Stellaris Dev Diary #160 - Origins Full Reveal

[BlackUmbrellas]

For that matter, having multiple nations on a single world would be possible too. You just have to decide how to split the districts/tile blockers between two separate "colonies" that share the same planet, and the buildings would work just as they currently do. If one faction takes over more of the planet, they can just get a larger share of the planet's districts, and maybe some of the pops/buildings as well. Of course, you would have to ensure that some planetary decisions (like Mastery of Nature) could only be taken once, but it isn't completely impossible to figure out a way to make this work.

"Split ownership of planets" would require EXTENSIVE changes to the underlying code and event infrastructure. It's never gonna happen.

 

[Alfray Stryke]

If they develop naturally, they get the default Origin. If they are enlightened by a spacefaring empire, they get a special Enlightened Origin. It has no special mechanics, but it's a nice bit of flavor.

Cheers! I appreciate the extra info. Can you share what origins (and their mechanical effects) the various Fallen Empires, crisis empires and the machine uprising will get?

 

[UnitedBlorgFreinds]

Hello. Just saying that I am quite exited for all the origins. Am a fan of Paradox games (but have never finished any. Am just a noob with 300 hours in stellaris.)

 

[Shadowstrike]

"Split ownership of planets" would require EXTENSIVE changes to the underlying code and event infrastructure. It's never gonna happen.

It really wouldn't. Treat as if each nation had its own colony on a planet, and split the districts/features between them, and add in a check to planet-wide effects (like terraforming) and events that affect the whole planet. The only features that would be needed would be some mechanism for fighting over territory on the planet: presumably some version of the ground combat, where the resolution leads to gains/losses in some fraction of districts/features/pops.

 

[holyrome]

If Fallen Empires are set to 0 and a player still picks Scion, it will force spawn a one-system Fallen Empire. The AI will never get the Scion Origin if FEs have been turned off, though.

Ah ok. Thank you! I'm looking forward to Federations!

 

[BlackUmbrellas]

It really wouldn't. Treat as if each nation had its own colony on a planet, and split the districts/features between them, and add in a check to planet-wide effects (like terraforming) and events that affect the whole planet. The only features that would be needed would be some mechanism for fighting over territory on the planet: presumably some version of the ground combat, where the resolution leads to gains/losses in some fraction of districts/features/pops.

Even a cursory examination of the code would show you that it's nowhere near that simple.

 

[Shadowstrike]

Even a cursory examination of the code would show you that it's nowhere near that simple.

Want to explain why, instead of just asserting this is true?

 

[Methone]

Want to explain why, instead of just asserting this is true?

This is akin to asking "Want to explain why 1+1=2, instead of just asserting this is true?"

 

[BlackUmbrellas]

Want to explain why, instead of just asserting this is true?

I'm not going to go digging through my game files to appease you when you could look at your own game files and learn how they're put together and why "sharing planets" would require such an utterly extensive reworking of the game's underlying framework.

 

[UnitedBlorgFreinds]

Want to explain why, instead of just asserting this is true?

Think about it. How would you go about allowing this? Maybe make all planets work like ringworlds? But that leads to people colonizing each planet multiple times instead of multiple people colonizing each planet. And then how would armies work? With ringworlds it makes some degree of sense that Defense armies would only be able to protect 1 segment. But on a planet the size of earth it would make no sense because modern armies can respond to threats anywhere in the world. And that doesn’t even get into ballence issues.

 

[Cannes]

Wow some epic storytelling opportunities!

 

[Pale Blue]

In Scion, you will start as a vassal of either the spiritualist or materialist Fallen Empires. If you're spiritualist or materialist, it will pick the one that mirrors your ethic. Otherwise it's randomized. For the Origins where you start in a federation, the other two members are randomized but their ethics will largely reflect those of your empire.

If you play as a machine empire will your overlord be the machine fallen empire? The spiritualist and the materialist fallen empire don't like advanced AI. I think that neither of them would want a machine scion.

 

[UnitedBlorgFreinds]

If you play as a machine empire will your overlord be the machine fallen empire? The spiritualist and the materialist fallen empire don't like advanced AI. I think that neither of them would want a machine scion.

But why would the materialist fallen empire dislike advanced AI? Correct me if I’m wrong, but having the materialist ethic for your empire means that you have to allow robotic workers and cannot outlaw AI.

EDIT: I just checked the wiki, and that is only part of the materialist AE subject type during the War in Heaven. We know that this will be a new subject type, and the wiki also said nothing about how that affects MEs.

 

[Pale Blue]

But why would the materialist fallen empire dislike advanced AI? Correct me if I’m wrong, but having the materialist ethic for your empire means that you have to allow robotic workers and cannot outlaw AI.

I don't know why they dislike it, just that they do. One of the effects imposed on their subjects is to force you to outlaw AI. It doesn't make sense for materialist subjects too, because robots are one of the defining materialist things in stellaris, but for machine empires it makes even less sense. Regular empires are at least organic.

 

[UnitedBlorgFreinds]

I don't know why they dislike it, just that they do. One of the effects imposed on their subjects is to force you to outlaw AI. It doesn't make sense for materialist subjects too, because robots are one of the defining materialist things in stellaris, but for machine empires it makes even less sense. Regular empires are at least organic.

Also, the spiritualist AE vassal type simply ethics shifts you towards fanatic spiritualist, so the spiritualist AE is more tolerant of AIs then the materialist AE.

 

[Pale Blue]

But why would the materialist fallen empire dislike advanced AI? Correct me if I’m wrong, but having the materialist ethic for your empire means that you have to allow robotic workers and cannot outlaw AI.

EDIT: I just checked the wiki, and that is only part of the materialist AE subject type during the War in Heaven. We know that this will be a new subject type, and the wiki also said nothing about how that affects MEs.

Also, the spiritualist AE vassal type simply ethics shifts you towards fanatic spiritualist, so the spiritualist AE is more tolerant of AIs then the materialist AE.

Even if the Scion origin gets a unique subject type, I find it a bit odd that the materialist FE dislikes AI in another subject type. I think that they stance on AI should change and their demands from subjects too. Maybe force every species into academic privilege and increase the research % they demand from them.

 

[Methone]

Even if the Scion origin gets a unique subject type, I find it a bit odd that the materialist FE dislikes AI in another subject type. I think that they stance on AI should change and their demands from subjects too. Maybe force every species into academic privilege and increase the research % they demand from them.

Well keep in mind, they have Jump Drives, and still had them even when their thing was to get mad at people researching dangerous tech; like Jump Drives.

"We know how to use this dangerous technology because we are ancient and wise. But the foolish children need to be steered away from it."

Kinda wish they got mad at dangerous research again.

 

[The Founder]

Would it be possible to have Machine Intelligences get the Tree of Life? I'm thinking of something that would allow me to recreate the Vex from Destiny lore, which in the terms of Stellaris would be Driven Assimilators that make everything "Fit the Pattern." One sect of the Vex in particular maintains something called the "Black Garden," in which they integrate themselves into the ecosystem of a great natural order in something that is almost spiritual while ruthlessly exterminating/integrating intruders. First thing that came to mind when I read the Tree of Life!

Currently it seemsd to be strictly limited to Organic Hiveminds. Personally I would like if as a option for all Empires. I did write about all the things I could make with that.

Want to explain why, instead of just asserting this is true?

Want to explain how exactly it comes to the planet being colonized by two empires?
The main reason to grab space is so nobody will put a colony there.

If you play as a machine empire will your overlord be the machine fallen empire? The spiritualist and the materialist fallen empire don't like advanced AI. I think that neither of them would want a machine scion.

Who says this Origin is avalible for Machine Intelligences?

I don't know why they dislike it, just that they do. One of the effects imposed on their subjects is to force you to outlaw AI. It doesn't make sense for materialist subjects too, because robots are one of the defining materialist things in stellaris, but for machine empires it makes even less sense. Regular empires are at least organic.

Even if the Scion origin gets a unique subject type, I find it a bit odd that the materialist FE dislikes AI in another subject type. I think that they stance on AI should change and their demands from subjects too. Maybe force every species into academic privilege and increase the research % they demand from them.

AI and Robot Workers are not the same thing. They have not been the same thing for...I can not remmeber how many versions. It think it was that way somewhere between Species Rights and the Current Economic System.

 

[Duuk]

Well keep in mind, they have Jump Drives, and still had them even when their thing was to get mad at people researching dangerous tech; like Jump Drives.

"We know how to use this dangerous technology because we are ancient and wise. But the foolish children need to be steered away from it."

Kinda wish they got mad at dangerous research again.

I *really* miss the way the old Crisis stuff worked. That researching the high end techs would trigger the unbidden or an AI revolt rather than "the contingency". One reason it took me so long to figure out how massively over powered machine-empires and robot pops are is that I still have a built-in hatred of everything AI because of my first thing being "outlaw robots/AI. Avoid AI techs. That's one crisis avoided."

 

[Pale Blue]

Will certain origins continue to lock out some civic options? Currently you can't create an agrarian idyll tomb world or a syncretic species combined with slaver guilds.