Stellaris Dev Diary #160 - Origins Full Reveal

[Prometheus_1]

You could NEVER share a single planet, though.

You can with some I think... titanic creatures , the underground dwellers are some that come to my mind.

 

[PuckTheVagabond]

I was totally expecting more civics to be converted to origins. Notably the genocidals and weird ones like Barbaric Despoilers and Inward Perfection.

Well those are more Government based civics, the origins are more purposed towards how your government came to be and how it was unified, like why is your world dead and destroyed? We nuked it in a nuclear because we are a very war like species and tend to have very militaristic governments.

 

[WhiteKyubey]

As your homeworld disintegrates, you will be getting various production bonuses... but this is supposed to be a challenging Origin that forces you out of your comfort zone and perhaps makes you play the game in ways you normally wouldn't, just to survive.

I really wish if this origin gives you some mid/late game effects too, if you make some special actions with your homeworld.
For example:
Spiritualists can make it super-holy world with Consecrated Worlds perk.
Other empires are given special museum-type building, if they build a habitat on it's orbit.
A ringworld in the homesystem can be given an extra migration pull.

 

[Prometheus_1]

Uh, yeah, that's not in the game since 2.0. The only way to 'share' a system is to share it with primitives.

Yes I suppose so... but perhaps a new expansion could implenent a shared planet/system.

 

[BlackUmbrellas]

Thank God. But while we're on it, is there any ideas in the works to make Hive Minds beyond Generic and Zerg?

I'd argue that "Zerg" is the generic Hivemind. Devouring Swarms are something else.

 

[BlackUmbrellas]

You can with some I think... titanic creatures , the underground dwellers are some that come to my mind.

Well, no. Those aren't two distinct species and associated empires sharing a planet mechanically- they're "you own this planet, and an event can potentially spawn hostile armies".

 

[morangias]

This is such a bad faith argument. Are we really meant to believe that you don't see the difference between general features that everyone can use and Hive Mind-specific stuff that's reserved exclusively for them. And then you bring up a precursor civ that has zero mechanical ties to Hive Minds solely for lore fluff. The only thing in that big post of yours that's actually a relevant comparison is the terravore civic, and that's obviously different since it requires both Hive minds (which is a Utopia feature) and Lithoids (which is a Lithoids feature) to work, so obviously it must require both expansions.

With the exception of Ancient Relics content and extra Megastructures from Megacorp, everything I've listed has empire traits as prerequisites, even if they're as broad as "don't have a Genocidal Civic" in the case of such features. What's the big difference between Enclaves being restricted to non-Genocidals, Shared Burdens being limited to Democracies (by way of requiring Fan. Egalitarian) and Tree of Life being limited to Hive Minds?

To clarify my position on this. Features/content/mechanics should never be locked behind two separate expansions unless it's actually necessary because they utilize the mechanics of two different dlc (the only examples of this so far are the special Titan for Driven Assimilators and the special Hive Mind features for Lithoids). Doing so goes against the principle of getting the thing you paid for, undermines the whole point of the independent dlc model that Paradox has utilized since CK2, and is just shifty business practice in general.

I see where you're coming from, but only agree to a point. If Paradox were to hide a rework of Hive Civics and/or other mechanics behind a new DLC, I'd be the first to cry foul. But I do believe if new content feels sufficiently new and - for a lack of better word - optional, or maybe extraneous to the existing experience, then it is fair for Paradox to consider it separately paid content, and I do believe the Tree of Life Origin does meet said criteria. I do not feel being asked to pay for it violates my promise of being able to play Hive Minds with the purchase of Utopia, because that promise didn't implicitly or explicitly contain the specific promise of being able to play a Hive Mind living in a symbiosis with a planet-spanning supertree (as a distinct game mechanic, not a piece of fluff I can attach to an empire's description). Nor did it contain an implicit or explicit promise to be able to play every piece of content locked behind a Hive Mind government type (vide the Lithoids Civic). I do believe such an expectation has no basis in either law or good practice, and comes purely from a sense of entitlement.

 

[morangias]

I'd argue that "Zerg" is the generic Hivemind. Devouring Swarms are something else.

It's a bit of a grey territorry. Theoretically, the Zerg assimilated encountered species, which in Stellaris terms would imply a generic Hivemind that conquers and assimilates. Practically, with the exception of certain human-Zerg hybrids, the Zerg seemed to mostly "assimilate" by ingesting encountered species and adding interesting genetic adaptations to their own pool for spawning monstrous warforms, which feels like it falls within the purview of the Devouring Swarm.

 

[Methone]

which feels like it falls within the purview of the Devouring Swarm.

"Gains society research by eating xeno pops."

 

[morangias]

Scion: Start as the vassal of a Fallen Empire. (Federations)
Someone, please help the question. So what is benefit of being the vassal of the Fallen Empire?

So you can run the Dominion properly, i.e. as a slave to the Founders?

 

[Methone]

Here's another question, about the Lithoid Meteor origin.

Let's say you're a multispecies Lithoid empire. You get a second species of Lithoid in your empire. Can you send that second species on a meteor, and will the Monoliths spawned by that meteor make the second species, or YOUR species?

And what if you get a traditional organic in your empire? Can you load up humans into a meteor and chuck them at a planet? Will that meteor still spawn Monoliths and, if so, of what species? Surely not human monoliths.

Also, will Meteor Colonization still have the 'setting up a colony' wait stage?

 

[BlackUmbrellas]

It's a bit of a grey territorry. Theoretically, the Zerg assimilated encountered species, which in Stellaris terms would imply a generic Hivemind that conquers and assimilates. Practically, with the exception of certain human-Zerg hybrids, the Zerg seemed to mostly "assimilate" by ingesting encountered species and adding interesting genetic adaptations to their own pool for spawning monstrous warforms, which feels like it falls within the purview of the Devouring Swarm.

Well. There's a canon split with SC2's material compared to the original material (in a few places- I'm overall not very fond of SC2's retcons). Original Zerg lore indicates that they were originally a pretty regular "neural parasite" native to a volcanic world similar to Char- the larva are the closest remaining form, or maybe the cerebrates as like... giant versions. They'd latch onto a host organism and use mutagens to genetically reshape and mutate it into a more aggressive form.

Then the Xel-Naga took that and amplified it until the Zerg could store a huge pool of "remembered" genetic templates in their genetic memory.

 

[korawit13]

Thank for you all. I get it. I will wait for the detail then.

 

[Methone]

Another curiosity about the Lithoid Meteors.

Let's say we come across a 0% Habitable Tomb world (Well, 50% with the Lithoid trait). So we smash a meteor into it, get Monoliths, then awaken those monoliths into pops.

Then we resettle every pop and send another meteor. Does the -50% habitability stack? Can we just rinse and repeat this to keep making pops for the relatively low cost of 1000 minerals + colony ship?

If the -50% habitability stacks, what happens if you'd do this to a Gaia world? It is my understanding that Gaias are programmed with something like +999% habitability, so that modifiers like Unstable Tectonics can't even dent their 100% habitability. What happens if you spam a bunch of Lithoid Meteors onto it? Would they eventually 'break through' to lower-than-100% Gaia habitability? Or is Gaia just hard locked to 100% no matter what?

Also, does meteor-ing a world Devastate it too?

 

[G S Palmer]

How about a new achievement: Unsentimental - build a ringworld in your former home system after starting with the Doomsday origin, destroying the last remnants of your former homeworld.

 

[Methone]

How about a new achievement: Unsentimental - build a ringworld in your former home system after starting with the Doomsday origin, destroying the last remnants of your former homeworld.

0/10, not a Lithoid pun with Unsedimental.

 

[The Founder]

I was asking the same thing. Why would I pick something that's basically putting a gun to my own head!?

Not all players play the game to minmax everything, some roleplay a species/empire.

To quote the Opening Post:

Origins are not meant to be balanced against each other, but rather balanced within themselves (as in they don't start in severe resource deficits or "feel broken" by themselves). There are Origins that are "stronger" than other Origins.

Did it really take you that long to come up with a reply this stale? Bravo.

No, memory access does not take long.
So what does the Event have to do with AI and Performance? Or what missspelling did you make? I am sorry, but I can not read your mind and require you to communicate things via human language.

Hm. Alright, that makes sense, but what would that cost? Would it be a decision, or... There's a lot I want to know about how this Tree of Life works, because hiveminds really do need the love.

Details are still not in stone. Propably something around teh difference between a normal and Tree of Live colonyship?

I hope that the Doomsday origin adds increasingly large migration push to the homeworld. It makes sense and helps egalitarians get some of their people off the doomed planet.

Migration push and Resetellement cost reduction.
Also they could jsut force-allow resettlement for pops away from the home planet.

To clarify my position on this. Features/content/mechanics should never be locked behind two separate expansions unless it's actually necessary because they utilize the mechanics of two different dlc (the only examples of this so far are the special Titan for Driven Assimilators and the special Hive Mind features for Lithoids). Doing so goes against the principle of getting the thing you paid for, undermines the whole point of the independent dlc model that Paradox has utilized since CK2, and is just shifty business practice in general.

Locking stuff behind 2 DLC is not a bad thing, as long as it is a OR connection.
If they ever made something AND connected, I would be peeved too.

Well those are more Government based civics, the origins are more purposed towards how your government came to be and how it was unified, like why is your world dead and destroyed? We nuked it in a nuclear because we are a very war like species and tend to have very militaristic governments.

Past tense please
"We nuked it in a nuclear because we were a very war like species and used to have very militaristic governments."

I really wish if this origin gives you some mid/late game effects too, if you make some special actions with your homeworld.
For example:
Spiritualists can make it super-holy world with Consecrated Worlds perk.
Other empires are given special museum-type building, if they build a habitat on it's orbit.
A ringworld in the homesystem can be given an extra migration pull.

The value of a Holy world is proportional to how valuable it would be to colonize it.

And again: This Origin more so then any others, is not intended to be balanced against the others.

Well, no. Those aren't two distinct species and associated empires sharing a planet mechanically- they're "you own this planet, and an event can potentially spawn hostile armies".

Having multiple Countries truly own a planet - not just in a Branch Office way - is just a can of worms that is best left burried in the backyard.

 

[Crocmon]

Hello! First time poster on the forums here (I think, it's been so long since I set up the account!), and a bit of an odd question for the Tree of Life.

Would it be possible to have Machine Intelligences get the Tree of Life? I'm thinking of something that would allow me to recreate the Vex from Destiny lore, which in the terms of Stellaris would be Driven Assimilators that make everything "Fit the Pattern." One sect of the Vex in particular maintains something called the "Black Garden," in which they integrate themselves into the ecosystem of a great natural order in something that is almost spiritual while ruthlessly exterminating/integrating intruders. First thing that came to mind when I read the Tree of Life!

I know it's walking the line of giving machines more goodies, but I'd love to play a Machine Empire that has a different background story than the ones we can make already. If it helps, perhaps the "Sowers" of the first Endless Space would make a better fit for this Origin on a Machine?

 

[Spaceception]

So, what's the Great Khan's role in the galactic community (if at all)? Are they treated like a crisis to mobilize against (same with the Tempest)? And what happens when they fall and have planets? Does the GC have temporary sanctions against them? Or do we pretend like nothing happened?

 

[Shadowstrike]

I would like to see split systems (where one empire controls one habitable world, and the other empire controls another one) come back. This was possible before 2.0, and it was kind of neat. You would probably have to come up with some way of determining who controls which space stations, and how to deal with the single outpost in the system, but that seems solvable.

For that matter, having multiple nations on a single world would be possible too. You just have to decide how to split the districts/tile blockers between two separate "colonies" that share the same planet, and the buildings would work just as they currently do. If one faction takes over more of the planet, they can just get a larger share of the planet's districts, and maybe some of the pops/buildings as well. Of course, you would have to ensure that some planetary decisions (like Mastery of Nature) could only be taken once, but it isn't completely impossible to figure out a way to make this work.