Stellaris Dev Diary #160 - Origins Full Reveal

[BlackUmbrellas]

This old chestnut again. Weak or Overpowered traits are bad for the game, both for solo and multiplayer. You seem to imply that anyone doing a "Roleplaying" run through is on some sort of masochistic trip and should suffer from a sub optimal build.
There are also many groups of friends who enjoy multiplayer RP games of Stellaris. Should they be forced to ban some overpowered traits or avoid useless ones?

Singleplayer and Multiplayer balance entail very different things, is the thing.

Multiplayer balance requires as level a playing field as possible. Singleplayer balance acknowledges that your opponents are all just dumb AI and that asymmetrical design is fine. Are there things that are currently totally broken in a bad way? Yes, absolutely- machines regularly munching the entire galaxy is an example of that. I want that fixed.

But I don't want the game balanced around multiplayer.

 

[Pyzayt]

Singleplayer and Multiplayer balance entail very different things, is the thing.

Multiplayer balance requires as level a playing field as possible. Singleplayer balance acknowledges that your opponents are all just dumb AI and that asymmetrical design is fine. Are there things that are currently totally broken in a bad way? Yes, absolutely- machines regularly munching the entire galaxy is an example of that. I want that fixed.

But I don't want the game balanced around multiplayer.

Stellaris is not a balanced game, and that's okay. Some things are inherently overpowered, and some things are inherently sub-optimal. Some things combine and spiral out of control into an unstoppable death-machine that devours galaxies, and some are merely standard. And that's okay.

Stellaris is a game. Games are about having fun. And if the devs decided to rebalance everything so multiplayer was a completely level playing field, that would steal a lot of the fun. It's fun to be the dominating galactic power, washing over your enemies as a tide of death. And it's fun to be the underdog, scoring the unexpected but very needed victory. I don't want that taken away from me. I don't want to see Stellaris balanced around multiplayer.

 

[Pointyearedgit]

Stellaris is not a balanced game, and that's okay. Some things are inherently overpowered, and some things are inherently sub-optimal. Some things combine and spiral out of control into an unstoppable death-machine that devours galaxies, and some are merely standard. And that's okay.

Stellaris is a game. Games are about having fun. And if the devs decided to rebalance everything so multiplayer was a completely level playing field, that would steal a lot of the fun. It's fun to be the dominating galactic power, washing over your enemies as a tide of death. And it's fun to be the underdog, scoring the unexpected but very needed victory. I don't want that taken away from me. I don't want to see Stellaris balanced around multiplayer.

Agreed, and it already isn’t balanced, player controlled purifiers can coordinate their actions where purifiers in game would never communicate, for example. The worm, Cybrex, unique systems etc etc etc etc.

If you want to RP multiplayer, there will need to be house rules, or at least things understood to be reasonable vs unreasonable. Even in competitive “balanced” multiplayer games, metas emerge that have everyone using similar strategies. So balancing isn’t going to create variety.

 

[labgnome]

I'm really curious about Lost Colony. Will you be able to force-spawn your starting species with another origin? I know that if playing a lost colony I'd like to be able to control who my homeworld is.

I'm also curious about the Common Ground and Hegemon starts. Will they be different species than you are will they be the same species? If they are different species will this mean you won't get any of the "first contact" event chains? If they are other species, will there be any way to control their traits?

Lastly I'd like to know about Scions. Will you have any way to decide which fallen empire you get? Maybe you could have to have the same ethic, so only for spiritualists, materialists, xenophobes, xenophiles, and machine intelligences with each ethic getting their respective fallen empire? It would be really cool if you could design your fallen species like a secondary species.

 

[Pointyearedgit]

I'm really curious about Lost Colony. Will you be able to force-spawn your starting species with another origin? I know that if playing a lost colony I'd like to be able to control who my homeworld is.

I'm also curious about the Common Ground and Hegemon starts. Will they be different species than you are will they be the same species? If they are different species will this mean you won't get any of the "first contact" event chains? If they are other species, will there be any way to control their traits?

Lastly I'd like to know about Scions. Will you have any way to decide which fallen empire you get? Maybe you could have to have the same ethic, so only for spiritualists, materialists, xenophobes, xenophiles, and machine intelligences with each ethic getting their respective fallen empire? It would be really cool if you could design your fallen species like a secondary species.

Here’s some info from the other threads on this:

The other two federation members in Common Ground and Hegemon are indeed aliens, and do not share your empire's species.

In Scion, you will start as a vassal of either the spiritualist or materialist Fallen Empires. If you're spiritualist or materialist, it will pick the one that mirrors your ethic. Otherwise it's randomized. For the Origins where you start in a federation, the other two members are randomized but their ethics will largely reflect those of your empire.

For Lost Colony, it's completely random. They could be anything from purifiers to pacifists. It's been a while since your people left the homeworld - a lot will have happened in that time.

The other two members of your federation will also start with the Common Ground/Hegemon origin (called Hegemon Subordinate in the case of that origin).

Alas, it will not be possible to start with human players as the other federation members in multiplayer.

 

[labgnome]

Here’s some info from the other threads on this:

Thanks

 

[Prometheus_1]

Nice ...
How about more like:

• Shared destiny.... start on a homeplanet with another species
• Prespace age.... start on an unexplored system and yet to discover space flight
• Nomad.... start as a wandering arch colony and a small fleet in search for a new homeland
• Moon colony ... start on a small moon rather than a planet.
• Archology.... start on a full city district planet.
• Others?

 

[BlackUmbrellas]

Stellaris is not a balanced game, and that's okay. Some things are inherently overpowered, and some things are inherently sub-optimal. Some things combine and spiral out of control into an unstoppable death-machine that devours galaxies, and some are merely standard. And that's okay.

Stellaris is a game. Games are about having fun. And if the devs decided to rebalance everything so multiplayer was a completely level playing field, that would steal a lot of the fun. It's fun to be the dominating galactic power, washing over your enemies as a tide of death. And it's fun to be the underdog, scoring the unexpected but very needed victory. I don't want that taken away from me. I don't want to see Stellaris balanced around multiplayer.

Stellaris "not being balanced" is fine so long as the asymmetry is fun. Machine dominance, for instance, bothers a LOT of people and makes for boring, predictable games. An AI machine will almost always dominate, and playing as Machines is a cakewalk.

That's not fun.

 

[Mauer]

Void dwellers with extra habitats sounds super-interesting, as someone who likes to go with just a few systems but full of habitats, having this possibility from the beginning of the game will be very useful.

 

[Miesha]

How will some of these origins work with the Fanatic Purifiers and other killer factions? Will some of the origins be locked away based on your ethics and civics? Which ones will be locked with which civics/ethics? How exclusive are these origins?

 

[BlackUmbrellas]

How will some of these origins work with the Fanatic Purifiers and other killer factions? Will some of the origins be locked away based on your ethics and civics? Which ones will be locked with which civics/ethics? How exclusive are these origins?

We know that Hegemon and Common Ground are both unavailable to purifier-type civilizations.

 

[Kventin Dorvard]

I'm a bit too lazy to rear entire thread, but would Commonwealth of Men have UNE (or its variations) as 'mother' nation?

Edit. Stupid question. Even now having Commonwealth in your game will always spawn Sol system is some shape or form.

And I think it would be better if Lost Colony does not just spawn another Empire with same species, but instead give the player location of their original system and do one of these:

1. Spawn Empire with the same species (like UNE for COM)
2. Spawn Synthetic Empire based on the same species (like prescripted Custodians that can be spawned for COM today instead of UNE)
3. Original Empire is destroyed in nuclear war (sapient cockroaches on Earth after WW3)
4. Original Empire is destroyed/enslaved by another Empire

 

[Druski]

So, why couldnt Galactic doorstep have an active gateway instead? give you another possible route of exploration?

 

[Dmitrius]

Doesn't really matter. Bad vs very bad is a minuscule difference. It might as well make the game say "Game over, sucker" instead of "Game over". Game design should aim for less swingy, not for more swingy.

What the hell are you talking about?

 

[Untrustedlife]

I hope you guys add the ability to customize the flag/symbol for your federation. Thats one thing space empires has on you.

 

[Stumbleduck]

How will Void Dwellers and Lithoids interact? Presumably hydroponics won't spawn on the habitats, so what, if anything will spawn instead?

 

[Fulgrymm]

I hope you guys add the ability to customize the flag/symbol for your federation. Thats one thing space empires has on you.

And the ability to make stars go supernova, collapse into a black hole, or disperse into a nebula.

 

[Zarpaulus]

Nice ...
How about more like:

• Shared destiny.... start on a homeplanet with another species
• Prespace age.... start on an unexplored system and yet to discover space flight
• Nomad.... start as a wandering arch colony and a small fleet in search for a new homeland
• Moon colony ... start on a small moon rather than a planet.
• Archology.... start on a full city district planet.
• Others?

• Already got Syncretic Evolution for sharing a homeworld with another species.
• If current pre-FTL species are any indication, that would get you nuked from orbit.
• Code doesn't allow mobile habitats.
• How is that functionally any different from Void Dwellers?
• Arcology planets have no means of producing basic resources, it's all advanced ones.

 

[BlackUmbrellas]

So, why couldnt Galactic doorstep have an active gateway instead? give you another possible route of exploration?

Because instead it's been implied to have an event chain or special project to open it early, but not immediately.

 

[Ultimuh]

Calamitous Birth: Lithoid Only. Start with a Massive Crater on your Homeworld. You are also able to build Meteorite Colony Ships, which colonize planets in a more dramatic fashion. (Lithoids)

So, you will besically be Lavos (Chrono Trigger).