Stellaris Dev Diary #160 - Origins Full Reveal

[pieman]

Some of these origins look like they'll make gamestart quite janky and imbalanced. I think there's not nearly enough "normal" origins to balance out the fantastical ones, and the fantastical ones don't seem to have nearly as many drawbacks as they ought. Most are just "here's a better homeworld".

Imagine once one of these origins is figured out to be 'optimal'? you're in an MP game, and every single empire in the galaxy has a ringworld start. with like 20 or 30 ringworlds just scattered all over the galaxy.

 

[Red Earth]

"Only" as much science as three trait points worth of bonuses. That's assuming you only get one of Dense Ruins or Central Spire, too; normally you get both of them, so you get +30% science, which is 3x as good as Intelligent. And yes, you lose 6 districts, but even if you start with Broken Spire and need to cough up the (relatively) huge pile of money early on to remove the blocker, +8 scientists is as good as four building slots in the early game.

Finally, don't forget that you presumably turn it into an Ecumenopolis, and that you'll probably still get your Rubricator world. The empire that takes this origin will be swimming in research.

Mkay, I said "only" 15% because someone claimed it was 50%, which is considerably more.

You lose the bonuses from both the central spire and dense ruins if you make it an Ecumenopolis, instead getting "only" 10%.

 

[Abakus]

Sure, but you gotta admit it's just nonsense for Gestalts.

Not really. I can think of one or two Hive Minds from literature that *didn't* have prosperous unifications, for instance. And it makes total sense for all of the Machine Empires, especially Driven Assimilators and Rogue Servitors--the organics are prosperously unified into the collective or into their pampering!

And the name aside, all it means is that "The Mind expanded over the surface of the planet and then went to space." Having anything more than a separate name file for it as a Gestalt would be a waste of dev resources, and I wouldn't want two identical origins with different names cluttering up the UI. So yeah, it seems pretty sensible to me.

 

[Marissa]

They already gave a answer:
"We are always working on Performance and AI".

You keep repeating that. Has that really been your experience with Megacorpse? Always working on Performance and AI?

 

[BlackUmbrellas]

... because they use the AE subject types? Which would mean materialists can't into AI, IIRC.

"Scion" would be a new subject type.

 

[Ur-Quan Lord 13]

Sure, but you gotta admit it's just nonsense for Gestalts.

Uhhmm... Maaaybbbee... They unified into one mind prosperously? Maybe there were separate hive minds, then they coalesced.

Or, the spread of the hive mind to assimilate all members of the species, when it first evolved.

Both could theoretically be applied to MEs too, with slightly different details.

I dunno really, just talking out my butt. Obviously, depending on the backstory of your particular gestalt, it could be nonsense, but I don't think that's inherent.

 

[Spaceception]

I've seen primitives on the border of an FE before. If they reach FTL, will they get the Scion origin? EDIT: What happens if they're non-Mat/Spirit? I remember a steam age on the border of a Xenophobe (so I quickly built a starbase, invaded, and resettled their world).

 

[BlackUmbrellas]

Uhhmm... Maaaybbbee... They unified into one mind prosperously? Maybe there were separate hive minds, then they coalesced.

Or, the spread of the hive mind to assimilate all members of the species, when it first evolved.

Both could theoretically be applied to MEs too, with slightly different details.

I dunno really, just talking out my butt. Obviously, depending on the backstory of your particular gestalt, it could be nonsense, but I don't think that's inherent.

"Prosperous Unification" works fine for Gestalts IMO. They united their homeworld under one rule in a manner that allowed prosperous growth. That's it. Maybe it was a literal unification of warring hiveminds into a singular whole, or maybe it was simply a territorial unification in which the Gestalt gained dominance over the world.

 

[Serenity84]

Imagine once one of these origins is figured out to be 'optimal'? you're in an MP game, and every single empire in the galaxy has a ringworld start. with like 20 or 30 ringworlds just scattered all over the galaxy.

And again someone wants to sacrifice flavor for crappy multiplayer. Too many games are far worse off for that. If you think something is unbalanced then have some house rules and ban it

 

[Ur-Quan Lord 13]

- You have Habitat preference (I assume this is: 100% Habitat, 100% on perfect worlds, 0% elsewhere)

My only hope is that the void dweller trait is set to be "opposite" to all the other preference types, so you can't just flood all the normal planets with your superior dudes once you can change them.

Or maybe "only active on habitats". That's better, actually, since then it wouldn't apply on ringworlds/Gaia worlds/ecu/relic etc.

It seems to be meant to represent them being so adapted they can use the peculiarities of the habitat environment to their benefit, which wouldn't make sense to be usable anywhere else.

 

[PirateJack]

Going back to the idea of an X-COM style origin, I'd like to see one where another empire invaded while you were still a primitive civ, but you fended them off and took a bunch of tech. You'd start with three random techs open to research (one in each category, probably tier 0/1) and the knowledge of the advanced empire nearby that invaded your homeworld. You get extra influence for rivalling them and relations are already low.

 

[Pointyearedgit]

My only hope is that the void dweller trait is set to be "opposite" to all the other preference types, so you can't just flood all the normal planets with your superior dudes once you can change them.

Or maybe "only active on habitats". That's better, actually, since then it wouldn't apply on ringworlds/Gaia worlds/ecu/relic etc.

It seems to be meant to represent them being so adapted they can use the peculiarities of the habitat environment to their benefit, which wouldn't make sense to be usable anywhere else.

Oooh, a habitat only trait, that would be interesting.

 

[Spaceception]

Oooh, a habitat only trait, that would be interesting.

I believe that trait is already in the game actually. I don't know why. I haven't seen any events that point to it, but it's there.

 

[Pointyearedgit]

I believe that trait is already in the game actually. I don't know why. I haven't seen any events that point to it, but it's there.

As in it gives a bonus only active on habitats? If so, do tell.

Or it’s the “habitat preference”? The habitat preference I’ve seen in practice, it comes from certain event chains spawning pops ... that happens to occur on a habitat, so they get that as their “homeworld”.

Edit: Event “gains”? Thanks again autocorrect!

 

[Mr Thursday]

And again someone wants to sacrifice flavor for crappy multiplayer. Too many games are far worse off for that. If you think something is unbalanced then have some house rules and ban it

This old chestnut again. Weak or Overpowered traits are bad for the game, both for solo and multiplayer. You seem to imply that anyone doing a "Roleplaying" run through is on some sort of masochistic trip and should suffer from a sub optimal build.
There are also many groups of friends who enjoy multiplayer RP games of Stellaris. Should they be forced to ban some overpowered traits or avoid useless ones?

 

[Pyzayt]

I wonder if it'll be possible to code empires so that they count as the Lost Colony of your other empire, if they have the same species name and portrait. Sort of how the CoM and UNE will always both spawn, except with the players own empires.

 

[Janx14]

I wonder if it'll be possible to code empires so that they count as the Lost Colony of your other empire, if they have the same species name and portrait. Sort of how the CoM and UNE will always both spawn, except with the players own empires.

There was a mod that did that on the workshop over a year ago using just civics.

The species had to be exactly the same. I'm not sure if the 'home planet' empire needed a civic too, but the colony did. If no originator existed, it randomly generated one for you.

Think there was more than one mod that did this actually. Its why i feel kind of disapointed with these origins, as modders have done most of these for years

 

[Ur-Quan Lord 13]

You seem to imply that anyone doing a "Roleplaying" run through is on some sort of masochistic trip and should suffer from a sub optimal build.

Depending on what someone's looking for from the game, what level of sub-optimal build they would consider masochistic varies.

For example, with the current state of the AI, in most games a slightly more powerful origin will just be the difference between "completely stomping the AI from year x onward" and "completely stomping the AI from year x +/- 10 onward". If that difference causes a player pain... Well, then they should be playing on the lowest difficulty, too. It's completely irrational to crave that OP origin at all times, yet not crave OPness in other ways.

The power gamers that challenge themselves with year 2300 5x crisis etc. are either intentionally searching for optimal builds that trounce all others, or are indeed masochists and will happily avoid an OP origin.

I'm somewhere in between. I regularly play with objectively sub-optimal builds, and in objectively sub-optimal ways, because it's they way I like. In the words of Lisa Simpson, I want "a challenge I can do". So if ringworlds are too stupidly powerful, I just won't use them, or will turn scaling difficulty off when I do.

Again, if you want ALL the challenge, you're either doing it to prove your ability to play optimally (I'm which case you can be sad that the choice of best origin is too obvious), or are a masochist, or both. And if you want ALL the OP so bad it's painful to not have it then realize you might need therapy, to reconsider what exactly that's doing for you... Like, you're already limiting yourself, simply by not turning down the "other empires" slider to 0.

 

[Methone]

The power gamers that challenge themselves with year 2300 5x crisis etc. are either intentionally searching for optimal builds that trounce all others, or are indeed masochists and will happily avoid an OP origin.

Or looking for at least a bare minimum of danger. Crisis is broken.

 

[Red Earth]

So with these origins that aren't regular planets, I'm wondering about species habitability. No one* has talked about how that affects colonization. Gaia and ring is bad for everything else, and tomb is mostly good. I know relic habitability is bad cuz I made one species with that species creating relic.

Edit: *Oh, it was brought up while I was eating.