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Stellaris Dev Diary #19 - Diplomacy & Trade

Greetings!

Today our humble offering covers some of the possible Diplomatic Actions and Trade Deals that can occur between Empires. As most of you may know, the basic diplomatic model used in our previous games work quite well and we will use something similar in Stellaris. All Empires will have opinions of all other known Empires, and different actions, events and internal politics will often affect that opinion. The ethics of each Empire will of course play a heavy role here, as pacifist Empires will react quite differently to aggressive wars than would a xenophobic militarist one.

In Stellaris trade between Empires is a very direct affair. Players can create two-way deals lasting a set amount of time, and our ambition is that most diplomatic actions should be available here as tradeable objects. For example, you can offer another Empire a monthly payment of Minerals in exchange for Military Access and updated Star Charts for a period of 5 years, or receive a vital supply of the rare Garanthium resource by offering a nonaggression treaty as well as a guarantee of independence should the other Empire feel threatened. If you want to simply gift or demand something you can leave one side of the trade-deal blank, and the AI will react accordingly.

stellaris_dev_diary_19_01_20160201_trade.jpg


However, these kinds of trade deals will only happen between equal Empires and as most rulers know, it is better to gain something without having to give up something else. This is where more static diplomatic relationships come into play.

Tributary
A Tributary is forced to pay a set amount of their income to their Overlord each month and is most often established as the result of a lost war. The Overlord will not automatically defend them in wars, so the Tributary is caught in quite an unfortunate position until they have the military strength to either demand an end to their servitude or declare a war of independence.

Protectorate
A Protectorate is a subject protected by a (to them) technologically superior Empire. The Protectorate gains a major research-bonus to all technologies that their Overlord has already researched, and is automatically converted to a Vassal when having progressed far enough technologically.
Any pre-FTL species that is technologically enlightened is automatically created as a Protectorate under whichever Empire granted them the ability to space-travel. The Overlord in turn gains political Influence each month and the eternal gratitude of a bright-eyed new member of the galactic community.

Vassal
A Vassal is the most controlled type of subject-Empire. They will automatically join their Overlord’s wars, aggressive and defensive, and they have no autonomy when it comes to foreign policy or diplomatic relations. A vassal also run the risk of a full diplomatic integration by their Overlord.

Subject-actions
All types of subjects have a Liberty Desire expressing how content they are living under their Overlord’s rule. If a subject's Liberty Desire becomes very high they have a chance to start a war for independence, often waiting for an opportunity when they sense weakness (a taxing war, a larger uprising, a galactic crisis etc.). The Liberty Desire is a compound of a few different parameters but the main ones are the subjects opinion of the Overlord, the total military strength of all the subjects relative to the Overlord as well as if the subject can find someone who supports their cause.
As you would expect from our other games you are able to support the independence of another Empire’s vassal. Doing this will greatly increase their Liberty Desire (assuming the supporter has a fleet rivaling their Overlord) and may cause them to rebel. If they do, the Empire supporting them automatically joins their war for independence. You are also able to guarantee the independence of a smaller Empire, automatically entering the war on their side should they be attacked.

stellaris_dev_diary_19_02_20160201_diplomacy_insult.jpg


We’ve also added another vital diplomatic action to ensure that we can realistically model the complicated diplomatic interactions going on between advanced nations; the insult. Make sure to clearly express your feelings towards your enemy by insulting them, instantly lowering the opinion between your Empires greatly.

That was all for this week. Next dev diary will be written by Doomdark, expanding further upon War & Peace.
 
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Santander

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This is EU4: When it comes to human overlord with an AI subject, you always annex. When it's a human overlord and a human subject, the thing is very different, and is entirely dependent on what they agreed upon. There are cases where a vassalage might be a better alternative than facing an AI coalition, or when you can't get powerful allies to defend you. It's certainly a good strategy when a player starts with a small nation and a neighbor player controls a medium-sized nation (e.g. Anhalt and Saxony). You become a subject with the understanding that your overlord will help you expand, then they release you and maintain a game-long alliance. When it's AI overlord and human subject, the AI never tries to annex if I'm not mistaken.
I don't know about EU4, but in EU3 the AI will propose annexation, but the human player is allowed to refuse. In fact, I don't think there's even a relationship penalty.
 

Alpha2518

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I'm not aware of a what peoples were considered to be vassals of other peoples. I'd have to watch the series all over again just to see where and who in the TV series. As for the expanded media, I only got so much I can get my hand on. Best to ask people who are really into the expanded universe.

Also it's also worth noting that vassals are also considered to be subjects. So its not like vassal =/= subject.
 

SolSys

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So....say, securing Israel's southern border - in this case.
Not entirely sure what you meant; where you referring to the new border between Egypt and Israel that was built originally to stop terrorism but now is also used to stop African refugees?

Also, what does a historian make of the relationship of the US to Israel? Is it always so clear to the public?
A very good point.
Most young or un-knowledgeable people assume the two have been best buds from the start. In truth, the relations between the two were strained or neutral at best up till the mid-60's when it changed.
 

TheDungen

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This all sounds great tbh!



NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! The "relative strength compared to overlord" modifier was so broken in EU4! if it has to be in then at least tell me it's fixed, i want to be able to peacefully uplift as many species as possible, not have 5 1-planet vassals with a combined strength of 1/3 thinking i'm literally hitler because +147 Liberty desire from "combined strength of vassals"
Then make them part of a federation instead of vassals.
 

moglus

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Then make them part of a federation instead of vassals.

i'm not sure we'll have much of a choice considering that uplifted species automatically become protectorates, and when they tech up vassals... you'd have to game the system by ending the vassalization, and then force or convince them to join the federation later...

tbh i'd rather just the vassalization mechanic not be broken in the first place...
 

Yenzen

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KonradKurze202

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Every Dev diary has excited me immensely... Until this one.

(And it started so well with diplomatic agreements being a 'tradeable resource' - this should be in EU4. Nations with valuable resources could use them to 'buy' protection.)

Still it's 2016 - how many protectorates, vassals or tributaries do you see nowadays?

Is there no more sophisticated way to represent the balance of power than pre-industrial terms?
Quite a few. US Samoa, Puerto Rice, the Phillipines (although no longer), are all protectorates of the US. Until fairly recently Canada, Australia and India were subject nations of the UK. The Soviet Union had a large number of vassal states (most of Eastern Europe was not officially part of the USSR, it was instead part of the larger Communist community controlled by the CCCP (USSR in syrallic characters :).

There are fewer today, but there are still plenty. Japan is more or less a protectorate of the US (they are prevented from forming a military by treaty, instead the US is obligated to provide defenses), Puerto Rico is definitely a US territory, but not a state. Native American's are pretty much a protectorate of the US. American Samoa might still be, not 100% on that. Scotland is a subject of the UK, as is Northern Ireland. Sorry to disappoint you, but these international relations still exist today.
 

DC123456789

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Japan is more or less a protectorate of the US (they are prevented from forming a military by treaty, instead the US is obligated to provide defenses), Puerto Rico is definitely a US territory, but not a state. Native American's are pretty much a protectorate of the US. American Samoa might still be, not 100% on that. Scotland is a subject of the UK, as is Northern Ireland. Sorry to disappoint you, but these international relations still exist today.

Japan I'd consider more of an alliance/in sphere of influence, but all the of these other examples you've cited aren't vassals, they're directly part of the state itself.
 

KonradKurze202

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Japan I'd consider more of an alliance/in sphere of influence, but all the of these other examples you've cited aren't vassals, they're directly part of the state itself.
The difference is in the naming convention rather than details. Puerto Rice is US territory, but they cannot vote on Presidents and have no influence on US policy, yet they are required to follow the US constitution and pay ( a little bit) in taxes. It is a very benign vassal, but it is a vassal none the less. The UK I am less knowledgeable of, but I think Scotland is forced to follow British laws with only a limited amount of representation in the greater UK. It, again, is fairly benign, whereas pre-industrial vassals tended to be more... East India Trade Company ish, exploitive, rather than symbiotic.
The USSR, on the other hand, collapsed only 25+ish years ago (1988-1989), and was most assuredly a tyrannic overlord to its vassals.

It is far less common today than it was 200-500 years ago to be sure, but outright conquest, on the other hand, is far more common. It's barely been a year since Russia conquered Crimea from Ukraine.
 

KonradKurze202

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Scotland has full representation in the UK Parliament and is an integral part of the UK. Scotland would be more akin to an American state than an American territory, which would be something like the Channel Islands or the Falklands.
Interesting, thanks for the clarification :)

I remember a little while back there was some talk about Scotland thinking of becoming independent (I live in the US so we get pretty much no coverage of anything that isn't outright war, sadly), is that possible in the UK? I know in US a state attempting to secede wouldn't be allowed (Civil War).
 

bobthedog

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A fair point. The name is not set in stone so suggestions for what we could call this value are appreciated. However, we do want to keep it somewhat "grounded" so it's clear at a glance what it actually means (so no super-esoteric terms).

How about simply calling it "Loyalty"? In EU4 subjects are already listed as Loyal, Disloyal, or Rebellious, depending on their LD.
 

Winterwolf00

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I think there should be a unique diplomatic action for Plutocratic oligarchies, treat then like Merchant Republics of previous games that get bonuses to trade and the ability to form trade leagues.
 

Matrim_Cauthon

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I wanted a mechanics of trade like in Sid Meyer's Alpha Centauri. Basically, while at peace each city (in Stellaris it'd be planets) would get an energy bonus according to the size of the cities it was trading with. Your civilization biggest city trades with the other's biggest city, and so on. If your two civilizations have a free trade deal, then that energy bonus is increased. If you have ethics that go along with free trade, your energy bonus is even bigger. If it's against free trade (more planned economy), then it's smaller.

I liked that system.
 

chopak

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I wanted a mechanics of trade like in Sid Meyer's Alpha Centauri. Basically, while at peace each city (in Stellaris it'd be planets) would get an energy bonus according to the size of the cities it was trading with. Your civilization biggest city trades with the other's biggest city, and so on. If your two civilizations have a free trade deal, then that energy bonus is increased. If you have ethics that go along with free trade, your energy bonus is even bigger. If it's against free trade (more planned economy), then it's smaller.

I liked that system.
I think Civ IV had the same system. It was pretty cool.
 

Demon88

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So ready for the games release. However I do hope the diplomacy does not suffer from the usual AI diplomacy of other games. By that I mean the constant demands of resources/money by the AI without them offering anything and then a declaration of war after you deny them their handouts. Also the tendancy of an AIs level of hostility not taking into account the relative power of the player empire. For example if my empire has been engaged in a long war for many years taking over numerous colonies and eraticating the AI fleets, yet I offer them survival under vassalage while my massive armada orbits their last colony only to have the AI reply in the negative due to very low relationship/opinion of me based on the war itself.

This of course is understandable on occasion due to a perhaps fanatic species with a fight to the last dying breath mentality, however I would hope some aliens out there would see the wisdom and logic of laying down arms in the face of overwhelming power with hopes of someday throwing off the shackles of their oppressors. As much as I enjoy a good prolonged war, always fighting an enemy willing to die to the last no matter the odds gets a it dull very fast and ruins the imersion for me a bit.