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Stellaris Dev Diary #19 - Diplomacy & Trade

Greetings!

Today our humble offering covers some of the possible Diplomatic Actions and Trade Deals that can occur between Empires. As most of you may know, the basic diplomatic model used in our previous games work quite well and we will use something similar in Stellaris. All Empires will have opinions of all other known Empires, and different actions, events and internal politics will often affect that opinion. The ethics of each Empire will of course play a heavy role here, as pacifist Empires will react quite differently to aggressive wars than would a xenophobic militarist one.

In Stellaris trade between Empires is a very direct affair. Players can create two-way deals lasting a set amount of time, and our ambition is that most diplomatic actions should be available here as tradeable objects. For example, you can offer another Empire a monthly payment of Minerals in exchange for Military Access and updated Star Charts for a period of 5 years, or receive a vital supply of the rare Garanthium resource by offering a nonaggression treaty as well as a guarantee of independence should the other Empire feel threatened. If you want to simply gift or demand something you can leave one side of the trade-deal blank, and the AI will react accordingly.

stellaris_dev_diary_19_01_20160201_trade.jpg


However, these kinds of trade deals will only happen between equal Empires and as most rulers know, it is better to gain something without having to give up something else. This is where more static diplomatic relationships come into play.

Tributary
A Tributary is forced to pay a set amount of their income to their Overlord each month and is most often established as the result of a lost war. The Overlord will not automatically defend them in wars, so the Tributary is caught in quite an unfortunate position until they have the military strength to either demand an end to their servitude or declare a war of independence.

Protectorate
A Protectorate is a subject protected by a (to them) technologically superior Empire. The Protectorate gains a major research-bonus to all technologies that their Overlord has already researched, and is automatically converted to a Vassal when having progressed far enough technologically.
Any pre-FTL species that is technologically enlightened is automatically created as a Protectorate under whichever Empire granted them the ability to space-travel. The Overlord in turn gains political Influence each month and the eternal gratitude of a bright-eyed new member of the galactic community.

Vassal
A Vassal is the most controlled type of subject-Empire. They will automatically join their Overlord’s wars, aggressive and defensive, and they have no autonomy when it comes to foreign policy or diplomatic relations. A vassal also run the risk of a full diplomatic integration by their Overlord.

Subject-actions
All types of subjects have a Liberty Desire expressing how content they are living under their Overlord’s rule. If a subject's Liberty Desire becomes very high they have a chance to start a war for independence, often waiting for an opportunity when they sense weakness (a taxing war, a larger uprising, a galactic crisis etc.). The Liberty Desire is a compound of a few different parameters but the main ones are the subjects opinion of the Overlord, the total military strength of all the subjects relative to the Overlord as well as if the subject can find someone who supports their cause.
As you would expect from our other games you are able to support the independence of another Empire’s vassal. Doing this will greatly increase their Liberty Desire (assuming the supporter has a fleet rivaling their Overlord) and may cause them to rebel. If they do, the Empire supporting them automatically joins their war for independence. You are also able to guarantee the independence of a smaller Empire, automatically entering the war on their side should they be attacked.

stellaris_dev_diary_19_02_20160201_diplomacy_insult.jpg


We’ve also added another vital diplomatic action to ensure that we can realistically model the complicated diplomatic interactions going on between advanced nations; the insult. Make sure to clearly express your feelings towards your enemy by insulting them, instantly lowering the opinion between your Empires greatly.

That was all for this week. Next dev diary will be written by Doomdark, expanding further upon War & Peace.
 
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I'm really glad that the diplomatic model won't diverge too from the tried and true one already used in other games. This is something I was initially worried about.

A very brief question: If you were to receive a resource from another empire, would that resource be able to be used Empire wide, or only on a specified planet?

edit: also, is there going to be a diplomatic relations maximum, as there is in EU4?
 
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yeah, new DEV DIARY!

we already knew that we wouldnt really get a civilian sector for trade so this system works fine...and i am SO SO SO glad that we cant trade research!!! I hate that in other 4x games, and i am really happy with this way!
 
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Is technology tradable? I sure hope not, that's usually the most abusable mechanic in 4X.
Doesnt look like it but im certain it would be one of the first things to be modded out by the community. Though the game seems to offer some way of boosting others tech (ie. pre-spacefaring, protectorate).

Personally speaking im quite surprised as to how much the diplomatic system seems to borrow from prior PDOX titles, not that its bad.
 
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Not directly related to this dev diary, but I didn't see it answered back then so I'lltry it here: in the dev diary on uplifting species, you called them "pre-sentient", which is the wrong term since they are most definitely sentient. The term that should be used is pre-sapient. This is a really common mistake in science fiction, but is there any chance of it getting fixed?
 
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I am the only one who saw the "Alpha" thing missing?
Intern closed beta confirmed?
http://www.pcinvasion.com/stellaris-interview-henrik-fahraeus-on-taking-paradox-into-space


"PCI: Any ideas when we can expect the game?

HF: It’s going to be released sometime this year. When, I can’t really say. I can mention though that we’ve taken in some beta testers, so that might be an indication of how far along the process we are.

PCI: So you’re hitting the last 10% or something like that?

HF: We see the finishing line."
 
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A fair point. The name is not set in stone so suggestions for what we could call this value are appreciated. However, we do want to keep it somewhat "grounded" so it's clear at a glance what it actually means (so no super-esoteric terms).
You could just invert the mechanic and call it "Loyalty" instead. So a state that has 0% Loyalty is likely to war it's overlord.

I want to play Stellaris.
I think we all do...
 
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Bit of a short DD, but hey it can't always be thunder and fireworks every week. I have to say it looks very EU4-ish though.
 
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That's the problem i'm trying to bring up with this thread. A Desert planet with a Methane atmosphere would be completely uninhabitable to us. Under the current system (as evidenced by the screens below) there is no distinction between that and a planet like say Tatoine (to use a famous fictitious example) which is also a Desert planet but could be readily colonized (lightly at least).

Hmm espionage options are missing (for now)

There will be no detailed espionage (or maybe even any at all) at game release.

In a recent audio interview is was stated that there will be no espionage at release.

Please no! This is the sort of "balance" that ruined EU. Let there be a possibility of things being different instead of "balanced".

The balance of... not allowing infinite vassals or vassals of incredible size? To what are you referring here?
 
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This is very promising. I like how protectorates and tributaries function.

I'd like to be able to choose how my vassals and tributaries pay me. Maybe I want access to that rare resource they have lying there. The more valuable a resource is to them the greater their liberty desire might be. I'd also like to be able to modify the amount they pay me each month, instead of the game giving them a set amount. Of course there should be a reasonable range on this, but the main reason I ask for this is not to make more out of them, it's actually to make less. I want to be able to ease their economic duties in exchange for them being more ready militarily when I need them. I don't mean something permanent like Marches in EU4, but rather something entirely temporary. An opposite of Scutage in EU4 if you will. It could even impact liberty desire like scutage. When you disable it, it raises their liberty desire.
 
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Every Dev diary has excited me immensely... Until this one.

(And it started so well with diplomatic agreements being a 'tradeable resource' - this should be in EU4. Nations with valuable resources could use them to 'buy' protection.)

Still it's 2016 - how many protectorates, vassals or tributaries do you see nowadays?

Is there no more sophisticated way to represent the balance of power than pre-industrial terms?
 
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Still it's 2016 - how many protectorates, vassals or tributaries do you see nowadays?

Is there no more sophisticated way to represent the balance of power than pre-industrial terms?

Relations between different species and multi-species empires that are spread across many star systems will probably take a very different form than the contemporary situation between nation-states on a single planet. Probably neither the "EU-style" or "contemporary style" is a realistic model of how things would work. Yet we probably want to stick with some model that people can at least understand. EU-style diplomacy is at least a field-tested model of a middle-ground between "anything goes" and a modern era where empire-building is rather frowned upon.
 
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henzington

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Many of the US territories have fewer rights but still serve in the armed forces like Puerto Rico or American Somoa. I would say this is a similar situation to a vassal.
 
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Still it's 2016 - how many protectorates, vassals or tributaries do you see nowadays?

Is there no more sophisticated way to represent the balance of power than pre-industrial terms?

I believe there were quite a lot of satelites even during the industrial era. Then maybe the idea of new species would bring back the idea of some beings being superior than others, so I'm not sure it's that absurd to consider vassals outdated.
 
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Silveroak2

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As far as the use of terms like "vassal" and "protectorate" go, I think they would be fine in such a setting, for the reason of information travel. One reason why terms such as vassal or protectorate are rarely used today (beyond the movement of linguistics) is that the speed at which information travels renders such ideas of less-connected areas fairly moot. A reason vassals had such autonomy back in the day, was because it was simply manageable to allow a level of autonomy, as opposed to having to constantly send orders and envoys every other second.

In a sci-fi setting, where distances will be measured in tens of light-years, the term can gain some recognition again, even if such FTL communication is possible, like an ansible, it would still take a considerable amount of time to move military or civilian assets around, and thus certain parties would be granted a similar amount of autonomy out of a need for efficient governance. Thus, the terms retain relevance. Especially so if your empire is particularly old, and may have penchant for drawing on older terminology, as actual empires tend to do, exemplified by Napoleon's use of Roman symbols or by Mussolini's attempt to connect his ideology to that of the Romans.

I would not be surprised if future powers draw parallels between their reality and their past, and thus use similar words to describe situations that share some commonalities, though they may not use terms exactly the same as "vassal," Stellaris has to abstract such words somehow.

However, I do agree that depending on the type of central governance, different terms and arrangements would likely be used, a Republic may call its vassals "territories"or something like that, as opposed to using a term which has some sense of subjugation attached.

I can't wait for this game because of stuff like this.
 
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drakeheath

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I hope there's a benefit to keeping vassals and that they're not just a step in getting more land like in EU4.
Like being an autonomous vassal might make a species perform better than if they were just direct subjects of your empire, or something.

And there's not some arbitrary limit on how many vassals I'm allowed to have.

Also, I'd very much like for the trade system to be more that that, if not in the base game then DLC or something. Have some way of showing that I have a strong private sector or something.
 
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Sir Pellew

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I am very pleased by what I read here :) This will make the lategame really interesting. .... and yesss .. Diplo-Annex :)
 
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Haldan

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Hmm espionage options are missing (for now)
The diplomatic options don't seem to come in the same abundance as in euiv (which have had some time to expand them). Ofcourse I don't really know what is hidden under trad though. The possibility to make trade deals like in civ is cool though.

Hopefully we'll get the best from both games.
I believe Paradox have said that there won't be much espionage in the vanilla game. You can still covertly infiltrate pre-FTL nations however.
 
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Phibs

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Shroom masterrace hype!

Seriously though that's a cute piece of art.
 
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