Stellaris Dev Diary #211: 3.0.3 Beta Updates

[Kommunist Fried Chicken]

• [Balance] Clerk trade value has been increased to 4.

I believe you want to say "has been increased to 5"

I'm looking forward to the further improvement on pop growth, as you see, modifying the parameter can't solve the hole problem.

 

[DC E1G]

This all looks like a really positive and heading in the right direction. Looking forward to it.

I do think Paradox might come to regret adding the ability to turn off the growth modifiers in the settings. Creating an "opt-out" of the new mechanics is going to create a subset of players who are essentially playing a different "mode" of Stellaris to everyone else - a mode that will become more and more unbalanced/broken with every balance change to the "real" game. I wonder if "so in the meantime we're currently adding a quality of life feature that many people have been asking for" means those settings are just for the Beta and won't be rolled out to the proper release?

I definitely read it as being temporary. It has the added benefit of them being able to get information on what players are choosing to use as well as giving people the option to play around and see how it feels without having to use mods.

I would be very surprised if such a slider went to live, because it would be a complete abdication of trying to balance the game.

I'm really happy they're going to use a rolling beta style system here. I think it's the best way to tackle complicated problems like pop growth and economy balance, since they have an army of play testers providing feedback and real world play that way.

 

[Olterin]

Planetary logistic growth does not reduce pop counts at all. Planetary logistic growth dramatically increases pop counts.

... dramatically increases pop counts in the early- and mid-game, you mean? Because as I recall from 2.8, every planet ended up filled to the brim, and logistic growth can't do worse than that.

 

[Alfray Stryke]

To answer a handful of questions that have been asked:

• Patch notes for the bug fixes the latest beta will include should come out alongside when the beta updates.
• The update to the beta will come Soon™, but I can't say when!
• Logistic Growth Ceiling = How much extra growth you gain from the population of the planet. (Currently capped at +3 in the open beta.)
• Growth Required Scaling = How much the growth (or assembly) increases by per Pop you have in your empire. (Currently 0.25x in the open beta.)

 

[Cassilda]

Since pop growth is getting its sliders, it's possible to have a optional rule for adding habitats or not when starting a game?

 

[Eladrin]

Can you quickly describe what "Logistic Growth Ceiling" is?

The a planet's pop growth for being in the middle of the curve is. If it's set to 1.5, they get a 50% bonus.

Is there any way to remove Logistic growth entirely?

Setting the Logistic Growth Ceiling will remove the bonus, but it does still leave the downward curve when the planet is almost full. You could disable it entirely by setting the ceiling to 1, and using a mod that changes LOGISTIC_POP_GROWTH_FLOOR in defines to 1.

Hm, did not expect those pop growth sliders - I wonder how far they go?

Ceiling goes from x1 (no bonuses) to x2 (double growth).

Empire Pop Growth Scale goes from +0 to +1.

 

[kgptzac]

No. This is acknowledging the fact that infinite pops kills performance, but that some players will ignore this reality and instead nag about performance improvements that cannot be made.

Now you have control, and those players can finally shut up.

Performance improvement can and should always be improved so players are given larger amount of pops to play with before the same level of performance degradation. I find it quite odd for a modder to be this defeatist and declare the base game cannot be fundamentally improved.

 

[Alech]

I agree. I didn't say otherwise.

I know, but saying the slider should stop discussion on the mechanic can easily be understood to imply no further debate of said mechanic is needed. Not saying that's what you meant tho.

 

[Amorenkaire]

Once again, I am kindly asking for a define to turn off the housing component of Logistic growth, but keeping the growth from Planet Pops!

Or just a separate growth_per_organic_pop.

Please? D:

 

[DrNukeLear]

The a planet's pop growth for being in the middle of the curve is. If it's set to 1.5, they get a 50% bonus.


Setting the Logistic Growth Ceiling will remove the bonus, but it does still leave the downward curve when the planet is almost full. You could disable it entirely by setting the ceiling to 1, and using a mod that changes LOGISTIC_POP_GROWTH_FLOOR in defines to 1.


Ceiling goes from x1 (no bonuses) to x2 (double growth).

Empire Pop Growth Scale goes from +0 to +1.

Thank you! Much appreciated. I forgot to say Enjoy the Holiday/Break! All the best.

 

[finifef]

Good changes but still, late game habitats and ring worlds are so difficult to fill because of empire pop penalty. Maybe you should add something like immigration bonuses and extra replicator job to megastructures.

Edit: And maybe increase the occupation cost of a planet? Resistance and stuff. After the empire pop penalty, it is so much better to attack and conquer others planets to gain more pops and it is so easy to stabilize the planet you conquered and make it yours completely.

 

[CrimsonBison]

I could see how sliders might make it difficult to get uniform, helpful feedback, as they increase the variables between games, particularly in areas that the devs are trying to improve. Devs, are you going to have a new way of getting helpful feedback (e.g. make commenters list their slider details) or do you plan on doing something else to gauge overall opinions, such as developing changes and removing sliders with a future update?

 

[John MacWhat]

To answer a handful of questions that have been asked:

• Patch notes for the bug fixes the latest beta will include should come out alongside when the beta updates.
• The update to the beta will come Soon™, but I can't say when!
• Logistic Growth Ceiling = How much extra growth you gain from the population of the planet. (Currently capped at +3 in the open beta.)
• Growth Required Scaling = How much the growth (or assembly) increases by per Pop you have in your empire. (Currently 0.25x in the open beta.)

Will the current version of the Beta remain available (I ask mainly because I want to finish a game, I look forward to the new changes)

 

[Mindel]

We're making some updates that will have significant changes to AI behavior that should improve the effectiveness of AI opponents,

Have you fixed the reported AI issues of Unbidden never actually killing off empires, even after holding military supremacy across the galaxy for centuries?

 

[Alfray Stryke]

Will the current version of the Beta remain available (I ask mainly because I want to finish a game, I look forward to the new changes)

The updated beta build will be on the same Steam branch as the current beta, unfortunately.

 

[HugsAndSnuggles]

Regarding the economic changes, one of the common themes in the feedback has been that the sheer number of jobs in the game are too high, and we agree.

Then reduce it? What's the problem?
Bonus points for making pops less important for resource acquisition - which is kind of the reason for people always trying to get more pops and maximizing growth.

Clerks are especially notorious for this, since in many cases you would rather actually see them unemployed and moving to a more valuable position elsewhere in the empire.

And you know why clerks are so "notorious", especially now? Because now (even as agrarian idyll) you are forced to build cities in order to open up building slots. Not to mention, carrying capacity that affects pop growth, forcing you to have certain pop/capacity ratio to maximize it. This results in increased amount of clerk jobs; has nothing to do with commerce zones providing such a "huge" amount of clerk positions "begging" to be filled (who builds those things anyway, outside of resort worlds?).

We're taking some preliminary steps to reduce the number of jobs and changing things to focus on increasing productivity instead.

Why you you have to increase productivity? Fairly sure that there was a notion that pacing is to fast for default rules? By increasing productivity along with reducing amount of jobs you are not moving in that direction at all.

Logistic Growth and Growth Required Sliders in Galaxy Configuration

So, you kind of giving up on properly balancing it? Oh well, looking forward for ability to disable the whole thing (provided I understood what it does).

 

[Gavinn]

Not turning off every clerk job will still be bad, but it will be slightly less bad now.

 

[ezno]

Is any rework of the productivity tech planned? I mean for this problem

Stellaris - Productivity Tech Bonus is additive rather then multiplicative

Description Productivity Tech Bonus is additive rather then multiplicative Game Version 3.0.1 [c04b] What version do you use? Steam What expansions do you have installed? Do you have mods enabled? No Please explain your issue...

forum.paradoxplaza.com

 

[VeryOldGrandpa]

The more freedom the player has the better, love the sliders

gj devs

 

[Teodosio7]

Decreasing the number of jobs, finally! A step in the right direction.