Hi everyone!

Way back in Dev Diary 152, we discussed some planetary changes that we experimented with during summer 2019. At the time, we decided that while we learned a lot from the experiment, they required significant additional refinement before being something we wanted to incorporate into Stellaris.

Summer 2020 gave us the additional time we needed to revive these (and some other) experiments. Our primary objectives were to reduce the mid to late game micromanagement burden and provide quality of life improvements, including generally making the prebuilding of planets more viable, making planetary automation reliable enough to be trusted in the mid to late game, and making dealing with unemployment and pops easier.

We’ll be talking about these subjects in multiple dev diaries over the next couple of months.

Industrial Districts

Planet View Showing Industrial Districts

Azure Chalice is… er, was... a lovely place.

The planet view has shifted things around a bit and now supports the display of up to six district types. Most planets will have five district types available. This extra real estate could also be of special interest to modders.

The new brownish-orange district next to the City District is the revived Industrial District. Industrial Districts are treated as urban districts (and as such are not limited by planetary features), but rather than the Laborers that split their output from the original experiment, we’ve decided to have the districts provide regular empires one Artisan and one Metallurgist job. Gestalts have either two Foundry Drones or Fabricators as appropriate.

Industrial District tooltip (regular empire)

Work, work, work.

Factories and Foundries will still exist but are now planet unique, with the first tier building adding 2 jobs to the planet just like the old versions. The upgraded versions, however, will now add either 1 or 2 jobs of the appropriate type to each Industrial District on the planet.

Ecumenopoli will retain their specialized districts, but can be boosted by the Foundry or Factory buildings. The number of jobs per district on ecumenopoli have been adjusted somewhat as part of an overall economic balance pass. Since Industrial Districts are considered urban, a planet with a mix of City and Industrial Districts can be paved over and turned into an Ecumenopolis using the Arcology Project decision.

Since districts are now much more critical to the development of your civilization, the average size of homeworlds has been increased by 2, and as an additional side effect, the Mastery of Nature Ascension Perk may also become a bit more desirable.

Building Slots

I’m sure you’ve already noticed from the above screenshot, Building Slots no longer list population counts. Instead of relying on population, they're opened up by increasing the infrastructure of the planet. This is generally done by building City Districts (or their equivalent) or by upgrading the colony's Capital building. As a pleasant side effect of this, your buildings will no longer get ruined when a pop gets resettled, ritually killed, or eaten by mutants.
City District tooltip
Planetary Administration tooltip

Build up that infrastructure.

Two new technologies that unlock additional Building Slots have also been added, Ceramo-Metal Infrastructure and Durasteel Infrastructure. They represent the civilian adoption of military technology, and as such require some government techs and the associated armor technologies. The Adaptability tradition tree, for those that have it, still has a tech that grants a Building Slot as well.

As specialized and advanced worlds, Ecumenopoli, Ring Worlds, Hive Worlds, and Machine Worlds start with all of their building slots unlocked.

Habitats are intended to feel a bit cramped, so while Habitation Modules do not open up Building Slots, the Voidborne Ascension Perk will continue to grant two Building Slots to those that choose to embrace living in space.

The MegaCorps out there may ask “but what about our Branch Offices?” - we’ve got you covered.

Locked Branch Office building slot tooltip

Insider Trading. Institutionalized corruption exploited by the upper classes, or just greasing the wheels of trade?

Branch Offices will tie their slots to the level of the colony’s capital building. For example, a Planetary Administration building will grant one Branch Office Building Slot, a Planetary Capital will grant two, and a System Capital-Complex would grant three. If the target empire has the Insider Trading tradition, you’ll have one extra Branch Office Building Slot. (This may grant you a Branch Office building even on newly colonized worlds, if your business plan expects it to be profitable.)

But Why?

By decoupling the building unlocks from population growth, it makes it much easier to “prebuild” a planet to varying degrees. It removes some of the tedium of waiting for that last pop to finish growing before a slot unlocks, as well as the negative experience that occurred when a critical pop moved or died right at the wrong time. This change went through many iterations - in one of them the rural and industrial districts added "fractional" slots, in another the capital buildings gave more slots at each upgrade. The combination of having both City Districts and the Capital Building contributing to the slots, along with the additional techs, finally felt right. It's nice when even a newly founded Colony possesses at least one open building slot since it lets you immediately begin construction of a Spawning Pool or other high value building right away.

Moving the essential secondary resources of Consumer Goods and Alloys to districts frees up the building slots a little bit and creates a greater differentiation between heavily urbanized or industrial planets and resource generating colonies. Qualitatively we also felt that it "feels nice" to be getting more of your physical resources from the district level, leaving the Building Slots for more unique and specialized needs.

Both of these changes also happen to make some planetary automation decisions a little easier - your Tech Worlds should clearly build a mix of City and Industrial districts, for instance, to make room for Research Labs as well as to provide the Consumer Goods needed to pay for them. We do recognize that it may be difficult - or even impossible - to unlock all Building Slots on a planet that has not been urbanized, but those resource generating planets often do not have quite as strong a need for a large number of buildings.

Ideally in the mid to late game you could colonize a planet, set the colony designation you want for the planet, turn on automation, and reasonably expect the planet to be in decent shape - and doing what you told it to - the next time you look at it. (In the early game it's certainly possible, but your empire's economy may not be stable enough to support dedicated worlds and your colonies may be better off with direct caretaking.)

We have a few other experiments that are still ongoing that affect the relationship between urbanized vs. less developed planets that are not entirely conclusive yet. If they prove out we'll discuss them later on in this series of diaries. Our current plan for next week's diary is to talk more about the automated colony management overhaul as well as the automatic and manual resettlement of pops.

As a reminder, we have an ongoing feedback thread related to AI improvements we have in beta on the stellaris_test branch. We'd love to get more people on it and telling us what they think about them. (Please note that 2.8.1 is an optional beta patch. You have to manually opt in to access it. Go to your Steam library, right click on Stellaris -> Properties -> betas tab -> select "stellaris_test" branch.)

Thanks!
 

Eladrin

Stellaris Game Designer
Apr 4, 2019
286
7.222
www.paradoxplaza.com
And I'm still curious, what are your thoughts on shifting Industrial district jobs with planetary decisions instead of planet designations?
Between the two I prefer using designations to handle things if possible, partially because of UX issues surrounding decisions.

And what can we expect from Ecumonopolis and Ringworld districts and jobs?
I'll likely talk about those in next week's dev diary.
 
  • 6Like
  • 1
Reactions:

Lorenerd11

Major
14 Badges
Mar 25, 2020
612
1.763
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Necroids
Between the two I prefer using designations to handle things if possible, partially because of UX issues surrounding decisions.
As others pointed out though, using designations would make players unable to shift jobs on worlds not specifically dedicated for Industrial production (e.g. Tech-Worls), or on the Empire Capital.

It could also create unexpected consumer goods deficits if planet designation is automatically changed to Forge World, possibly leaving players in a situation where they have no idea what happened to their consumer goods production.

Decisions would have neither of these issues.

I'll likely talk about those in next week's dev diary.
Alright, looking forward to it! :D
 
Last edited:
  • 1
Reactions:

Thinghunter

Sergeant
73 Badges
Apr 17, 2015
54
93
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Surviving Mars
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Prison Architect
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Victoria 2
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Semper Fi
Hi guys,
reading this dev diary & the long thread gives me several ideas aswell:
  1. Remove the Crystal Miner, Translucer & Gas Extractor jobs & their corresponding buildings. Instead:
    If a planet has deposits for Exotic Gases, Rare Crystals & or Valatile Motes, the planet gets additional Mining District Slots & the production of Miners is changed so that the Miners produce an additional small amount of those special ressources (that amount could be depending on the size of the corresponding deposit).

  2. Merge the Chemist, Gas Refiner & Translucer to an Industrial Worker job responsible for converting minerals into more specialized ressources. Determining what is produced by that job could be done via an empire wide output ratio (e.g. by making a slider or ascertaining the direct values). This would be in my opinion work very well because every job takes has the same input/output ratio & matrerials. You would save 2 buildings + Jobs & you would be able to tailor the production directly to your needs.

  3. If you want to be very bold, merge the Artisan & the Metallurgist and decide the output ratio by a slider (empire wide/sector wide or planet wide).

  4. It may very well possible to merge the jobs from changes 2 & 3 with a unified slider for all output so the number of jobs & buildings get reduced again. Reducing the number of jobs would make it easier to govern an empire for both players & the AI without reducing the depth of the gameplay as you create as many Artisan jobs as you have to, but as many Metallurgists as possible in any given situation (the same is true for the Chemist, Gas Refiner & Translucer which get created as few as possible). Last but not least, less jobs may very well increase the game performance substancially.

  5. Create districts for bureaucrats, soldiers, scientists & co. for empires with certain civics. One example could be that an empire using the Technocracy civic gets a district providing scientists. This would make empires play completely different depending on the choosen civics and reflect the fact that e.g. for Technocracies science is as basic as food or minerals.

  6. Alternatively to 5, those civics could replace 1 (or 2 with the respective perk in the Prosperity Tradition tree) Clerk jobs in a city district (or more in a City Segment/Residental Arcology)
 

Pyzayt

Captain
14 Badges
Aug 5, 2019
348
219
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
I realised something last night during a conversation about this change; with the reduced number of building slots, FE Capitals wont have enough building slots for their current setups. What will happen to FE homeworlds if this goes ahead?
 
  • 2
  • 1
Reactions:

mial42

Lt. General
18 Badges
Sep 28, 2020
1.214
2.451
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
Having 11 tier 3 foundries also requires 11 mote refineries on another world (actually less due to excess from bonus production and reduction of upkeep, but still). If we restrict ourselves to only using that planet, then you'd need 5 refineries and 6 T3 foundries, giving only 48 jobs... the exact same amount you get from districts. Now admittedly you'd get some motes from space deposits or offload the production to another world, and in the new model you'll need a district or two to be a city in order to house the extra workers, but it's not the massive disparity that your post described.
There's 0 reason to restrict yourself to using the one planet. If you stipulate that the minerals must also come from the planet, then all of a sudden big worlds become even better, but you wouldn't, because that's not how the Stellaris economy works. Bigger, rural planets currently have excess building slots; you off load the refineries to one (or a habitat, which functions similarly) somewhere else. Currently, there's a nice congruence: Specialists require city districts for housing, and small planets need city districts to support large populations, so they go well together. The new system breaks that link for forge and factory worlds.
But that isn't actually the reason why I said that small planets would be industry focused. It's to answer the question: "What do I do when my planet gets full?". In the old system you could upgrade buildings, offloading the mote production to large rural worlds with plenty of free building slots. And to be fair, you can still do this as a research world or bureaucrat world. But if you do it with industrial districts, then the time you fill up should be just about the time you unlock the Arcology Project. If you unlock it early you can just build some empty districts, if you unlock it later resettle some pops or build some job producing buildings. Now your size 12 planet can support 120 jobs base, plus however many more you can get from the foundry/factory. Yes, eventually you will fill that up to, but at that point you should have another ecumenopolis up and coming as well.

While larger planets do get more benefit out being ecumenopoli, a good player will unlock the AP far earlier then these large planets fill up. Add to the fact that Ecumenopoli are no longer necessary for spamming metallurgists, and I think smaller planets will become the choice for a first ecumenopolis.
If anything, I think the reverse will be true, and bigger planets will become even more dominant over small ones for ecumenepoli. Right now, the process for readying a planet for the Arcology project significantly reduces its economic output and development potential, since you have to spend all the queue time building useless city districts. This makes smaller planets a good choice for an early arcology, since they have less district-based economic output anyways. With this change, the process for making an arcology will be doing what you'd be doing anyways on a forge/factory world; building industrial districts. There's no development potential loss for this, and so you can start doing it much earlier. By the time you get the arcology project, the upkeep and build costs for regular districts are trivial, so there's nothing stopping you from building 10-12 extra industrial districts on a big planet ahead of time (unlike currently, where building a dozen extra city districts hurts output significantly because you can't build or upgrade the actually productive buildings in the process). There's absolutely no reason to wait for a planet to fill up to do the arcology project when resettlement exists. The smart play with the new system would be to just pre-build industrial districts on a big world, convert it, and resettle pops from the smaller planets to it.
 

mial42

Lt. General
18 Badges
Sep 28, 2020
1.214
2.451
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
I am ever present and try to read as much of what the community here says as I can, provided it's constructive :)
Can I ask what major issues the change to industrial districts will fix? This change will cause a bunch of major issues, so I question what major issues it's solving that couldn't be solved some other way.
 
  • 1
Reactions:

steinernein

Corporal
33 Badges
Jun 11, 2016
32
12
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Sword of the Stars II
  • Majesty 2
  • Magicka
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Semper Fi
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall - Revelations
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Shadowrun: Hong Kong
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Warlock 2: The Exiled
  • The Showdown Effect
I guess they finally realized they should've just done what the original Master of Orion did which was basically pure sliders.

So now it's just districts instead of sliders which makes managing the AI much easier - hopefully, maybe.
 

mial42

Lt. General
18 Badges
Sep 28, 2020
1.214
2.451
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
I guess they finally realized they should've just done what the original Master of Orion did which was basically pure sliders.

So now it's just districts instead of sliders which makes managing the AI much easier - hopefully, maybe.
Except they're not doing that. They're only doing it for industrial districts, which is the area where it's least important or helpful.
 
  • 1
Reactions:
Jan 14, 2021
2
0
You know, one of the big problems of research world and arcologies is the dire need of special resources, which consume 1 building slot for generating only 2 to 3.8 unit (with abundance + satisfied faction) and provide only 1 job. In this new building system, there will be much less building slot to generate them, and that will cause a pretty big problem. Can you do something about it, like allow upgrade for these building (only the manufacturing one is fine, the mine should stay as it is)?
 

HighChanceOfRai

Second Lieutenant
67 Badges
Jan 17, 2015
118
394
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Darkest Hour
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Mount & Blade: With Fire and Sword
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
You know, one of the big problems of research world and arcologies is the dire need of special resources, which consume 1 building slot for generating only 2 to 3.8 unit (with abundance + satisfied faction) and provide only 1 job. In this new building system, there will be much less building slot to generate them, and that will cause a pretty big problem. Can you do something about it, like allow upgrade for these building (only the manufacturing one is fine, the mine should stay as it is)?

True, but you wont be needing those building slots for consumer goods or alloys
 

Tamwin5

General
20 Badges
Dec 3, 2017
2.444
2.637
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
You know, one of the big problems of research world and arcologies is the dire need of special resources, which consume 1 building slot for generating only 2 to 3.8 unit (with abundance + satisfied faction) and provide only 1 job. In this new building system, there will be much less building slot to generate them, and that will cause a pretty big problem. Can you do something about it, like allow upgrade for these building (only the manufacturing one is fine, the mine should stay as it is)?

I actually think that the mine needs to be buffed, while the manufacturing should stay as is. An upgraded building is/will be twice as good as the base version, in exchange for one rare resource upkeep. As such, each rare resource is effectively a building slot. A building which takes up a slot but generated two resources is net +1 building slot, or +2 if you have the bonuses to get up to 3 production.

In the current version the best place for refineries was on rural worlds, as they had plenty of pops but not very many buildings that need to be built. In the upcoming version, with pops no longer directly giving building slots, the best places for refineries will be ecumenopoli and habitats, I suspect.
 

Mímisbrunnr

Major
14 Badges
Mar 1, 2018
686
1.791
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
Out of curiosity, Devs (@Eladrin, @Alfray Stryke , etc), are there any significant changes to the buildings or tech that you showed us in the dev diaries for the new economic system since you showed them off in early November? I'd be particularly interested if there are any changes that you would like to share that were made due to player feedback in this thread (and the insight into the thought processes of design involving incorporating them might also be interesting).

By the way, have you done anything with the Economy of Scale tech line? As has been pointed out, due to how additive modifiers work at least in the current version of Stellaris, the techs as they worked when last shown to us, would have increased raw production while significantly decreasing efficiency, which really goes against what you would tend to expect an economy of scale doing. It was suggested at the time that multiplicative effects on throughput might capture the intended effect better while avoiding this perhaps unintentional negative side-effect.
 

Tamwin5

General
20 Badges
Dec 3, 2017
2.444
2.637
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
Out of curiosity, Devs (@Eladrin, @Alfray Stryke , etc), are there any significant changes to the buildings or tech that you showed us in the dev diaries for the new economic system since you showed them off in early November? I'd be particularly interested if there are any changes that you would like to share that were made due to player feedback in this thread (and the insight into the thought processes of design involving incorporating them might also be interesting).

By the way, have you done anything with the Economy of Scale tech line? As has been pointed out, due to how additive modifiers work at least in the current version of Stellaris, the techs as they worked when last shown to us, would have increased raw production while significantly decreasing efficiency, which really goes against what you would tend to expect an economy of scale doing. It was suggested at the time that multiplicative effects on throughput might capture the intended effect better while avoiding this perhaps unintentional negative side-effect.
I did the math out in another thread. Even with ridiculous late game bonuses of +300% production to miners and researchers, it's still beneficial. For more reasonable situations or for other resources which don't get those insane bonuses, it's even more so. It's slightly decreased efficiency for decently increased throughput, and considering that pops are the major limiter in Stellaris throughput is what you want.
 
  • 2
  • 1
Reactions: