Stellaris Dev Diary #160 - Origins Full Reveal

[Monturiol]

Isn’t that a benefit for you though?

For me the human being trying to have fun by playing a vidya, yes.
For my star-empire, no.

 

[generalis Julius Caesar]

Could you add De Jure sectors that give you free claims. CK II style

 

[Eladrin]

Lots of stuff to catch up on.

Or, if the starting race was plantoids, and the vegetation reclaiming the city is a distant branch down their evolutionary tree. Second-degree cannibalism, twice removed!

I will always support any headcanon that has the end result of cannibalism.

Though, the idea of fanatic egalitarian meritocratic void dwellers on an ecumenopolis is frankly terrifying.

You're spying on my current game, aren't you? (It's actually a Shared Burdens Void Dweller run, but it's still pretty interesting.)

"Scion" would be a new subject type.

Correct.

How will Void Dwellers and Lithoids interact? Presumably hydroponics won't spawn on the habitats, so what, if anything will spawn instead?

Lithoids have an altered start with Void Dwellers. They won't start with hydroponics techs, but instead start with some other things to make them not hate life. (Powered Exoskeletons and Space Mining instead of Eco Simulation and Hydroponics, and a different building loadout.)

• Your empire gains bonuses or penalties dependent on the presence or otherwise of the Tree. This is specifically living on a planet with a Tree of Life present. There isn't just one Tree of Life.
  
• Colony ships are more expensive, but will provide a tree of life sapling.

Put these two things together, and, although this is just conjecture so far on my part, a few conclusions can be drawn - There is no proviso for putting a Tree on worlds you conquer, meaning that you effectively get penalties to conquering planets.

You'll be able to transplant a sapling to planets that you conquer or that have had their tree destroyed.

If the Juggernaut can't build new ships, then it's just a Titan with nanobot aura, yes.

They should remove the description saying it's a mobile starbase then.

Using this definition, the Juggernaut is a mobile starbase. It can repair and replace normal losses in the field.

So what is benefit of being the vassal of the Fallen Empire?

You can spread the glory of the Hissma Chroniclers!

And as their favorite pets, you may get some treats if you're the goodest of blorgs.

 

[Me_]

Is Prosperous Unification also the default machine empire-start? Seems like a strange name for wiping out your creators.

 

[Alfray Stryke]

Is Prosperous Unification also the default machine empire-start? Seems like a strange name for wiping out your creators.

Sounds prosperous from the perspective of the machines.

 

[The Founder]

What exactly are you basing this "theory" on?

My theory is that it does exactly what it says it does.

Normally I would say your theory has not a leg to stand on.
But since they kept it very abstract, the mechanics are not yet fully defined. So I have to say: "Your theory does not have solid ground to stand on".

Ha hah, "reclaimed by nature." I get it. Though really, that just means the original builders didn't do their job right and missed a spot, because what kind of proper city world has vegetation to reclaim anything at all? Unless someone was growing daffodils on a windowsill or something...

Life....finds a way.

I mean we are talking about City Planets worth of Flower Pots. That is still a lot of Soil. The food side might still be a shorterm limited thing. I do remember the original Tombwolrd start, with it's way to few Food districts.

Based on this, I'm guessing that you have an asteroid in your home system that has punched through one of the ring segments. If I might make a suggestion, at least for lithoids, maybe said asteroid/another asteroid should have crash landed on your home district, giving you a few miner jobs not dependent on districts? Because it's a little bit odd that you managed to make it into space without any of the minerals needed to make alloys. Or the minerals needed to eat, if you're a lithoid.

Back when that happend there was still some Automatic Mining hardware in operation. It set up the station and delivery. You got to the space age by taking that over/revese engineering those ships.

I skipped a lot of posts, so not sure this is relevant anymore, but: without reading the flavor text, I see no reason that "prosperous unification" can't mean "prosperous unification by conquest".

Prosperous doesn't mean peaceful

I actually made teh same mistake at first, reading it as "Peacefull Unification".
I guess you can "say what you want about the Imperial Familiy, but at least the trains come on time."

I will always support any headcanon that has the end result of cannibalism.

If it works for Ants, it works for Rocks:
https://www.newsweek.com/cannibal-ants-soviet-nuclear-bunker-1469573

Using this definition, the Juggernaut is a mobile starbase. It can repair and replace normal losses in the field.

That is what we wanted to hear here

 

[The Founder]

Is Prosperous Unification also the default machine empire-start? Seems like a strange name for wiping out your creators.

Only the Determined Exterminators did wipe out their Creators. And it sounds like for them, Tomb World would be a better origin.

And of coruse there is the whole thing with Machine Integration sound way more powerffull then Propserous Unification anyway.

 

[The Founder]

You keep repeating that. Has that really been your experience with Megacorpse? Always working on Performance and AI?

"Megacorpse" is a random Event, that places some destruction and a Planet Modifier. I have no idea how "AI and Performance" have any impact on a Random Event?

 

[Everstill]

Using this definition, the Juggernaut is a mobile starbase. It can repair and replace normal losses in the field.

So the Juggernaut can build new ships?

Then the definition on the Federation page is correct. It IS mobile starbase.

 

[Delpheus]

Are there any bonuses to doomsday to compensate for the fact that you will inevitably lose what will probably be your most productive planet?

I was asking the same thing. Why would I pick something that's basically putting a gun to my own head!?

 

[hangry]

I was asking the same thing. Why would I pick something that's basically putting a gun to my own head!?

Not all players play the game to minmax everything, some roleplay a species/empire.

 

[Goosecreature]

I was asking the same thing. Why would I pick something that's basically putting a gun to my own head!?

As your homeworld disintegrates, you will be getting various production bonuses... but this is supposed to be a challenging Origin that forces you out of your comfort zone and perhaps makes you play the game in ways you normally wouldn't, just to survive.

 

[Marissa]

"Megacorpse" is a random Event, that places some destruction and a Planet Modifier. I have no idea how "AI and Performance" have any impact on a Random Event?

Did it really take you that long to come up with a reply this stale? Bravo.

 

[morangias]

I'm going to need you to fully explain how you came to that implication. You need 1 DLC to actually play Hive Minds, you need another to get another feature, add them together and you get the full features of Hiveminds, self-explanatory really.

Actually, it's not self-explanarory at all why you arbitrarily defined "full features of Hiveminds" as "Hive Mind Government and Civics from Utopia plus Tree of Life Origin from Federations".

I mean, Lithoids contains a modified Civic for Hive Minds, is it not also required for "full features of Hiveminds"? Non-Genocidal Hive Minds can interact with Enclaves and Caravaneers, shouldn't we count Leviathans and Megacorp towards "full features of Hiveminds"? Ditto with Megastructures from Megacorps. Hive Minds can also interact with dig sites and Relics, and one of the new Precursors is actually a hive mind, so why not count Ancient Relics towards "full features of a hive mind"?

If you disagree these things should count, why exactly do you think your hive mind experience can be "feature complete" without Terravores, Enclaves, Caravans, Strategic Coordination Centers etc., but not without the Tree of Life?

On the flip side, since Megacorp DLC introduces the Shared Burden Civic for "normal" (i.e. non-Gestalt, non-Megacorp) empires, should I say that Megacorp is necessary to access full features of a normal empire? Or maybe we should keep categorizing by government type and call it "full features of Democracy"? Seeing how almost every DLC introduces some content that's usable by at least a subset of "normal" empires, wouldn't you agree their definitions of "feature completeness" as categorized by government type would be so broad as to become meaningless?

Most importantly, what do you think are the implications of the way you define "full features of Hiveminds"? If you're not trying to imply Tree of Life should be free for Utopia users, then what other nugget of wisdom do you offer? What do I gain by saying "you need two DLC to access full features of Hiveminds" as opposed to "you need Utopia to play Hive Minds, and Federations contains a special Origin for Hive Minds only"? Why should the former be preferable to the latter?

 

[brbonfire]

You'll be able to transplant a sapling to planets that you conquer or that have had their tree destroyed.

Hm. Alright, that makes sense, but what would that cost? Would it be a decision, or... There's a lot I want to know about how this Tree of Life works, because hiveminds really do need the love.

 

[holyrome]

Lots of stuff to catch up on.


I will always support any headcanon that has the end result of cannibalism.


You're spying on my current game, aren't you? (It's actually a Shared Burdens Void Dweller run, but it's still pretty interesting.)


Correct.


Lithoids have an altered start with Void Dwellers. They won't start with hydroponics techs, but instead start with some other things to make them not hate life. (Powered Exoskeletons and Space Mining instead of Eco Simulation and Hydroponics, and a different building loadout.)


You'll be able to transplant a sapling to planets that you conquer or that have had their tree destroyed.


Using this definition, the Juggernaut is a mobile starbase. It can repair and replace normal losses in the field.


You can spread the glory of the Hissma Chroniclers!

And as their favorite pets, you may get some treats if you're the goodest of blorgs.

Question about scions: If we set the max fallen empires parameter to 0 before we launch a game, will it ensure that the player and the AI can't use that origin? I like to play without fallen empires sometimes.

 

[MrParadux]

I hope that the Doomsday origin adds increasingly large migration push to the homeworld. It makes sense and helps egalitarians get some of their people off the doomed planet.

 

[Methone]

You'll be able to transplant a sapling to planets that you conquer or that have had their tree destroyed.

Thank God. But while we're on it, is there any ideas in the works to make Hive Minds beyond Generic and Zerg?

Using this definition, the Juggernaut is a mobile starbase. It can repair and replace normal losses in the field.

Replace them, huh? I guess it IS a starbase proper! Thanks for the answers!

Question about scions: If we set the max fallen empires parameter to 0 before we launch a game, will it ensure that the player and the AI can't use that origin? I like to play without fallen empires sometimes

Also, this.

 

[Druplesnubb]

Actually, it's not self-explanarory at all why you arbitrarily defined "full features of Hiveminds" as "Hive Mind Government and Civics from Utopia plus Tree of Life Origin from Federations".

I mean, Lithoids contains a modified Civic for Hive Minds, is it not also required for "full features of Hiveminds"? Non-Genocidal Hive Minds can interact with Enclaves and Caravaneers, shouldn't we count Leviathans and Megacorp towards "full features of Hiveminds"? Ditto with Megastructures from Megacorps. Hive Minds can also interact with dig sites and Relics, and one of the new Precursors is actually a hive mind, so why not count Ancient Relics towards "full features of a hive mind"?

If you disagree these things should count, why exactly do you think your hive mind experience can be "feature complete" without Terravores, Enclaves, Caravans, Strategic Coordination Centers etc., but not without the Tree of Life?

On the flip side, since Megacorp DLC introduces the Shared Burden Civic for "normal" (i.e. non-Gestalt, non-Megacorp) empires, should I say that Megacorp is necessary to access full features of a normal empire? Or maybe we should keep categorizing by government type and call it "full features of Democracy"? Seeing how almost every DLC introduces some content that's usable by at least a subset of "normal" empires, wouldn't you agree their definitions of "feature completeness" as categorized by government type would be so broad as to become meaningless?

Most importantly, what do you think are the implications of the way you define "full features of Hiveminds"? If you're not trying to imply Tree of Life should be free for Utopia users, then what other nugget of wisdom do you offer? What do I gain by saying "you need two DLC to access full features of Hiveminds" as opposed to "you need Utopia to play Hive Minds, and Federations contains a special Origin for Hive Minds only"? Why should the former be preferable to the latter?

This is such a bad faith argument. Are we really meant to believe that you don't see the difference between general features that everyone can use and Hive Mind-specific stuff that's reserved exclusively for them. And then you bring up a precursor civ that has zero mechanical ties to Hive Minds solely for lore fluff. The only thing in that big post of yours that's actually a relevant comparison is the terravore civic, and that's obviously different since it requires both Hive minds (which is a Utopia feature) and Lithoids (which is a Lithoids feature) to work, so obviously it must require both expansions.

 

[Druplesnubb]

To clarify my position on this. Features/content/mechanics should never be locked behind two separate expansions unless it's actually necessary because they utilize the mechanics of two different dlc (the only examples of this so far are the special Titan for Driven Assimilators and the special Hive Mind features for Lithoids). Doing so goes against the principle of getting the thing you paid for, undermines the whole point of the independent dlc model that Paradox has utilized since CK2, and is just shifty business practice in general.