Stellaris Dev Diary #187 - Post-mortem

[Zagreb 887]

Personally, I don't have real issue with the RP side of this DLC, even if it's really shallow, and closer to bland copy/mix-up of existing concepts than a real appropriation of them, bcs everything in Stellaris is like that, and strangely, it's giving this game his flavor.

My issue is more about mechanic introduced, undead armies are just pointless, the so called new building of this civic is just a military academy.
The other civics are the same, they just change the name and icône of culture workers, give you an action to do every 10 years, which is just a matter of + or - % on something. No storytelling, no real game change.

The symbiote idea is nice but as said before, is already present in a mod. And as usual, there is no work put into balancing the civic (regarding pops) with others. I'm sure it will create some weird bugs and oversights as usual and they won't ever be fixed. It's like the devs do their stuff in their corner and to communicate or have a global vision of the game system.

 

[Dragatus]

So this origin was coded by the artists?

The origin was created by a content designer. Those are PDX employees that basically do the sort of things that modders can do. Their work involves scripting, but not programming. Scripting involves work like making new origins, buildings, jobs, civics, events, and so on. Programmers work on more fundamental aspects of the game that can't be modified through script, such as AI or performance.

To make an example on the difference between a content designer's job and a programmer's job, when it comes to weapons the content designer's job would be to create all the specific weapons like Red Lasers or Devastator Torpedoes and give them stats and cost and so on. Meanwhile the programmer's job would be to create the concept of weapons within the framework of the game as things that shoot at enemy ships and cause them damage and to create the various properties that weapons have, such as damage and cost and being instant hit or seeking.

 

[Primarch Victus]

Honestly, I would prefer to see my species/civ assimilating others species, turning them in more of their own and using their best traits on themselves than what is written in this Necrophage trait. Biological Assimilators like the kett make far more sense than "Space Vampires/Zombies".

The only "Space Undead" I truly like and respect is The Hive (Destiny) -- why? they can (apparently) reproduce by themselves and their only motivation is to destroy and conquer other species in the name of Darkness.

 

[Alphaviki]

It looks very great! I know there are many complaints, but as this is mostly artwork and comparatively little programming, I assume you are working on the issues mentioned by numerous people.

I can only urge my fellow game enthusiasts in the comments to behave themselves. I know you are frustrated and you are allowed to be, but please be a bit nicer to the devs, otherwise they won't see a reason to show us anything, if they feel that a) their work isn't appreciated and b) just feel awful by reading the comments and get demotivated to interact with us. They are only humans you see and it's not an 'evil corporation' that just wants to scam you for as much money as they can an ignore known issues. I kind of get the feel that's what many people think who negatively comment on this dev diary. But again I am not saying you can't give negative feedback, but personally I would respond way better to constructive critism, rather than to irony and the like. In the end that's just my opinion though.

To the devs: I hope you can find a fix to the issue and continue your creative endeavours with the game. I really liked many of your previous additions and am looking forward to the future, even if some stuff doesn't work as intended right now.

 

[TheDungen]

Are you sure? Because the only breeding queens we encounter (Hathor and Egeria) have human hosts.

Egeria doesn't have a human host, I mean yeah she's had one but she doesn't have one when she's seen in the series.

 

[TomorrowsHerald]

It looks very great! I know there are many complaints, but as this is mostly artwork and comparatively little programming, I assume you are working on the issues mentioned by numerous people.

I can only urge my fellow game enthusiasts in the comments to behave themselves. I know you are frustrated and you are allowed to be, but please be a bit nicer to the devs, otherwise they won't see a reason to show us anything, if they feel that a) their work isn't appreciated and b) just feel awful by reading the comments and get demotivated to interact with us. They are only humans you see and it's not an 'evil corporation' that just wants to scam you for as much money as they can an ignore known issues. I kind of get the feel that's what many people think who negatively comment on this dev diary. But again I am not saying you can't give negative feedback, but personally I would respond way better to constructive critism, rather than to irony and the like. In the end that's just my opinion though.

To the devs: I hope you can find a fix to the issue and continue your creative endeavours with the game. I really liked many of your previous additions and am looking forward to the future, even if some stuff doesn't work as intended right now.

Uh, I am not so sure if that's how it works; the problem is that the devs aren't showing us anything at all, that's why so many people are up in arms. You could make an argument for people to be a bit careful in what they say and keep it in the bounds of ordinary politeness, but please don't put the cart before the horse. And you don't need to be an evil corporation to scam people for money, just an ordinary one will do. I don't think anyone faults paradox for making money, what most here are finding fault with is that they are making money off incomplete and malfunctioning products and then offer us the next one with the same tongue in cheek.

Most of the comments I see are the very definition of constructive, they are pointing out what is flawed in the game, flaws in the proposed species pack, and how it may interfere with the existing game. We are not here to make paradox happy, it’s supposed to be the other way around; we are customers, not consultants. The thing that is seriously starting to piss me off is this duel conversation we appear to be having; our desire to see fixes to the existing game versus the company's interest to sell this DLC in the past three dev diaries. They say they are hearing what we have to say, but I am not getting that impression at all by these actions.

Hell, we don't even have a concrete promise that they are actively trying to fix these problems, and here lies the heart of the issue; there is a serious crisis of trust between us and Paradox on Stellaris. Perhaps these are only small numbers in the grand scheme of things, but I can only speak about what I see and experience. Until now I got every DLC on launch like a well-behaved game enthusiast because I expected the funds would go to continued support; I am yet to see a return on a large part of that investment. I, for my part, can't work on the basis of faith alone anymore; I need to see a clear recovery roadmap for this game worthy of the IMF.

 

[Tech Noir Synth]

Again Hiveminds are getting shafted and left out. First thing I thought when I read "parasites" was something unique for Hiveminds. Something similar to Driven Assimilator - but for Biological pops or Hiveminds. But again they get nothing.

Also no comment about the state of the game, the broken crisis. The horrible micromanagement. The automation which is utter garbage. The AI which is unable to play the game properly.

I do not see how introducing more micromanagement by having to sacrifice your pops every 10 years is fun. Micromanagement is one key part in why everyone stops enjoying the game. And now you add more of it. This just looks like a micro-intensive assimilation to me. The same effect could have been achieved if you simply used to assimilation system which is already in the game. And Hiveminds have the least interesting civics in the game. This would have been the perfect opportunity to introduce more variation for Hiveminds, which they need. But again they are ignored.

We are just going to not buy anything and quit playing Stellaris as long as the game remains broken. If you don't act, you don't get anything from us. Its your choice whether or not you want to change this, or not.

 

[Methone]

I do not see how introducing more micromanagement by having to sacrifice your pops every 10 years is fun.

I was under the impression that any pops in the 'We're gonna die' job get automatically sacrificed every 10 years?

But yeah, seriously, what the hell are they doing leaving Hives, of ALL empires, out of an Infestation-style empire?

 

[DrFranknfurter]

Again Hiveminds are getting shafted and left out. First thing I thought when I read "parasites" was something unique for Hiveminds. Something similar to Driven Assimilator - but for Biological pops or Hiveminds. But again they get nothing.

Also no comment about the state of the game, the broken crisis. The horrible micromanagement. The automation which is utter garbage. The AI which is unable to play the game properly.

I do not see how introducing more micromanagement by having to sacrifice your pops every 10 years is fun. Micromanagement is one key part in why everyone stops enjoying the game. And now you add more of it. This just looks like a micro-intensive assimilation to me. The same effect could have been achieved if you simply used to assimilation system which is already in the game. And Hiveminds have the least interesting civics in the game. This would have been the perfect opportunity to introduce more variation for Hiveminds, which they need. But again they are ignored.

We are just going to not buy anything and quit playing Stellaris as long as the game remains broken. If you don't act, you don't get anything from us. Its your choice whether or not you want to change this, or not.

I see Tech Noir Synth as the arbiter, ambassador and herald of all Gestalt beings. Sometimes when I read proposed changes to the game I think the changes are intentionally bad to spite you personally. Always campaigning for biological hive minds to have more distinct civics and gameplay options, for any changes to machines to be carefully balanced... and then to be offered what appears to be an olive branch: A new Parasitic species...

But not for you. Lovers of Gestalt entities. You get nothing.

I love Gestalts too, I do wish one day they were defined by something extra they get (like larvae, computing power, queens, unique districts etc.) and not the things removed from them (like consumer goods, happiness, ethics, factions, trade... etc). A Parasitic civic/origin/trait could have been a fine addition... instead they get nothing.

I was under the impression that any pops in the 'We're gonna die' job get automatically sacrificed every 10 years?

It looks like it's automatic for the necrophage BUT manual for the death cult:

Death Cults that have Mortal Initiate positions filled gain access to three new Sacrifice Edicts that let them perform the ritual slaughter to the gods (or whatever force your empire’s pops believe in). They’re a bit fickle though, and the magnitude of the benefits varies, but the more blood that is shed, the more likely you are to get the better blessings.

Sacrifice: Togetherness edict - let’s remember the good times we had together

Note the "Lasts 5 years 6 months" which means it requires a click every 5 years and 6 months (not a continuous edict). So no, not automatic.

 

[Pale Blue]

Note the "Lasts 5 years 6 months" which means it requires a click every 5 years and 6 months (not a continuous edict). So no, not automatic.

It's not just a micro hell, but the sacrifice job is utter garbage and should never be used if anything else is available. Even a clerk is of better use. That means you are encouraged to open the jobs, get them worked, enact the edict to kill them,close the job for the next few years.

The new origin also seems to be micro hell. Do the pops working the job get converted if they worked ten years in it? What happens if AI shuffles the pops, does the ten year timer get reset. Does it just happen every ten years regardless if the job was worked in-between? If that's the case it is even more micro, because you could again put those pops to work in an actually useful job. And why do we have these clunky job construct to begin with, if we have already a way to assimilate pops in the living standard?
Introduce a living standard "Host-species" that whenever it is working a specialist or ruler job it gets converted. That would be a lot less hassle for the player.

 

[Kayden_II]

"Nice", an other dd about 1 origin and 3 civics any hobby-modder can still add to the game by him-/herself.

Oh and "nice" x2, next week, it's just about portraits.

More like "Let's not make promises and then disappoint."

This phrase doesn't work that well if ( as a fact ) 01. Paradox keeps rolling out DLC after DLC instead and 02. in the meantime ( aka the small / mid / long / infinite time-frame in which no promises are actually made ). Nicely written, this phrase looks like self-protection in order to avoid that Paradox will contradict itself 01. any further and 02. in the future, but meanwhile, let us not forget that the DLC-train keeps rolling. Not so nicely written, this phrase looks like an opt-out that keeps the option open that Paradox doesn't have to deliver or to work on or even to try the stuff these promises would otherwise cover ( if actually formulated ), but meanwhile, let us still not forget that the DLC-train keeps still rolling.

There's also this reply on that DD from the Game Director: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...d-ships-the-art-process.1429333/post-26974964

Yeah, that's the most illusive, un-detailed and non-committal assurance ( in terms of corporate language ) I've ever read: It's "likely" ( or not ) that "something" ( actual solutions in regards to popular issues like crisis AI, military AI, performance etc. ) could come "sometime", but only "when" ( if ) Paradox does anything in that regard ? Call me overly negative aka "toxic", but this looks like an official announcement to spam DLCs, but to scam with patches. Do you actually know the reason why people had reluctantly endured ( not accepted ! ) these very same issues right from the start aka the release-day of Stellaris back in may 2016 aka 4,5+ years ago ? Just a tip, but Paradox had the reputation that their games evolve like wine. Well, that was a metaphor, but now it looks like that Paradox takes it quite literally that it takes what ? Additional 5, 10 or 15 years until Stellaris overcomes its problematic state ? Maybe never ? Besides that and nevertheless, let us still not forget my little reminder that the DLC-train keeps still rolling.

 

[Lorenerd11]

Aw, can't have gestalt necrophages? I have a Devouring Swarm that is more like a parasitic fungoid infestation, and I feel like it would've been perfect for this.

 

[ImperatorDecens]

Upon further thought, I feel like Necrophage is the unliving embodiment of how some play void dweller, use the Necrophage for main world/big brain work milking the specialist bonus, use the unfortunate souls to populate and spread.

I hope you can have a Lithoid Necrophage. All the lifespan, - 125% growth speed(ish). It may not be truly viable, but as someone on the Discord said "Crystalizing a xeno into a Lithoid sounds metal as F***."

It should be playable since the Necrophage Origin states pop mineral upkeep -50%.

I have plans for a litho-necroid species called the Necroliths. They basically formed a sort of symbiosis/evolution with a sapient Mantid race where they were turned into crystalized versions.

 

[Lorenerd11]

I have plans for a litho-necroid species called the Necroliths. They basically formed a sort of symbiosis/evolution with a sapient Mantid race where they were turned into crystalized versions.

There's a handful of lithoids that seem to bear a physical resemblance to existing organic portraits, which does seem particularly useful for something like this!

 

[ImperatorDecens]

I've never had issues with conquering primitives or rushing down other empires early on even as slavers; if my stability target is 20% instead of 40% it's even easier. You can always resettle some of the primitives back to your homeworld to dilute the unhappiness and avoid stellar culture shock. The conversion rate doesn't matter; more pops is always better then less pops, and an origin that effectively nearly triples your starting pops and makes your first two colonizations almost free is ridiculous.

Also if Lithoids are compatible one can use the monoliths on the homeworld to create a few more pops. The extra Habitability means they can be comfortable as leaders on almost any planet type really. +130 to the leader lifespan, add Meritocracy and you get quite a bit of Specialist output too. Grab Memorialist and with your Chamber of Elevation you can easily have another +10 Stability or more.

Do you one better and trigger the Horizon Signal though and get your Necrophage and thralls tomb world Habitability and several more planets to grow on. With each colony created you would get like 4 more of your Necrophage pops with the Expansion tree too.

 

[ImperatorDecens]

I will say I am enjoying the options this Species Pack will bring to the table. A lot of people are upset that it seems lackluster but this is the second species pack to actually offer new content besides portraits and other artwork with Lithoids being the first. Humanoids and Plantoids will always be the lackluster packs.

With Covid ongoing plans for fixes and larger content may very well be struggling and/or delayed so they went with this more art-intensive flavor more than anything else.

That being said the Chamber of Elevation with it's new way of Assimilation seems to be a great test for the devs to perhaps and the reasoning why Hives are excluded from the origin is due to those future changes that might be an overhaul for said system.

Yeah are there things I want to see fixed in the game? Yes, namely the fleet management system where fleets get confused on recruitment, the small vassalized Nations or enlightened ones not expanding properly / same with the sector management. The End Crises are usually bugged for me ( my three end game saves ended die to the Contingency not being considered destroyed) The Khan needs to be reworked due to the current state of the game as does the raiding from Marauders need looked into.

I don't play with mods and I am more of an RP-intensive guy though so I make do. This pack is a dream for me and I can't wait to "crystallize" my MP friends as my Necroliths.

 

[ImperatorDecens]

That movie is exactly how i was thinking the civic would work

My Necrolith idea is playing it out that deceased Necroliths are either recycled into the ships and structures or are preserves as golem like statues that can be reanimated for defense and war. So more like a Tomb King like army.

 

[caffrn]

There's also this reply on that DD from the Game Director: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...d-ships-the-art-process.1429333/post-26974964

For almost 2 years we are pointing out always the same problems with the game like AI, micromanagement, balance and performance. Since then, only the performance improved after a shitstorm on reddit and in the media like the german Gamestar. "Soon" isn't a satisfying answer after almost 2 years. Do we need the next reddit thread to get something improved?

 

[Zagreb 887]

There's also this reply on that DD from the Game Director: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...d-ships-the-art-process.1429333/post-26974964

You can't be serious writing this and quoting the most elusive post on the topic of game improvement.

There is nothing in this post, just the mention that maybe one day devs will be working on some QOL, and this will eventualy go to beta.

What are they working about? How many months of silence should we wait until just you guys let us know the matter of those QOL improvements?

How many cosmetic DLC should we endure before having a real overhaul of the game?
I remind you it's for more than 2 Years that those so badly needed fixed are asked!
Please can we have some respect? Because when I read something like this, it just look like your marketing team think we are stupid, brainless fanboys just good for acclaming the least of your posts, and trowhing cash to buy anything you offer us.

No consideration, any criticism is seen as "toxicity". Thread suppressed or compressed in "megathread", all we have is merchandising DD and despitful silence.
You really are communication masters for sure...

 

[Zoomy]

So how will Necrophage and Fanatic Purifiers interact? Will alien pops be allowed to convert, or are they auto-purged like always?