep of the Facility of Archaeostudies.
    • Allowed the Expertise Archaeostudies trait to be selected in more cases.
    • Added the Archaeotech Focus admiral trait, which grants increased damage and fire rate with Archaeotech weapons.
    • Decreased the research speed and draw weight for Archaeotech from the Expertise trait, but made it reduce the Minor Artifact cost for ship components.
    • The Archaeoengineers AP now reduces Minor Artifact cost for ship components by 10%
  • "Scion" empires are now twice as likely to see an intervention (in the form of a task or reward) from their Overlord during the first 25 years of play. Normal probability (approximately a 1 in 50 chance each year) applies after that first event has fired.
  • Leaders granted during the course of the "Scion" Origin now come with revised Traits and other such related perks.
  • Increased a potential 2-year Trade Value bonus from Spy Network event "Drain on Resources" from 1% to 8%. This bonus ("Enterprising Spy Network") still requires you to first have a trade agreement with the espionage target.
  • Xenophobe Supremacist faction is now unhappy when xenos are present on the council
  • Buffed the Asteroid Hive Guardian strike crafts.
  • The Supremacy Diplomatic Stance now applies a -50% modifier to diplomatic weight gained from technology and economy.
  • All the Ascension Civics now grant your starting planets +1 Ascension Tier.
  • Reduced Ranger Jobs from Ranger Lodge by 1. Ranger Lodge now provides 1 additional Ranger Job per natural blocker.
  • Rangers now produce small amounts of energy, minerals or food depending on the natural blockers present on a planet.
  • The Opinion lost with the Trader Enclaves for canceling a trade deal now scales with size of the deal.
  • The starting head of research for Remnants empires now has the Archaeostudies Expertise trait.
  • Increased the range of Macro Batteries by 50%.
  • Reduced the draw chance of Archaeotechs if you don't have the Archaeo-Engineers AP.
  • Defender of the Galaxy's opinion boost now only applies to independent normal empires.
  • Deficit situations now reduce the base output of relevant jobs.
  • Reverted changes to Feudal Society that were introduced in 3.8.
  • Bio-Trophies are now considered culture workers.
  • Slightly reduced the base unity output of Bio-Trophies.
  • The Chosen will no longer spawn on Cadet or lower Difficulty or if the game is set to have no AI empires.
  • Being declared a crisis counts as being in breach of galactic law for the purpose of gaining menace.
  • Pompous Purists now have +10% Diplomatic Weight when opposing resolutions.
  • Hydroponics Habitat Designation now increases food production from farmers
  • Hydroponics Farm Building now gives 3 farming jobs.
  • Machine Intelligences now have access to the Harvesters trait
  • Payback Origin
    • Restoring the MSI warship to a Habitat now costs 2000 Engineering research, but also grants Habitats as a research option
    • Added the Atmospheric Infuser planetary feature to the unique habitat, granting +40% Habitability
    • Technological Cache planetary feature now grants +10% Research from Jobs, 2 Researcher (or equivalent) jobs and +8 Max Research District Capacity
  • Knights of the Toxic God Origin
    • Added the Order's X-Calibrator planetary feature to the starting habitat, granting +40% Habitability
    • Order's Demesne districts now give +0.5 Building Slots, +6 Housing and 2 Squire Jobs
    • The Order's Castle and Keep now give 2 squire jobs
    • Owning the Maw of the Toxic Entity now allows construction of Demesne Outposts in systems with Knight Habitat Complexes. These are Major Orbitals that give Knight jobs instead of modifiers depending on planetary deposit.

AI
  • Increased AI weight for Voidborne AP if they have the Void Hive Civic, Knights of the Toxic Gods Origin or restored MSI’s flagship into a habitat with the Payback Origin.
  • Increased AI weight on habitat techs and AP where appropriate.
  • Increased alloy income requirements for Void Dweller AI empires.
  • Increased the weight for the AI to build habitats by a factor equal to the number of planetary bodies that support mining and research stations.
  • Increased the weight for the AI to build habitats in the Core Sector.
  • Increased the weight for the AI to build habitats in Void Dweller pre-scripted systems.
  • Increased Void Dweller AI budget for building habitats.
  • Made AI Void Dwellers more likely to take Expansion Traditions and less likely to take Adaptability Traditions.
  • Made AI Void Dwellers more likely to take Expansion Traditions and less likely to take Adaptability Traditions.
  • The AI will now build a maximum number of science ships equal to the number of scientists they have that can crew them + 1 or 5, whichever is lowest.
  • Told the AI it can build habitats in systems without Starports.
  • Tweaked AI weights for habitat megastructures.

Performance
  • Fixed a case where country modifiers would continually recalculate every day
  • Improved the performance of the council view by decreasing the amount of texture loading.
  • Improved the performance of the leader list view by decreasing the amount of texture loading.
  • Optimized ai evaluation of subjugation actions for better performance
  • Optimized triggers for a bunch of jobs, casus belli and opinion modifiers so they will evaluated less often, improving performance
  • Parallelized the Construction Queue updates for improved performance
  • Parallelized trade route and piracy computations for improved performance
  • Refactored calculations for trade value from living standards, leading to increased performance in the late game.

Bugfix
  • A hivemind will no longer talk about your multiple minds when establishing an embassy if both of you are gestalts.
  • Added location data for the initial steps in all precursor event chains.
  • Added some missing draw weight modifiers to arcane deciphering.
  • Added tooltips for council_agenda_progress_percent trigger.
  • AI only anomalies that were supposed to spawn energy deposits now correctly do so, instead of spawning mineral deposits.
  • Aiding the population suffering from the Zoonotic Plague will now halve the likelihood that a pop dies every month.
  • Automatic designation for Rural, Mining, Energy and Farming designation now accounts for buildings that boost mineral, energy or food output.
  • Blocked Incorporate Artifact Relays decision for Rogue Servitors
  • Blocked players from being able to hotjoin as the Habinte Unified Worlds
  • Cease Robot Assembly decision now requires the Robotic Workers technology.
  • Corporate Culture Site building will now change to Autochton Monument when reforming from Megacorp to Normal Empire
  • Corrected some adjectives used to refer to species classes - most notably those events which announce the discovery of pre-sapient lifeforms.
  • Corrected the descriptions of deposits left as part of a pre-FTL interaction event, "Land Grabs".
  • Corrected the spelling of Ukrainian entries in the UNE namelist, 'Human 1'.
  • Corrected various gendered pronouns in Galactic Paragons' "Death of a Great Leader" event.
  • Custom human empires with Lost Colony now correctly spawn a parent empire
  • Empire opinion of criminal syndicates will only be affected by branch offices inside the empire.
  • Empires which consume their constituent Species (such as for Livestock or as part of Grid Amalgamation) no longer hold negative Opinions towards fellow Xenophages.
  • Empires who are trying to become the crisis will no longer be asked to lead the galaxy in the War in Heaven.
  • Events that time out will now first attempt to pick the default option for the event and only after that select the topmost valid option.
  • Fixed "In Breach Of The Galactic Law" not working properly
  • Fixed a broken trigger for Psionic Theory technology
  • Fixed a typo in "Colony Gained!" event
  • Fixed army outliner section disappearing when attempting to show a very large amount of armies
  • Fixed being able to remove claims when at war if using the galactic map widget
  • Fixed buttons consuming mouse events that they shouldn't.
  • Fixed certain conditions for auto-migration e.g. being the last pop on the planet not being taken into account
  • Fixed damage output of Macro Batteries.
  • Fixed edicts being unactivatable if your resources are less than the edict's upkeep cost.
  • Fixed empire's founder species not being updated after modifying all of the founder species' pops.
  • Fixed Gene Seed Purification not being randomly rolled in some cases.
  • Fixed Habitat Central Control not giving some jobs for Corporate empires.
  • Fixed High Gravity planet modifier description for non-English loc
  • Fixed inability to focus on civilian ships by double-clicking them in the outliner
  • Fixed incorrect building being shown behind Managers in the job view.
  • Fixed issue where, if other orders are available, the "Move Here" order in the galaxy view would always go to the star, not the starbase.
  • Fixed issue with tooltips flickering when ending up under mouse when having concepts
  • Fixed issues with name scoping in the The Charyoni Shielded event.
  • Fixed Machine Empire separatists spawning without a valid government.
  • Fixed megastructures not deselecting when you open a sidebar view.
  • Fixed non-default options being selected for diplomatic events containing default a default option time out
  • Fixed not being able to roll Neuro-Quantum Link in some cases.
  • Fixed Outliner observer button not becoming available when you get a game over.
  • Fixed random empires sometimes having civics without their trait requirements (e.g. non-Aquatic Hegemon Subordinates with Anglers).
  • Fixed scripted effects that alter Agenda Progress being able to set Agenda Progress to a negative value.
  • Fixed slave revolts being able to spawn with a non-democratic authority.
  • Fixed some force spawned empires having broken starbase configurations when spawned.
  • Fixed some leader traits that were not updated to be tagged as councilor traits.
  • Fixed some modifers (such as armor) being applied to starbases twice.
  • Fixed Starbase upgrade cost being able to go negative
  • Fixed the building icon for the final stage of the Gaia Seeder being out of bounds
  • Fixed the Death Cult civic listing an unobtainable civic in requirements. [X] Unity concept and playing around with header colours.
  • Fixed the Guardian trait not applying its modifiers correctly.
  • Fixed the Insidious Plot event happening to pre-FTLs.
  • Fixed the Last Gift situation not ending properly if you performed one of the special projects with a hired fleet.
  • Fixed the Reanimated Skydragon not using the zombie model.
  • Fixed the Spore Artillery of the Voidspawn not having correct stats.
  • Fixed the tooltip for the adoption effect of Genetic Traditions not mentioning unlocking Clone Vats
  • Gestalt empires with the Empath or Rogue Servitor civics can now correctly pacify Amoebas and Crystalline Entities
  • Gray, The Oracle, and The Beholder should no longer gain brain slugs no matter how cute they are.
  • Ground Combat will no longer kill the last few pops of a regular colony through collateral damage
  • Habitat capitals now provide Evaluator jobs instead of Coordinator jobs
  • Hive Minds are now spared from having to wrestle with the metaphysical ramifications of a 'zeitgeist'.
  • Immortal leaders should no longer get traits that increase their longevity.
  • Imperial Fiefdom empires which are engaged in a war of independence against their Overlord may no longer opt to stay loyal to that Overlord once it begins to fracture.
  • Imperial Vassals can no longer trade their heirs to Overlords
  • In the galaxy view, moving a fleet to the same system that it's currently in will now move it to orbit around the starbase or star.
  • Monuments which are added to colony worlds as part of the "Under One Rule" Origin are now dismantled (which is to say, the modifiers are removed) if that world changes ownership through trade or conquest.
  • Name Randomization for Letters Of Marque + Criminal Syndicate should now work correctly
  • Occupying a Pre-FTL habitat (such as the one found in Federation's End) by way of military invasion or Operation Infiltrate Society now causes the correct type of capital building to spawn.
  • Planets conquered by the Khan no longer have all of their districts and buildings ruined, though some hive-mind or machine intelligence specific buildings may still be lost.
  • Players can now rebuild merc enclave (in the same system) after it being destroyed
  • Pre-FTL civilizations now have a non-infinitesimal chance of spawning with the "Forcefully Devolved" trait
  • Prevented repeat appearances of an advisor popup triggered by other empires beating you to mutual First Contact.
  • Prevented the nested tooltips for Edicts and Traditions pointing to the Unity concept to stop an infinite loop.
  • Removed any mention of a 365 day calendar in Stellaris.
  • Removed criminals providing trade value in some cases. Made modifiers from living standards triggered to hide them.
  • Renamed several message types in the message settings to prevent duplicated message names.
  • Renowned and Legendary Leaders can no longer be replaced with synthetic infiltrators.
  • Robots with Servitude Citizenship can no longer have Shared Burdens or Employee Ownership Living Standards.
  • Set the Imperial Fiefdom overlord to never spawn naturally.
  • Ship as Concept now uses your existing Science Ship designs.
  • Stopped some leaders (like Grey) being able to become a Chosen One
  • Stopped the pre-ftl tech progression situation from incorrectly not being destroyed or incorrectly being created in some cases.
  • Subjects now support their Overlords resolutions in the Galactic Community correctly
  • Temporary mercenary admirals from rented fleets no longer cost unity upkeep
  • The "Strange Signal" / "Love's Labor's Lost" anomaly no longer appears for empires with the "Remnant" Origin. Cultural historians may rest a little easier now.
  • The Curators will once again have their minds blown when you figure out what the infinity sphere was doing.
  • The Distress Signal event will no longer assume that the exploratory vessel is a science one nor that it has a leader.
  • The Evacuation Protocols edict for the Doomsday Origin will now be available if your only available colony is artificial.
  • The final stage of the Gaia Seeder can no longer be removed, disabled or ruined.
  • The Habinte United Worlds will now upgrade their fleets after being angered. No more naked designs!
  • The Imperial Ruler/Heir trait now states that the leader does not have any unity upkeep.
  • The initial Zroni digsite may no longer spawn on colonized planets.
  • The Last Amoeba will not be automatically attacked by hostile ships in ranged, even if you have an aggressive first contact policy
  • The Surveyor will no longer spawn resources on stars, planets, moons or asteroids that have a housing or knight orbital in orbit. It will spawn resources on bodies that have a resource extraction orbital and the habitat will now correctly inherit the appropriate districts or deposits.
  • Updated various sound effects used in the course of "Knights of the Toxic God".
  • Void Dweller Sol system now uses the updated Sol system textures.
  • Void Dwellers now get various buildings added by civics on game start if they have enough free building slots.
  • Wenkwort modifiers now apply to culture workers, not administrators.
  • You can no longer construct an Orbital Assembly Complex on a Ringworld or Habitat
  • You can no longer designate a shattered ring segment to be a generator world if you cannot build generator districts on it.
  • You can now build the final stage of the Gaia Seeder on a Gaia World
  • You can now rebuild the Knight's habitat if it is blown up, though this does not allow you to continue the Quest.

Modding
  • Add agenda_cooldown and agenda_finish_modifier_duration parameters for council agendas to override the default defines.
  • Add is_on_galaxy_map event trigger for the local player's camera.
  • Add set_ship_design effect to change an existing ship's design.
  • Add support for script_values in council agenda agenda_cost field.
  • Added a define for ground combat collateral damage safe pops. Set it to 3.
  • Added a hide_modifiers = yes / no parameter for civics and origins. It hides the modifiers from tooltips.
  • Added add_council_agenda_progress_percentage effect and council_agenda_progress trigger.
  • Added diplo_weight_opposing_mult modifier, which increases diplomatic weight when opposing the current resolution.
  • Added diplo_weight_rivals_mult modifier, which increases diplomatic weight for every rival the country has.
  • Added documentation for council agenda script.
  • Added effects to give ability to change ruler and council position titles from script.
  • Added empire_size_add modifier.
  • Added hide_name = yes / no for megastructures.
  • Added is_garrison trigger to check if a fleet is a garrison.
  • Added is_paused script trigger.
  • Added is_void_dweller_empire scripted trigger, which checks for either the Void Dweller origin or Voidborn AP.
  • Added on_colony_monthly_pulse on action that fires monthly based on the colony founding date.
  • Added on_ship_disbanded on action. Fixed disbanding orbitals by the disband ship button not clearing the has_megastructure flag.
  • Added ship_friendly_territory_armor_add, ship_friendly_territory_armor_mult modifiers.
  • Added starbase_modules/00_example.txt to documentation accepted parameters for starbase modules.
  • Added triggered_ship_design_modifier for component templates.
  • Added unused modifiers for Restored Growth/Cognitive/Legion/Regulatory Node Additional Skill.
  • Better error logs for breaking max recursion limits in scripted effects and triggers.
  • Changing the blocking of gestalt destiny traits from hardcoded to use the correct gamerule instead.
  • Fixed dynamic event targets (with @ in them) failing when used in various places e.g. "exists = event_target:test@root".
  • Fixed dynamic event targets being unable to understand dot scoping.
  • Fixed if_scaled_resolution not working correctly for all UI scaling values.
  • Fixed message_setting_key not being localized.
  • Fixed ship_piracy_suppression_add and ship_piracy_suppression_mult not working in component templates' ship_modifier and triggered_ship_modifier.
  • Habitat level in the outliner now ranges from I to X. Habitat level is increased by Upgrade Habitat decisions and determined by planet flags. Only levels I through to III and X are used in unmodded games.
  • Improved documentation for a number of effects.
  • Introduced technicians_add, miners_add and farmers_add inline script to make adding these jobs easier to resource buildings.
  • Made it possible to have interface defines that don't affect the checksum.
  • planet_housing_add now shows up to two decimal places.
  • random_weight for ethics now takes a country as its root scope.
  • Removed ethic and initial_effect_custom_loc unused parameters from council agendas.
  • Rename council agenda modifiers parameter to modifier, and remove mandatory curly braces usage.
  • Replaced can_see_in_list parameter for create_leader with hide_leader that also excludes the leader from the leader cap.
  • Replaced can_see_in_list with hide_leader
  • Set numeral_0_icon to be $BLANK_STRING$.
  • Split Origin and Civic descriptions into description and negative_description.
  • Swapped is_orbital_ring = no for is_normal_starbase = yes
  • Trade deposits are no longer flagged to be mining station deposits.
  • Traditions now support triggered_modifier.
  • Trigger graphical_culture now supports the megastructure scope.
  • Updated some missing and inaccurate information in the tradition documentation.
  • Updated Starbase and Orbital Ring armor values to use scripted variables.
  • Updated the script documentation for the create_leader effect.
  • Various triggers no longer check for the mining_habitat, energy_habitat or research_habitat flags, they instead check for modifier values.

See you at the AMA!
 
  • 45Like
  • 10Love
  • 7
  • 1
  • 1
Reactions:
Sort by date Sort by reaction score
That makes sense, thank you for clarifying Eladrin; it was an interesting experience in game design. As far as the current iteration goes I hope you can get in a *right click system* --> Build Orbitals feature, it would help reduce busywork.

I do think the rest of the patch is great; lots of fun new features, while I might slide back to 3.8 for a void dweller game or two I'll definitely be playing with it for any standard game. I'm sure the team is already coming up with new ideas as we speak ;)
 
  • 2
Reactions:
Kilkakon said:
That makes sense, thank you for clarifying Eladrin; it was an interesting experience in game design. As far as the current iteration goes I hope you can get in a *right click system* --> Build Orbitals feature, it would help reduce busywork.

I do think the rest of the patch is great; lots of fun new features, while I might slide back to 3.8 for a void dweller game or two I'll definitely be playing with it for any standard game. I'm sure the team is already coming up with new ideas as we speak ;)
Click to expand...

We've discussed a couple of different ways of improving the UX for building orbitals, it's definitely something on our roadmap in the medium-term.
 
  • 9Like
Reactions:
Eladrin said:
We've discussed a couple of different ways of improving the UX for building orbitals, it's definitely something on our roadmap in the medium-term.
Click to expand...
No matter what you finally go with it would be great if the auto-build from constructors could get the auto-research menu treatment.
☑ Build Mining Stations
☑ Build Research Stations
☑ Build Minor Orbitals
☑ Build Major Orbitals
☑ Research Special Projects

Out of curiosity is there a current reason why mining stations and research stations are distinct structures or is it a legacy feature?

Are there any plans to move the d_minerals_1 system to something a bit more flexible?
 
  • 1Like
  • 1
Reactions:
Eladrin said:
"No chance" was a bit harsh, but I don't want to get people's hopes up. Yes, there could be steps taken to make it viable, but there are some core aspects of machine intelligence design that hinder the exploration of certain themes, the way they handle habitability being one of them. (Mass immortality [which is at times less immortal than actual mortality] being another.)
Click to expand...

I just want to play as Von Neumann probes gradually expanding outwards one system at a time consuming all resources.
Machines shouldn't be the last to work out how to live in space.
But then again... Orbital habitats shouldn't be the only planet type unable to construct orbital defences, buildings or modules

...Stellaris development is rather mysterious to me.

As for themes that can't be explored? I think they can be explored. Habitability doesn't accurately cover pollution but Relentless Industrialists, Environmental Protection and more all fits that theme despite the simplistic habitability system. Pathogens aren't modelled but we have Javorian Pox to tell those stories. Machines aren't currently given a habitability type but we at least have the cosmetic differences between robots made by a human and by a fish.

Adding Heterogeneous habitability?
Earth is 70% water, adding that to Stellaris would mean we could fit 2 more ocean-dwelling species alongside humans... but that would we very unbalanced.
Pollution gradually being added to unused areas (dumping waste in the oceans)... but that could be achieved by simply adding blockers, or turning into a tomb-world for the overly dramatic all-or-nothing approach.
Habitability changes risk making Pop growth annoying (lots of templates, switching the currently growing pop, needing partial pop-modification etc).
We had techs needed to be able to even establish low-habitability colonies at one point, and tiles that could have supported a mix of different biomes all on a single world, I assume planets were made homogeneous for a reason.

Changing Lifespan and immortality?
It's annoying that Machines suffer random leader deaths despite being described as immortal... no backups, duplicates no ctrl-c ctrl-v.
But it's also annoying that humans aren't leading a team, training a replacement and instead just drop dead without a second in command (and a lot of fleets with no leaders at all). But that's really not a machine issue.

So... I'm struggling to see what the problem is, I just really want my Von Neumann probes.
 
  • 1Like
Reactions:
DrFranknfurter said:
I just want to play as Von Neumann probes gradually expanding outwards one system at a time consuming all resources.
Machines shouldn't be the last to work out how to live in space.
Click to expand...
the issue with Void Dweller Machines is that Void Dweller is supposed to be a "sacrifice planetary capability for Habitat capabilities" but machines don't suffer from the penalties of Void Dweller like bio-pops do so they're not eligible for Void Dweller. if they figure out how to make machine empires meaningfully impacted by Void Dweller then they'll add the option of Void Dweller Machines.
 
Olzinn said:
the issue with Void Dweller Machines is that Void Dweller is supposed to be a "sacrifice planetary capability for Habitat capabilities" but machines don't suffer from the penalties of Void Dweller like bio-pops do so they're not eligible for Void Dweller. if they figure out how to make machine empires meaningfully impacted by Void Dweller then they'll add the option of Void Dweller Machines.
Click to expand...
I agree they need to be less good using planets. There are a lot of ways of doing that just adapting existing mechanics and not having to invent anything new.

1. Worlds without a Tree of Life planetary feature have the following penalties:
−50% Planet Build Speed
−25% Resources from Jobs
+10% Upkeep from Jobs
−5 Stability
Void-Machines could have a penalty on planets until they overcome the gravity+organic matter problems.

2. Tree of life also changes the price of colony ships (more food, less alloys). Alternate colony ships also modify planets like adding the "Lithoid Crater"
Void-Machines could have significantly more expensive colony ships
Void-Machines could have a very expensive alternate colony ship that (partially or fully) negates the normal gravity+organic penalties.

3. Lubrication Terminal increases +1% Pop amenities usage instead of −0.75 Habitability that Permutation Attendance Drone get.
Void-Machines could have higher Pop amenities usage on planets instead of having low habitability or happiness.

The mechanism to apply this could be:
  • Pop trait that all machine templates need to contain to be eligible to be constructed
  • Modified planetary capital building
  • Planet modifier
  • Planet deposit
4. Environmentalist gain unity from natural blockers
Void-Machines could PAY unity and additional amenities for each natural blocker

Obviously I could go on. To me there are so many solutions that the balance problems are ridiculously easy to fix
 
Last edited:
  • 3Like
Reactions:
TBH Robots having 100% habitability never really made "real world" sense. Robots built for deserts would end up with oxidized circuits from ocean air, and robots built for the ocean would end up filled with desert sand. Robots built for water or atmosphere would overheat in space, and vice versa. It only really works if you assume that the 100% habitability is because robots are being altered to suit each planet planet but pulling that thread brings the whole template system into question.

Also if robots could live in both the vacuum of space and the abrasive dust of a desert planet and the corrosive hellscape that is a wet planet then why can't they live on barren planets? Barren planets are just regular planets with no free oxygen on them and for a robot that's a good thing!
 
  • 9Like
Reactions:
Eladrin said:
We'll have to disagree that Void Dwellers is "gutted" in 3.9, but there is no chance of machine intelligences getting Void Dwellers unless we change some of the fundamentals about machines. (In particular, how they handle habitability.)
Click to expand...

Considered maybe playing around with Machine's Baseline habitabiltity, and make it a 80% mininum habitability, -20% habitability cap? and some pricey traits locked behind Synthetic Age, re-improving the cap so they're back at 100% in the mid-late game for some trait-tax
 
  • 2Like
Reactions:
Critical Ethics said:
Out of curiosity is there a current reason why mining stations and research stations are distinct structures or is it a legacy feature?
Click to expand...
There's a minor benefit in that you're able to prioritize what to build on a system level from the galactic map (getting all the mining stations first is likely more valuable for most systems) without having to resort to actually microing each individual deposit. Though this benefit matters less later in the game and with auto-constructors.
 
Critical Ethics said:
TBH Robots having 100% habitability never really made "real world" sense. Robots built for deserts would end up with oxidized circuits from ocean air, and robots built for the ocean would end up filled with desert sand. Robots built for water or atmosphere would overheat in space, and vice versa. It only really works if you assume that the 100% habitability is because robots are being altered to suit each planet planet but pulling that thread brings the whole template system into question.

Also if robots could live in both the vacuum of space and the abrasive dust of a desert planet and the corrosive hellscape that is a wet planet then why can't they live on barren planets? Barren planets are just regular planets with no free oxygen on them and for a robot that's a good thing!
Click to expand...
Obviously it's just a balance concern to stop machines having 10x as many planets, but I like to think that while they easily live on a barren world, it would be so inefficient at producing resources it doesn't appear as an option. This could be explained by a little note in the tooltip:
"Non-viable colony location, operational costs due to shielding, power, transport and maintenance would exceed estimated output by a factor of 3.1415"

My headcanon is just that machines were designed for the most common biome first to aid construction (like earth), then as probes and unmanned vehicles for biomes the race isn't able to live in (like Humans have rovers like Curiosity on mars). So no matter what the starting habitat they have designs matching all planet types.

So a goldfish builds simple underwater contraptions to help with tasks (fishing nets, cages, balloons over thermal vents etc then eventually artificial fins and full mech-suits), surface vessels (supermarines), eventually space probes. Early fish robots may need water to function, but like humans they would quickly learn the most appropriate/cheapest way of making tools last as long as needed. I assume the alloy construction cost and maintenance drones represents the constant influx of spare parts.

But I would like a more realistic system, the technology to thrive in extreme environments has a cost.
Cheap robots need a huge amount of maintenance on low habitability / hazardous worlds but can be made from available materials (food, minerals) so we can have some primitive machine intelligences or primitive mechanists.
Alloy robots need more maintenance on low habitability worlds, and huge amounts of maintenance in hazardous environments
Shielded+Armoured+Fuelled robots (Gas, Crystal, Motes) need almost no maintenance and can survive in hostile environments (Radiation, Corrosion, High-Gravity).

Build a cheap robot in a hostile environment and you need to build a lot of them and keep replacing them (lower effective pop growth rate, higher pop amenities use), if you stop constructing them you actually start to get pop decline instead as the older models start to break down.

If habitability was changed I could imagine Machines getting a starting Habitability preference indicating the environment they are designed for and where they need least maintenance. Modifications to expand the envionments they can tolerate could cost alloys or rare resources depending on the hazard the modification counters.

Primitive Robots could cost minerals/food and only barely function on one biome (for primitive mechanists/machine intelligences)
Robots/Droids/Synths could cost increasing amounts but tolerate more environments and gain productivity increases from the advanced traits.
Void-Machines modified for planets need additional power for drones and shuttles working against gravity (Volatile Motes)
Void-Machines modified for space (default) would need exotic gases for shielding (with gas income instead of CG income from the first habitat).
Void-Machines on ocean/toxic worlds need corrosion resistance (Rare Crystals)

So you could go down that path, adding lots of traits, starting habitability and interactions with different planet types and environmental hazards, updating the UI to show it all clearly... but after thinking about it I'm not sure if it adds much other than being a bit fiddly with multiple pop templates just to slow down machines from spreading too quickly.

So, in summary:
100% habitability is fine to me, barren planets just need a tooltip to say why they're non-viable
Machine could have habitability mechanics (different resource costs, growth rates, amenities use) to balance and stagger expansion to different biomes.
But multiple templates could be annoying and I think there are simpler ways to balance machines (planet modifiers, capitals, deposits, colony costs, penalties for natural blockers, Hazardous Weather and other -% Habitability modifiers updated to also increase Machine amenities use where appropriate)
 
Question : do you have any clue to make ME more unique to play? I thought maybe we could use some kind of modules and components to make them evolve in different way all game. Like habitability components wich add habitability but add assembly cost and maintenance for example. And to be an unique thing and not a copy of traits maybe create something like ship designer but for them?
And make them cost other things, like if you want to add a living metal component or zro modules, maybe have the consume ressources. So machines have to rely more on special ressources.
 
  • 1Like
Reactions:
DrFranknfurter said:
I agree they need to be less good using planets. There are a lot of ways of doing that just adapting existing mechanics and not having to invent anything new.

1. Worlds without a Tree of Life planetary feature have the following penalties:
−50% Planet Build Speed
−25% Resources from Jobs
+10% Upkeep from Jobs
−5 Stability
Void-Machines could have a penalty on planets until they overcome the gravity+organic matter problems.

2. Tree of life also changes the price of colony ships (more food, less alloys). Alternate colony ships also modify planets like adding the "Lithoid Crater"
Void-Machines could have significantly more expensive colony ships
Void-Machines could have a very expensive alternate colony ship that (partially or fully) negates the normal gravity+organic penalties.

3. Lubrication Terminal increases +1% Pop amenities usage instead of −0.75 Habitability that Permutation Attendance Drone get.
Void-Machines could have higher Pop amenities usage on planets instead of having low habitability or happiness.

The mechanism to apply this could be:
  • Pop trait that all machine templates need to contain to be eligible to be constructed
  • Modified planetary capital building
  • Planet modifier
  • Planet deposit
4. Environmentalist gain unity from natural blockers
Void-Machines could PAY unity and additional amenities for each natural blocker

Obviously I could go on. To me there are so many solutions that the balance problems are ridiculously easy to fix
Click to expand...

1. Still leaves void-machines insanely overpowered. Especially since the benefits from the habitats outweigh the planetary costs, which is not the case for organics unless you really spec into it. So your colonies can subsidize your planets.
2. The problem here is that The effect applies to the planet which is another thing that gets coded and its something that effectively ruins the planet for every other nation, and as such lends itself best to a determined exterminator run. Just like the lithoid origin.
3. Machine don't have habitability at all. That's the crux of the problem. Giving them that would pretty much get rid of what makes machines unique.
4. Unless it is a lot, it still makes them overpowered.

There are not many good solutions. The best would be to just make the void machine incapable of colonizing planets as they are built out of tissue thin crap, good ole pressure less void and would be crushed even under one atmosphere. However that gets rid of the one thing that makes void dwellers stand out from organic gestalts. Hence why they almost certainly ruled this solution out.
There is no good and easy solution.

DrFranknfurter said:
Obviously it's just a balance concern to stop machines having 10x as many planets, but I like to think that while they easily live on a barren world, it would be so inefficient at producing resources it doesn't appear as an option. This could be explained by a little note in the tooltip:
"Non-viable colony location, operational costs due to shielding, power, transport and maintenance would exceed estimated output by a factor of 3.1415"


So, in summary:
100% habitability is fine to me, barren planets just need a tooltip to say why they're non-viable
Machine could have habitability mechanics (different resource costs, growth rates, amenities use) to balance and stagger expansion to different biomes.
But multiple templates could be annoying and I think there are simpler ways to balance machines (planet modifiers, capitals, deposits, colony costs, penalties for natural blockers, Hazardous Weather and other -% Habitability modifiers updated to also increase Machine amenities use where appropriate)
Click to expand...
Barren planets being uninhabitable has to do with the fact that they have no or little atmosphere. Massive temp fluctuations can wreck havoc on even the most sturdiest of metals. Mercuracy the day night cycle can vary by over 600 degrees (430 to -180 C). On Mars the day night cycle is a bit bearable (20 to -73), and Plto is -223 to -233C. Zero Kelvin is the point at which molecular motion is nearly frozen completely, and that is at -273.15 C. If you put a tooltip on why barren planets aren't habitable, then you need to do the same for gas giants and toxic worlds. Because they are all equally habitable. Meaning not at all livable. My problem with this, is just why? It's opportunity cost.

Again I will state it, Machines having no habitability is what sets them apart from organic hives. That's what makes them different. Adding habitability to them, makes them no longer unique and in turns means that they need a complete rework. Which will not be easy, and no matter what they do, people will be upset about it.
 
Last edited:
  • 2Like
  • 1
Reactions:
Critical Ethics said:
TBH Robots having 100% habitability never really made "real world" sense. Robots built for deserts would end up with oxidized circuits from ocean air, and robots built for the ocean would end up filled with desert sand. Robots built for water or atmosphere would overheat in space, and vice versa. It only really works if you assume that the 100% habitability is because robots are being altered to suit each planet planet but pulling that thread brings the whole template system into question.

Also if robots could live in both the vacuum of space and the abrasive dust of a desert planet and the corrosive hellscape that is a wet planet then why can't they live on barren planets? Barren planets are just regular planets with no free oxygen on them and for a robot that's a good thing!
Click to expand...

Underrated comment I think. ^^
 
  • 2Like
Reactions:
oreopirate said:
1. Still leaves void-machines insanely overpowered. Especially since the benefits from the habitats outweigh the planetary costs, which is not the case for organics unless you really spec into it. So your colonies can subsidize your planets.
2. The problem here is that The effect applies to the planet which is another thing that gets coded and its something that effectively ruins the planet for every other nation, and as such lends itself best to a determined exterminator run. Just like the lithoid origin.
3. Machine don't have habitability at all. That's the crux of the problem. Giving them that would pretty much get rid of what makes machines unique.
4. Unless it is a lot, it still makes them overpowered.

There are not many good solutions. The best would be to just make the void machine incapable of colonizing planets as they are built out of tissue thin crap, good ole pressure less void and would be crushed even under one atmosphere. However that gets rid of the one thing that makes void dwellers stand out from organic gestalts. Hence why they almost certainly ruled this solution out.
There is no good and easy solution.
Click to expand...

A few comments:

On the subject of Balance
I was commenting on the type of existing mechanics that could be reused to reduce developer workload, not the magnitude of the effects needed for balancing.
(Tree of life includes -5 Stability and other things, but it could easily be any other number or any other variable like amenity usage, alloy upkeep etc.)

Void-Machines could be the weakest empire by far if all possible tools to balance them were used and set to high values (like the ridiculously high costs to interfere in the new primitive events, where some cost 25 alloys upkeep per month).

I wouldn't design Void-Machines to be "ridiculously overpowered" and I'm trying to show you how many ways you could easily and thematically weaken them if testing showed them to be problematic.
Below are some points to:
1. Limit Void-Machine Conquest
2. Limit Void-Machine Expansion
3. Add other uses to planets for Void-Machines
(using existing mechanics)

The Tree of life mechanic I wanted to highlight is that conquest gives you a planet you can't fully use by adding a planet modifier that can be removed with a planet decision. For Void-Machines this decision could have a high cost or be locked behind specific technology.
Adding a variant of this would limit Void-Machine conquest builds.

Tree of life, Private Prospectors and Calamitous Birth all use the mechanic of adding special colony ships that behave differently and have different costs.
I'm just showing how Void-Machines could be coded to have penalties to either conquest, or normal expansion into planets.
Adding a variant of this would slow Void-Machine expansion by increasing colony costs.

Special designation capitals already exist, and change how a planet can be used.
Resort Administration with the Resort world decision
Governor's Palace with Thrall world
These both change many things including amenities/stability/jobs, allowed districts/buildings
Note: The way Resort World designation is coded means the effects don't scale with planet ascension, which is probably unintended as ascensions were added afterwards and the numbers just need to be moved from the decision over to the planet designation instead so they can scale with planet level.

If developers want a specific theme then, "Living Metal Planet designation" and "Living Metal administration":
Adding a variant of this would allow Void-Machines could use planets for a specific purpose, such as the creation of Living Metal or Nanites
Similar penalties to a resort world like "Cannot support districts" "Cannot support certain buildings"
So they would use be able to use planets, but not like normal empires. Instead moving towards turning them into Nanite worlds or harvesting a special resource they want like living metal.

Or, for simple balance, "Void-Machine Planetary Administration":
Adding a variant of this would make Void-Machines less good at using planets than normal Machines empires.
They have a special administration building with some built-in penalties (alloy upkeep, amenities usage, less replicator jobs etc.)
Invading empires automatically swap to their own administration building so the penalties only last while under Void-Machine control.

There's a lot of options, if anything I worry developers would make Void-Machines too weak out of fear of them being too powerful.

Lacking Habitability isn't the only feature of Machines... they also lack a lot of other things!
(...Food, Lifespan, Consumer Goods, Trade Value, Free pop growth, Factions, Happiness, Branch Offices, Commercial Pacts, Destiny Traits...)

I find it a litle sad that most of what makes Machine empires unique in Stellaris is what they can ignore or lack rather than what special features they get instead. They do get some unique things but I would love if for every mechanic removed Machines gained something of commensurate value in return.
Instead of Destiny Traits they got the node system for example.
It would be nice if other mechanics also had interesting replacements.
(...and a machine ship-set, and advanced machine traits, special interactions with living metal, nanites...)

I love Machines... but they are so neglected in Stellaris it's painful to me.

oreopirate said:
Barren planets being inhabitable has to do with the fact that they have no or little atmosphere. Massive temp fluctuations can wreck havoc on even the most sturdiest of metals. Mercuracy the day night cycle can vary by over 600 degrees (430 to -180 C). On Mars the day night cycle is a bit bearable (20 to -73), and Plto is -223 to -233C. Zero Kelvin is the point at which molecular motion is nearly frozen completely, and that is at -273.15 C. If you put a tooltip on why barren planets aren't habitable, then you need to do the same for gas giants and toxic worlds. Because they are all equally habitable. Meaning not at all livable. My problem with this, is just why? It's opportunity cost.

Again I will state it, Machines having no habitability is what sets them apart from organic hives. That's what makes them different. Adding habitability to them, makes them no longer unique and in turns means that they need a complete rework. Which will not be easy, and no matter what they do, people will be upset about it.
Click to expand...

Also I will say that I think a most worlds could support human life with near-current technology, not considering shields and psionic powers.

Mars/Moons/Asteriods - dig down and add a vacuum seal, or use lava tubes if available
Temperature fluctuations sorted
Radiation sorted
Atmosphere sorted
...and sci-fi Shields would let you solve all those problems instantly.
But even with current technology there's lots of plans that involve a little digging, and humans are quite good at digging (3km+ in some mines), but we don't need to go that far to escape the surface temperature fluctuations.

Venus - float 50km above the surface in the clouds
Surface Temperature 450'C, 50km up is 0-50'C
Surface pressure is 90 bars, 50km up is 1 bar
A breathable atmosphere for humans would float on venus, so kinda perfect already (you just can't mine the surface, but I'd be happy to float around)

But that doesn't mean those colonies would be economically viable, just that people would be able to live there. People can live in the arctic or permanently underwater now but effectively 0.001% of people do so (500+ submarines total, each even with less than 200 crew out of 8 billion people is about 0.001% of people living underwater at any one moment in time even though for the past 80 years we've been able to build submarines that can stay at sea without refuelling for decades... it's possible, just so expensive that it's not economically viable - that's what I picture barren represents).

Foxosaur said:
Underrated comment I think. ^^
Click to expand...
I agree that "It only really works if you assume that the 100% habitability is because robots are being altered to suit each planet planet but pulling that thread brings the whole template system into question"

But I do imagine robots being shipped to a location would be made or modified to measure, it would be folly to do the equivalent of dropping a car underwater and expecting it to work. But cars and boats are interchangable in terms of materials, at least that they both can use fossil fuels, electronics and other components so a multiplanet species that can build cars should also be able to build boats.

I think it's the template system that really needs to be called into question. It needs a lot of work, because it doesn't work sensibly:
1. Some Traits don't do anything unless the trait is on the pop that is growing
Any growth boosting/cost traits can be added or removed without impacting the currently growing pop because they only apply if that tempate is under construction.
So if 99% of Robots are luxurious it doesn't matter as long as 1% currently growing is recycled.
If 99% of organic pops are infertile it doesn't matter as long as the 1% currently growing is fertile.
Obviously if 99% of the population can't breed that should matter to the total growth rate.

2. Traits don't do anything unless it's on the pop working the right job
So you need to manually weight every trait for every job, and even with perfect weights jobs are filled from the top down so having 50% of the pops being good at mining does nothing if they happen to be better the higher strata jobs... then you have 0% of those pops doing mining.

3. Machines and robots are only limited by how boring it is to design and use multiple templates
Job-specific traits encourage having 10 mining pops for 10 mining jobs... but that's annoying to do with little benefit. Making new templates is effectively free for machines and robots when a cost is obviously intended as it costs a huge amount to swap templates. But you can just skip the cost by never modifying a tempate and assembling the new template for free instead... no prototype needed.

The interaction between the template, habitability and job systems just isn't great. I would assume if I built 10 augers for ice, 10 bits of dredging equipment to collect wet sand, 10 big bucket-wheel-excavators for dry land that the correct tool would be used in the correct location. In the current game it feels like the job system would instead have the bucket-wheel-excavator working in underwater labs instead... which feels wrong on so many levels.

If I could change the Trait, Template and Habitability systems... I would:
1. Make it expensive to create new templates, but cheap to switch between them
Then organics/robots/machines all pay the same price to add or remove traits.
Currently machines skip the cost to modify pops and just build new pops instead of modifying
This also means machines can have a starting template+habitability they were initially designed for and would have to pay a cost to prototype a new template that works in other environments or performs better at other activities like mining or research, after that switching templates can be automatic to match the job and environment being worked.

2. Make traits apply to the planet
If you have a total of +10 mining traits then apply that to 10 mining jobs, with diminishing returns afterwards.
If you have 100 pops all skilled in mining and 10 mining jobs you should have the best of the best available for any mining task in any location (larger mining bonus from traits).
Then you don't have to micro pop jobs, there's just diminishing returns for having all pops in a single template.

3. Change traits (pop and leader) to enourage you to build more of the job instead of less of that job.
Traits that increase the output of a job encourage you to build less of that job (+minerals from miners means fewer miners and more alloy jobs)
Traits that add extra benefits to a job make you want more of that job (+stability from miners means miners are useful even on research worlds)
Traits should be designed to encourage you to want more of that job in your empire for thematic reasons. An empire with amazing miners feels wrong if it employs fewer miners than any other empire would.

So...
Void-Machines could be fun, and don't need to be overpowered
Habitability and Traits could be better.
 
  • 1
  • 1Like
Reactions:
Eladrin said:
At the time of the original dev diary in late July, it was still considered experimental. With the additional work done in the weeks that followed, I deemed it worthy of an Open Beta for consideration to include in 3.9. Based on Open Beta feedback, it could have either been pulled back out, but I made the decision that it should go ahead.
Click to expand...

darth-vader-altering-the-deal-i0qkrtvj5uah6b1a.gif
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom
Back