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Stellaris Dev Diary #19 - Diplomacy & Trade

Greetings!

Today our humble offering covers some of the possible Diplomatic Actions and Trade Deals that can occur between Empires. As most of you may know, the basic diplomatic model used in our previous games work quite well and we will use something similar in Stellaris. All Empires will have opinions of all other known Empires, and different actions, events and internal politics will often affect that opinion. The ethics of each Empire will of course play a heavy role here, as pacifist Empires will react quite differently to aggressive wars than would a xenophobic militarist one.

In Stellaris trade between Empires is a very direct affair. Players can create two-way deals lasting a set amount of time, and our ambition is that most diplomatic actions should be available here as tradeable objects. For example, you can offer another Empire a monthly payment of Minerals in exchange for Military Access and updated Star Charts for a period of 5 years, or receive a vital supply of the rare Garanthium resource by offering a nonaggression treaty as well as a guarantee of independence should the other Empire feel threatened. If you want to simply gift or demand something you can leave one side of the trade-deal blank, and the AI will react accordingly.

stellaris_dev_diary_19_01_20160201_trade.jpg


However, these kinds of trade deals will only happen between equal Empires and as most rulers know, it is better to gain something without having to give up something else. This is where more static diplomatic relationships come into play.

Tributary
A Tributary is forced to pay a set amount of their income to their Overlord each month and is most often established as the result of a lost war. The Overlord will not automatically defend them in wars, so the Tributary is caught in quite an unfortunate position until they have the military strength to either demand an end to their servitude or declare a war of independence.

Protectorate
A Protectorate is a subject protected by a (to them) technologically superior Empire. The Protectorate gains a major research-bonus to all technologies that their Overlord has already researched, and is automatically converted to a Vassal when having progressed far enough technologically.
Any pre-FTL species that is technologically enlightened is automatically created as a Protectorate under whichever Empire granted them the ability to space-travel. The Overlord in turn gains political Influence each month and the eternal gratitude of a bright-eyed new member of the galactic community.

Vassal
A Vassal is the most controlled type of subject-Empire. They will automatically join their Overlord’s wars, aggressive and defensive, and they have no autonomy when it comes to foreign policy or diplomatic relations. A vassal also run the risk of a full diplomatic integration by their Overlord.

Subject-actions
All types of subjects have a Liberty Desire expressing how content they are living under their Overlord’s rule. If a subject's Liberty Desire becomes very high they have a chance to start a war for independence, often waiting for an opportunity when they sense weakness (a taxing war, a larger uprising, a galactic crisis etc.). The Liberty Desire is a compound of a few different parameters but the main ones are the subjects opinion of the Overlord, the total military strength of all the subjects relative to the Overlord as well as if the subject can find someone who supports their cause.
As you would expect from our other games you are able to support the independence of another Empire’s vassal. Doing this will greatly increase their Liberty Desire (assuming the supporter has a fleet rivaling their Overlord) and may cause them to rebel. If they do, the Empire supporting them automatically joins their war for independence. You are also able to guarantee the independence of a smaller Empire, automatically entering the war on their side should they be attacked.

stellaris_dev_diary_19_02_20160201_diplomacy_insult.jpg


We’ve also added another vital diplomatic action to ensure that we can realistically model the complicated diplomatic interactions going on between advanced nations; the insult. Make sure to clearly express your feelings towards your enemy by insulting them, instantly lowering the opinion between your Empires greatly.

That was all for this week. Next dev diary will be written by Doomdark, expanding further upon War & Peace.
 
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I feel that it is about time to use a better label, for the political tool named 'insult' so far. I propose "Do the Trump".
 
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Agree with the camp that sez this is the first semi-disappointment in the DD series. I would love to see a more fleshed out, persistent trade system with trade lanes and stations, embargoes, etc. This doesn't just make these empires more believable, it adds a layer of depth that makes you care more about what happens to other civilizations: since you'll almost certainly engage in trade with your neighbours (unless your embargo them), you'll almost certainly care about what happens to them, regardless of whether you're allies. I dunno how exactly Spaceports will function but I imagine something like a trade module could be constructed and linked to another spaceport kinda like how traders work in GalCiv and Civ5. Without this kind of system how are we ever going to see space pirates?

Also -- just an idea -- whilst merchants and estates a la EU4 doesn't make sense here, state-sponsored corporate entities do and could be used to subsidize the immense cost of building space stations as well as granting certain bonuses to administering said stations at the expense of government control (might become a pure trade station, where you cannot build/restock your military fleets). But something like that should probably sit out the 1.0 release and get done properly with a Corporations DLC -- a must have for this game in my estimation.

That said I really like the flexibility this Civ-like interface gives in dealing with other states one-on-one (and hopefully we'll get an equally flexible peace treaty screen, one that puts everything on the table). It actually seems more like a diplomacy screen than a proper Trade screen to me, thinking about it. I'd love a few more diplomatic options at some point though, or confirm that they exist. For instance, could I try and persuade a someone to make peace with another civilization that is not necessarily my ally? Or can I erode the target's relationship with their ally/overlord, or throw money at them to increase their desire for independence/autonomy? Also if you demand things from another civilization, is that the same as threatening war? Can I form coalitions here with non-allied civilizations for a certain number of years, perhaps toward a specific goal? Cuz the thing about other 4x games is that the diplomacy screens have always left me feeling hamstrung, so I hope this one really gives the player a large set of tools to play around with and different ways of solving problems.

Looking forward to the next one and how you guys are going to deal with both the terms of peace screen and the various casus belli options.
 
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Possibly, or something similar to it. Vassals are just loyal subjects with a degree of autonomy, promised protection for loyalty. Is that something so hard to imagine others would have adopted?
 
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Also, Trandoshan/Space Iguana and Mushroom Kingdom empires... confirmed!
 
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Just because we don't see nations using these terms, doesn't mean they don't exist in a real way. What we have today are economic dominance and subservience, without such messy terms as "vassal".

It's not semantics - Vassals don't exist today.

Economic dominance and subservience more-or-less do and would be a much better representation.

I tell you what does exist: socio-cultural hegemony...

Would love to see a system in Stellaris where loose socio-cultural groups (i.e. Traits) become more powerful as the members do and act like a collective entity (based on their power) to agitate or war to bring different minded members to their group.

For example, if the most powerful empires are xenophobic, pacifists then the pressure is on small systems to become more xenophobic and pacifist. The more they 'culturally' assimilate the more protection they get from the powerful members and the more they can contribute to the cause. If they stay isolated then they face existential threats on both sides and are subject to interference or they can commit to the opposite ideology to potentially strengthen the defence - which might end up in war - or light be enough to the deter the more powerful unit.
 
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It's not semantics - Vassals don't exist today.

Economic dominance and subservience more-or-less do and would be a much better representation.

I tell you what does exist: socio-cultural hegemony...

Would love to see a system in Stellaris where loose socio-cultural groups (i.e. Traits) become more powerful as the members do and act like a collective entity (based on their power) to agitate or war to bring different minded members to their group.

For example, if the most powerful empires are xenophobic, pacifists then the pressure is on small systems to become more xenophobic and pacifist. The more they 'culturally' assimilate the more protection they get from the powerful members and the more they can contribute to the cause. If they stay isolated then they face existential threats on both sides and are subject to interference or they can commit to the opposite ideology to potentially strengthen the defence - which might end up in war - or light be enough to the deter the more powerful unit.

I agree. This does exist, but what of say....the U.S. with its proclamation of liberty for all, supporting the Saudi family, or Mubarak's regime. In such situations, it seems more that there is a public proclamation of cultural ideals, but it can all be thrown to the wind if the vassal nation can benefit the host in some way. So....say, securing Israel's southern border - in this case. Also, what does a historian make of the relationship of the US to Israel? Is it always so clear to the public?

I think what we see is just a more sophisticated way to hide the power imbalance, and what or who is being forced into agreements by whom.
 
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Will we be able to use "Threaten War" in the diplomacy screen? So for example we could offer them status as a protectorate, and promise either valuable resources or a war and we keep our resources :)
 
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the idea of having different ideologies calling junior-states different things for flavor

Ditto, but for now I just hope they can release it soon, though I would love modifiable terminology, I would expect a militaristic autocracy to call its subjugated territories something other than "vassals," something more like "Expansion Zone ...." or " Conquest..."

Speaking of vassals, I would expect certain government types would exert less or more control over their "vassals," I would not expect for example, the aforementioned autocracy to allow its "vassals" to produce weapons for example. I'm hoping for a sliding kind of degree of control depending on the government and its ethics.
 
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Yeah, because once the US got a nuclear bomb, the first thing they did was share it with their close allies.
Nope. They didn't even help the UK (see McMahon act).

Nope, the first thing the US, Canada and the UK did when they got a nuclear bomb was probably test it.

Then WW2 ended and the US decided it would not share information it obtained with said allies with said allies.

So the UK built its own nuclear weapons (yeah, that not sharing thing didn't make so much difference).

Four years after refusing to share the data and with significant diplomatic concerns they amended the act and shared the data, after all.

Then it turned out that they had promised to share the data when agreeing to work together.

So, yeah, sharing with allies should be a thing... But even cooler would be joint technology projects.
 
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1) We're testing to see if a cap is needed, or if Liberty Desire is enough.
Wouldn't it make sense to, without forcing a hard cap, just make the inferior partners evaluate their war as more likely to succeed when there are many others in a similar position, or when there's already an ongoing independence war?
A fair point. The name is not set in stone so suggestions for what we could call this value are appreciated. However, we do want to keep it somewhat "grounded" so it's clear at a glance what it actually means (so no super-esoteric terms).
"Autonomy" and "Independence" are not esoteric. They are far less so, in this context, than Liberty.
 
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Can you not have deals which are indefinite? The interface doesn't appear to support that at first glance.
 
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@Jormungandur

In the first screenshot is the 30 in the middle of the trade table 30 reasons that the deal will be accepted? Are deals black and white yes/no like in EU4? I really hate the old maybe/likely/etc system. Also what is the +17% with the arrows mean in the trade deal screen?

UI is looking pretty sexy right now. Can't wait till you start doing some pre-release streaming.....;)
 
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Tim_Ward

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Really cool DD.But what about coalitions and defensive alliances ? Also what is the point of the Insult ? You get extra relations with other Empires who hate the one you just insulted ?

To try and provoke them into an attack, I guess.
 
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Held der Arbeit

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Interesting details about the uplifting mechanics. I can see Federation gameplay where you uplift > vassalize > integrate in order to grow.

However, are there mechanics for small races to rapidly outgrow and eventually challenge their masters? Like the Humans going from a Vulcan protectorate to an Ally to being the dominant species of the Federation in Star Trek

Or will they be more or less powerless (with no independent expansion) like in EU4?
 
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Chiro

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Will there be possible negative consequences for buying technologies from other empires?
I think such a mechanic would counter the abusive method.
 
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