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Stellaris Dev Diary #19 - Diplomacy & Trade

Greetings!

Today our humble offering covers some of the possible Diplomatic Actions and Trade Deals that can occur between Empires. As most of you may know, the basic diplomatic model used in our previous games work quite well and we will use something similar in Stellaris. All Empires will have opinions of all other known Empires, and different actions, events and internal politics will often affect that opinion. The ethics of each Empire will of course play a heavy role here, as pacifist Empires will react quite differently to aggressive wars than would a xenophobic militarist one.

In Stellaris trade between Empires is a very direct affair. Players can create two-way deals lasting a set amount of time, and our ambition is that most diplomatic actions should be available here as tradeable objects. For example, you can offer another Empire a monthly payment of Minerals in exchange for Military Access and updated Star Charts for a period of 5 years, or receive a vital supply of the rare Garanthium resource by offering a nonaggression treaty as well as a guarantee of independence should the other Empire feel threatened. If you want to simply gift or demand something you can leave one side of the trade-deal blank, and the AI will react accordingly.

stellaris_dev_diary_19_01_20160201_trade.jpg


However, these kinds of trade deals will only happen between equal Empires and as most rulers know, it is better to gain something without having to give up something else. This is where more static diplomatic relationships come into play.

Tributary
A Tributary is forced to pay a set amount of their income to their Overlord each month and is most often established as the result of a lost war. The Overlord will not automatically defend them in wars, so the Tributary is caught in quite an unfortunate position until they have the military strength to either demand an end to their servitude or declare a war of independence.

Protectorate
A Protectorate is a subject protected by a (to them) technologically superior Empire. The Protectorate gains a major research-bonus to all technologies that their Overlord has already researched, and is automatically converted to a Vassal when having progressed far enough technologically.
Any pre-FTL species that is technologically enlightened is automatically created as a Protectorate under whichever Empire granted them the ability to space-travel. The Overlord in turn gains political Influence each month and the eternal gratitude of a bright-eyed new member of the galactic community.

Vassal
A Vassal is the most controlled type of subject-Empire. They will automatically join their Overlord’s wars, aggressive and defensive, and they have no autonomy when it comes to foreign policy or diplomatic relations. A vassal also run the risk of a full diplomatic integration by their Overlord.

Subject-actions
All types of subjects have a Liberty Desire expressing how content they are living under their Overlord’s rule. If a subject's Liberty Desire becomes very high they have a chance to start a war for independence, often waiting for an opportunity when they sense weakness (a taxing war, a larger uprising, a galactic crisis etc.). The Liberty Desire is a compound of a few different parameters but the main ones are the subjects opinion of the Overlord, the total military strength of all the subjects relative to the Overlord as well as if the subject can find someone who supports their cause.
As you would expect from our other games you are able to support the independence of another Empire’s vassal. Doing this will greatly increase their Liberty Desire (assuming the supporter has a fleet rivaling their Overlord) and may cause them to rebel. If they do, the Empire supporting them automatically joins their war for independence. You are also able to guarantee the independence of a smaller Empire, automatically entering the war on their side should they be attacked.

stellaris_dev_diary_19_02_20160201_diplomacy_insult.jpg


We’ve also added another vital diplomatic action to ensure that we can realistically model the complicated diplomatic interactions going on between advanced nations; the insult. Make sure to clearly express your feelings towards your enemy by insulting them, instantly lowering the opinion between your Empires greatly.

That was all for this week. Next dev diary will be written by Doomdark, expanding further upon War & Peace.
 
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Just a Joke

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I should ask this in last diary, but how will devs balance carrier and strike craft in stellaris? We have seen many blames about useless strike crafts in other 4X games.
 

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As far as the use of terms like "vassal" and "protectorate" go, I think they would be fine in such a setting, for the reason of information travel. One reason why terms such as vassal or protectorate are rarely used today (beyond the movement of linguistics) is that the speed at which information travels renders such ideas of less-connected areas fairly moot. A reason vassals had such autonomy back in the day, was because it was simply manageable to allow a level of autonomy, as opposed to having to constantly send orders and envoys every other second.

In a sci-fi setting, where distances will be measured in tens of light-years, the term can gain some recognition again, even if such FTL communication is possible, like an ansible, it would still take a considerable amount of time to move military or civilian assets around, and thus certain parties would be granted a similar amount of autonomy out of a need for efficient governance. Thus, the terms retain relevance. Especially so if your empire is particularly old, and may have penchant for drawing on older terminology, as actual empires tend to do, exemplified by Napoleon's use of Roman symbols or by Mussolini's attempt to connect his ideology to that of the Romans.

I would not be surprised if future powers draw parallels between their reality and their past, and thus use similar words to describe situations that share some commonalities, though they may not use terms exactly the same as "vassal," Stellaris has to abstract such words somehow.

However, I do agree that depending on the type of central governance, different terms and arrangements would likely be used, a Republic may call its vassals "territories"or something like that, as opposed to using a term which has some sense of subjugation attached.

I can't wait for this game because of stuff like this.

While I agree with your autonomy-relevance points, I really, really like the idea of having different ideologies calling junior-states different things for flavor.
 
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Will we be able to use "Threaten War" in the diplomacy screen? So for example we could offer them status as a protectorate, and promise either valuable resources or a war and we keep our resources :)
 
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But if it's not then you have this stupid paradox where you can obtain technology from your enemies (by salvage for exemple) but cannot from your allies.
Yeah, because once the US got a nuclear bomb, the first thing they did was share it with their close allies.
Nope. They didn't even help the UK (see McMahon act).
 
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the idea of having different ideologies calling junior-states different things for flavor

Ditto, but for now I just hope they can release it soon, though I would love modifiable terminology, I would expect a militaristic autocracy to call its subjugated territories something other than "vassals," something more like "Expansion Zone ...." or " Conquest..."

Speaking of vassals, I would expect certain government types would exert less or more control over their "vassals," I would not expect for example, the aforementioned autocracy to allow its "vassals" to produce weapons for example. I'm hoping for a sliding kind of degree of control depending on the government and its ethics.
 
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Liberty Desire is a thing in this game. Hopefully it won't so easy to mange.
 
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Hmm, not a fan of those kind of "trade negotiations". It seems too much like how other 4x space games deal with diplomatic negotiating. I like the more one-sided approach of diplomacy in other Paradox titles. I'm also not a fan of trading technology and star maps.
 
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A different sort of question I don't think I've seen asked, but will Stellaris have scenarios to choose from, EU/HOI/Vicky all provide certain start dates corresponding to historical events, will Stellaris have a sci-fi version?

I'd love to see a start-point in the mid or late game, giving the player control of a crumbling but ancient and vast human empire, almost alone in the stars. I think there would be some exciting opportunities for scenarios with a game like this.
 

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I can't stop thinking about how horrible that mushroom-guy is. It actually scares me a bit, how bad the sense of detail seems to be in the conceptual design of this game. :(
 
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https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...ris-q-a-on-explorminate.904055/#post-20548284

The vassal thing does run consistent with the confirmation there. Although I wonder how a 4x diplomacy setup works with CK2 or EU IV opinion simulations.

In terms of creating a unified diplomacy UI, it isn't bad. It allows more options than the right click menu in CK2 at least, but how all these options work will heavily depend on AI scripting or autonomy.

In diplomacy, insults are in subtlety. Such as ignoring people's requests for your audience. Such as giving favors to the enemy of the empire you don't like. Such as violating the other empire's borders with military forces, then ignoring them. If they complain, you kill the messenger. Whereas the ways to avoid insult is usually to send a gift or some kind of placating gesture, even if it is a minor one.

That's generally how it plays out in Ck2, at least, although the diplomacy there is very mechanics based. The mechanics are solid, but it is very rules orientated. If you don't know the rules, you tend to make mistakes.

In analysis, the Sector Governors is most likely the "integrated" form, one step above, that of a vassal. Whereas a vassal is more like a tributary in CK2. An equal like an ally, but one that doesn't have their own foreign policy AI.
 

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Yeah, because once the US got a nuclear bomb, the first thing they did was share it with their close allies.
Nope. They didn't even help the UK (see McMahon act).

Nope, the first thing the US, Canada and the UK did when they got a nuclear bomb was probably test it.

Then WW2 ended and the US decided it would not share information it obtained with said allies with said allies.

So the UK built its own nuclear weapons (yeah, that not sharing thing didn't make so much difference).

Four years after refusing to share the data and with significant diplomatic concerns they amended the act and shared the data, after all.

Then it turned out that they had promised to share the data when agreeing to work together.

So, yeah, sharing with allies should be a thing... But even cooler would be joint technology projects.
 
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We’ve also added another vital diplomatic action to ensure that we can realistically model the complicated diplomatic interactions going on between advanced nations; the insult. Make sure to clearly express your feelings towards your enemy by insulting them, instantly lowering the opinion between your Empires greatly.
When insulting a monarchy: "Your mother was an Arcturian megahamster and your father smelt of tulaberries!"
 
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Kayden_II

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A vassal also run the risk of a full diplomatic integration by their Overlord.
So ... "Protectorate", next "Vassal" and next the Issue with "Sectors" ? ...
I want to know more about this "Sector"-Issue (like in CK2) to avoid "Micro-Management"^^ ...
 

loup99

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Interesting, but I'm a bit curious if there is anything on non-aggression pacts and civilian access which were according to the wiki mentioned in the podcast with Doomdark? Also, a basic sphere of influence mechanic would be appropriate too.
 
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