• Crusader Kings II Expansion Subscription

    Subscribe to the CK II Expansion and enjoy unlimited access to 13 major expansions and more!


  • Paradox Midsummer Sale has arrived! Up to 75% off!

    Enjoy some sun and song this Midsummer, but when the sun goes down, the fun doesn't have to stop! Paradox has a festive sale on plenty of games to keep your summer nights going!


    June 18th - June 30th
  • Crusader Kings III Available Now!

    The realm rejoices as Paradox Interactive announces the launch of Crusader Kings III, the latest entry in the publisher’s grand strategy role-playing game franchise. Advisors may now jockey for positions of influence and adversaries should save their schemes for another day, because on this day Crusader Kings III can be purchased on Steam, the Paradox Store, and other major online retailers.


    Real Strategy Requires Cunning

Stellaris Dev Diary #192 : Perfectly Balanced, As All Things Should Be...

Hello!

This week we’re going to look at some more changes we're planning, as well as a review of how some of the experiments mentioned in the last few dev diaries have evolved.

Thank you for the massive amount of feedback in those threads.

Reduction in Pops

Due to the effects on performance and a desire to reduce the micromanagement burden in the mid to late game, some of the things we’ve been deeply looking into are different ways of dramatically reducing the number of pops in the galaxy.

These experiments have generally revolved around modifying the growth (or assembly required) for pops as an empire’s population grows, with some variants trying a logistic pop growth (where growth follows an S-shaped curve as planets develop, based on a carrying capacity of a planet). These experiments have reduced the end date pop count to somewhere around one half of the old numbers with the expected performance improvements.

Organic pops will follow a curve where they begin at standard population growth, increase growth as the approach a midpoint between population and the planetary carrying capacity, then slow down to zero as they reach the top of the curve. Pop Assembly, on the other hand, is generally slow but consistent. The biggest change is that producing a new pop no longer costs a static amount of pop growth - it increases as the empire population does.

A significant reduction in pops has a cascade of major implications for the overall economy, production, and other gameplay effects. As such, these also require a pass on buildings, technologies, and even seemingly minor ripple effects like what the value should be for the trade value generated by pops.

There will be a lot of patch notes.

Most buildings have been standardized to now give 2 jobs per tier rather than the old 2/5/8 progression.

1605711331057.png

Just one example of many.

We’ve also changed a few buildings to have new or additional features, such as the Spawning Pool and Clone Vats, which have had their Pop Growth modifiers replaced with the new Organic Pop Assembly. This fills the same slot on the planet as Robotic Pop Assembly, so generally you’ll want to pick one or the other. (Clone Vats also picked up a food upkeep cost to represent simple materials to break down.)

1605711370874.png
1605711378849.png

Pops is Soylent Green!

A few other jobs got minor perks added to them, like the Medical Workers from Gene Clinics making it a little easier to live on less hospitable worlds.

1605711434441.png

Doesn't normally produce exotic gas, this one happens to be a lithoid.

And a few new techs have been added to help compensate for lost productivity. One tech line increases both the job production of a planet as well as job upkeep - those fewer pops are still capable of producing the work of more on a developed planet.

Ring Worlds

As part of the balance pass, Ring Worlds have been bumped up to 10 segments from 5, and the jobs per segment have been adjusted.

1605711480292.png
1605711496833.png
1605711511728.png
1605711521188.png
1605711530973.png

The Shattered Ring origin now possesses a warning that it may be a Challenging Origin for Lithoids due to a scarcity of minerals, and now also applies the Ring World Habitability Preference to your pops. We’re considering adding a similar warning for Hives selecting the origin, since the habitability preference change puts a serious crimp in their expansion.

1605711541929.png

Put a ring on it?

Their starting blockers have also been adjusted to give a more balanced spread of jobs.

Ecumenopoleis

Like the Ring Worlds, these start with all building slots open. As mentioned before, you can now use the Arcology Project decision on a planet that has a mix of City and Industrial Districts.

Note: Empire has all technologies but no traditions active.
1605711566787.png
1605711585016.png
1605711593479.png
1605711601512.png

The ecumenopolis has a unique distinction of being able to have both the Factory and Foundry building lines on the same planet.

Habitats

The changes to Habitat modules are much smaller in scope, but here’s the list of their districts.

1605711621995.png
1605711632042.png
1605711641350.png
1605711651091.png
1605711658034.png

Void Dwellers have gotten a bit of attention as well with some tradition swaps for those that had minimal or no beneficial effects for them.

1605711683433.png

1605711691774.png


Replacing Public Works Division:
1605711706121.png


And for Void Dwellers with the Adaptability tree:
1605711724002.png


Interstellar Franchising and Imperious Architecture now also function for Habitats.

Updates to Dev Diary 190

Some of these updates may not be new to people following the forum threads, but it's easy to miss things so I figured we should go over them.

Many people requested the ability to fully specialize their foundry and factory worlds. We've modified the Forge and Industrial World planet designations to shift one pop on each Industrial District to the appropriate job if possible.

1605711738324.png
1605711745816.png


We've also upgraded the Food Processing Center, Mineral Purification Hub, and Energy Nexus to provide an extra job to each of their associated resource production districts. (The Food Processing Center will also improve Hydroponics Farms.)

1605711771358.png
1605711779670.png
1605711789149.png


One of the suggestions made in the thread was to add a civic that increases unlocked Building Slots. Sounded like a great addition to Functional Architecture.

1605711797879.png

Functionality increased!

Updates to Dev Diary 191

We’ve explored some additional options regarding the resettlement system we outlined in Dev Diary 191, and after trying a few things, and have settled on some extensive modifications to the system.

All planets with free sapient unemployed pops that are not locked down by migration controls will have a small chance every month of moving one to another planet within their empire that has jobs that they are willing and able to work, housing, and habitability of 40% or higher. This chance is increased if there are multiple unemployed pops that meet the criteria.

The system now prefers to move higher strata pops first, so rulers and specialists will move before workers, and this system also functions for gestalt empires. It will not relocate non-sapient robots or slaves. It will generally prefer to move pops to the planets with the most free jobs.

After some experimentation we’ve chosen to keep the Transit Hubs as Starbase Buildings that provide a system wide buff to the chance of auto-resettlement occurring. (Rather than being essential to have it occur in the first place.)

1605711834820.png

Doubles the chance the pops choose to resettle themselves.

Greater Than Ourselves has been rewritten to also massively increase this chance when the edict is active, with a +200% bonus.

We initially had these pops considering destinations available through Migration Pacts as well, but decided against keeping that since it introduced a new Migration Controls micromanagement element that we didn’t find desirable.

We’ve also done a minor update to the Authority bonuses that seemed a little bit weak.

1605711874350.png

1605711882524.png


Democracies now have a bonus encouraging their pops to seek their dreams, and Dictatorships have a bit of an easier time holding things together when they’re a bit overstretched.

Closing Thoughts

One other little quality of life improvement that was just added is this filter on the colonization interface.

Colonisation QoL.gif


That’s probably long enough for today. We’re looking forward to your feedback on these as well.

Next week w̷e̵'̸l̸l̴ ̴b̸e̴t̵̮̄ǎ̸͈l̷̠̈k̴͔͂i̴̞͒n̷̪͊g̸̳͗ ̸͚̎a̵͉̐b̵̤̿ȯ̴̲ṵ̵̀t̸͇͂ ҈҂▒©╛⅜

1605711927580.png
 
  • 210Like
  • 111Love
  • 24
Reactions:

Lorenerd11

Major
14 Badges
Mar 25, 2020
503
1.432
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
We’ve also changed a few buildings to have new or additional features, such as the Spawning Pool and Clone Vats, which have had their Pop Growth modifiers replaced with the new Organic Pop Assembly. This fills the same slot on the planet as Robotic Pop Assembly, so generally you’ll want to pick one or the other. (Clone Vats also picked up a food upkeep cost to represent simple materials to break down.)

1605711370874.png
1605711378849.png

Pops is Soylent Green!
Oh wow, and here I was talking about Clone Vats adding Cloner jobs that do precisely this, and now you just... went ahead and did it. :D Without the Cloner jobs, but still.
 
  • 8Like
Reactions:

GnoSIS

Major
22 Badges
Jan 27, 2009
582
944
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Warlock 2: Wrath of the Nagas
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Surviving Mars
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Surviving Mars: Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Warlock 2: The Exiled
  • Victoria 2
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
@Eladrin If "Planetary Carrying Capacity" is based of housing, then pre-building housing capacity will become the new meta and building speed bonuses are also pop growth bonuses indirectly!!! :cool::p
 
  • 13
Reactions:

Kommunist Fried Chicken

Sergeant
33 Badges
Feb 20, 2020
71
83
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
Do not forgot than we will have five medical worker per building.
+5 percent in total is correct I think.
But one job still provides +1%, and one job needs one pop. 1% habitability stands for .5% more produce and growth speed, 1% less upkeep. I don't think it worth 1 consume good and one pop (even considering the other produces by medical worker).
 
  • 7
Reactions:

Zahn82

Sergeant
59 Badges
Jan 5, 2016
61
207
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • BATTLETECH
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • Prison Architect
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Imperator: Rome - Magna Graecia
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • For the Motherland
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Cities in Motion 2
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris
We want the unemployed pops to naturally drift over time to the places where there are jobs. They won't voluntarily move to a place with habitability of 40% or lower.

Will there be a policy to Change Migration Rules for your empire or specific species?
Like "Resettle to more then 60% hab. only" while giving effects like a +/- to Migration chance, faction approval or happiness penalty.
Or force resettlement which could Speed Up the process but lowers stability.

Of course only be changeable every 10 years or so.

Imho this would be a nice addition to the new system and the Policy system too.
 
  • 14Like
  • 8
Reactions:

PhD_Fharon

Sergeant
22 Badges
Mar 14, 2018
74
146
www.mpi-bremen.de
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Tyranny - Bastards Wound
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Tyranny: Gold Edition
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Tyranny - Tales from the Tiers
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Magicka
Alright, I just came with an idea to make the "Slaver guilds" civic a bit more interesting. I would just eliminate the arbitrary 40% of slaved population which always felt artificial and I would still give it the 10% of increased slave production + the ability of slaves to automatically resettle. This would allow authoritarians with this civic to simulate organized guilds distributing slaves among planets with jobs. It would also implies that the civic stops being a "flat percentage civic" to allow certain mechanics to switch from egalitarian to authoritarian. And I would bring back the choice to submit a species (even your founder one) to the caste system.
 
  • 15Like
  • 11
  • 2
Reactions:

klingonadmiral

Field Marshal
49 Badges
Sep 15, 2014
2.565
3.142
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Victoria 2
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
The biggest change is that producing a new pop no longer costs a static amount of pop growth - it increases as the empire population does.

Wait a second ... can you not actually cheese that quite easily with vassals? Like say you have an emprie with 2 sectors. Tehn you conquer stuff off of another empire and put it in a new sector. You release one of your initial sectors as a vassal and start building up your new sector. Rinse and repeat.
 
  • 7Haha
  • 2
Reactions:

Eladrin

Stellaris Game Designer
Apr 4, 2019
282
7.144
www.paradoxplaza.com
Any news on how the various districts have been adjusted for Gestalts as well?
They're fairly similar. For Industrial things, change all the consumer goods jobs into alloy jobs. If it's a tier 1 resource generating job, hives get more of them.

What's the base chance of pop migration?
Because if it's very small, the double of nearly nothing is not much
10% currently, but the overall chance is multiplied by the number of unemployed pops.

At these numbers, here's the quick chart of "what is the chance that a single unemployed pop will have migrated within x months?"
MONTH
123456789101112
Base Empire10.00%19.00%27.10%34.39%40.95%46.86%52.17%56.95%61.26%65.13%68.62%71.76%
Base Empire + Hub20.00%36.00%48.80%59.04%67.23%73.79%79.03%83.22%86.58%89.26%91.41%93.13%
Base Empire + GTO30.00%51.00%65.70%75.99%83.19%88.24%91.76%94.24%95.96%97.18%98.02%98.62%
Base Empire + Hub + GTO40.00%64.00%78.40%87.04%92.22%95.33%97.20%98.32%98.99%99.40%99.64%99.78%
Democracy15.00%27.75%38.59%47.80%55.63%62.29%67.94%72.75%76.84%80.31%83.27%85.78%
Democracy + Hub25.00%43.75%57.81%68.36%76.27%82.20%86.65%89.99%92.49%94.37%95.78%96.83%
Democracy + GTO35.00%57.75%72.54%82.15%88.40%92.46%95.10%96.81%97.93%98.65%99.12%99.43%
Democracy + Hub + GTO45.00%69.75%83.36%90.85%94.97%97.23%98.48%99.16%99.54%99.75%99.86%99.92%

This also affects every planet now, and as noted above, if you have two unemployed pops on a planet, double these numbers.

Will those bonus also affect Ring world segments and habitat districts ?
Yes.

You mentioned "Planetary Carrying Capacity" but didn't expand upon as this is not in the game. Is this a fixed value as is used and added by several mods, or is it just the current housing? I.e. I build more districts/housing buildings and pop growth increases to match the new S curve. This would make it extremely important to pre-build housing!
This is one of the things that is still in balancing, but currently it's total housing but we include a bonus for undeveloped districts. People living off the land and such. Some planets, like Gaia worlds, get more carrying capacity for their undeveloped districts.

This may change to be a simpler formula largely based on planet size, since there are a couple of quirks I'm not totally happy with right now.

So what the point of Ecumenopolis ?
An Ecumenopolis still has an extremely high carrying capacity so is excellent for population growth, and is also quite effective at producing both jobs and housing from a single district type. It's still borderline OP, don't worry.

I feel like Organic Pop Assembly shouldn't be affected by the s-shape curve stuff, it should be a flat number if there's a lot of space, and the same flat number if there isn't a lot of space. The s-shape curve is because of how living populations live and reproduce. The pop production shouldn't be affected by that.
Pop Assembly doesn't follow the logistic curve, it's (generally) slower but constant.
 
  • 39Like
  • 28
  • 7
Reactions:

Lorenerd11

Major
14 Badges
Mar 25, 2020
503
1.432
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
The Shattered Ring origin now possesses a warning that it may be a Challenging Origin for Lithoids due to a scarcity of minerals, and now also applies the Ring World Habitability Preference to your pops. We’re considering adding a similar warning for Hives selecting the origin, since the habitability preference change puts a serious crimp in their expansion.

1605711541929.png
Could you please increase the base habitability of Habitat, Gaia, and Ringworld preference on Dry, Wet, and Cold planets to +20%? It's low enough to make settling these planets challenging, but it should still be easier than settling a Tomb world.
 
Last edited:
  • 30
  • 6Like
Reactions:

Troyen

Second Lieutenant
14 Badges
Aug 6, 2012
195
442
  • Crusader Kings II
  • 500k Club
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Deluxe edition
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Premium edition
  • Stellaris: Federations
So ships will also become cheaper? Because less pops means less resource output.
OTOH, if overall resource output across the galaxy decreased a bit, it might reduce the need many people have to spike up tech costs and crisis strength by making their relative strength to the baseline larger.
 
  • 9Like
  • 5
Reactions:

fodazd

Major
33 Badges
Feb 21, 2018
793
1.888
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Prison Architect
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall - Revelations
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Island Bound
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
I am really excited by these changes. I agree that the number of pops in the lategame was too high, and resettlement micro should now *finally* not be a thing anymore. Looking forward to playing with these changes. :)
 
  • 4Like
Reactions:

Incompetent

Euroweenie in Exile
53 Badges
Sep 22, 2003
8.108
5.375
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Prison Architect
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • For The Glory
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Warlock 2: The Exiled
  • 500k Club
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Pillars of Eternity
Very interesting changes. Certainly in the early game, if you're an empire that isn't assembling pops, it sounds like the mass colony rush will take a lot longer to pay off than it currently does. I'm wondering how the balance will work between the logistic curve of organic growth, and the job-based progress of pop assembly, particularly the fast and efficient pop assembly (with organic growth on top!) that synthetically ascended empires currently attain on their well-established colonies. Will we see synth populations race even further ahead of organics, or will it be more balanced, because the low organic population of their planets counts against them for the logistic growth curve? (Maybe you'll want to deliberately avoid assimilating too many organics?) How far behind are psi-ascended empires going to be in their population growth potential, compared to bio-ascended and synth-ascended empires?

The +1 job per district on the mineral hub etc is also a pretty big deal; coupled with the overall reduction in pops, it sounds like geography will be much less of a limit on basic worker jobs for non-Gestalts than it currently is. (Gestalts will also be able to pack an awful lot of miners on a single Hive/Machine World.) It makes sense to free up some districts for industrial districts, but it does mean making specialist rural worlds will be much easier, which reduces the opportunity cost in making Ecumenopolises.

Not sure exactly what has happened with the Habitat mining/energy districts, but if they haven't changed too much, then Void Dwellers origin looks pretty nice now. Reduced influence cost for Habitats is a big deal, as it means significantly more Habitats over the course of the game, and there's nothing to stop you colonizing regular planets as well (although you probably want to do it with a non-primary species). Have the quirks in the Void Dweller pop traits been ironed out?
 
  • 11Like
  • 1
Reactions:

Andy_Dandy

General
56 Badges
Jan 20, 2007
2.256
477
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Rome Gold
  • Sword of the Stars
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Europa Universalis: Rome Collectors Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
I'm worried about the impact of the Industrial district on Ring Worlds

Yeah. Not sure why Ringworlds need to have industrail districts at all. You can produce enough on planets, ecumenopolises and habitats.

I guess the only reason is to give the Scattered Ring some alloy and consumer goods production from the get go, but couldn't the Arcane Generator give a small amount of alloys and consumer goods? As small as possible because Ringworld origin has no problems colonising other planets, unlike for instance Lifeseeded, (and already get alot of ressources for free via some free district upkeeps - while Lifeseeded has to use 3 building slots + 3 workers to exploit their "free" ressource sites). No reason whatsoever to not give the Ringworld origin some challenges as well - it is extremely strong as it is.

NB! More districts for the Ringworld origin might nerf it a bit hopefully - but depends on how many districts the Arcane Generator now supports. In any case; more districts will make Ringworlds more flexible.
 
Last edited:
  • 17
  • 2Like
  • 1Haha
Reactions:

Tech Noir Synth

Lt. General
23 Badges
Dec 15, 2018
1.415
2.045
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Magicka: Wizard Wars Founder Wizard
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
We’ve also changed a few buildings to have new or additional features, such as the Spawning Pool and Clone Vats, which have had their Pop Growth modifiers replaced with the new Organic Pop Assembly. This fills the same slot on the planet as Robotic Pop Assembly, so generally you’ll want to pick one or the other. (Clone Vats also picked up a food upkeep cost to represent simple materials to break down.)


Yay, you did the thing which you announced in a dev diary before 2.2! *claps*

The pop changes sound promising. After all the community has been constantly criticising the old pop growth system. I'm very interested in how it will turn out to be. Maybe Hiveminds will be able to compete with non-Gestalt empires who assemble robots now in terms of pop growth? Maybe Synth Ascension won't overshadow everything in the game by both pop growth and pop efficiency?

Overall very nice changes. Again you are going to rework a fundamental part of this game. So please, keep balance in mind!!

We do not want another "Robot simulator" game like Stellaris was after 2.3, when Machine Empires and especially Driven Assimilators had so insane amounts of pop growth, that it made all other empires obsolete.

We hope that you are going to carefully tinker with pop growth and keep some of the uniqueness of empires, like Hiveminds having very high Organic pop growth but no access to Robots.

We’ve also done a minor update to the Authority bonuses that seemed a little bit weak.

You know whats also weak? Gestalt rulers! Because they have no agendas and their rulers never gain any traits! Apparently Gestalt rulers used to get traits, but at some point you simply took that away, with no replacement.

This is just another annoying functionality in which Gestalts are a gimped version of normal empires, for no reason. So I will ask you again:

Add an ability for Gestalt players to freely select an Agenda, lasting for 20 or so years and change it or keep it every 20 years.

Add a choice for players to choose between traits when the main Gestalt ruler levels up. Something like at level 3,6,9. Gestalt players are missing out on crucual bonuses like a 10% research speed, or 10% mineral output from Agendas and ruler traits like increased exp gain, or decreased building cost, or decreased ship cost.

This will give Gestalts much needed customization options.
 
  • 18Like
  • 6
  • 2
Reactions:

GnoSIS

Major
22 Badges
Jan 27, 2009
582
944
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Warlock 2: Wrath of the Nagas
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Surviving Mars
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Surviving Mars: Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Warlock 2: The Exiled
  • Victoria 2
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
Wait a second ... can you not actually cheese that quite easily with vassals? Like say you have an emprie with 2 sectors. Tehn you conquer stuff off of another empire and put it in a new sector. You release one of your initial sectors as a vassal and start building up your new sector. Rinse and repeat.
Yes, and this is a nice applications of Vassals! Unless they get a make-over.

Alternatively, they might use the pop count of vasslas added into your pop count for growth? And the reverse for the vassal as well?
 
  • 1
Reactions:

Mealya

Second Lieutenant
13 Badges
Mar 18, 2020
119
518
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
An Ecumenopolis still has an extremely high carrying capacity so is excellent for population growth, and is also quite effective at producing both jobs and housing from a single district type. It's still borderline OP, don't worry.

Well if it is... I'm looking forward to it ! Thx for the answer. :)

Since the pops are having a big rework now. I'm very curious about the impacts on the synth empires... Will they still able to have a crazy speed on their robots assembly ? xD
 
  • 2Like
Reactions:

Spartakus

I'm Spartakus
49 Badges
Feb 22, 2018
933
2.635
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • BATTLETECH
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • BATTLETECH - Initiate of the Order
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Shadowrun: Hong Kong
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
Some great changes overall. One thing deeply worries me though:
These experiments have generally revolved around modifying the growth (or assembly required) for pops as an empire’s population grows, with some variants trying a logistic pop growth (where growth follows an S-shaped curve as planets develop, based on a carrying capacity of a planet). These experiments have reduced the end date pop count to somewhere around one half of the old numbers with the expected performance improvements.

Organic pops will follow a curve where they begin at standard population growth, increase growth as the approach a midpoint between population and the planetary carrying capacity, then slow down to zero as they reach the top of the curve. Pop Assembly, on the other hand, is generally slow but consistent. The biggest change is that producing a new pop no longer costs a static amount of pop growth - it increases as the empire population does.

I think this change tackles the problem of pop numbers but it drastically increases a different one: That settling a planet is always good because planets produce pops!
Now with this change you not only still want planets as pop generators, you added a nother micro-intense meta where you also want all your planets at the sweet spot in the S-curve to maximize overall pop growth.

Please reconsider this, we absolutely need to grow pops per empire and not per planet. There is also a similar effect with purging, as is, resettling to a purging planet makes sense as one planet only purges one pop at a time.
 
  • 19Like
  • 7
  • 4
Reactions:

Spaceception

Lt. General
11 Badges
Jan 25, 2018
1.443
831
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Stellaris: Necroids
So ships will also become cheaper? Because less pops means less resource output.
Honestly, I wouldn't mind if the added cost became a feature rather than a problem. Then you could introduce exclusive tech's for quantity vs quality, and either make ships cheaper and faster to field at the expense of less damage/slots per ship, or increase the cost of your ships (and limit its size), and introduce new hull techs to pack more damage/slots per ship, and gain experience faster.
 
  • 8Like
  • 5
Reactions:

klingonadmiral

Field Marshal
49 Badges
Sep 15, 2014
2.565
3.142
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Victoria 2
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
OTOH, if overall resource output across the galaxy decreased a bit, it might reduce the need many people have to spike up tech costs and crisis strength by making their relative strength to the baseline larger.

Consider that BBs are already the latgame meta. And in my current game, I smoked an Awakened Empire while losing four (out of ~120) battleships. I also see no real reason to go to war before BBs because all other units are just so bad. Making it harder to replace losses will only further disincentivice expansion.

Keep in mind that in the game I mentioned I had exactly zero soldier jobs to provide naval cap, it all came from anchorages and a strategic coordination center.

So the pop changes will not affect naval capacity at all, but decrease the ability to absorb losses. Which means BBs will become even more over-centralizing.
 
  • 7
  • 2
  • 1Like
Reactions: