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Stellaris Dev Diary #20 - War & Peace

Hello everyone!

For today’s dev diary, I thought I’d talk about a crucial part of Stellaris; waging wars and making peace, because as you know, not all ETs are nice... The system is different from most strategy games out there, but should be familiar to anyone who has played a Paradox Development Studio title. In fact, it is probably most reminiscent of how these things work in the Europa Universalis games.

Let’s start at the beginning. When you declare war in Stellaris, you have to state what your aims are; what the war is actually about. You simply choose from a list of possible goals, where each one is listed with a certain cost. The total cost of your picked goals cannot exceed 100. If you have a good reason to take something, the cost will be reduced. This might be the case if, for example, members of your founding species happen to live on a planet, or if it has previously been a part of your empire.

If you are a member of an alliance, the other members will need approve your list of selected goals before you can actually start the war. This is of course more likely if you are not too greedy and want to take everything yourself. That is, you will probably want to assign some goals to other alliance members to get them to approve the war.
stellaris_dev_diary_20_01_20160208_declare_war.jpg

When a war has been declared, the defending side is allowed to add war goals in the same manner, but they have an important advantage; they have a one-year grace period, and can thus choose targets depending on how the war is already progressing.

You need to gain “war score” in order to win, just like in our other games (-100 to 100.) At any time, you can negotiate for peace by selecting specific goals from your own list or that of the other side, very much like in Europa Universalis (except that you are limited to the stated war goals.)

Of course, wars are not always waged simply to seize territory: Other valid goals could be vassalization, for example, or securing a treaty of some kind. Sometimes, you might not really care about your stated goals at all, but just going in there and destroying the enemy’s space ports and stations...
stellaris_dev_diary_20_01_20160208_war_overview.jpg

Like in most of our games, occupying a planet with your armies does not mean it immediately becomes yours, of course; you need to demand it in the peace talks. There is a notable exception to this rule though; so called “first contact wars”. Before you have established communications with another civilization, it is possible to simply attack them and even take one of their planets (but once you take a planet, communications are immediately established.) Of course, such early hostility will never be forgotten, and will sour your relations for the rest of the game… There are other exceptions to how wars are waged, in the form of special types of civilizations, but that will have to wait for another dev diary.

That’s all for this week folks, stay tuned next week for “Administrative Sectors”!
 
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Cephei80

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Like what I'm seeing. The pre-declared war goals and division of spoils among allies are nice mechanics.

I do hope there is a total war/extermination war goal which makes taking territory incredibly cheap for some ethos, but in turn imposes a gargantuan aggressive expansion and overextension penalty - ie the game systems punish excess warmongering in a logical and disproportionate way, rather than outright prevent it.

maybe they are some sort of casusbelli who give you this possibiltyin stellaris like (crusades and imperialisme of eu4 who give you the possibility to conquer an entire faction (but only in late game))
 

nossnahoj

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Galaxies are pretty flat...

With a galaxy being 100,000 LY across, and only 2,000 LY in width, I don't really see a problem with representing it as 2D

Spiral galaxies are yes. Galaxies not. 2000 LY is no matter what wide enought to allow a detour from the ecliptic no matter what, don't you think? The "political borders" map pretty much simplifies the possibilities immensely.
 
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Thure

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Spiral galaxies are yes. Galaxies not. 2000 LY is no matter what wide enought to allow a detour from the ecliptic no matter what, don't you think? The "political borders" map pretty much simplifies the possibilities immensely.

Eh... most galaxies are flat. Ingame we have spiral, elliptical and ring. All of them are generally really flat. I really see no reason to make the game 3d... this would just make everything more complex than neccessary.
 
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Giack

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I think it has advantages, especially when working with allies. It is a better model of how you motivate your allies: "You want this planet, we want that planet, let's kill some bugs and take it." So, instead of spending all of its troop in a war it is getting nothing out of, the AI knows what their stake is. The same applies to you: If the AI calls you to war, you know what you might get ("Squashing bugs is all fun, but what do I get when you take all the planets?"). And if the AI has chosen poorly (as we all know it will), your ships stay at home.

In addition you can plan your war better. If you have some objective, you know whether it is possible to get in one war (while satisfying your allies) or not. Nothing is more annoying in EU4 when you declare war and fight it to only then discover that your objective would cost 101% warscore, or those two provinces you want would make you the target of coalition consisting of every single HRE prince.

I do not think there are many disadvantages. Most of the time what you want should be quite static. You probably want that strategically important planet, no matter what happens in the war (and if you know that, you would not orbitally bombard it, anyway). Unless there is some kind of penalty for it, you should just ask for all you could possibly want at the beginning, and if the war does not go so well, you just settle for less. There are only a few situations where I could imagine my interests to change:
- I discover something that I want only after the war declaration. That could be managed by proper scouting, which you should probably be doing before the war, anyway.
- They colonize something new during the war. If you really want to settle that empty planet yourself, you could just shoot down their colony ships.
- The war goal gets taken by someone else. That is the only situation that should be an exception and needs to be adressed, because otherwise I might have a war with 90% score, but nothing to demand for it.

I partially agree with you:
the question at this point is obvious: is there any advantage in declaring your war goals so that war score is less than 100? Still I don't think everything is so static; let's make an example: I want to conquer some planets and take as many planets as I can making my allies happy and reaching 100. What happens if war doesn't go as well as I'd expect and I am stuck at 50 war score with the need of signing a peace deal. Now I can ask for planets up to 40 war score but adding any other planet would get over 50 making the opponent refuse the peace deal. Yet you could add a sweet war reparations (as in EU4) to get up to 50 and get as much as you can from the opponent. To do this you should add the war reparations in the war goal (if I understand this correctly); still doing so I won't be able to ask as many planets in case I get up to 100 war score.

So I agree with you on the fact that it probably isn't a big deal and you can easily get used to the system still I also think not all changes are necessarily going in a better direction.

I also have a question: will it be possible to have separate peace deals as in EU4? As it was not stated and given the changes I would assume the answer is no... still I am curious.
 

Caspoi

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Man I wanted to be like the empire of man just cleanse all planets and put in mine obermensch instead. ;(

The Emperor of Man?

I know who he is.
 

hewhoispale

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I think for gameplay or engine reasons is why they can't depopulate. I know that any game that allows you to destroy/depopulate planets it becomes a VERY tedious ordeal, with the AI and you basically just spamming depopulation on each other, and having to micro your planets back up every time.
Also, it is functionally impossible to actually depopulate a planet by the time technology has advanced to the interstellar empire level. There's always going to be some hardened bunker complex somewhere.
 

Lord_P

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I want a cylon CB. I want to exterminate entire species.
 

Safehold

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I see ''administrative sectors'' is next week's. I really hope we'll have some kind of ''development thing'' in same spirit as the common sense dlc/patch for EU4. So peacetime isn't a vaccum of activity and money stacking when all exploration is done.

You can still fortify your systems using military stations and build up your early detection pickets. Given how many stars are in that Stellaris galaxy, I would probably want as much intel as possible, the sooner the better.

Concerning the DD OP, this allows us to Free Mars from the alien invaders, the BETA.

If your policies allow full orbital bombardment, it is possible to severely damage planets, but not to completely depopulate them.

That's like when the Centauris broke the treaty about usage of Mass Drivers on a certain homeworld in Babylon 5. They hauled some asteroids and launched them at civilian cities.

I'm running a marathon watch of Babylon 5, and that was one of those events I must missed out on.
 

Koopatin

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I want a cylon CB. I want to exterminate entire species.

oooohhhhh! while you say that... if we could exterminate a race, or nearly exterminate a race... an event leading to a civil war would be nice. because not every cylon thought it was the right thing to do... cause of god and stuff!
 

Mr. Sometimes

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It is possible to exterminate alien races, though it's more of a long term project. Devs have already mentioned that there will be an ability to *cough* remove troublesome pops. So bomb the planets to ruins, annex the remnants of their empire and then set out your merciless bureaucracy to finish the job. No one ever said Exterminatus was easy.
 

Bryartuck

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It was already confirmed they are on beta.,..


Ummm.. No. You might want to read that again. What he said was they have taken on Beta testers. That does not mean that they are in Beta status. They took on Beta testers for HOI4 back in November and they have been testing the game for the last 3 months. They only reached Beta status on that last week. I guarantee you when they make Beta for this, there will be an official announcement here on the forums, and on Twitter.
 
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Safehold

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I have to disagree. The stars are already very large almost to the point of being comically oversized, and you can easily see them over the empire's tint, and not having some way to distinguish which area is owned by which empire would be fairly unhelpful.

This does bring an issue I have to mind though: I don't actually see buttons for map modes! Map modes are a very old staple of Paradox games and I can't think of any games that do it as well as Paradox does. Please, please don't exclude them, being able to see data right on the map instead of going into spreadsheets is very helpful for actually contextualizing what's going on, especially when it comes to alliance and war webs.

The Map modes in CK2, I would classify as a UI feature or quality of life issue. Thus until they iron out the balance and other stuff, I would predict the UI would be one of their last priorities [for Stellaris]. They will probably be completed around the same time all the UI and icon assets are updated. Then tested, iterated on if time is available, and will be there on release.
 

Cri11e

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Good questions!

Probably the same thing as what happens in EU4 when several nations declare separate wars for the same province. You won't be able to demand the planet/province since its not their's anymore. I can't remember what happens about the wargoal if I had the energy I'd do some tests in eu4 to see how they handled it there. I can almost guarantee it'll be the same answer for stellaris.
 

EntropyAvatar

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Probably the same thing as what happens in EU4 when several nations declare separate wars for the same province. You won't be able to demand the planet/province since its not their's anymore.

It seems likely. However, in EU4, you could always take something else from the war target. In Stellaris that doesn't seem to be an option. So it's an automatic white peace?