Stellaris Dev Diary #201: Galactic Imperium

[Maethendias]

It just... doesn't feel nearly as satisfying, you know? Sure, I can pass the Universal Prosperity Mandate and the Custodian Permanent Term with my overwhelming diplo power, but that feels no different from any other, less impactful resolution. Also, there's no guarantee anyone is going to actually follow those rules. Making an egalitarian Imperium/something similar with a grand event and several new mechanics in a new interface is much more impactful, but we ain't getting that. Only the authoritarians do.
My empire might believe in the freedom and equality of individual citizens but not galactic empires. There would be a lot more room for RP if it weren't for the restrictions.

people always forget that stellaris isnt just a 4x strategy game

its a ROLEPLAY game

you ROLEPLAY your empire

 

[Janx14]

people always forget that stellaris isnt just a 4x strategy game

its a ROLEPLAY game

you ROLEPLAY your empire

Your ignoring the part of the post where he's made that its limiting RP.

Also no, roleplay doesn't magically fix anything.

Nor is stellaris officially a rpg anywhere.

 

[Scyobi_Empire]

I understand the concern, but it would be very hard to be caught off guard with something like this. Either a player or AI empire would need to become the custodian, make their position permanent, and then declare a new order. Even with the ability to shorten vote time, you would be more than able to kill the would-be Imperium in its infancy.
As for authority, I agree with that to a degree. Like if your a democracy then a change would be obvious with the shift to authoritarian, but if your a dictatorship (or maybe even an oligarchy) you should be able to keep that.

You fail to release in Multiplayer, where everyone is better then the AI, is smarter and could use the Emergency measure to get it to the floor instantly, Freeze the one removing it, call in favour with AI (or bribe players) and lastly use the new feature to complete it half way through. You should have an option to leave right before it activates or have a 3 month grace where anyone can join or leave for free.

 

[SilentReflection]

You fail to release in Multiplayer, where everyone is better then the AI, is smarter and could use the Emergency measure to get it to the floor instantly, Freeze the one removing it, call in favour with AI (or bribe players) and lastly use the new feature to complete it half way through. You should have an option to leave right before it activates or have a 3 month grace where anyone can join or leave for free.

If someone does that in multiplayer, aren't they just being good at the game?

 

[TrotBot]

I love it. I still feel you've got some treats for the egalitarians to fight all of this you're holding back for a reveal

Either way I intend to be an egalitarian crisis against the imperium.

 

[Bitzo]

While I like the feature in and of itself, I have got to agree with some of the sentiments in the replies, namely these topics:

Like has been already mentioned, the action of taking such power is intrinsically incredibly authoritarian.

There's nothing stopping a player from reforming their government (by spending the 250 influence) to change authorities, provided they meet the ethic requirements for the authority they're changing to.

Would it not make much more sense then, to shift away from Egalitarianism if it is there, and replace it with Authoritarianism - shift from (Fanatic) Egalitarianism to Authoritarianism - but still keep any other Ethics as they were if you are neutral on the Egalitarian/Authoritarian axis and then proceed to choosing (or keeping) a Dictatorial or Imperial Authority from the get go, instead of somebody forming the thing, and the newly minted First Galactic Emperor then telling the rest of the players: "Don't do anything for 40 years! I have to painstakingly shift my Ethics and reform my government in four ten-year intervalls because the game gives you a 10 year timer between every single Ethics shift/Government reform, then we can proceed playing where we left off! You can rebel against me once I'm the Fanatic Xenophobic Militarist Oligarchy I used to be, but not before!", as well as given that the commitment to having an intrinsically autocratic government form (Imperial/Dictatorial) already implies lower-case authoritarianism without having your empire revolve around low-CG-use, low(ish)-happiness Living Standards and alien chattle slavery and indeed, requires no upper-case Authoritarianism to be used, plus having vassals or tributaries - which Galactic Imperium member states in a roundabout way kind of are - requires no such Ethic either?
Besides, there's whole (flavour-text only, but still) variations on Authorities based on Ethics (except Egalitarianism/Authoritarianism and Xenophobia/Xenophilia): 'Totalitarian Regime' for instance, is the name for any Dictatorial Authority with any kind of Materialist Ethos, so you could end up having a case where a Fan. Materialist Xenophile Dictatorship becomes the Imperial Core, and to prove that they are now less Materialist in favour of being more Authoritarian instead, they... stop... being.. totalitarian? How's that prove that they're more stratified now?

We had it like that initially, but changed it because it seriously reduced the severity of the situation. It's potentially more interesting if you have to deal with it.

@grekulf How about making it so that the initial Imperial Authority score upon founding the Galactic Imperium is based on how many empires voted yes or no? That way, even when if the Custodian alone has enough Diplomatic Weight to win the vote single-handedly, and indeed was the only one that voted 'yes', while all other empires in the GC voted 'no', Imperial Authority starts at 55, so a rebellion can ignite really fast, whereas if the absolute amount of member empires - regardless of their own respective diplo weight - was evenly split down the middle, Authority starts at 75, and then maybe 95 if the vote was unanimously in favour of it?

 

[Pale Blue]

This reminds me, Ideology/Liberation wars should really be reworked. It makes no sense for them to result in a carbon copy of the attacking government.

Especially for Megacorps. Why would they want to create competition?

I understand the concern, but it would be very hard to be caught off guard with something like this. Either a player or AI empire would need to become the custodian, make their position permanent, and then declare a new order. Even with the ability to shorten vote time, you would be more than able to kill the would-be Imperium in its infancy.
As for authority, I agree with that to a degree. Like if your a democracy then a change would be obvious with the shift to authoritarian, but if your a dictatorship (or maybe even an oligarchy) you should be able to keep that.

Yes you can kill it in singleplaer. The player is basically a god in SP.
In mp not so much. Most wont vote for it, because they dont benefit from it, but it could be done if you somehow can convince enough other players to vote for it.
Honestly i could see this being used just for the reason to kill another federation. One Federation proposes it and transitions into the Imperium. The other federations is forced to either leave the GC and lose it benefits if they want to keep their federation, they submit to the other federation and become subjects or they rebell but having lost their federation are at a severe disadvantage.

Personally it seems like the only reason to form the Imperium in mp is to kill off other federations, because non-emperor empires dont get benefits. To me that seems wrong an not to be the intended purpose.

The imperial council for example seems now to be appointed by the emperor. If being a member of the imperial council somehow benefits you personally beyond the effects of the normal galactic council i could see the emperor promising certain players a place in this new council if they vote for them. They would be behind the emperor but be above anyone else.


Also what is supposed to happen with federation fleets? The ones of the soon to be emperor and anyone who voted yes could be switch over to being the new imperial armada, but what about those that voted no? Does the emperor get those ships too? Do they just disappear? Do you get the build cost back and its distributed among the federation members? This seems especially troublesome if you oppose the emperor. You just lost a lot of fleet power, potentially even gifted the emperor the fleet against your will.

 

[SilentReflection]

If you look closely at the Imperial Crusade resolutions, you will realize that the targets are Fallen Empires. (Spiritualist, Materialist, and Machine to be exact)

 

[Nighzmarquls]

There's always further to go. I mean, we can't even devour worlds and all life on them as a psionic empire and then use that power to strike down enemy fleets.

Or hell, as a machine empire converting the Organic pops into the materials of a star system sized giant server world.

You can eat planets as a silicone based life form though.

 

[Brian McG]

Would it be possible to mod the game to start with the Galactic Imperium, say if you wanted to make a mod of the Imperium of Man from Warhammer 40,000?

 

[Shaeliss]

Is passing a resolution the only way to become the Imperium? I don't know, it sounds a little too well-behaved to fit the profile of palpatine types. LIke, you can get there and become the big-bad, but only through a democratic vote.

Perhaps keep the 'resolution-only' way, but add some more DEVIOUS ways to win the vote, like specific intel ops to sway votes, or forcing a yes vote under some (evil) circumstances such as having 10x fleet power ... or something, as long as the way to become a napoleonic space lettuce isn't only via strictly legal ways.

Favors are a thing.

 

[Gali77]

man what a disappointing expansion. nothing but some lategame flavor for when the game is boring as hell. I already dominate the galactic community for what good it does. Still can't get anything passed on the higher levels without mass warfare or voting it yourself. the AI just passes low levels and then locks up. Allies are still a joke and lock you into 50 year long wars with 4 empires and refuse to peace out for 5 systems without world war 2 levels of exhaustion. Lets us absorb our federations or they're useless. Building a big federation is NOT worth the trouble. Also we still have no means to break apart or combine federations massively limiting diplomatic solutions.

The balance is still massively off. Authoritarians made egalitarians a joke with indentured servitude and now gain another massive late game power grab to nothing for egalitarians. Spiritualists are a joke and are getting weaker this expansion. gestalts gain nothing but weaker and less fleshed out mechanics for regular empires.

How about fixing the war in heaven, making fallen and awakened empires an actual threat and allowing real diplomacy. Fix the black hole that is your midgame without endless war. I doubt espionage will fill that gap. Getting constantly spammed about sabotage against my empire by every empire, including my allies, in the midgame will not be interesting or enticing. Nope more late game you've won you are the senate heres a star wars meme. An espionage and military expanison could have been exiciting if it focused on armies, new ship types and new threats. But no just a massive amount of late game bling for my golden god empire

 

[Pale Blue]

If someone does that in multiplayer, aren't they just being good at the game?

Any decent player could just leave at 49% session time if the imperium forms against their will, so why not just make it an event option for anyone?

While I like the feature in and of itself, I have got to agree with some of the sentiments in the replies, namely these topics:


Would it not make much more sense then, to shift away from Egalitarianism if it is there, and replace it with Authoritarianism - shift from (Fanatic) Egalitarianism to Authoritarianism - but still keep any other Ethics as they were if you are neutral on the Egalitarian/Authoritarian axis and then proceed to choosing (or keeping) a Dictatorial or Imperial Authority from the get go, instead of somebody forming the thing, and the newly minted First Galactic Emperor then telling the rest of the players: "Don't do anything for 40 years! I have to painstakingly shift my Ethics and reform my government in four ten-year intervalls because the game gives you a 10 year timer between every single Ethics shift/Government reform, then we can proceed playing where we left off! You can rebel against me once I'm the Fanatic Xenophobic Militarist Oligarchy I used to be, but not before!", as well as given that the commitment to having an intrinsically autocratic government form (Imperial/Dictatorial) already implies lower-case authoritarianism without having your empire revolve around low-CG-use, low(ish)-happiness Living Standards and alien chattle slavery and indeed, requires no upper-case Authoritarianism to be used, plus having vassals or tributaries - which Galactic Imperium member states in a roundabout way kind of are - requires no such Ethic either?
Besides, there's whole (flavour-text only, but still) variations on Authorities based on Ethics (except Egalitarianism/Authoritarianism): 'Totalitarian Regime' for instance, is the name for any Dictatorial Authority with any kind of Materialist Ethos, so you could end up having a case where a Fan. Materialist Xenophile Dictatorship becomes the Imperial Core, and to prove that they are now less Materialist in favour of being more Authoritarian instead, they... stop... being.. totalitarian? How's that prove that they're more stratified now?

@grekulf How about making it so that the initial Imperial Authority score upon founding the Galactic Imperium is based on how many empires voted yes or no? That way, even when if the Custodian alone has enough Diplomatic Weight to win the vote single-handedly, and indeed was the only one that voted 'yes', while all other empires in the GC voted 'no', Imperial Authority starts at 55, so a rebellion can ignite really fast, whereas if the absolute amount of member empires - regardless of their own respective diplo weight - was evenly split down the middle, Authority starts at 75, and then maybe 95 if the vote was unanimously in favour of it?

Maybe make the change to fanatic authorian optional. If you get a chosen one you get an event to become an imperial cult, but you can decline and dont have to be an imperial cult if you have a chosen one.

 

[Arithmetician]

Keep in mind that Palpatine was only able to become Galactic Emperor because he was granted emergency powers in a democratic vote, was allowed to stay in his office beyond his regular term limits by that democratic body, and enjoyed a supermajority in the Senate at the time of his declaration of the New Order, which was met by thunderous applause.

And yes, favors are a thing. And if I recall correctly, intelligence operations do give you some underhanded ways to coerce favors from other nations.

 

[Darkrenown]

Ah, finally!

 

[Pale Blue]

Keep in mind that Palpatine was only able to become Galactic Emperor because he was granted emergency powers in a democratic vote, was allowed to stay in his office beyond his regular term limits by that democratic body, and enjoyed a supermajority in the Senate at the time of his declaration of the New Order, which was met by thunderous applause.

And yes, favors are a thing. And if I recall correctly, intelligence operations do give you some underhanded ways to coerce favors from other nations.

There are also events that can give you them. The one where you find a stranded ore freighter and can decide to give it back to gain favours or keep it for the minerals.

 

[Arithmetician]

It's almost always better to give it back. The favor and especially the influence is far more valuable than a paltry sum of minerals. But again, we digress.

 

[zZander56]

I assume there's no restrictions on being head of the Imperium as a Criminal Heritage Megacorp, right? Would this change the way the Imperial Concession branch building works?

 

[DanielPrates]

Favors are a thing.

"Oh please vote for me so that I can dominate you completely, remember that thing I did for you last year?"

yeah truly devious.

 

[Arithmetician]

Again, with the additions from the espionage system, favors can now encompass coercion from blackmail or similar means... which would count as you being devious.

Additionally, in the version of the game that we currently have, it can also be construed as bribing important officials in the target government, which also fits the "devious" flavor... even if that is a rather trivial tactic for a human player in practice.