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Stellaris Dev Diary #21 - Administrative Sectors

Hi again folks!

Today I am going to talk about one of the great pitfalls of strategy game design; dull micromanagement. That is, features which require too much player attention. The trick, of course, is determining how much is “too much”, but it’s useful to consider how central the feature is to the core gameplay, how well it scales between small and large states, and how repetitive it gets with time.

In Stellaris, one feature which risked causing bad micromanagement was the planetary tile system; assigning Pops to tiles and deciding which buildings should go where. It is a fairly central feature and it is fun to use… but if you had to worry about 20, 50 or more planets, it would scale poorly. The obvious solution to this type of scaling issue is automation; you can let the AI handle it for you. This is indeed what we did in Stellaris, but not in a “traditional” fashion... Instead, we opted for something a little bit more akin to the vassals in Crusader Kings through something we call Administrative Sectors.

stellaris_dev_diary_21_02_20160215_edit_sectors.jpg


A Sector is an administrative region under the control of a Sector Governor. You can control a few planets directly (your “core worlds”), but once you go past the limit, you will start suffering penalties to your Influence as well as Empire-wide income. The exact limit for how many planets you can control directly depends on various factors, like your government type and technologies, but, as with the “Demesne Limit” in Crusader Kings II, it will never be a huge number. At this point, it is best to start dividing your territory into Sectors. You can decide the Sector capital and which planets should belong to it (but they must all be connected to the capital, i.e. form one cohesive sub-region.) You are also allowed to name your Sectors, for fun.

Unlike proper Vassals, Sectors remain an integrated part of your Empire, but they will handle development of planets and the construction of mining stations within their region for you. You can give them a focus (Industry, Research, etc), an infusion of Minerals or Energy Credits to help them along, and decide if you want to tax them for Minerals and Energy Credits. Sectors do not possess any military fleets of their own, nor do they perform research (they have access to the same technologies you do, and their research output is all given to you.)

stellaris_dev_diary_21_01_20160215_sectors_list.jpg


While Sectors and Sector Governors cannot demand more autonomy, or directly rise up in revolt (things I’d love to explore in an expansion), over time their population tends to diverge ideologically from that of the regime, and create their own identity. Like-minded Pops will tend to migrate there if allowed to. In the same way, aliens of the same species will also tend to coalesce in the same Sectors. Thus, when Factions form, they will often tend to have their main seat of power in a specific Sector. And Factions can demand autonomy and achieve independence. However, this is something that warrants its own dev diary...

That’s all he wrote folks. This time. Next week, I plan to talk about Alliances and Federations!
 
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grandad1982

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So it seems to me that the people who are not so into this dd would rather the game was made for what they want rather than what the devs want. Whilst listening to your audience is important the devs should stick to their vision because everyone has they're own idea about what the game should be and how it should work. If the devs did try to accommodate everyone's idea of the game it would end as a mess and not satisfy anyone.

As for adding an option to enable of disable the sector mechanic that would lead to the game requiring a different balance to how the devs want it and would add time and money to the process to implement and get right.

Any way this is a real time grand strategy game and there is loads to do offer than microing planets so your'll all have plenty to do I'm sure!
 
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granddad: They likely are shaping the sectors according to their test players. I find it very likely that many test players were a bit exasperated when they had to select what the POPs of lowly populated outer rim planet #21 were supposed to do: Make more power or demolish slums, when they were despreately fighting the Malicious Monkey Men of the Melkior Meritocracy.

It's the same reason CK2 works the way it does, the leaders could not manage an unlimited demesne and you can't just say you must have the ability to manage everything without ruining your nation. It's the same reason why even nation states today have to limit whatever constitutes the capital area to a small part of the country, unless the country itself is small and unitary, and even then you need at least one subdivision to take care of local matters.
 
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Surprised nobody has asked for clarification on these icons from the sector list.
stell_icons.jpg

Given that the first image shows the sector to be quite large, (13 stars) my first thought was that these are maybe the number of planets? 2 Gas Giants, 38 rocky planets and two that are inhabited (the second image seems to show only two planets in the sector breakdown).
However that second image also has the middle symbol there by both of those planets in the sector assigned values of 21 and 17 (total 38).
So do those icons maybe mean that the sector has two player controlled planets in it (the first symbol) and between them they have 38 of whatever that is, and the highest population is 2?
 

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Surprised nobody has asked for clarification on these icons from the sector list.
View attachment 158918
Given that the first image shows the sector to be quite large, (13 stars) my first thought was that these are maybe the number of planets? 2 Gas Giants, 38 rocky planets and two that are inhabited (the second image seems to show only two planets in the sector breakdown).
However that second image also has the middle symbol there by both of those planets in the sector assigned values of 21 and 17 (total 38).
So do those icons maybe mean that the sector has two player controlled planets in it (the first symbol) and between them they have 38 of whatever that is, and the highest population is 2?

Going by the screenshot, I think I see a space station in the lower screenshot that is not orbiting the populated planet. My guess is [Inhabited Planets] - [Tiles in Inhabited Plents] - [Space Stations]. The aliens with "2" below mean the pop of these two planets is both 2. "Tiles" because it looks kind of like continents on a planet, I guess, and it makes sense that the number of each planet that is populated is added together... The numbers also seem about right.

Overall, it is probably a early large, but underdeveloped sector.

Edit: Changed my mind on the second orange icon.
 
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ParagonExile

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Going by the screenshot, I think I see a space station in the lower screenshot that is not orbiting the populated planet. My guess is [Inhabited Planets] - [Tiles in Inhabited Plents] - [Space Stations]. The aliens with "2" below mean the pop of these two planets is both 2. "Tiles" because it looks kind of like continents on a planet, I guess, and it makes sense that the number of each planet that is populated is added together... The numbers also seem about right.

Overall, it is probably a early large, but underdeveloped sector.

Edit: Changed my mind on the second orange icon.

I think the blue icon is a pop unit.
 

ImperiusArch

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The Earthlike icon is the icon for planets, this is shown in the 9th diary. I'm still in a bit of a bind, because of the fact that the same terran icon appears when a science vessel is exploring a newly discovered solar system, it seems to be used as a resource, even whilst there's a section at the top of the HUD/Interface that easily shows how many planets there are in the system (1/4) Diary 7.

After a bit of zooming through the diaries I noticed multiple planets had different "terran values" or the earth-like logo. I'd argue this logo represents the value of the planet, which then will count towards the value of the colonized system. I think this will play a role in military conquests, since you only have 100 points to play around with you'll be spending these points on planets who's value is shown by their "terran value".

The person, as we both agree, probably represents the amount of populated planets in the sector. I'd argue that the gas giant looking icon represents the amount of star systems in the sector, but that is just wild speculations.
 
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Tiles seems right for the brown icon. Why they think that's so important it deserves such a prominent place, I dunno.
 
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But the two planets each have an Alian creature with "2" below it, meaning the total pop should be 4?

My argument exactly, hence why I believe it might be the total amount of populated planets in the sector :)
 
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I also believe the gas giant-esque logo represents the amount of star systems is becasue the names of the different planets; they're obviously not in the same solar system. Since there's two different names on the habited planets, and the number "2" represented under the logo, that's what I'm basing it on.
 
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ImperiusArch: The gas giant can't be the number of star system alone, though, we can see more star systems than the numbers indicate! Do you mean populated star systems?
 

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ImperiusArch: The gas giant can't be the number of star system alone, though, we can see more star systems than the numbers indicate! Do you mean populated star systems?

Your latter suggestion is the most likely solution, since the game date is the same in both pictures.
 

RickInVA

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Mainly spend looking at the map and the pretty rendering of planets rotating, maybe occasionally do things like
-exploring
-colonising
-surveying anomalies
-react to sudden events
-researching tech
-keeping population happy
-keep up diplomatic relationships
-design ships
-trade
-plan invasion fleets
-wage war
-ponder different strategies for galaxy domination
-form alliances
-micromanage my sectors
-do whatever else a paradox game can offer.

So none of those things is "tedious micro management" but choosing what to build on your planets is?

Designing ships isn't micromanagement that players do because they feel that they can do better than the AI?

You don't mind moving hundreds of ships around manually, that is fine, but having to make a decision every so often about a planet is evil micro management?

You are free to like what you like, but at least be honest that all of those things you mention are micro management. You just like those. I like all of it.
 
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Brian Bóroimhe

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I also believe the gas giant-esque logo represents the amount of star systems is becasue the names of the different planets; they're obviously not in the same solar system. Since there's two different names on the habited planets, and the number "2" represented under the logo, that's what I'm basing it on.
Maybe it's populated systems. The middle icon workable tiles and the last icon populated worlds (as this could be a different number to that of populated systems).

I wasn't sure about the tiles as I thought I had read something about planets having max 20 tiles, but looking back at DD9 what they said was,

Each habitable planet has a number of tiles on its surface, representing the planet’s size

There presumably is somewhat of a correlation between that being larger and the planet being worth more to you. More building and population slots.
 

ImperiusArch

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Not so sure about this tile argument, I feel it makes more sense to follow my "planet's value" argument in retrospect to the fact that in war nations will have upwards towards 100 points to bargain with.
 

Yenzen

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That's not usually how it works in paradox games though. The warscore needed to achieve anything is *relative* to the entire side and at the same time relative to the individual nation if you negotiate with them separately, and it is never displayed externally, but only in a war screen where you can see what your current occupations amount to. At the same time we've seen plenty of tiles of planets and the norm seems to be 12-20.
 
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ImperiusArch

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That's not usually how it works in paradox games though. The warscore needed to achieve anything is *relative* to the entire side and at the same time relative to the individual nation if you negotiate with them separately, and it is never displayed externally, but only in a war screen where you can see what your current occupations amount to. At the same time we've seen plenty of tiles of planets and the norm seems to be 12-20.

You do have a point there, my friend. Ah, it might just be something that we'll have to wait to unravel. Granted, it might as well be tiles. It's just my personal idea that it isn't, really.
 

Zyrious

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I think people are beginning to or need to come to the conclusion that this isn't a 4x, it's a Grand Strategy Game. Nobody tried to confuse the issue when EU come out, but now EU space comes out and oh it must be a 4x because every space game ever has been a 4x. Thankfully, not this time. 4x is a very old and rigid methodology that is pretty outdated at this point and is the reason many of us are here. We didn't come to paradox games because we were fans of the tired Colony Rush, Colony Build up, Optimal Research for goal victory, and War with all who interfere with arbitrary victory conditions( or because of arbitrary victory conditions).

In that line of thought, Sectors make sense. As stated these sectors lay the foundation for other mechanics as well, like factions, revolts, and anything future DLC may bring. PDX GSG's aren't about building your colonies optimally while you wait for your next war or for your Tech Victory research to finish, you have to focus on your internal politics, your pops(including issues like ideology disagreement, pop evolution and immigration of other races), your diplomacy with other races (even more so if you're a member of a federation) etc. etc., PDX games are more involved at the high end level so it's not necessary to keep you busy on the low end level with tedium. It's also realistic, you may oversee the construction of a new capitol building in D.C. but you really don't care if Portland, OR subsidizes a new Basketball Arena or adds *another* layer of freeway's because people aren't confused enough.

One poster earlier said that really one of the main things to *do* in 4x games other than war was building up your cities/colonies. Well, he's right, and that's the issue with 4x games. Almost all 4x games with few exceptions have very little in the way of diplomatic action, internal politics, or high end management. "Internal Politics" is usually just a modifier based on whether you remembered to add the entertainment district on your colony or if you pumped up taxes for war. War is simple - Total War, win or lose. The only thing 4x games usually do reasonably well on is Research, but because of everything else being simple that usually boils down to "Which victory type are you going for - Tech, Domination, or Cultural? Choose accordingly".

I'm sure that in PDX fashion, Stellaris has plenty of high end things for us to micro so that making sure the entertainment districts are properly built on the northern continent of New Z'karg isn't on the priority list.
 
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