Stellaris Dev Diary #211: 3.0.3 Beta Updates

Hi everyone!

Thanks for the tremendous participation within the 3.0.3 beta branch and for all of the feedback that you've been providing.

For those that are interested in joining the beta, you have to manually opt in to access it. Go to your Steam library, right click on Stellaris -> Properties -> betas tab -> select "stellaris_test" branch.

This week we'll be talking about some more changes that we're planning on pushing in the near future to the 3.0.3 beta branch concerning further balance updates, AI, and more. These are highlights of some of the things that will be in the full patch notes and not intended to be a comprehensive list.

Bug Fixes and Further Balance Updates

From fixes to the end of the Cybrex precursor chain to correcting edict deactivation costs, we've fixed a number of issues that you've found and reported during the beta. Thank you for reporting things in the Bug Reports forum.

Regarding the economic changes, one of the common themes in the feedback has been that the sheer number of jobs in the game are too high, and we agree. Clerks are especially notorious for this, since in many cases you would rather actually see them unemployed and moving to a more valuable position elsewhere in the empire. We're taking some preliminary steps to reduce the number of jobs and changing things to focus on increasing productivity instead.

Here are some of the changes you'll be seeing soon:
  • [Balance] Reduced the number of Clerk jobs provided by buildings and districts by 40%.
  • [Balance] Clerk trade value has been increased to 4.
1620222575947.png

  • [Balance] Buildings that increased basic resource production and added jobs to basic resource producing buildings or districts (Energy Grids, Mineral Purification Plants, etc.) now increase the base production of the relevant jobs by 1 or 2 based on tier instead of their previous modifiers. Machine empires still gain the extra resource district slots as before.

1620221727568.png


Yes, "Livestock" counts as a "Food producing job". (Or minerals, for Lithoids.)
  • [Balance] Manufacturing focus buildings (factories and foundries) no longer prevent the other from being built on non-Ecumenopolis planets, and no longer add jobs to Industrial Districts. They instead increase the base production of alloy or consumer goods producing jobs by 1 or 2, with a corresponding increase in upkeep.
1620222368228.png

Secondary resources like Alloys do require more inputs to produce more, however.


Balancing the number of jobs and their output will be an ongoing task, expect future updates to have additional changes.

AI Updates

We're making some updates that will have significant changes to AI behavior that should improve the effectiveness of AI opponents, as well as some changes to reduce the impact to your empire if an AI were to take control of your empire for a short duration in multiplayer.

These changes give the AI a greater focus on economic stability and improves some research related behaviors, but are also a work in progress and will continue to be updated in future patches.

We'll put up a 3.0.3 AI Feedback thread once it's live so you can let us know how you feel about these changes.

Population Growth

We're continuing to make adjustments to the current population growth systems in the game, and are exploring additional changes. Some of these are longer term initiatives, however, so in the meantime we're currently adding a quality of life feature that many people have been asking for.

1620222442422.png

Logistic Growth and Growth Required Sliders in Galaxy Configuration

These sliders will allow you to adjust the variables related to the bonus a planet can provide through logistic growth and the amount that pop growth increases per empire pop using sliders in Galaxy Configuration instead of needing to edit defines or use a mod to do so. Please note that these sliders can have major impacts on both performance and balance. Existing saves will use the default values. (Which can themselves be overridden in defines.)

Non-English localization for these changes will not be available in the beta as soon as the changes are up, but will be added shortly afterward. Apologies for the delay!

That's all for this week. Since we're currently in a post-release cadence (as well as next Thursday being a holiday in Sweden), the next Dev Diary will be two weeks from now on the 20th of May.

See you then!
 
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Magnificate

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Excellent changes with the Clerks and the buildings!

As for jobs that need balancing, would you mind taking a look at Nobles? I enjoy the noble civic very much on the conceptual level, but I can't justify myself taking it due to mechanics.

Perhaps some of the civics could also use some rebalancing as the beta continues? Perhaps make Meritocracy weaker by splitting the Specialist +10% bonus into Specialists +5% and Rulers +5%? Perhaps buff Philosopher King by giving it a slight bonus to Influence production? Perhaps stop with the silly 75% Shadow Council cost reduction and make influencing elections free? Or decrease the bonus to 50% but make it apply to Galactic Community favours interactions as well as elections?
 
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Except that this makes clear that the artificial pop limitation is here to stay. If they wanted to get rid of it, they'd have done it.

Introducing a slider is likely the death knell for any meaningful revision of the concept, since now all criticism can simply be waived by pointing out that the system is optional.

From where I stand, this dev diary is strictly bad news for anyone hoping for a different approach to economic balance.
From the dev diary: "We're continuing to make adjustments to the current population growth systems in the game, and are exploring additional changes. Some of these are longer term initiatives, however, so in the meantime we're currently adding a quality of life feature that many people have been asking for."

If I'm not mistaken, this means that more radical solutions than tweaking numbers are being explored, but nowhere near testable. This is good news, not bad! Saves a bit of tedium of tweaking those values via modding ... provided those sliders go far enough, of course.
 
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Except that this makes clear that the artificial pop limitation is here to stay. If they wanted to get rid of it, they'd have done it.

Introducing a slider is likely the death knell for any meaningful revision of the concept, since now all criticism can simply be waived by pointing out that the system is optional.

From where I stand, this dev diary is strictly bad news for anyone hoping for a different approach to economic balance.
No. This is acknowledging the fact that infinite pops kills performance, but that some players will ignore this reality and instead nag about performance improvements that cannot be made.

Now you have control, and those players can finally shut up.
 
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Ninking

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Looking good, but I feel like the text for the new slider is quite unspecific. Would a factor of 1.0 be the default vanilla value, for example? And would a factor of 0 mean that there's instant growth..?

"Growth Required Scaling: This controls how much growth is required for each pop in the empire. The higher it is, the slower pops will grow"
 
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I'm really loving those Clerk changes. Going from 2 to 4 trade value makes them a lot more viable than before. Looking forward to testing them out!
Multiplying 0 with something still stays 0. Clerk viability is exactly 0. Always has been.

This comment made me laugh.

Seriously, how could anyone think Clerks are better now? The devs just buffed starting ressource output for Minerals by 1/4 and Energy/Food ressource output by 1/6. And ontop of that you are getting all your % bonuses. And you will be getting them even earlier since you need less pops for your Capital buildings.

Please, do the math.
 
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But can we have it that Charismatic Pops don't flock to become Clerks when there are other jobs available?
 
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If I'm not mistaken, this means that more radical solutions than tweaking numbers are being explored, but nowhere near testable. This is good news, not bad! Saves a bit of tedium of tweaking those values via modding ... provided those sliders go far enough, of course.

"Adjustments" and "additional changes" does not at all sound like they're considering removing any of the new mechanics in favour of an alternative approach.

This is of course a question of your personal assessment of the development team. But it seems clear to me that the more time is spend adjusting the rest of the economy to the new growth (as they continue to do), the less likely any major change gets.

Now you have control, and those players can finally shut up.

Because shutting down discussion is always great for quality.
 
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If anything, I'd like to see planetary and empire-wide curves being separate settings on the game start. Being able to turn off completely illogical empire-wide malus and tune up planetary one will be perfect and very desirable solution for a lot of people.
That's... what this update does. You can turn it off by setting the modifier to 0 in the screenshot. And tune the planetary curve.

Also, the "completely illogical empire-wide malus" is already atop a completely illogical growth bonus you get from every new planet you colonize. The whole system is completely illogical, what matters more is how it plays.
What track would that be? More planets and more income?
Fixing how bad clerks are, improving the economic AI, and letting people adjust the empire-wide malus to acount for things like galaxy size, etc...

Baby steps to be sure, but at least in the right direction. At this point though the system needs more than band aids, but I'll take them over nothing.
Except that this makes clear that the artificial pop limitation is here to stay. If they wanted to get rid of it, they'd have done it.

Introducing a slider is likely the death knell for any meaningful revision of the concept, since now all criticism can simply be waived by pointing out that the system is optional.

From where I stand, this dev diary is strictly bad news for anyone hoping for a different approach to economic balance.
From the looks of the screenshot you can set it to 0.
 
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Just to make sure I understand what I am reading.

Logistic Growth Ceiling is the pop threshold when growth points needed per pop starts to increase.
Growth Required Scaling is how much the increase to growth points needed per pop is when going over the previously mentioned Logistic Growth Ceiling.

Correct?
 
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Aww, rest in pepperoni good old "build me to solve your unemployment problems" trade center.

It still give more job then every others buildings and now they are actually ok at producing consumer good at all species rights level, as even wasteful species clerk under utopian abundance are at least cutting even with the job now.
 
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Just to make sure I understand what I am reading.

Logistic Growth Ceiling is the pop threshold when growth points needed per pop starts to increase.
Growth Required Scaling is how much the increase to growth points needed per pop is when going over the previously mentioned Logistic Growth Ceiling.

Correct?
I *think* logistics growth ceiling is how much being in the middle of the curve can buff (base)growth. And Growth required scaling is how much more growth you need per already existing pop to grow/assemble? a new one
 
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Just to make sure I understand what I am reading.

Logistic Growth Ceiling is the pop threshold when growth points needed per pop starts to increase.
Growth Required Scaling is how much the increase to growth points needed per pop is when going over the previously mentioned Logistic Growth Ceiling.

Correct?
Logistic growth ceiling is how big your bonus to pop growth points per month from the per-planet pops vs. capacity calculation is allowed to be.

Growth Required Scaling is how much every pop you own increases the empire-wide modifier to the number of pop growth points needed to spawn a new pop.
 
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Just to make sure I understand what I am reading.

Logistic Growth Ceiling is the pop threshold when growth points needed per pop starts to increase.
Growth Required Scaling is how much the increase to growth points needed per pop is when going over the previously mentioned Logistic Growth Ceiling.

Correct?

Probably not.

Logistic growth refers to the planetary growth changes where if the capacity is high enough and your population is at about half capacity, you get a+3 growth bonus which sort-of falls off as pop rises towards capacity. So the ceiling probably refers to the max bonus.

Growth required scaling refers to the empire-wide malus. It controls how much each pop contributes to the next pop growth threshold.
 

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  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Shadowrun: Hong Kong
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • BATTLETECH
  • BATTLETECH - Beta Backer
  • BATTLETECH - Backer
  • BATTLETECH: Season pass
  • BATTLETECH: Flashpoint
  • Surviving Mars
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife Pre-Order
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Cities: Skylines - Campus
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
...Because shutting down discussion is always great for quality.

Nagging for performance improvements that can't be had isn't discussion. It's just nagging.
 
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