• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

Stellaris Dev Diary #206: Directing Nemesis

Hello everyone!

Today I thought I would talk more about the process of directing an expansion such as Nemesis.

As we’ve talked about in the past, finding a strong theme is one of the most important things that we do. Whenever we’ve had ideas (and there are many) we usually categorize them in a “box”. Each of our expansions has picked features from different “boxes”; Utopia was about internal politics and customization, Apocalypse was about warfare, Megacorp was about economy, and Federations was about diplomacy.

Along the way there’s usually more ideas in a box than we can fit into an expansion, so many of the ideas we’ve had for previous expansions get moved to a new expansion. For example, the “diplomacy box” contained too many good ideas that we wanted to work with, so Federations focused more on “good” diplomacy, whereas Nemesis focuses more on “evil” diplomacy.

Maintaining a strong theme for an expansion is very important, as it makes it easier for the players to forge strong fantasies and to build up excitement for those ideas. A more focused expansion also has more opportunities for features to interact, so it's also possible to have those deeper interactions in the game that we know many of you appreciate.

Although it is important to maintain a strong theme for a DLC, we also want to make sure that any expansion we create also contains something that caters to different types of players. For example, if Federations has a lot of focus on cooperation and diplomacy, it was a good idea to add the Juggernaut so that players who enjoy the more belligerent side of the game also get some new toys to play with.

Nemesis
Becoming the Crisis, and forming a Galactic Imperium through the Galactic Community, are both examples of ideas we had that were related to diplomacy is some fashion. With the Galactic Community in place, it made sense to allow players to play “the baddies” which aims to destroy the galaxy, and by continuation it made a lot of sense to add a feature that aims to be the counterforce to such threats.

Where Federations focused on cooperation and more friendly diplomacy, the goal of Nemesis was to focus more on building up conflicts between opposing forces. We really wanted to underline how a crisis can threaten the galaxy, and then a champion (the custodian) can rise to attempt to stop it.

We also wanted to create more opportunities for a balance of power to shift, so we wanted to continue with the idea of the custodian and how power can corrupt. By allowing the custodian to turn the galactic community into the galactic imperium, we were able to continue the trend of different types of crises that can occur in the galaxy. Although not perhaps a threat to all life in the galaxy, the Galactic Imperium (and a possible rebellion) was still intended to very much be considered a diplomatic crisis of sorts.

From my perspective I’m very happy with how we’ve managed to take these ideas from earlier and really bind them together in a very thematic sense in Nemesis. It’s not often that we can take so many powerful fantasies and put them together in such a way, so it's very fun to have been able to take this holistic approach.

Espionage
I’ve wanted to make an espionage system for quite some time, as it's been a goal for me as a designer. I don’t like when espionage systems are too deterministic, or when you just sit and wait on a progress bar, after which you’ll either succeed or fail.

I wanted our espionage system to contain more storytelling and the archaeology system that I originally designed for Ancient Relics really allows for that. I like that the system plays out in phases, similar to a siege in EU4, but allows for a lot more storytelling by inserting random events and stories in the “main story” of the content itself.

With the learnings from the archaeology system, I wanted to make our espionage system work similarly. As a game director, I’m not only responsible for the creation vision of the game, but also for scope (how large a feature can be, and where we spend our development time). I knew that by basing the system on what we did with archaeology, we would be able to save time that could be better spent elsewhere. Implementing UI is actually quite time consuming with the tech Stellaris uses, so any time we can save by not having to make UIs from scratch is a good idea in my opinion. By reusing certain parts, you can also reduce the amount of risk because we already have a pretty good idea of what to expect from the system or feature. Any time we spend reusing parts can be spent on polish, bug fixing or implementing cool new UIs for other features. It doesn’t come entirely free though, and you need to make sure you make enough adaptations where it's needed.

When it comes to what the espionage system itself should achieve, I wanted information gathering to be a large part of it. Espionage systems are hard to get right, because they can feel too predictive or boring, and you also have to constantly be considering the experience of the one being targeted by espionage.

Something we also have to consider when adding a new system like this is that the player only has so much capacity to interact with existing systems. We need to create a system that is fun and engaging when you choose to use it, and be aware that it's quite risky to add new systems that the player is forced to interact with. Cognitive load is definitely something that is tricky when designing for GSG games. I feel like the espionage system has hit a good mark with not being mandatory to play the game, but also being fun and interesting when you want to use it.

We couldn’t achieve everything I could have dreamed of, and although I would very much liked to have seen a more interactive counter-espionage part of the system, I’m very happy overall with how espionage turned out. Although not perfect, the content we have there and the way it works feels very good.

The basic system of espionage, just like the archaeology system, is a part of the free update to the base game, which makes it easier for us - or modders - to add more content later down the line. Trying to make the systems themselves a part of the free update has helped us a lot in the past, and sometimes we’ve even changed systems that were entirely a part of a DLC to become free. Ascension Perks (introduced in Utopia) were originally exclusive to Utopia, but we really wanted to use the system so we made it a part of the free game and changed it so that only some of the Ascension Perks themselves (like biological ascension) were a part of Utopia. We really like this approach, and hopefully you do too. Everyone wins!

Intel
Because we wanted information-gathering to be such an important part of the espionage system, we also thought a new Intel system would be necessary to make that a really good experience for the player.

I never liked how you’d find out so much about another alien empire as soon as you established communication with them. I wanted alien empires to feel more mysterious, and just as you explore the galaxy, you have to “explore” these alien empires to learn more about them.

The focus of the Intel system was very much to enhance the early- and mid game by focusing on this new angle of “exploration”. Even if you are not a warlike or diplomatic player, it should still be fun to learn more about the galaxy and its inhabitants. Because of all the things that the Intel system touches, and how it interacts with other features, it needs to be a free update to the game. The entire Intel system is a part of the free update and should be quite moddable.

From a scoping aspect, Intel definitely ended up being way more expensive than we had originally thought due to all the edgecases and all the small places in the game where the new system would interact with current existing features. Reworking UIs to sometimes hide information is not as easy as it may sound, especially in a game as large as Stellaris.

As a game director I also need to consider where I spend my development time, and if I put too much development time on working on a free feature like Intel, then the DLC features may become too thin and that players may consider the value of the DLC to be low. It’s a careful balance between adding enough new features in the free update vs. adding new features to a DLC, because both are important for different reasons.

In the end though, I think it was definitely worth spending the extra time to make the Intel system as it currently is.

Become the Crisis
The idea to allow players to become the crisis is not a new one, but it's one that has been with us for quite some time. It’s not until now that we’ve finally been able to give it a go, and I can’t think of a better expansion for it than with Nemesis.

The goal with the “BtC” feature was to allow the player to perform “evil” deeds and unlock more powerful rewards along the way to galactic domination.

The system went through a couple of different iterations, but it wasn’t until we added a more clear progression path with “crisis levels” that I felt like we were truly on the right track.

The new UI for BtC feels very awesome and with a very visible progression path it also feels better as a more explicit challenge. Within game design, explicit challenges are those that are posed directly to the player (like a quest), while implicit challenges are those that the player can make up themselves (like befriending all other empires as the Blorg).

An inherent weakness with many of our GSG games is that we do not have a lot of explicit challenges, which can make it hard for new players to figure out what they are supposed to do. If you are entirely new to the game, it can be hard to come up with implicit challenges yourself. National Focuses in HOI4, Missions in EU4 or Imperator are examples of features where we’ve successfully added more explicit challenges to our games. Implicit challenges go hand in hand with replayability, and they can also be more powerful experiences to the player, because the player is the sole reason behind it.

With the BtC feature, we’ve added objectives to help lead the player in becoming more menacing and an increasing threat to the galaxy. Although not as direct as perhaps a quest or a mission, they should help a lot and hopefully motivate the player.

We originally had ideas for the BtC feature to come in multiple shapes (ranging from a destructive force like an end-game crisis, to a subjugating force like the marauder, or a manipulative force that preys in the shadows), but due to time constraints we had to make the choice of either making one fantasy stronger and more engaging, or to have multiple versions that felt more watered-down. I had to make the choice, and focusing on the destructive fantasy made the most sense to me, due to multiple reasons, but simply put it's also the fantasy that makes the most sense.

After the dust has settled I’m very happy with where the Become the Crisis feature is, and I hope you will all enjoy deploying your Star-Eaters to consume the galaxy, going from one star to the next.

Custodian & Galactic Imperium
With the risk of sounding like a broken record, I want to highlight how much I enjoy the cycle of electing a custodian to fight a crisis, and then for the custodian to take power and become a new, diplomatic crisis. It’s very thematic, and it's a fantasy that we’re very aware of from popular culture (and to some degree, history).

I don’t have as many insights to share for these two features, as they were largely handled by one of our trusted and senior content designers. The idea and rough design for the Galactic Imperium was borne in association with the Galactic Community, and we’re very happy for the chance to add it to the game in Nemesis.

Although the Galactic Imperium is perhaps not the most ubiquitous and common feature to come across while playing, it's very evocative and fits like a glove when it comes to player fantasy.

Rounding up
In the end I don’t think you can ever really create a perfect expansion, and it takes a lot of experience to know what gives you the best chance with the resources you have. There’s a lot more detail that goes into all of the things I talked about, but I hope this dev diary was somewhat interesting to you, as I tried to give some more insights into how to direct an expansion and some of the thoughts one may come across while doing so.

I also want to thank my team for doing such fantastic work with Nemesis. Without them, none of this would have materialized.

----

That’s it for this week, folks! We’ll be back next week on April 1st, the day most famous for being exactly 2 weeks before the release of 3.0 ‘Dick’ and Nemesis.
 
  • 134Like
  • 33Love
  • 29
  • 4
  • 4
Reactions:

Verx90

General
46 Badges
Mar 22, 2014
1.808
1.295
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Sword of the Stars II
  • Magicka
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Prison Architect
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Surviving Mars: Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Age of Wonders: Shadow Magic
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Victoria 2
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Surviving Mars
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
I think it was written somewhere that AI empires can become the crisis, but they are less likely to do so if any other empire is doing that already.

first mod : all AI will pick the crisis ascension , remove requirement for picking the crisis ascension.

the GC :
meme.jpg
 
  • 11Haha
  • 1Like
Reactions:

The_F

Sergeant
34 Badges
May 13, 2016
81
71
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Tyranny - Tales from the Tiers
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Prison Architect
  • Cities: Skylines - Campus
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Tyranny - Bastards Wound
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Pillars of Eternity
Thank you and your team for the work you put into that expansion. "First Contact" in Stellaris was something that bothered me for years and I always hoped to see a rework someday. What you did with the intel system is way more than I could have expected.
 
  • 2
Reactions:

Oxo31000

Private
40 Badges
Apr 3, 2020
14
41
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Age of Wonders
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
Maybe one day we will have the good news that the devs are working on the main negative point of their game, namely the balancing.
When in multiplayer games, of any type, no matter the rules, players play exactly the same civs (especially slave guild / technocracy), that spiritualism is totally useless since X patch, that biological hive are completely unplayable since almost ever (except when they were released), and that 3/4 of civs are just basically useless ... maybe the real work is here.
When players pass the 4000 or 5000 hours mark, they expect to be able to diversify their gameplay.

I would like to see the devs play their own games.
 
  • 26
  • 4
  • 1
Reactions:

aveRAGEboii

Recruit
20 Badges
Nov 5, 2020
9
49
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Shadowrun: Hong Kong
  • Stellaris
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
Maybe one day we will have the good news that the devs are working on the main negative point of their game, namely the balancing.
When in multiplayer games, of any type, no matter the rules, players play exactly the same civs (especially slave guild / technocracy), that spiritualism is totally useless since X patch, that biological hive are completely unplayable since almost ever (except when they were released), and that 3/4 of civs are just basically useless ... maybe the real work is here.
When players pass the 4000 or 5000 hours mark, they expect to be able to diversify their gameplay.

I would like to see the devs play their own games.
Over-balancing games is just a common issue with games today and it makes them dull. Stellaris is not a competitive, ranked game and it doesn't need that much balancing. Yes, I would welcome some extra spice for hive-minds like forgotten queens mod or plantoids could get something too, but I would not say there are useless.
 
  • 35
  • 1Like
Reactions:

Verx90

General
46 Badges
Mar 22, 2014
1.808
1.295
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Sword of the Stars II
  • Magicka
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Prison Architect
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Surviving Mars: Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Age of Wonders: Shadow Magic
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Victoria 2
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Surviving Mars
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
Maybe one day we will have the good news that the devs are working on the main negative point of their game, namely the balancing.
When in multiplayer games, of any type, no matter the rules, players play exactly the same civs (especially slave guild / technocracy), that spiritualism is totally useless since X patch, that biological hive are completely unplayable since almost ever (except when they were released), and that 3/4 of civs are just basically useless ... maybe the real work is here.
When players pass the 4000 or 5000 hours mark, they expect to be able to diversify their gameplay.

I would like to see the devs play their own games.
i'd like to say much more... but :
all multiplayer game have a meta , that change at almost all patch .

having a meta doesn't mean the game is unbalanced , it means that there are things that work better\ are more easy , if you use specific pre-sets .

and there is to add that stellaris is not a competitive game by base ( the Random Generated Map was kinda balanced in some ways, but it can't be balanced for the very nature of the game) so the idea of having a balanced PVP experience is a dream in a dream .

the game can still be play as you wish to play it , ignoring the meta , but you will need to come up with a efficent system that someone else didn't already build on the patch , or you will probably have difficulties that other players will not have , giving them an advantage.

usualy , all those problems are fixed by internal server rules .

if you want a competitive experience , you should realy well accept to have evryone play the same thing, in order to showcase your skill ( but the random form of the galaxy will still give advantage-disadvantage to some)
 
  • 7Like
  • 5
Reactions:

Oxo31000

Private
40 Badges
Apr 3, 2020
14
41
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Age of Wonders
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
i'd like to say much more... but :
all multiplayer game have a meta , that change at almost all patch .

having a meta doesn't mean the game is unbalanced , it means that there are things that work better\ are more easy , if you use specific pre-sets .

and there is to add that stellaris is not a competitive game by base ( the Random Generated Map was kinda balanced in some ways, but it can't be balanced for the very nature of the game) so the idea of having a balanced PVP experience is a dream in a dream .

the game can still be play as you wish to play it , ignoring the meta , but you will need to come up with a efficent system that someone else didn't already build on the patch , or you will probably have difficulties that other players will not have , giving them an advantage.

usualy , all those problems are fixed by internal server rules .

if you want a competitive experience , you should realy well accept to have evryone play the same thing, in order to showcase your skill ( but the random form of the galaxy will still give advantage-disadvantage to some)
Of course I can't disagree with you completely, and of course we play by our own rules to make things more balanced.
And yes the random cards create imbalances, so why add more?

The problem is still the same, currently there is no interest to play a hive, no interest to play spiritualist, no interest to play xenophile, no interest to play egalitarian, except by pure RP.
And we don't only play RP based games, it's actually quite rare.

It would be enough to add simple things to make all this more coherent.

It would be enough to work hand in hand with some players of the community to achieve something efficient.
 
  • 2
  • 1
Reactions:

Verx90

General
46 Badges
Mar 22, 2014
1.808
1.295
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Sword of the Stars II
  • Magicka
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Prison Architect
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Surviving Mars: Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Age of Wonders: Shadow Magic
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Victoria 2
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Surviving Mars
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
Of course I can't disagree with you completely, and of course we play by our own rules to make things more balanced.
And yes the random cards create imbalances, so why add more?

The problem is still the same, currently there is no interest to play a hive, no interest to play spiritualist, no interest to play xenophile, no interest to play egalitarian, except by pure RP.
And we don't only play RP based games, it's actually quite rare.

It would be enough to add simple things to make all this more coherent


mhh... i'd like to add a counter-argument .

a PVP based game extremly competitive , for example ...

Starcraft : the META change at most patch , but the game is litteraly played the same way over and over, so much so, theyr build is not only based on what to do, but the TIME you need to make it . there are different races ( 3 ) but they play all the same way in theyr rispective matchup . and even on Starcraft there is a constant war of ppl talking about umbalancing .



League of Legends : there is a META that change at most patch , the game is played over and over again, and apart for when you want to have fun ( comparable of playing RP) some champs can't be used in a competitive way because they are too weak - hard . there is ALWAYS a COSTANT talk about balancing .

so... i'd like to ask you to give me what makes for you ( o english is great for refering to you ( single) to you ( plurale) ) something that is competitive . because otherwise , you are simply the perpetual voice that ask for balancing that is always present.

CHESS is competitive. is about doing the same thing over and over .

competitiviness require a common starting point , that is then changed and trasformed by the partecipant ability .
competitive nature , require ripetitiveness .
 
  • 4
  • 1
Reactions:

Oxo31000

Private
40 Badges
Apr 3, 2020
14
41
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Age of Wonders
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
mhh... i'd like to add a counter-argument .

a PVP based game extremly competitive , for example ...

Starcraft : the META change at most patch , but the game is litteraly played the same way over and over, so much so, theyr build is not only based on what to do, but the TIME you need to make it . there are different races ( 3 ) but they play all the same way in theyr rispective matchup . and even on Starcraft there is a constant war of ppl talking about umbalancing .



League of Legends : there is a META that change at most patch , the game is played over and over again, and apart for when you want to have fun ( comparable of playing RP) some champs can't be used in a competitive way because they are too weak - hard . there is ALWAYS a COSTANT talk about balancing .

so... i'd like to ask you to give me what makes for you ( o english is great for refering to you ( single) to you ( plurale) ) something that is competitive . because otherwise , you are simply the perpetual voice that ask for balancing that is always present.

CHESS is competitive. is about doing the same thing over and over .

competitiviness require a common starting point , that is then changed and trasformed by the partecipant ability .
competitive nature , require ripetitiveness .
First of all, I apologize for my English, I have to use DeepL to understand you and to answer you.

Indeed, in competitive games the balancing is defined by level, and each race / hero has a power pick, and processes or peculiarities that are specific to him to enter, or at least try to enter this balancing.
And it is the speed of execution of the players that allows or not the viability of the thing.

This observation made, we can say that the constants in general, is that something will be strong at the beginning of the game, one in the middle of the game, and another at the end of the game.
And that the execution of a given plan for the chosen gameplay will be different depending on the initial race / hero choice.

The main thing that comes to mind is to talk about the authoritarian and the slave guild.
This combo is the strongest from 2200 to 3999. It has no power loss during the game.

We can also talk about the materialist and technocracy as opposed to the spiritualist and exalted priesthood.
Technology is much more efficient than unity from the beginning to the end of the game and it is legitimate to think that it is never a bad idea to make a laboratory, while it is always a bad idea to make a second temple, or even to do it too early and end up with an overproduction of service.
So you end up with a materialist who will do far more science AND far more unity than a spiritualist.
Where does the spiritualist's salvation ?

These are the simplest examples, there are so many others!


I would like to add that I don't want a competitive stellaris, as I don't want a competitive civilization.

I just want the strengths of some builds to stand up to others.
That certain choices can be made without us saying "I can't win with this anyway".

I'm not even asking for all of them to be tweaked, just that another approach might be possible.
Why not for example give the possibility to the spiritualists to use decrees with unity less powerful than ambitions and this from the beginning of the game.
That could justify a real investment in unity.

Why not force the authoritarians to research the use of stratified economy, or even the use of "peon" status?
 
Last edited:
  • 2
  • 1
Reactions:

SeraphAscending

Major
27 Badges
Jan 14, 2021
684
1.732
  • Knights of Pen and Paper 2
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Cities: Skylines - Campus
  • Prison Architect
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • Shadowrun: Hong Kong
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Magicka 2: Ice, Death and Fury
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Magicka 2
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Magicka: Wizard Wars Founder Wizard
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Cities: Skylines
  • War of the Roses
  • Victoria 2
  • Magicka
  • Knights of Pen and Paper +1 Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Dungeonland
See, that's where I fundamentally disagree. By bundling all these different features together, you're not "making the DLC for everyone", you're making people pay for features they don't necessarily want, or even like. If you go into a grocery to buy some butter, but the only one you find is sold bundled with an umbrella, you're going to scratch your head and ask the owner if they're selling the butter separately, and when the owner says that all their butter is sold with an umbrella, you're going to start looking for another grocery to shop at, because you don't want to pay for an umbrella that you don't want nor need.

And that's the problem I've had with Stellaris in the past and have again with this DLC. I get that I'm in the minority here, but the Nemesis feature does not interest me at all. It's not something I want, and I actually think that it would harm my enjoyment of the game if I had to contend with it. But if I want to access the full spectrum of the espionage feature, I have to pay and endure another feature, totally unrelated to espionage, that I do not want. So either I pay and I'm frustrated, or I don't and I'm frustrated. It's a lose-lose situation. And you guys actually lose too, because I would've been okay with paying 5 or 8 euros for the espionage feature on its own, but I'm not going to drop 20 euros for something that I don't find fun.

Anyway. Good luck to you with the patch, I hope it works out, but I'd sincerely appreciate if future DLCs would actually be more focused so that this issue doesn't pop up again.
What a lot of people seem to forget a lot on here:
the free updates and continued development are funded by the sales of the DLCs. One of the major reasons I decided to buy a buttload of DLC after getting the base game and a few major ones a year ago was because I wanted to support the project while also unlocking a few new things for myself.

Nemesis is a good example of that. I do like the features and want to try them, but just buy a cost/benefit evaluation I would probably not buy it.
The free update is stuff I am really, really looking forward to, because it improves upon several things that are important to me.

At this point I've probably spent like 200-300 hours in the game. The time enjoyed per € spent is a really great ratio for me. And paying full price for this DLC now is not going to ruin that statistic. (Although I did get most dlc and the base game on sale on gog)
So I do not mind supporting the continued development of this game, even if just the paywalled DLC content on its own does not give me all the excitement you'd expect for the price.

I am looking forward to probably a few more hundreds of hours of enjoyment over the next few years.
 
  • 8
  • 2Like
Reactions:

SeraphAscending

Major
27 Badges
Jan 14, 2021
684
1.732
  • Knights of Pen and Paper 2
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Cities: Skylines - Campus
  • Prison Architect
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • Shadowrun: Hong Kong
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Magicka 2: Ice, Death and Fury
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Magicka 2
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Magicka: Wizard Wars Founder Wizard
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Cities: Skylines
  • War of the Roses
  • Victoria 2
  • Magicka
  • Knights of Pen and Paper +1 Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Dungeonland
Maybe one day we will have the good news that the devs are working on the main negative point of their game, namely the balancing.
When in multiplayer games, of any type, no matter the rules, players play exactly the same civs (especially slave guild / technocracy), that spiritualism is totally useless since X patch, that biological hive are completely unplayable since almost ever (except when they were released), and that 3/4 of civs are just basically useless ... maybe the real work is here.
When players pass the 4000 or 5000 hours mark, they expect to be able to diversify their gameplay.

I would like to see the devs play their own games.
If players got 4000 hours out of the game then the devs have done their job right, considering how much the player paid them for that.
Expecting even more content than 4000 hours over 100-200€ seems to be a pretty extreme demand. Or am I the only one who finds that a bit excessive?
 
  • 12Like
  • 1
  • 1
Reactions:

StellarisFan1

Sergeant
2 Badges
Sep 29, 2018
75
55
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II
That’s it for this week, folks! We’ll be back next week on April 1st, the day most famous for being exactly 2 weeks before the release of 3.0 ‘Dick’ and Nemesis.

Is there a chance the DLC will release on April 1st?
 
  • 4Haha
Reactions:

Tamwin5

Field Marshal
20 Badges
Dec 3, 2017
3.092
4.181
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
Maybe one day we will have the good news that the devs are working on the main negative point of their game, namely the balancing.
When in multiplayer games, of any type, no matter the rules, players play exactly the same civs (especially slave guild / technocracy), that spiritualism is totally useless since X patch, that biological hive are completely unplayable since almost ever (except when they were released), and that 3/4 of civs are just basically useless ... maybe the real work is here.
When players pass the 4000 or 5000 hours mark, they expect to be able to diversify their gameplay.

I would like to see the devs play their own games.
A lot of people have already addressed the problems in trying to constantly making everything super balanced, and also how the meta will constantly change with the regular updates and overhauls. I do think that stellaris should be more balanced, however not to the extreme lengths you are suggesting, just tuning down the power levels of indentured servitude slavery and technocracy, and buffing up a bunch of the weak civics to make them interesting.

However there are mods which adjust values to balance the game. I highly recommend you play with Stefan's Balance mod if you are wanting a more balanced experience, my RP mp group uses it so that someone who wants to play as a shadow council environmentalist doesn't get left behind.
 
  • 5
  • 1Like
Reactions:

Elfwind

Major
18 Badges
May 11, 2016
779
409
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II
Can we please have federations be something you can ressurect or turn into power blocs like the corporate power blocs when a galactic empire is formed like from the clone wars so that they are not completely lost?

I don't think having one feature destroy another is a good idea and power blocs can make for internal conflict in galactic imperiums.
 
  • 3
Reactions:

Oxo31000

Private
40 Badges
Apr 3, 2020
14
41
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Age of Wonders
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
A lot of people have already addressed the problems in trying to constantly making everything super balanced, and also how the meta will constantly change with the regular updates and overhauls. I do think that stellaris should be more balanced, however not to the extreme lengths you are suggesting, just tuning down the power levels of indentured servitude slavery and technocracy, and buffing up a bunch of the weak civics to make them interesting.

However there are mods which adjust values to balance the game. I highly recommend you play with Stefan's Balance mod if you are wanting a more balanced experience, my RP mp group uses it so that someone who wants to play as a shadow council environmentalist doesn't get left behind.
I don't care if the balancing act is a change in strong or weak civics.

Mods are nice, but I just don't think it's the community's job to make these simple balancing adjustments.
Also, many people just don't speak English, which takes away from the fun of playing.
On top of that you quote me a mod of Stefan (I guess Stephan Annon), the name alone doesn't make me want to do it.

And yes the game I like it very much, as do all the players in my community. It justifies the 4000 hours of play (even 5000 from memory). And I never said that the devs did a shitty job, otherwise I wouldn't play the game. I'm just saying that in my opinion, they don't address the main problem of the game.
 
  • 8
Reactions:

grommile

Field Marshal
66 Badges
Jun 4, 2011
21.011
30.179
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Teleglitch: Die More Edition
  • Victoria 2
  • 500k Club
  • March of the Eagles
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Knights of Pen and Paper 2
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis III
Mods are nice, but I just don't think it's the community's job to make these simple balancing adjustments.
Balancing Spiritualist against Materialist is not simple. (step one is simple – remove Materialist's unity-from-scientists so that Spiritualist is genuinely better at unity – but not sufficient).
 
  • 5
  • 1Like
Reactions:

Primarch Victus

Major
19 Badges
Feb 10, 2017
502
396
  • Knights of Pen and Paper +1 Edition
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Shadowrun: Hong Kong
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
It hasn't changed since Dev Diary 192 - the Transit Hub doubles the automatic resettlement rate from planets in the system. (There's a base chance without it that's higher for Democracies.)
Once we are talking about Transit Hubs and such, I have a suggestion: I always thought that Babylon 5's lore for its version of hyperspace ( https://babylon5.fandom.com/wiki/Hyperspace ) was far more interesting than the lore present in both Star Wars ( https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Hyperspace ) and Stargate ( https://stargate.fandom.com/wiki/Hyperspace ). It would be interesting to see elements from B5's lore added to Stellaris.
 
Last edited:
  • 1
  • 1
Reactions:

Verx90

General
46 Badges
Mar 22, 2014
1.808
1.295
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Sword of the Stars II
  • Magicka
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Prison Architect
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Surviving Mars: Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Age of Wonders: Shadow Magic
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Victoria 2
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Surviving Mars
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
First of all, I apologize for my English, I have to use DeepL to understand you and to answer you.

Indeed, in competitive games the balancing is defined by level, and each race / hero has a power pick, and processes or peculiarities that are specific to him to enter, or at least try to enter this balancing.
And it is the speed of execution of the players that allows or not the viability of the thing.

This observation made, we can say that the constants in general, is that something will be strong at the beginning of the game, one in the middle of the game, and another at the end of the game.
And that the execution of a given plan for the chosen gameplay will be different depending on the initial race / hero choice.

The main thing that comes to mind is to talk about the authoritarian and the slave guild.
This combo is the strongest from 2200 to 3999. It has no power loss during the game.

We can also talk about the materialist and technocracy as opposed to the spiritualist and exalted priesthood.
Technology is much more efficient than unity from the beginning to the end of the game and it is legitimate to think that it is never a bad idea to make a laboratory, while it is always a bad idea to make a second temple, or even to do it too early and end up with an overproduction of service.
So you end up with a materialist who will do far more science AND far more unity than a spiritualist.
Where does the spiritualist's salvation ?

These are the simplest examples, there are so many others!


I would like to add that I don't want a competitive stellaris, as I don't want a competitive civilization.

I just want the strengths of some builds to stand up to others.
That certain choices can be made without us saying "I can't win with this anyway".

I'm not even asking for all of them to be tweaked, just that another approach might be possible.
Why not for example give the possibility to the spiritualists to use decrees with unity less powerful than ambitions and this from the beginning of the game.
That could justify a real investment in unity.

Why not force the authoritarians to research the use of stratified economy, or even the use of "peon" status?


then , all i've to say , is that you will get a new chance to look for playable build with this new expansion .


i get the feeling of some build not having the same " military potential " , since even with all the addition to the game , a PVP game with the idea of fighting it out like a competitive conterpart of RTS ( real time strategy) soffocate the concept of most build.

having alot of diplomats may give you the chance to make alot of friends , that alow for treaty , etc . but if you try to use such system in a game where evryone want to "win by war " you are simply going to have non-viable build.




i suggest you ( in general i guess) to look for a way to have a competitive game at stellaris , not by " lets make war till only one stand " , but to follow the victory points ; war would still be part of the game OFC , mainly because war can solve most problems . but if you play to reach victory by points , you may free server laws of federations limits or similar, killing off by group those players that are forcing military conquest as theyr way of victory .

that said, economy and diplomacy have some deep now , thx to the GC and the rework of economy , but they are still rudimental . with the new expansion we will be able to actualy hide some information , so the players will not know most of our actions \ state of power .


i think if you stop thinking of stellaris as a war game, and instead more similar to a gestional game , you can find new builds that may work .

ofc this need other players to have the will to play differently , and have a diplmatic elastic way of playing the game .

with the knowledge that there is still too few internal politics , so some ethos and civics are quite "weak" in comparison to other in theyr efficency ( spiritualism would be a strong position for internal politics , but its useless at the current state of the game to have a strenght in this)

i think that if you go away from the idea of SET PVP status to a FFA with no limitation ( diplomatic mainly, but i think players should still be proibited to play totalwar empires) , as the game was intended to be played ( and with the possibility to rejoin as a "freed" empire in case someone manage to "bring freedom" to you) you may find new way to force diplomatic way inside the game.

THAT said, ofc the simple PVP WAR focus make the game much faster , and easyer to be played . but if you pick this way of playing the game , OFC you have to leave most build behind . because what matter is war. authoritarian are the best at using conquered populations , militarist have the best fleets and materialist have tech and the possibility of extra pops build up .


some of those things will change with the new expansion.

So all i can say at the end is... try the new expansion. maybe there will be 2-3 more build open to be used over the previous 3 , but i doubt that , because there will still be a BEST META because there is always a MIN-MAX and MIN-MAX does not share the power.
 

Primarch Victus

Major
19 Badges
Feb 10, 2017
502
396
  • Knights of Pen and Paper +1 Edition
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Shadowrun: Hong Kong
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
Last edited:
  • 1
Reactions: