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Stellaris Dev Diary #19 - Diplomacy & Trade

Greetings!

Today our humble offering covers some of the possible Diplomatic Actions and Trade Deals that can occur between Empires. As most of you may know, the basic diplomatic model used in our previous games work quite well and we will use something similar in Stellaris. All Empires will have opinions of all other known Empires, and different actions, events and internal politics will often affect that opinion. The ethics of each Empire will of course play a heavy role here, as pacifist Empires will react quite differently to aggressive wars than would a xenophobic militarist one.

In Stellaris trade between Empires is a very direct affair. Players can create two-way deals lasting a set amount of time, and our ambition is that most diplomatic actions should be available here as tradeable objects. For example, you can offer another Empire a monthly payment of Minerals in exchange for Military Access and updated Star Charts for a period of 5 years, or receive a vital supply of the rare Garanthium resource by offering a nonaggression treaty as well as a guarantee of independence should the other Empire feel threatened. If you want to simply gift or demand something you can leave one side of the trade-deal blank, and the AI will react accordingly.

stellaris_dev_diary_19_01_20160201_trade.jpg


However, these kinds of trade deals will only happen between equal Empires and as most rulers know, it is better to gain something without having to give up something else. This is where more static diplomatic relationships come into play.

Tributary
A Tributary is forced to pay a set amount of their income to their Overlord each month and is most often established as the result of a lost war. The Overlord will not automatically defend them in wars, so the Tributary is caught in quite an unfortunate position until they have the military strength to either demand an end to their servitude or declare a war of independence.

Protectorate
A Protectorate is a subject protected by a (to them) technologically superior Empire. The Protectorate gains a major research-bonus to all technologies that their Overlord has already researched, and is automatically converted to a Vassal when having progressed far enough technologically.
Any pre-FTL species that is technologically enlightened is automatically created as a Protectorate under whichever Empire granted them the ability to space-travel. The Overlord in turn gains political Influence each month and the eternal gratitude of a bright-eyed new member of the galactic community.

Vassal
A Vassal is the most controlled type of subject-Empire. They will automatically join their Overlord’s wars, aggressive and defensive, and they have no autonomy when it comes to foreign policy or diplomatic relations. A vassal also run the risk of a full diplomatic integration by their Overlord.

Subject-actions
All types of subjects have a Liberty Desire expressing how content they are living under their Overlord’s rule. If a subject's Liberty Desire becomes very high they have a chance to start a war for independence, often waiting for an opportunity when they sense weakness (a taxing war, a larger uprising, a galactic crisis etc.). The Liberty Desire is a compound of a few different parameters but the main ones are the subjects opinion of the Overlord, the total military strength of all the subjects relative to the Overlord as well as if the subject can find someone who supports their cause.
As you would expect from our other games you are able to support the independence of another Empire’s vassal. Doing this will greatly increase their Liberty Desire (assuming the supporter has a fleet rivaling their Overlord) and may cause them to rebel. If they do, the Empire supporting them automatically joins their war for independence. You are also able to guarantee the independence of a smaller Empire, automatically entering the war on their side should they be attacked.

stellaris_dev_diary_19_02_20160201_diplomacy_insult.jpg


We’ve also added another vital diplomatic action to ensure that we can realistically model the complicated diplomatic interactions going on between advanced nations; the insult. Make sure to clearly express your feelings towards your enemy by insulting them, instantly lowering the opinion between your Empires greatly.

That was all for this week. Next dev diary will be written by Doomdark, expanding further upon War & Peace.
 
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SolarGuy

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So, we know that tributaries have to pay their masters. Probably we can even choose what they pay with. So there is only one logical question about this:

Can we force them to pay with a few slaves every month, that we can use to feed our population, or just to have slave workers? :D

And also, can I declare that my vassal has to change all of his economy to agriculture, or war industry, or research? So I could turn them into cheap production sectors for certain things, instead of having to get used to what they want to produce? After all, they are my vassals, so they have to do what I want, no matter wether they want or not.
 

GhostKiller01

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vyshan

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Cool. two questions though :)

1.) Is it possible to play or have Loyal Vassals(such as protecterates) without their overlord annexing them? I am thinking of something like the Volus from Mass Effect which are a protectate under the Turians.

2.) In regards to trade, how would civilian side of things be effected should their be trade between two empires? Mostly wondering how corporations/mega corps might react. :)

P.S: YAY for more images of reptilians :D
 

Just a Joke

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I should ask this in last diary, but how will devs balance carrier and strike craft in stellaris? We have seen many blames about useless strike crafts in other 4X games.
 

Silveroak2

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A different sort of question I don't think I've seen asked, but will Stellaris have scenarios to choose from, EU/HOI/Vicky all provide certain start dates corresponding to historical events, will Stellaris have a sci-fi version?

I'd love to see a start-point in the mid or late game, giving the player control of a crumbling but ancient and vast human empire, almost alone in the stars. I think there would be some exciting opportunities for scenarios with a game like this.
 

myrsl0ken

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I can't stop thinking about how horrible that mushroom-guy is. It actually scares me a bit, how bad the sense of detail seems to be in the conceptual design of this game. :(
 
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https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...ris-q-a-on-explorminate.904055/#post-20548284

The vassal thing does run consistent with the confirmation there. Although I wonder how a 4x diplomacy setup works with CK2 or EU IV opinion simulations.

In terms of creating a unified diplomacy UI, it isn't bad. It allows more options than the right click menu in CK2 at least, but how all these options work will heavily depend on AI scripting or autonomy.

In diplomacy, insults are in subtlety. Such as ignoring people's requests for your audience. Such as giving favors to the enemy of the empire you don't like. Such as violating the other empire's borders with military forces, then ignoring them. If they complain, you kill the messenger. Whereas the ways to avoid insult is usually to send a gift or some kind of placating gesture, even if it is a minor one.

That's generally how it plays out in Ck2, at least, although the diplomacy there is very mechanics based. The mechanics are solid, but it is very rules orientated. If you don't know the rules, you tend to make mistakes.

In analysis, the Sector Governors is most likely the "integrated" form, one step above, that of a vassal. Whereas a vassal is more like a tributary in CK2. An equal like an ally, but one that doesn't have their own foreign policy AI.
 

Kayden_II

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A vassal also run the risk of a full diplomatic integration by their Overlord.
So ... "Protectorate", next "Vassal" and next the Issue with "Sectors" ? ...
I want to know more about this "Sector"-Issue (like in CK2) to avoid "Micro-Management"^^ ...
 

ikki

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Hey, protectorates in Stellaris become vassals when they tech up ... like they should in EUIV.

Dunno. Maybe.
Another option is that they join the galactic federation of the gods and their uplifted pets & former bronze age societies tricked into joining the greater empire.
That would grant the closest thing to the creative trait (moo-baa 2) when multiple civs research their own thing and then share.

With sectors you might as well split into multiple parts.
And when you mess with me, you mess with my whole family! :p
 

Tim_Ward

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Now we can see what those buttons on the bottom right are!
 

Victor813

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A fair point. The name is not set in stone so suggestions for what we could call this value are appreciated. However, we do want to keep it somewhat "grounded" so it's clear at a glance what it actually means (so no super-esoteric terms).
I think the most appropriate meaning would be "selfstanding desire"
from Wiki selfstanding -
standing or existing in ones own power, ability or competence, non-reliant
 
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*Aqua*

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On tech-trading; we are thinking of some sort of research-treaty that does not accelerate the game-pace wildly or allows players to game the AI, yet gives friendly Empires a reasonable way to co-operate against another big bad Empire. Whatever we do there won't be a straight-up trading/selling of entire technologies as it's a nightmare to balance/create interesting gameplay from.
How about a "Research cooperation" deal which gives both something like a +5% research speed bonus?

And now something completely different (not really):
Is a trade between overlord and vassal/protectorate/tributary possible? In other games I'm often annoyed that your range of interaction with your subordinate races/empires reduces to annexation or letting them go.
 

misterbean

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How about "Freedom Movement" instead of LD?
 
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Axe99

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Cheers for the DD, sounds great :). Am a big fan of tech not being directly tradeable, tends to turn into an un-balanced micro-mess in all the games I've played with it in it (and those with the option to disable it, have it disabled pretty much straight away).
 

Krozam

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In Stellaris trade between Empires is a very direct affair. Players can create two-way deals lasting a set amount of time, and our ambition is that most diplomatic actions should be available here as tradeable objects. For example, you can offer another Empire a monthly payment of Minerals in exchange for Military Access and updated Star Charts for a period of 5 years, or receive a vital supply of the rare Garanthium resource by offering a nonaggression treaty as well as a guarantee of independence should the other Empire feel threatened. If you want to simply gift or demand something you can leave one side of the trade-deal blank, and the AI will react accordingly.
Somebody has probably said this before (don't have time to read all the comments), but this sounds a lot like the trade/diplomatic system in the Civ games. Not a bad thing, it's a simple but effective system.
 

Rip Off Productions

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I strongly hope that two way peace deals are allowed where, for example, in return for demanding several planets you offer a "fair" cash payment, where how much you need to pay depends on how much you're winning by. Offering more than you need to could lessen the diplomatic impact of the peace deal.
so much yes! I remember so many times when trying to make peace deals in EU4 wishing I could pay some cash(or maybe a lot of cash) to make up for the 1 or 2 points of warscore I was missing...