Stellaris Dev Diary #221 - Balance and Quality of Life Improvements

Hey folks, I’m @Alfray Stryke, a member of the QA team for Stellaris. As part of the Custodians’ work on the 3.1 “Lem” patch, as mentioned in Dev Diary #215, the team has done a balance and Quality of Life pass on various features throughout the game and we’d like to highlight some of the more harder hitting changes. This is not a complete list of all changes, and may contain some not-final numbers. As a reminder, the changes to the Necroids Species Pack were covered in Dev Diary #216, and all of these changes will also be included in the Lem update.

Void Dwellers

We’ve been aware that the implementation of Void Dwellers of having two separate traits, one positive and one negative resulted in behaviour that we weren’t happy with - in particular being able to gene-mod the negative aspects of the trait out of existence. To solve this we’ve made some changes to how the traits work:

  • There is now only a single Void Dweller trait, so it can’t be exploited via genetic modification of your species.
  • The modifiers on the trait itself have changed, previously it gave:
    • +15% Resources from Worker and Specialist jobs & -10% growth speed (for the positive version)
    • -60% growth speed (for the negative version)
  • The new version of the trait is now:
    • +15% Pop Resource Output on Habitats.
    • -15% Pop Resource Output on Non-Artificial Worlds.
    • -10% Growth Speed
    • -30% Happiness on Non-Artificial Worlds.

Void Dweller.png

The new, improved, Void Dweller trait with its modifiers.

What this means is your Void Dwellers pops are most productive and happiest on habitats, have their bonuses removed on ringworlds and have production and happiness penalties if they settle on planets (best to leave those for immigrants or robots!)

Shattered Ring

So before you grab your plasma-pitchforks (yes, plasma-pitchforks are canon now), rebalancing the Shattered Ring origin is something the team has been discussing for a while. We’ve gone through various iterations on decreasing the initial power of the origin, while keeping the player fantasy that it provides in mind and eventually settled on having the progression of the Shattered Ring resemble that of the Remnants origin.

Shattered Ring.png

The Voor Technocracy, showing off the Shattered Ringworld Segment as a homeworld.

The shattered ring itself supports the following district types:
  • City, Hive & Nexus - housing depending on your empire type.
  • Industrial - where valuable consumer goods and alloys can be manufactured.
  • Trade - where clerks turn a tidy profit and artisans run their workshops.
  • Generator (not pictured) - where hive-minds and machine intelligence power their infrastructure. Note that Generator and Trade districts swap depending on the owner of the Shattered Ring, much like Commercial and Generator Segments on a ringworld.
  • Agricultural - where food is grown for those that eat it.
  • Mining - more on that in a moment...

Once all the rubble has been cleared out, there’s space for 25 of these districts.

So you might be wondering, “Are those mining districts on my ringworld? What am I mining?”

Well dear reader, the answer is the ring itself!

Mining District.png

Mining districts, aka tunnels filled with valuable minerals and alloys.

As a civilization that has only known life on the ring prior to achieving spaceflight, the only resources available to you were those that made up the ringworld itself. Luckily ruined ringworlds are massive and can spare some missing broken materials without falling into their local sun.

As such your mining district on the shattered ring replaces the regular miner jobs with scrap miner jobs with a base job output of 2 minerals and 1 alloy per month.

Of course, as was alluded to above, we wanted the progression for the shattered ring to resemble that of the relic world from the Remnants origin. So once you’ve cleared all the debris from the shattered ring and researched the appropriate technology you can repair it into a fully functioning ringworld segment.

Repair Shattered Ring.png

Of course, sometimes a bit of home repair work needs to be done.

Upon completion of this monumental task, the districts on the shattered ring are upgraded into their respective ringworld districts at a 5:1 ratio - so 5 agricultural districts become 1 agricultural segment. Since fixing up the ring means you’ll no longer be clearing out material, the mining districts are removed and the ability to construct research segments is added.

Ecumenopolis QoL Changes

Something we’ve received a lot of feedback on is that when a world is transformed into an Ecumenopolis is the assignment of industrial districts.

Prior to 3.1, all of the industrial districts were assumed to be devoted to alloy production and thus converted into foundry arcologies. No more, in 3.1 industrial districts will convert based off of the planetary designation:

  • With the “Foundry World” designation, industrial districts will convert into foundry arcologies, at a 2:1 ratio
  • With the “Factory World” designation, industrial districts will convert into factory arcologies, at a 2:1 ratio.
  • With any other designation, including the “Industrial World” designation, industrial districts will convert into both foundry and factory arcologies, at a 4:1:1 ratio.

Relic World.png

Earth, a bygone relic of a time long past, ready to be restored anew.

Ecumenopolis.png

Earth, restored anew! Note that the local governing algorithm did not assume all industrial capabilities should be focused on supporting the Custodianship Navy.

Another change we’ve implemented is the Arcology Project ascension perk and decision to restore relic worlds into ecumenopolises is now accessible to Rogue Servitors. In addition, the leisure arcologies that would normally be present have been repurposed for housing bio-trophies in luxurious towering arcologies.

Sanctuary Arcology.png

Pampering will be provided at Floor 314, Room 15 at 9:26 am.


Assorted QoL Changes

As mentioned above, the planetary designation for consumer goods has been renamed to Factory World, because we’ve added an Industrial World designation.

Industrial Designations.png

Multiple planetary designations for your various needs

The new Industrial World designation is ideal for planets where you don’t want to focus the Industrial districts on a single job type, instead providing a minor upkeep discount to both Artisan and Metallurgist jobs.

Industrial World.png

Industrial World Designation

Both Hive Worlds and Machine Worlds have gained an additional bonus to bring them more in line with Gaia Worlds. Hive Worlds now have +1 innate Spawning Drone job and Machine Worlds now have +1 innate Replicator job. The Machine World given by the Resource Consolidation origin starts with a blocker which will need to be cleared to unlock the Replicator job.

Hive World.png
Machine World.png


Subversive Cults (MegaCorps with both Gospel of the Masses and Criminal Syndicate) no longer have access to the Temple of Prosperity. Instead, they can now establish a Subversive Shrine in their branch offices - increasing both Spiritualist ethics attraction and crime on the planet.

Subversive Shrine.png

Subversive Shrine Tooltip.png

Subvert expectations with deals so good they’re criminal!

With that I’ll pass things over to @Gruntsatwork to discuss some of the changes we’ve made to civics!

----

Hello everyone. I am one of Game Designers currently working on Stellaris and on the Custodian Team. While we have been busy with radical changes here and there, new civics and origins, we also wanted to have some more tame but no less important balance changes for our already existing civics, specifically for our outliers and those we felt under- or especially over-utilized.

The following lists all the civics we felt needed a substantial lift up
Regular Empires
  • Beacon of Liberty: Gave +15% produced Unity -> Now ALSO also gives -15% Empire Sprawl from Pops
  • Imperial Cult: Gave +1 Edict cap -> Now gives +2 Edict cap
  • Idealistic Foundation: Gave +5% Happiness -> Now gives +10% Happiness
  • Environmentalist: Gave -10% Consumer Goods Upkeep -> Now gives -20% Consumer Goods Upkeep
  • Parliamentary System: Gave +25% Faction Influence -> Now gives +40% Faction Influence
  • Efficient Bureaucracy: Gave +10% Admin Cap -> Now gives +20% Admin Cap
  • Nationalistic Zeal: Gave -10% War Exhaustion Gain and -10% Claim Cost -> Now gives -20% War Exhaustion Gain and -15% Claim Cost
  • Functional Architecture: Gave -10% Building and District Cost, -10% Building and District Upkeep and +1 Building Slot -> Now gives -15% Building and District Cost, +2 Building Slots, Upkeep reduction removed
Hive-Minds
  • Subspace Ephase: Gave +15% Naval Capacity -> Now gives +20% Ship Speed and ALSO gives +15% Naval Capacity
  • Divided Attention: Gave +10% Admin Cap -> Now gives +20% Admin Cap
Machine Intelligences
  • Constructobot: Gave -10% Building and District Cost, -10% Building and District Upkeep and +1 Building Slot -> Now gives -15% Building and District Cost, +2 Building Slots, Upkeep reduction removed
We hope those changes, while strictly number tweaks, will give those civics a breath of fresh air and increase their appeal to the wider player-base because, “oh, shiny new numbers” is one hell of a drug.

Now sadly, only strengthening the civics we felt undervalued or under-used doesn’t solve all issues, so we also introduced some slight nerfs to the 2(3) biggest offenders in terms of being “must have” civics.
  • Slaver Guilds : Reduced enslaved population from 40% to 35%
  • Indentured Assets: Reduced enslaved population from 40% to 35% (Megacorp civic)
  • Technocracy: Added 1 Consumer Goods upkeep to Scientist Jobs that create unity because of Technocracy

As you can tell, for the slaver guild civics, this change is relatively minor, compared to the Technocracy nerf. The goal here is to make those 3 civics slightly less good. We have no intention of nerfing them into the ground. Our goal here is to move them from “the best pick, every time” to “could be best pick, depending on circumstances”.

We will be following your feedback here and over all other platforms very closely as well as our own telemetry and we will keep adjusting and tweaking the civics as we go on.

As an extra note, we know that there are several other civics that definitely need a pick me up, we will be looking into them as well, but not for the Lem update.

That’s everything from us this week! Thanks for reading and we’ll be back next week diving into more changes in the Lem Update.
 
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Salinatus

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So.. Now that Subversive Shrine is a thing, can we also get a criminal equivalent of the Xeno-Outreach Agency? =p

After all, migration is migration, who said it had to be voluntary.
 
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Tannhäuser Cake

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Xeno Trafficking?
 
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zZander56

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So.. Now that Subversive Shrine is a thing, can we also get a criminal equivalent of the Xeno-Outreach Agency? =p

After all, migration is migration, who said it had to be voluntary.
*This*, man. There's a lot of potential for alternate effects for a criminal version of the Executive Retreat and Xeno Outreach Agency.

Even if you don't change anything about them though, simply tacking on "+40% crime" would make them usable instead of a waste of tech rolls.
 
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Nebbie Zebbie

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No more of the AI having species with multiple variations of the Void Dwellers trait, I see.

SH changes seem like an overnerf. Mining alloys is big, but not nearly as big as research districts were, and SH was already pretty much off the table for organics due to the habitability issues. Now with the starting world being comparable to a normal one, I question whether machines would even care. Give back guaranteed habitables, but with random type for it, and let us restore the segment the Interloper's in lategame, and it'd probably be a fine origin.

On the subject of origins, I do like that the current odd state of affairs is changing, but can we please look at buffs for Post-Apocalyptic and Galactic Doorstep next? Post-Apocalyptic just has so much flavor to be had with habitability tech boost events or colonization bonuses, but instead it's like not having an origin because it's just a few minor number changes with a bad capital right now. Galactic Doorstep meanwhile is the exact opposite, having a whole event chain that...gives you too little in actual numbers changes because the resource bonuses are countered by having to spend a bunch on corvettes early, and you don't get enuff tech progress in the gateway stuff to really go for it early.

The civics changes seem a bit misguided. You're buffing mostly civics people would already consider, not the trash tier ones (except Idealistic Foundation of course), and the bigger numbers in some cases just aren't enuff (again, Idealistic Foundation).
I predict Parliamentary System to be a go-to for Democracy after this. I also expect the war civics to be just too strong when people switch into them for only the duration of a war.

Very glad to see that RS can restore relic worlds, as that one always bugged me.
Since Rogue Servitors can now build Ecumenopoli, can we potentially unlock Life Seeded and Post Apocalyptic for them as well?
I want my WALL-E people! Also, Life-Seeded could use a buff too.
 
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Ketrai

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No more of the AI having species with multiple variations of the Void Dwellers trait, I see.

SH changes seem like an overnerf. Mining alloys is big, but not nearly as big as research districts were, and SH was already pretty much off the table for organics due to the habitability issues. Now with the starting world being comparable to a normal one, I question whether machines would even care. Give back guaranteed habitables, but with random type for it, and let us restore the segment the Interloper's in lategame, and it'd probably be a fine origin.

On the subject of origins, I do like that the current odd state of affairs is changing, but can we please look at buffs for Post-Apocalyptic and Galactic Doorstep next? Post-Apocalyptic just has so much flavor to be had with habitability tech boost events or colonization bonuses, but instead it's like not having an origin because it's just a few minor number changes with a bad capital right now. Galactic Doorstep meanwhile is the exact opposite, having a whole event chain that...gives you too little in actual numbers changes because the resource bonuses are countered by having to spend a bunch on corvettes early, and you don't get enuff tech progress in the gateway stuff to really go for it early.

The civics changes seem a bit misguided. You're buffing mostly civics people would already consider, not the trash tier ones (except Idealistic Foundation of course), and the bigger numbers in some cases just aren't enuff (again, Idealistic Foundation).
I predict Parliamentary System to be a go-to for Democracy after this. I also expect the war civics to be just too strong when people switch into them for only the duration of a war.

Very glad to see that RS can restore relic worlds, as that one always bugged me.

I want my WALL-E people! Also, Life-Seeded could use a buff too.

SR (shattered ring). It's not really as weak as you mean it out to be. And considering it was literally the strongest origin in the game past scion... With the new ring origin you can at least mine alloys, which is a pretty big efficiency increase. You get to be very productive early game. I did the math in detail, you need about 20-25% less pops to make the same amount of alloys. Which will make it one of the strongest alloy rushing origins.

Post apocalyptic needs a way to make tomb worlds. Not ever exterminators can consistently nuke a world. And whilst we have collosus, those immediately go a step further. Hey, primitives are BETTER at nuking worlds than some hyper advanced space civilization. That's just... Not very cool.
 

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With the attention to shattered ring, voidborne, and the ecumenopolis, and that it looks like we're going to have another planetary decision to wait on - have you guys considered allowing some form of bonus to augment the speed of these decisions? Specifically: upgrading habitats, restoring/creating ecumenopoli, and (with this dev diary) restoring a shattered ring. The obvious candidate that comes to mind would naturally be megastructure construction speed.

I find in particular when leaning heavily into the voidborne playstyle, it becomes painfully obvious that upgrading habitats never gets faster despite all the other build speed improvements. Also, I am a masochist and want to click _even_more_ on my habitats.

And as a pipedream that's very likely out of scope of the changes discussed, an ideal scenario would be the ability to queue up buildings/decisions whos requirements aren't currently met, but will be (checking what's enqueued, or what could be done out of band that may meet requirements, otherwise failing when it's turn comes around.) But my intuition tells me that would be far more involved. This is just a problem with some of the gating upgrades in general on planets (planetary admin, etc.)
 
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HFY

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With the attention to shattered ring, voidborne, and the ecumenopolis, and that it looks like we're going to have another planetary decision to wait on - have you guys considered allowing some form of bonus to augment the speed these decisions? Specifically: upgrading habitats, restoring/creating ecumenopoli, and (with this dev diary) restoring a shattered ring. The obviously candidate that comes to mind would naturally be megastructure construction speed.

There is at least one mod which adds a -% planetary decision speed bonus, so I think that's technically already in the game -- just not used by anything yet.

I don't like the idea of tying that bonus to megastructure speed, which is already very powerful, but I do like the idea of putting it somewhere in the game. Perhaps in a Tradition (Domination) which lost a bunch of nice things recently.
 

khazit66

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SR (shattered ring). It's not really as weak as you mean it out to be. And considering it was literally the strongest origin in the game past scion... With the new ring origin you can at least mine alloys, which is a pretty big efficiency increase. You get to be very productive early game. I did the math in detail, you need about 20-25% less pops to make the same amount of alloys. Which will make it one of the strongest alloy rushing origins.

Post apocalyptic needs a way to make tomb worlds. Not ever exterminators can consistently nuke a world. And whilst we have collosus, those immediately go a step further. Hey, primitives are BETTER at nuking worlds than some hyper advanced space civilization. That's just... Not very cool.
Mining alloy is only really a boon for alloy rush conquest build, in any other circumstance, SR is a worse Life seeded, with no distinctive advantages and 2 big disadvantages that are frankly not worth it now.
 

Objulen

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Mining alloy is only really a boon for alloy rush conquest build, in any other circumstance, SR is a worse Life seeded, with no distinctive advantages and 2 big disadvantages that are frankly not worth it now.
How do the numbers figure into that? Alloys are much more expensive to get early game with the pop cost, and the increased space minerals helps make up for the loss in minerals from jobs.
 

Eled the Worm Tamer

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No changes to crime?

If you have no criminal mega corps its a non entity, if you do then it manages to mount up too fast (that is to say that crime % goes up in big chunks and each % of crime causes big effects) but also to be hit down too fast (so its basically impossible to have branch offices that are useful because the AI will pave its planets in enforcers to quash crime.)
 
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Technocracy is not nerfed into ground, its nerfed below ground, with two researchers costing like three (worse if increase is additive) and they are primary CG consumers among jobs. On top of that, you wont have consumer benefits from start, you need to adopt mercantile tradition tree, further worsening CG situation, wich in turn hits your alloys production or research (for civic that supposed to be pinnacle materialism), and all that for 1 unity per researcher, or real bonus is pop efficiency? How pop efficient will this civic be with increased demand for artisans?
There is also a good thought on spiritualist/materialist balance:
The issue I have with technocracy is not that it is op good, but that it takes away the weakness materialists are supposed to have. It even turns it into a strength! Materialists are supposed to be strong in science, but weak in unity. Spiritualists are supposed to be weak at science, but good at unity. Because technocracy let's scientist produce unity they are now good at producing science and good at producing unity. They can even produce more unity than spiritualist. That just wrecks the intended balance and further weakens the underpowered spiritualist.
If its so OP paradox should have just cut unity gain, or removed it completely but not hinder what technocracy is supposed to be efficient at, just research directors are already good enough to pick this civic and reflect its narrative, and there won't be need to lock it up behind fan.materialism if its nerfed, for more flexibility in builds.
 
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Technocracy is not nerfed into ground, its nerfed below ground, with two researchers costing like three (worse if increase is additive) and they are primary CG consumers among jobs. On top of that, you wont have consumer benefits from start, you need to adopt mercantile tradition tree, further worsening CG situation, wich in turn hits your alloys production or research (for civic that supposed to be pinnacle materialism), and all that for 1 unity per researcher, or real bonus is pop efficiency? How pop efficient will this civic be with increased demand for artisans?
There is also a good thought on spiritualist/materialist balance:

If its so OP paradox should have just cut unity gain, or removed it completely but not hinder what technocracy is supposed to be efficient at, just research directors are already good enough to pick this civic and reflect its narrative, and there won't be need to lock it up behind fan.materialism if its nerfed, for more flexibility in builds.
One CG seems like it is too much. .5 CGs seems more reasonable.

Is the CG cost affected by traditions? Discovery is usually a good 1st choice anyway, but with Technocracy it may be critical.

Most technocracy builds incorporate Meritocracy, but it may be prudent to use Master Crafters at the start of the game and get Meritocracy later, once you have a stronger CG base.
 

Rostyk.96

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One CG seems like it is too much. .5 CGs seems more reasonable.

Is the CG cost affected by traditions? Discovery is usually a good 1st choice anyway, but with Technocracy it may be critical.

Most technocracy builds incorporate Meritocracy, but it may be prudent to use Master Crafters at the start of the game and get Meritocracy later, once you have a stronger CG base.
No additional costs are reasonable IMO, because they hinder your economy or research, technocratic researchers plainly become worse than their normal counterparts at their job, people are too fixated on unity it gives, at the very least research directors can generate unity instead, like merchants in guilds, but even without it, research you get from them in exchange of unity is worth the civic slot.
Edit: i mean, yes, ofcourse it can be tweaked by changing CG cost or something, but id rather have it lighter and flexible, without additional costs attached to research production (its more important than unity), with option to use culture workers if unity is needed, and they wouldn't be redundant for technocracies this way.

If added cost is additive like upkeep reductions from discovery, then 1CG will remain unchanged, making it even more disadvantageous in comparison with no-technocracy empires.
But it probably won't be additive.

That makes technocracy incorporating builds even more rigid. I'd rather have it balanced, not heavy on economy, not locked behind fan.materialist and more versatile.
Also, my point was that technocracy downside makes it too much of liability, why compensate for technocracy when you can pick meritocracy + master crafters instead?
 
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Objulen

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No additional costs are reasonable IMO, because they hinder your economy or research, technocratic researchers plainly become worse than their normal counterparts at their job, people are too fixated on unity it gives, at the very least research directors can generate unity instead, like merchants in guilds, but even without it, research you get from them in exchange of unity is worth the civic slot.
Edit: i mean, yes, ofcourse it can be tweaked by changing CG cost or something, but id rather have it lighter and flexible, without additional costs attached to research production (its more important than unity), with option to use culture workers if unity is needed, and they wouldn't be redundant for technocracies this way.

If added cost is additive like upkeep reductions from discovery, then 1CG will remain unchanged, making it even more disadvantageous in comparison with no-technocracy empires.
But it probably won't be additive.

That makes technocracy incorporating builds even more rigid. I'd rather have it balanced, not heavy on economy, not locked behind fan.materialist and more versatile.
Also, my point was that technocracy downside makes it too much of liability, why compensate for technocracy when you can pick meritocracy + master crafters instead?
The main advantage of technocracy is that it basically gives you free pops by adding a feature to a job type you already want a bunch of that's removes the need for a less desirable job type.

An additional CG cost isn't unreasonable -- culture workers have a CG cost, and Technocracy basically replaces them. However, that cost should be balanced around the culture worker's productivity. They produce 3 Unity and 3 Soc Research for 2 CG. Getting 1 Unity for 1 CG seems overly expensive.

As it is, Technocracy still has the same utility, just nerfed, since you'll need to spend more jobs on CG production. You'll basically end up needing an extra 2 pops for every 6 researchers, who in turn produce the same unity as 2 culture workers. That's a bit of a wash, but it is improved by technologies, planet types, traditions, etc. If Discovery traditions apply, for example, you only need 4.8 CGs, which gives better returns right there.

I'll need to play through the game to see it in action, but I don't think that even 1 CG will be excessively severe in the long run. The main speed bump will be early game, which Master Crafters can help with, and provide some extra utility that's helpful for a Materialist Empire anyway.
 
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Tamwin5

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The main advantage of technocracy is that it basically gives you free pops by adding a feature to a job type you already want a bunch of that's removes the need for a less desirable job type.

An additional CG cost isn't unreasonable -- culture workers have a CG cost, and they're Technocracy basically replaces them. However, that cost should be balanced around the culture worker's productivity. They produce 3 Unity and 3 Soc Research for 2 CG. Getting 1 Unity for 1 CG seems overly expensive.

As it is, Technocracy still has the same utility, just nerfed, since you'll need to spend more jobs on CG production. You'll basically end up needing an extra 2 pops for every 6 researchers, who in turn produce the same unity as 2 culture workers. That's a bit of a wash, but it is improved by technologies, planet types, traditions, etc. If Discovery traditions apply, for example, you only need 4.8 CGs, which gives better returns right there.

I'll need to play through the game to see it in action, but I don't think that even 1 CG will be excessively severe in the long run. The main speed bump will be early game, which Master Crafters can help with, and provide some extra utility that's helpful for a Materialist Empire anyway.
You are also forgetting they give science directors, which are upkeep free superior researchers (who also benefit from the +1 unity). Honestly the additional research from science directors is at least a third of the strength of technocracy, since it's strongest in early game and helps propel the research snowball.
 
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Rostyk.96

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The main advantage of technocracy is that it basically gives you free pops by adding a feature to a job type you already want a bunch of that's removes the need for a less desirable job type.

An additional CG cost isn't unreasonable -- culture workers have a CG cost, and they're Technocracy basically replaces them. However, that cost should be balanced around the culture worker's productivity. They produce 3 Unity and 3 Soc Research for 2 CG. Getting 1 Unity for 1 CG seems overly expensive.

As it is, Technocracy still has the same utility, just nerfed, since you'll need to spend more jobs on CG production. You'll basically end up needing an extra 2 pops for every 6 researchers, who in turn produce the same unity as 2 culture workers. That's a bit of a wash, but it is improved by technologies, planet types, traditions, etc. If Discovery traditions apply, for example, you only need 4.8 CGs, which gives better returns right there.

I'll need to play through the game to see it in action, but I don't think that even 1 CG will be excessively severe in the long run. The main speed bump will be early game, which Master Crafters can help with, and provide some extra utility that's helpful for a Materialist Empire anyway.
You don't understand. You don't get any free pops because you need them in CG production, multiply amout of artisans needed to cover expenses by 50% too. Wich is more important is that unity doesn't matter, research does, you won't want to have extra unity, you want extra research, that what i meant when i wrote about people too fixated on unity it gives, unity was just addition to research, this civic doesn't need unity. You get exact same amout of research for 50% cost, that makes technocratic researchers lose to normal ones, technocracy literally made worse for science, thats not reasonable at all, we don't need to replace culture workers, just let them do their job and researchers their's, and that with CW job being bad on itself, entertainers give you unity at better ratio and ameneties on top. Ofcourse you can argue that technocracy can be civic that gives unity at expense of research, but that will be differences of opinions.

And i don't know how you calculated extra 2 pops per 6 researchers, but that even worse than what i thought, 2 pops that could have made extra research or alloys per 6 researchers. Maybe you meant 1 pop? But that still not worth it. And if discovery traditions apply that won't make difference because they apply to everyone and gap between technocracy and normal empires remains same, and discovery tree is too good to not pick it.
 
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Rostyk.96

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You are also forgetting they give science directors, which are upkeep free superior researchers (who also benefit from the +1 unity). Honestly the additional research from science directors is at least a third of the strength of technocracy, since it's strongest in early game and helps propel the research snowball.
And they alone are good enough for this civic, without extra CG costs for overrated unity that now only drags this civic down.
 
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You don't understand. You don't get any free pops because you need them in CG production, multiply amout of artisans needed to cover expenses by 50% too. Wich is more important is that unity doesn't matter, research does, you won't want to have extra unity, you want extra research, that what i meant when i wrote about people too fixated on unity it gives, unity was just addition to research, this civic doesn't need unity. You get exact same amout of research for 50% cost, that makes technocratic researchers lose to normal ones, technocracy literally made worse for science, thats not reasonable at all, we don't need to replace culture workers, just let them do their job and researchers their's, and that with CW job being bad on itself, entertainers give you unity at better ratio and ameneties on top. Ofcourse you can argue that technocracy can be civic that gives unity at expense of research, but that will be differences of opinions.

And i don't know how you calculated extra 2 pops per 6 researchers, but that even worse than what i thought, 2 pops that could have made extra research or alloys per 6 researchers. Maybe you meant 1 pop? But that still not worth it. And if discovery traditions apply that won't make difference because they apply to everyone and gap between technocracy and normal empires remains same, and discovery tree is too good to not pick it.
I mean, unity does matter. If you think unity is completely worthless, try playing a machine empire (without maintenance protocols) and never build any unity. It takes forever to get your traditions. Unity actually got noticeably better with 3.1, as now you can ignore the worst 4 tradition trees. Expansion is great, Discovery is great, Supremacy is great, Prosperity is great. The trouble is that unity falls off hard once you have all the trees, and it's generally better to get more research than more unity. Turning 1 CG into 1 unity is pretty bad, but turning 0.6 CG into 1 unity is worth it.

Technocracy doesn't increase the cost of researchers by 50%. The main cost is the pops working the jobs, but then you also have the building slot, the upkeep on the buildings, food for the pops, CG for the pops... While it's hard to pin down numbers for these things, the upkeep for a single researcher is around 9CG equivalents (ignoring the value of the pop itself). So adding 1 extra CG is an increase of 10%, not 50%.
 
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