Stellaris Dev Diary #190 : Leading Economic Indicators

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Eladrin

Stellaris Game Director
Paradox Staff
Apr 4, 2019
836
28.978
www.paradoxplaza.com
Hi everyone!

Way back in Dev Diary 152, we discussed some planetary changes that we experimented with during summer 2019. At the time, we decided that while we learned a lot from the experiment, they required significant additional refinement before being something we wanted to incorporate into Stellaris.

Summer 2020 gave us the additional time we needed to revive these (and some other) experiments. Our primary objectives were to reduce the mid to late game micromanagement burden and provide quality of life improvements, including generally making the prebuilding of planets more viable, making planetary automation reliable enough to be trusted in the mid to late game, and making dealing with unemployment and pops easier.

We’ll be talking about these subjects in multiple dev diaries over the next couple of months.

Industrial Districts

Planet View Showing Industrial Districts

Azure Chalice is… er, was... a lovely place.

The planet view has shifted things around a bit and now supports the display of up to six district types. Most planets will have five district types available. This extra real estate could also be of special interest to modders.

The new brownish-orange district next to the City District is the revived Industrial District. Industrial Districts are treated as urban districts (and as such are not limited by planetary features), but rather than the Laborers that split their output from the original experiment, we’ve decided to have the districts provide regular empires one Artisan and one Metallurgist job. Gestalts have either two Foundry Drones or Fabricators as appropriate.

Industrial District tooltip (regular empire)

Work, work, work.

Factories and Foundries will still exist but are now planet unique, with the first tier building adding 2 jobs to the planet just like the old versions. The upgraded versions, however, will now add either 1 or 2 jobs of the appropriate type to each Industrial District on the planet.

Ecumenopoli will retain their specialized districts, but can be boosted by the Foundry or Factory buildings. The number of jobs per district on ecumenopoli have been adjusted somewhat as part of an overall economic balance pass. Since Industrial Districts are considered urban, a planet with a mix of City and Industrial Districts can be paved over and turned into an Ecumenopolis using the Arcology Project decision.

Since districts are now much more critical to the development of your civilization, the average size of homeworlds has been increased by 2, and as an additional side effect, the Mastery of Nature Ascension Perk may also become a bit more desirable.

Building Slots

I’m sure you’ve already noticed from the above screenshot, Building Slots no longer list population counts. Instead of relying on population, they're opened up by increasing the infrastructure of the planet. This is generally done by building City Districts (or their equivalent) or by upgrading the colony's Capital building. As a pleasant side effect of this, your buildings will no longer get ruined when a pop gets resettled, ritually killed, or eaten by mutants.
City District tooltip
Planetary Administration tooltip

Build up that infrastructure.

Two new technologies that unlock additional Building Slots have also been added, Ceramo-Metal Infrastructure and Durasteel Infrastructure. They represent the civilian adoption of military technology, and as such require some government techs and the associated armor technologies. The Adaptability tradition tree, for those that have it, still has a tech that grants a Building Slot as well.

As specialized and advanced worlds, Ecumenopoli, Ring Worlds, Hive Worlds, and Machine Worlds start with all of their building slots unlocked.

Habitats are intended to feel a bit cramped, so while Habitation Modules do not open up Building Slots, the Voidborne Ascension Perk will continue to grant two Building Slots to those that choose to embrace living in space.

The MegaCorps out there may ask “but what about our Branch Offices?” - we’ve got you covered.

Locked Branch Office building slot tooltip

Insider Trading. Institutionalized corruption exploited by the upper classes, or just greasing the wheels of trade?

Branch Offices will tie their slots to the level of the colony’s capital building. For example, a Planetary Administration building will grant one Branch Office Building Slot, a Planetary Capital will grant two, and a System Capital-Complex would grant three. If the target empire has the Insider Trading tradition, you’ll have one extra Branch Office Building Slot. (This may grant you a Branch Office building even on newly colonized worlds, if your business plan expects it to be profitable.)

But Why?

By decoupling the building unlocks from population growth, it makes it much easier to “prebuild” a planet to varying degrees. It removes some of the tedium of waiting for that last pop to finish growing before a slot unlocks, as well as the negative experience that occurred when a critical pop moved or died right at the wrong time. This change went through many iterations - in one of them the rural and industrial districts added "fractional" slots, in another the capital buildings gave more slots at each upgrade. The combination of having both City Districts and the Capital Building contributing to the slots, along with the additional techs, finally felt right. It's nice when even a newly founded Colony possesses at least one open building slot since it lets you immediately begin construction of a Spawning Pool or other high value building right away.

Moving the essential secondary resources of Consumer Goods and Alloys to districts frees up the building slots a little bit and creates a greater differentiation between heavily urbanized or industrial planets and resource generating colonies. Qualitatively we also felt that it "feels nice" to be getting more of your physical resources from the district level, leaving the Building Slots for more unique and specialized needs.

Both of these changes also happen to make some planetary automation decisions a little easier - your Tech Worlds should clearly build a mix of City and Industrial districts, for instance, to make room for Research Labs as well as to provide the Consumer Goods needed to pay for them. We do recognize that it may be difficult - or even impossible - to unlock all Building Slots on a planet that has not been urbanized, but those resource generating planets often do not have quite as strong a need for a large number of buildings.

Ideally in the mid to late game you could colonize a planet, set the colony designation you want for the planet, turn on automation, and reasonably expect the planet to be in decent shape - and doing what you told it to - the next time you look at it. (In the early game it's certainly possible, but your empire's economy may not be stable enough to support dedicated worlds and your colonies may be better off with direct caretaking.)

We have a few other experiments that are still ongoing that affect the relationship between urbanized vs. less developed planets that are not entirely conclusive yet. If they prove out we'll discuss them later on in this series of diaries. Our current plan for next week's diary is to talk more about the automated colony management overhaul as well as the automatic and manual resettlement of pops.

As a reminder, we have an ongoing feedback thread related to AI improvements we have in beta on the stellaris_test branch. We'd love to get more people on it and telling us what they think about them. (Please note that 2.8.1 is an optional beta patch. You have to manually opt in to access it. Go to your Steam library, right click on Stellaris -> Properties -> betas tab -> select "stellaris_test" branch.)

Thanks!
 
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Does this also apply to Earth and Mars with the Sol start?
Yes, the prescripted starts will have increased planet sizes as well.

Although this may be complicated to implement, can I strongly suggest that the availability of building slots take into account queued districts as well as those presently existing?
It currently doesn't support this sort of behavior, so right now you would have to circle back around after a bit. I can totally see the benefit, but I suspect that it would have some unintended consequences to the build queue when you cancel construction and things like that. I'll play with it a bit but I expect it to explode. :D

is it possible to shift production away from consumer goods and mostly or soley to Alloys?
There are production policies that you can shift between Alloys and Consumer Goods. (Which we've increased the magnitudes on.) You can turn off your Consumer Goods production entirely if desired by shutting down the Artisan jobs.
 
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Although this may be complicated to implement, can I strongly suggest that the availability of building slots take into account queued districts as well as those presently existing?
It currently doesn't support this sort of behavior, so right now you would have to circle back around after a bit. I can totally see the benefit, but I suspect that it would have some unintended consequences to the build queue when you cancel construction and things like that. I'll play with it a bit but I expect it to explode. :D
From a QA perspective, I 100% expect this will explode in some interesting ways. :D
 
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Is there a planetary decision that makes these districts fully industrial or metallurgical?
Not currently. It could be interesting though, I'll consider it, or maybe work it into the Civilian/Militarized Economy policy. (I'd rather you not have to slog through every planet any time your needs change.)

I also feel this could apply to research, where you can focus on a certain field, and science labs provide more of that job, or you keep it the same, and it just adds normal jobs. Maybe something for modders?
One of the experimental iterations we did actually had research districts too, but we decided to keep those as buildings following a general rule of tier one and two physical resource production came from districts, but special resources and intangibles came from buildings. (Yeah, habitats and ecumenopoli don't follow that general rule entirely.)

So... In practice, what can we expect? By the total number of buildings available in the habitats with the voidborn perk ?
Your Habitat Central Control counts as a tier 2 capital, so it will open up two additional slots. Voidborne brings you to four. Techs give you two more for six. (Plus a seventh from traditions if you're an antisocial Adaptability empire type.) That said, you won't have more than one factory or foundry on a habitat anymore, and there are a few other buildings that are getting tweaked.
 
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Is this going to be a general trend for buildings? (E.g. Research Labs adding researcher jobs to cities) or is this just for the Foundry / Factory?
I added it to the Energy Nexus, Food Processing Plant, and Mineral Purification Hub today.

Will we get some more variations with Habitat, Ringworld, and Ecumenopolis districts?
Habitats and Ring Worlds get appropriate Industrial districts. Ecumenopoli will retain their specialized districts.

I was just thinking about this. Then you'd just need 2 buildings for a decent alloy or CG world! 6 districts would net you 24 jobs, that's pretty good, and it frees up space for other building types, or negates some of the need to unlock all buildings for your industry.
There are fewer building slots with this system, so it's nice if they have a strong impact when you build them.
 
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Oh that's a very nice buff. And building that applies to habitats I presume?
Yup. (The Food Processing Plant also affects Hydroponic Farms.)

One of the biggest benefits to Ring worlds and Ecunopoli was the districts that built alloys/consumer goods (which were so much easier and beneficial which is why I'm excited by this change). However with it going standard, I do feel some of what makes those two world types special is gone. Is there any plans to tweak ring world or ecunopolis districts to use a unique job that produces a combination of resources or something to keep them distinct and exciting?
Ecumenopoli retain their specialized districts making it easier to focus on one or the other, and have more jobs per district than regular worlds. (Though if we have the policies skew the job count more we may need to revisit these.) Ring Worlds will have massive Industrial Segments.

The new system encourages keeping planets rural thanks to the new industrial districts, but such low-pop planets would hit their pop cap quicker and remain a source of pain as they continually over fill.
We'll talk a bit about dealing with overpopulation next week. (As well as a dedicated diary later, depending on how the other experiments go.)
 
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@Eladrin Are there any plans for changes to the special resource buildings for motes, gas and crystals? Actual there are no upgrades for this kind of buildings and they need a lot of space for a few (very important) jobs.
No major changes at this time.

Still I have total faith in you guys. :eek:
:eek:

I will have fun breaking this with modding.
Looking forward to it.

No, this is probably going to need a lot of testing
This is a huge understatement. :D

I'm slightly confused about how Research Labs (or other similar buildings) add jobs now. So are we saying that the Tier 1 Research Labs adds two researcher jobs, but then the Tier 2 Research Labs adds an extra job per City District? Or am I misunderstanding? And is this also how other buldings behave (ie. Commercial)?
Research Labs are unaffected by this change. As Research is an intangible resource it'll be generated the same way as before. (Primarily through buildings.) The big change here is that the tier 2 physical resources (Consumer Goods and Alloys) will be coming mostly from Industrial Districts.
 
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May i suggest that Functional Architecture be changed to either also unlock building slots, or only unlock them?
I like that. If you swap it out it'll ruin buildings, but that's an active decision so acceptable.

Several people mentioned megacorps and how they don't really want to produce consumer goods (because they get enough from trade), and I would like to add rogue servitors to that. They need some CG (so more than other gestalts, that need zero), but much, much less than normal empires. So how will that work?
Rogue Servitors don't generate Consumer Goods at their Industrial Districts by default since they're gestalt empires. They can build Factories to increase their Consumer Good production (and at the higher tiers add Artisan Drone jobs to the Industrial Districts), and the buildings for the Bio-Trophies have an Artisan Drone job.

This dev diary gets me moister than a blorg's gripping appendage.
This post right here, cleanse it with atomic fire please.

The other ideas in the post are intereting, however.

Currently the planetary designations don't directly affect jobs, but it's something that could be considered.

This could also be nice to handle 'building creep' where more and more types of buildings are introduced that you want.
For a while we had done away with the basic tier 1 Factory and Foundry, but found that it was better to retain to simple +2 jobs version so you could build it earlier in your planet's lifecycle and upgrade it later when you get the appropriate techs. (It tremendously helped the automation scripts when we restored the basic versions.)
 
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Hold up.

You're saying you don't want people "slogging through every planet" to click an option to set their production preference, but you do want people to slog through every planet to manually turn off individual jobs? How is that not much worse than simply having a planetary decision that turns Alloy jobs into Consumer jobs?
I don't actually expect people to turn off Artisan jobs manually. In my testing, I've never felt that I was being flooded with Consumer Goods - between having a 1:3 ratio of Artisans to Metallurgists if I wanted, the Militarized Economic policy, and other economic changes, it's not once been a major issue for me. The ecumenopolis is also a thing if you really want super specialized production.

Enough people seem to believe that they'll drown in Consumer Goods that I'm going to look at possible ways to avoid it. (Whether that's empire policies, planetary designations, or something else I can't say yet.)

Well maybe if you provided your people with social welfare that wouldn't be a problem, authoritarian tyrant!
Utopian Abundance for all!

It would be nice if the production of the industrial district could be tied to planetary designation.

On any other world the industrial district produces 1 Artisan and 1 Metallurgist jobs

On Foundry worlds, the industrial district produces 2 Alloy Jobs instead, but the consumer goods building would still add Artisan jobs per district.

On Industrial worlds, the industrial district produces 2 Artisan Jobs instead, but the alloy building would still add Metallurgist jobs per district.
Something similar to this is one of the things I'm considering. I'm not totally sold on it since I wanted to keep the specialized districts of the ecumenopolis as something special, but it seems like the most intuitive solution.

Will the habitat industrial district get more workers then the base two (like the mining/energy/science districts)? Or will it be slightly inferior at only 2?
They are slightly inferior at only two. (But do give 3 housing like the other habitat districts.)

Will the percentage bonus still be in place, or will it just give more jobs?
The percentage bonus currently still exists on the Energy Nexus/etc. I only added the jobs to them yesterday, so the bonuses might not stick through testing.

Will the artisans currently given by the commercial segment be changed at all?
There have been changes to Ring World segments (like this one that you correctly guessed - it's now all Clerks and Merchants), as well as some changes to Shattered Ring.

How do these Changes interact with the Agrarian Idyll Civic?
Agrarian Idyll still functions as described. Industrial Districts are neither City nor Rural districts, so they are unmodified.

Like the Void Dwellers, you'll be able to unlock a number of Building Slots by upgrading your capital building and gaining technologies. Unlike them, you'll have the option to despoil your pristine wilderness with City Districts if you want more.

Have you considered that 2 foundry drones or fabricators could be too strong in comparism to bio empires who need addionally consumer goods and get by that less alloys per district.
It's possible. We'll keep an eye on it.
 
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Will the AI be able to use these new districts?
I hope so.

Pheraps a revamp of hydroponic farms would be in order? Like making them worth the space?
While not an amazing buff, the Food Processing Center is currently expected to increase the number of jobs it has.

I think it would make sense to take a cue from HOI and have separate districts for Alloys and CGs. Like how Hearts of Iron IV has a division between Civilian Factories and Industrial Factories. However, you can convert one into the other - so your car factory can, with some retooling, start producing jeeps for the war effort.}
That's sort of what we imagine the Empire's Economic Policy doing - shifting your overall industrial base from one side to the other.
 
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Planetary designations don't have any kind of cooldown, right?
Correct.

By the way, I'm currently leaning strongly towards "The Forge World designation shifts one Artisan over to Metallurgist and Factory World does the opposite" (assuming you actually have jobs of both types - most gestalts won't get this job shifting). It gives enough control that you can pick which behavior you want from different planets and is fairly understandable.

hydroponics farms directly contradict the "doctrine" of districts being primary goods producers and buildings being used for transient ones.
Yes, it's a dirty, dirty exception.

@Alfray Stryke over there is a vocal habitat dweller and will make sure it's still playable. There's been a proposal internally to adjust some of the traditions that don't function for Void Dwellers to make things work better if they end up on the weaker side. We'll continue gathering information before making final decisions.

extra 8 jobs per district
:shifty_eyes:

As part of all of this there's been a bit of an economic balance pass. Building job counts across the board, Ring Worlds and Ecumenopoleis (guess what I learned yesterday from this thread) have been adjusted a bit. When a grenade like this goes off in the economy, nothing remains untouched, and I set off a few just to make sure I kept QA properly entertained.

We have plans to talk about the rest of that in the near future.
 
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I can see those changes impacting Rogue Servitors quite a bit.

Will their industrial district produce alloys+consumer goods, purely alloy, or purely consumer goods?
Will the bio-trophy buildings get scrapped in favor of something like leisure districts? If not, will they have something to allow for extra building slots for them?
Currently we have them producing alloys with their Industrial Districts, but they have access to the Factory line if they want to add Artisan Drone jobs to them. The Organic Sanctuaries also come with an Artisan Drone job.
 
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@Alfray Stryke over there is a vocal habitat dweller and will make sure it's still playable. There's been a proposal internally to adjust some of the traditions that don't function for Void Dwellers to make things work better if they end up on the weaker side. We'll continue gathering information before making final decisions.

That I am.

As part of all of this there's been a bit of an economic balance pass. Building job counts across the board, Ring Worlds and Ecumenopoleis (guess what I learned yesterday from this thread) have been adjusted a bit. When a grenade like this goes off in the economy, nothing remains untouched, and I set off a few just to make sure I kept QA properly entertained.

Yes, a few grenades, don't you mean some high explosives on a surprise timer? ;)
 
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Arent't you afraid these changes to industrial district will totally destroy void dwellers / habitats gameplay ?

As previously stated, I'm personally keeping a close eye on Void Dwllers and have made some suggestions for them for both this and future experiments.

Thanks for the clarification on that. But still, with the same amount of districts a non-gestalt can have 6 total jobs (2 from district, 2 from foundry and 2 from industry) and a gestalt only 4 jobs per district (2 from district and 2 from foundry).

In both cases the max for metallurgists is the same (4), but it does not make sense that non-gestalts fit 2 more jobs in the same space. Also, from a lore perspective gestalts should be better cramming more in the same space.

Some gestalts will have the ability to construct consumer goods factories, which will give artisan jobs to industrial districts.
 
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I did the thing today that we were talking about where the Forge World and Foundry World designations (and habitat equivalents) will now also shift one job between Consumer Goods to Alloys (or vice-versa) for Industrial Districts if possible. I'll play around with that and see how it works out.

1604680684088.png


The phrasing is the Rogue Servitor's fault - they still get two Alloy Drones per Industrial District by default, but if they build the Factory line of buildings they'll be able to shift their added Artisan Drones over. I think this should satisfy the worries about drowning in Consumer Goods.

Can we build industrial districts on the habitats too?
Yes.

1604680225079.png


There should be a way to specialize the planet fully without further clicks. So say if you want to exclusively build alloys, if you set the artisan number to zero, it should stay at zero even when new industrial districts are built.
If the current experiment works out, you'll set it to a Forge World (which you probably should do anyway if it's your Alloy source) and your Industrial Districts will have 2 Metallurgists by default. (With no Artisans.)
 
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Wait, huh? I thought only the jobs created by the Industrial districts could be shifted over. Does this mean that Rogue Servitors will have an unique ability to produce +4 Foundry jobs, while all other empires are capped at +3?
All gestalts have two Alloy Drones and no Artisan Drones on their Industrial Districts.

Servitors have access to the Factory line (if they want to add Artisan Drones to their Industrial Districts), but they also have Artisan Drone jobs on the Bio-Trophy buildings (which would be unaffected by the planetary designation).
 
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Wait, huh? I thought only the jobs created by the Industrial districts could be shifted over. Does this mean that Rogue Servitors will have an unique ability to produce +5 Foundry jobs, while all other empires are capped at +4?
No. The Foundry and Factory lines currently fill the same planet unique slot - you have to pick one industrial focus for the planet.

Although since the designation change gave the regular worlds the ability to specialize in a more flexible way than an Ecumenopolis, I changed it a little bit today so an Ecumenopolis waives the restriction and can build both. (They don't have combined Industrial Districts though, the buildings add to the affiliated District type.)

Regular base Industrial District: 1 Artisan, 1 Metallurgist.
Regular Industrial District with a tier 3 Foundry: 1 Artisan, 3 Metallurgist.
Regular Industrial District with a tier 3 Foundry and Forge World set: 0 Artisan, 4 Metallurgist. (One Artisan converted.)
Regular Industrial District with a tier 3 Foundry and Factory World set: 2 Artisans, 2 Metallurgist. (One Metallurgist converted.)

Gestalt base Industrial District: 2 Alloy Drones.
Servitor with a tier 3 Factory: 2 Artisan Drones, 2 Alloy Drones.
Servitor with a tier 3 Factory and Forge World set: 1 Artisan Drones, 3 Alloy Drones. (One Artisan Drone converted.)
Servitor with a tier 3 Factory and Factory World set: 3 Artisan Drones, 1 Alloy Drone. (One Alloy Drone converted.)
Servitor with a tier 3 Foundry: 4 Alloy Drones.
Servitor with a tier 3 Foundry and Forge World set: Still 4 Alloy drones since there's no Artisan Drones to convert.
Servitor with a tier 3 Foundry and Factory World set: 1 Artisan Drone, 3 Alloy Drone. (One Alloy Drone converted.)

Note: I don't expect you to use the cross-designation often except occasionally in emergencies or when you're planning something big, since you'll lose the other beneficial bonuses of the designations. "I need alloys right now, convert all the Factory Worlds into Forge Worlds temporarily!" A full and proper refitting of your industrial base HOI style from Civilian to Military would involve replacing the Factory line of buildings with the Foundry line and thus take some time.

I'm actually really happy with how this designation thing worked out. Good idea, forum.

Colors for clarity, hopefully it looks decent on the blue background or I'll be sad.
 
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