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Stellaris Dev Diary #19 - Diplomacy & Trade

Greetings!

Today our humble offering covers some of the possible Diplomatic Actions and Trade Deals that can occur between Empires. As most of you may know, the basic diplomatic model used in our previous games work quite well and we will use something similar in Stellaris. All Empires will have opinions of all other known Empires, and different actions, events and internal politics will often affect that opinion. The ethics of each Empire will of course play a heavy role here, as pacifist Empires will react quite differently to aggressive wars than would a xenophobic militarist one.

In Stellaris trade between Empires is a very direct affair. Players can create two-way deals lasting a set amount of time, and our ambition is that most diplomatic actions should be available here as tradeable objects. For example, you can offer another Empire a monthly payment of Minerals in exchange for Military Access and updated Star Charts for a period of 5 years, or receive a vital supply of the rare Garanthium resource by offering a nonaggression treaty as well as a guarantee of independence should the other Empire feel threatened. If you want to simply gift or demand something you can leave one side of the trade-deal blank, and the AI will react accordingly.

stellaris_dev_diary_19_01_20160201_trade.jpg


However, these kinds of trade deals will only happen between equal Empires and as most rulers know, it is better to gain something without having to give up something else. This is where more static diplomatic relationships come into play.

Tributary
A Tributary is forced to pay a set amount of their income to their Overlord each month and is most often established as the result of a lost war. The Overlord will not automatically defend them in wars, so the Tributary is caught in quite an unfortunate position until they have the military strength to either demand an end to their servitude or declare a war of independence.

Protectorate
A Protectorate is a subject protected by a (to them) technologically superior Empire. The Protectorate gains a major research-bonus to all technologies that their Overlord has already researched, and is automatically converted to a Vassal when having progressed far enough technologically.
Any pre-FTL species that is technologically enlightened is automatically created as a Protectorate under whichever Empire granted them the ability to space-travel. The Overlord in turn gains political Influence each month and the eternal gratitude of a bright-eyed new member of the galactic community.

Vassal
A Vassal is the most controlled type of subject-Empire. They will automatically join their Overlord’s wars, aggressive and defensive, and they have no autonomy when it comes to foreign policy or diplomatic relations. A vassal also run the risk of a full diplomatic integration by their Overlord.

Subject-actions
All types of subjects have a Liberty Desire expressing how content they are living under their Overlord’s rule. If a subject's Liberty Desire becomes very high they have a chance to start a war for independence, often waiting for an opportunity when they sense weakness (a taxing war, a larger uprising, a galactic crisis etc.). The Liberty Desire is a compound of a few different parameters but the main ones are the subjects opinion of the Overlord, the total military strength of all the subjects relative to the Overlord as well as if the subject can find someone who supports their cause.
As you would expect from our other games you are able to support the independence of another Empire’s vassal. Doing this will greatly increase their Liberty Desire (assuming the supporter has a fleet rivaling their Overlord) and may cause them to rebel. If they do, the Empire supporting them automatically joins their war for independence. You are also able to guarantee the independence of a smaller Empire, automatically entering the war on their side should they be attacked.

stellaris_dev_diary_19_02_20160201_diplomacy_insult.jpg


We’ve also added another vital diplomatic action to ensure that we can realistically model the complicated diplomatic interactions going on between advanced nations; the insult. Make sure to clearly express your feelings towards your enemy by insulting them, instantly lowering the opinion between your Empires greatly.

That was all for this week. Next dev diary will be written by Doomdark, expanding further upon War & Peace.
 
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That is if you could communicate in the first place... does one has to invent an universal translator or send a ship to study each language?
In one of the other Dev Diaries there was a screenshot of possible research called "Research Unknowns 'Lambda'", so I believe it is necessary to study them before one can talk with them. And talking includes insulting ;)

On tech-trading; we are thinking of some sort of research-treaty that does not accelerate the game-pace wildly or allows players to game the AI, yet gives friendly Empires a reasonable way to co-operate against another big bad Empire. Whatever we do there won't be a straight-up trading/selling of entire technologies as it's a nightmare to balance/create interesting gameplay from.
So, they are basically sharing a certain percentage of their research?

I'd like to be able to choose how my vassals and tributaries pay me.
I agree, but only if slaves are a payment option ^^
 
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Will there also be diplo slots like in EU4?

Is technology tradable? I sure hope not, that's usually the most abusable mechanic in 4X.

Yes and no. Old technology transfer is certainly OPed and heavily abused, but there are interesting alternative systems, like civ 5 research treaties (pay money and you and a friendly empire get a research boost on the long term) or fallen enchantress (?) system where whenever you research a technology in one field, you get abstracted points in that field. Then you can trade those points to other empires; so if I'm a militaristic empire, I can help in military teching an empire that is more focused on civilian technologies while he can offer me something unrelated to technologies or civilian technology points.
 
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"Failed experiment? Hahaha, damn right we are! We are Geth and we are sapient. Try harder, male-genitalia-look-a-like!"
 
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A fair point. The name is not set in stone so suggestions for what we could call this value are appreciated. However, we do want to keep it somewhat "grounded" so it's clear at a glance what it actually means (so no super-esoteric terms).

How about Self Determination Craving or SDC (because in space everyone love a Three Letter Acronym( or TLA))
 
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I could have used some more novel diplomatic options and results ... like "Threaten - Requirement that you have a fleet at their border" or "Create March - Requirement that the vassal species be militaristic or you can genetically mod them" or "Close dialogue - embargoes all contact with a species, causing a massive hit in relations and perhaps tech growth for the weaker empire." ... I don't know, just more stuff would be preferable to stripped down versions of older titles' options and classic 4x games stuff. Nothing to write home about here.
 
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That moment... when I realised that Sporocarps are mushrooms equivalent of genitalia.
And fungi aliens are happy to show them to us.
There, now you cannot unthink it. Enjoy.
 
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A fair point. The name is not set in stone so suggestions for what we could call this value are appreciated. However, we do want to keep it somewhat "grounded" so it's clear at a glance what it actually means (so no super-esoteric terms).
I am tempted to say "Irrational Desire for Separation" or "Delusion that Separation is Best", but my serious suggestions would be "Independence Desire" and the nice, neutral "Impulse to Separatism".
 
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Is technology tradable? I sure hope not, that's usually the most abusable mechanic in 4X.
It is truly abusable in Distant Worlds. However, I wouldn't mind being able to demand a tech during peace deals (only compatible techs) maybe through some sort of unique event or government specific casus belli. Also there should be some sort of modifiers for having a vassal with high tech abilities give you research or random techs and maybe some sort of trade agreement similar to a research agreement from CIV where you can boost research/ change some modifiers by join investment. Wouldn't want anything that can blob too hard though.
 
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Will insults just change relations a bit, or will they actually do something to encourage you to respond to them, such as riling up your population for war or decreasing the cost to canceling their agreements/forming agrements with their enemies? Certain characteristics of your species(traits, government form) might even influence on the effects e.g a more authoritarian government being able to exploit it much further to directly rile up the population through propaganda, while having almost no effect on agreements, while a more pacifist species might be more inclined to simply embargo the target and make a few defensive treaties with their enemies.
 
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I'm wondering, is it possible that, say as a Human faction, if I run into a Fungoid faction that I may not recognize them as sentient?
 
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This is about what I expected but I was still hoping they'd try to make it more unique and distinct from the EU model. The diplomacy is lifted from EU IV and the trade aspect seemed a little underwhelming I was thinking that space trade with the different FTLS was an area that could make this game stand out.

Still excited for release just thought this aspect of the game could be better, who know though maybe it will be different by release and paradox is always pretty good about expanding on it's weaker aspects after release.
 
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It's awful. Trading with leaders, no civilians flying around, no agreements to jointly develop technologies, no free trade agreements, no cultural exchanges, vassals are there just to be consumed in private later, diplomacy opened for three thing - to declare war, to abuse ai by selling unnecessary to him thing, to prevent coalition forming by improve relations magic.
 
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I disagree that the concepts are too outdated to work. I think those concepts will work better in space and everything much better than they work for modern times simply because the vast distances, communication time, etc. it will be much harder to be centralized, so I feel feudalism will make more sense in the future than now.

Not to mention, not all empires would have adopted *our* modern ideology.
 
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... All Empires will have opinions of all other known Empires, and different actions, events and internal politics will often affect that opinion. The ethics of each Empire will of course play a heavy role here, as pacifist Empires will react quite differently to aggressive wars than would a xenophobic militarist one.

This is exciting, and here's hoping there are ample diplomatic events. I'd love to see some revanchist events, wherein (especially for militarist empires) tributary status or damage after war gives them a bonus to ship costs or shipbuilding times, allowing them to rearm quickly and plunge the galaxy back into war. Someone earlier also posted about royal marriages between species, which would be a fun little special event between monarchies.

Maybe @Jormungandur could answer if, like EUIV, there will be soft caps on the number of available official relations?

The direct trading of resources sounds pretty okay; it does seem to mesh EUIV and the Civ model of trading, but hopefully we won't have to go crazy with renegotiating trade deals every hour - this could get very tiresome if players run a trade empire or have a large number of relations (though obviously there's always the option to go conquering...)

I'm still holding out for a more dynamic abstracted trade system in which we can identify which planets or starsystems are nodes in a great trade empire; this would especially set up some awesome stories/gameplay -- ultimately, I think the narrative power of the game would be served by having the option of bringing in trade blockades, embargoes, soft power through trade, and space Venice to our AARs...but as it won't be in the base game I'm willing to wait for them to flesh it out in an update down the line.
 
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Alpha2518

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Exactly why sphere of influence is better, we may not know what kind of influence they have but we do know they somehow are influencing this other faction. Works much better in sci-fi.

As I recall some people in Star Trek were vassal or considered to be vassals in not just the main TV series, but also the expanded universe. Seems to work just fine in Star Trek so why couldn't it work here?
 
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TheDungen

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Where did you get the impression it was a bad thing?
Because the annexing you causes a game over?
In EU4 there are barely any times that swearing yourself to a more powerful neighbour is a good idea, in ck2 it is actually a multi facceted thing (in fact being a subject may be a little to good compared to what it was like in reality).
 
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misterbean

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Another good DD. I have not seen a single one yet that has me going: "meh."
Keep it up!
 
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hsuzy1987

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Few questions Jormungandur,

1) Is there a cap on how many protectorates/vassals we can have a la EU4 diplomatic relations? I'm assuming so, and I'd bet it'd be influenced by ethos, gov type, and social research

2) Will there be some mechanics to such that the choice between annexing vassals or just keeping them is more involved? Perhaps some bonuses to research or diplomacy if you elect not to annex your vassal species?
 
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EntropyAvatar

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A lot of this sort of game have something like trade pacts or trade routes that (eventually) generate surpluses for both sides of the agreement (provided they can stay out of war). I take it that there won't be anything like this in the release version of the game at least?
 
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