Stellaris Dev Diary #158 - Federation rework

[Spaceception]

While we're on the topic of speaking with the Prethoryn, am I the only one who finds it bizarre that psionic-Purifiers and Devouring Swarms can beg the Scourge for coexistence?

Reading into the wiki, Purifiers can have a positive opinion with other Purifiers (if they're the same species, but still), and it seems like Devouring Swarms don't have any modifiers towards each other, but it may be a Hive-Mind thing. This is an overwhelming force who happens to share your goals, so it makes at least a little sense (to me), that they would want to cut their losses, and join up. It could be interesting if something like this happened, where you as a Purifier kept the Scourge at bay towards you, by helping them devourer the galaxy, before both of you let loose on each other in turn afterward. But that's my opinion.

 

[FiddleSticks96]

@Methone @Spaceception FPs and DSs have no reason to fear the Swarm even on x5 crisis strength. The Swarm can't figure out how to expand, let alone be a threat to anyone they don't spawn on top of.

 

[Gamgy]

I like spiriutalists, but I don't think that they need separate Federation type. In this case we need Federation for every ethic type and it looks like too much for me. I prefer some other mecanics around it.

But, honestly, I think the poorest one for mecanics is pacifism. You just get flat bonus and that is all.

 

[Tyrannical Prince]

While we're on the topic of speaking with the Prethoryn, am I the only one who finds it bizarre that psionic-Purifiers and Devouring Swarms can beg the Scourge for coexistence?

Wait, what?
Is that true?

 

[Make Victoria 3]

Trust me when I say @Duuk knows for certain that this bug has been in the game since 1.0!

So either Paradox disagrees and considers it working as intened or there have, at any given point in time, been to many other bugs that had higher priority than this that not on a single low prio bugfixday this got done.

 

[SeekingEtermity]

I feel like there should be a "Spiritual Compact" federation type, as the other federations all have ethics that they can closely tie to:

Hygemony - Authoritarian (and debatably Xenophobe)
Martial Alliance - (Militarism)
Trade Alliance - (Xenophilia, whilst not essential will help a MC with trust growth etc)
Galactic Alliance - (Egalitarianism / Xenophilia - if it's modelled upon the Startrek Federation as I suspect)
Research Alliance - (Materialism)

Spiritualism is the only one that doesn't really have any strong representation. A federation built on the grounds of spiritualist traditions and thought could round this out (note, spiritualism =/= religion).

Also, will we be able to create a flag for our federation too?

Xenophilia is indeed useful for Trade Alliances, because it's the ethic that boosts your Trade Value production (at least, that's the case for 2.2-2.5; they might re-work the ethics again for 2.6).

However, for all your "Spiritualism is the only one...", you forgot Pacifism. Indeed, you forgot it so hard you didn't even lump it in with Egalitarianism on the Galactic Alliance (which is open to all empire ethics and has nothing to do with Egalitarianism in particular, from anything we've seen so far). You could arguably lump Pacifism into Trade Alliance - after all, the ethic provides Admin Cap (which megacorps need) and the faction demands wealth (which the Trade Alliance provides... it basically doubles your trade value, which is just HUGE, in some games I've played that would be an instant +3000 energy or more before 2400 AND a huge bonus to Unity production) - but it's not actually relevant to the Trade Alliance as we've seen thus far.

Finally, I would argue that non-authoritarian xenophobes don't really fit the Hegemony thing. Xenophobes are more about avoiding, exploiting, or eliminating others, not about telling them what they can (must) do. Obviously, the whole "federation" concept is pretty much the antithesis of xenophobia - I wonder whether the xenophobe factions will still be raging mad if you join a federation? - so in a sense they're the obvious ethic to leave out of a diplomacy/federation-focused expansion, but I think it would still be interesting for them - and even for Inward Perfection - to have some isolationism-focused diplomatic options beyond simply signing NAPs with everybody.

 

[SeekingEtermity]

I like spiriutalists, but I don't think that they need separate Federation type. In this case we need Federation for every ethic type and it looks like too much for me. I prefer some other mecanics around it.

But, honestly, I think the poorest one for mecanics is pacifism. You just get flat bonus and that is all.

Pacifism doesn't even get very good factions (it's really hard to push the pacifist faction to high happiness, because it has very few issues it cares about, there's "just don't fight wars" and "outlaw the one kind of war and even war goal that is useful for pacifists who end up with hostile neighbors). The bonuses from it are actually respectable - 3%/6% production bonus to everything including trade value (from stability) and reduced leader upkeep, tradition cost, and tech cost (from admin cap, though the actual amount is piddling), but it's a boring play style at present. I'm hoping that 2.6 and Federations will change that, but there's been nothing about pacifism-focused empires mentioned so far. Additionally, the one gameplay-changing option for pacifists - the Inward Perfection civic - makes all the content of this dev diary permanently out of reach! (It used to be possible to swap out of IP, but now - short of going god-king or similar - it's not).

 

[TempusxX]

I'll be buying this looks good for me

 

[NilsFabian]

But there isn't one for spiritualists, or egalitarians etc.

Well kind of hard for spiritualists to agree on one god
As for egalitarians. They can use the generic

 

[Sifer2]

It all looks quite cool. But then makes me wonder if anything is new for Vassal's. Since that was always kind of the other side of the coin to interacting with AI empires. Either Federate with them or Vassal them. Like people are asking for a Spiritualist Federation. But I could potentially see that working as a unique Vassal mechanic where you create a Religion then can either peacefully for forcefully convert other Empire's to it making them a special type of Vassal. Dunno maybe too much. If nothing else though it does seem like Spiritualist should have a mechanic. Psionic Battles are cool but hardly exclusive to Spiritualist.

 

[Realism42]

This expansion would add some rally interesting features. However, with the current state of the ai you will just add bunch of useless dead weight allies to your federation.

 

[Urloc the Great]

Hello everyone!

It was great to finally reveal what we’re working on at PDXCON, and today we’re back with yet another dev diary where we will dive into some more details on the reworked federations.

The screenshots still feature a bunch of work-in-progress stuff, like every federation perk using a placeholder right now. Numbers and effects aren’t necessarily final either.

Federation Types
Like we mentioned at PDXCON, federation will now come in different Federation Types. Each federation type has a unique passive effect and can unlock federation perks as they level up.​

View attachment 522457
Certain federation types have requirements on what type of empire can suggest to form them, but there are no limitations on who can join a federation (except for killer empires & inward perfection). Yes, this also means that Barbaric Despoilers and Criminal Syndicate are no longer excluded.
​

Galactic Union
This will be a more generic type of federation that will fit most groups of empires. This federation makes it easier to cooperate with empires, as diversity of ethics will have a less negative impact on maintaining cohesion. This federation type will be available to everyone in the free patch.​

View attachment 522458
Fleet bonuses a plenty!
​

Martial Alliance
This federation type is focused around having a very large and powerful federation fleet. Only militarists can suggest to form this federation.​

View attachment 522459
Free and automatic research sharing!
​

Research Cooperative
Empires who wish to cooperate in achieving technological mastery should join together in a research cooperative. Only materialists can suggest to form a research cooperative.​

View attachment 522460
View attachment 522461
New trade policy!​

Trade League
If trade value is the focus of your empire, the Trade League is probably a very good federation for you to be a part of. The Trade League gets access to a new Trade Policy which combines the bonuses of all other trade policies. An empire needs to be a Megacorporation or have the Merchant Guilds civic in order to be able to suggest to form a trade league.

View attachment 522462
Did you know there is an Origin that lets you start as the president of a Hegemony?​

Hegemony
This federation type is built around one strong core member. The president gets most of the bonuses, but the bonuses for the members are also quite powerful. Only authoritarian empires may suggest to form a hegemony.

Federation Perks
Federations will get access to new perks when they level up, and the perks they get access to depend on their type. There are usually 2 perks that gives bonuses to every member and 1 perk that gives bonuses only to the president. However, the Hegemony flips this around by giving the president 2 perks and the members 1 perk (which does not benefit the president in this case!).

View attachment 522467
Hegemony member perk.​

View attachment 522468
President gets an additional Envoy.​

Each time a federation levels up, they will get access to 3 new perks.

Level Up & Cohesion
In order to level gain XP, a federation needs to have positive Cohesion. The amount of XP a federation gains (or loses!) per month is directly tied to its Cohesion, which is a value that ranged from -100 to +100.

View attachment 522469​

There are a number of things that will reduce Cohesion every month, such as every member, diverse ethics and opposing ethics. Federation members can counteract this by assigning Envoys to the federation, which will increase monthly Cohesion.

When Cohesion is at +100, the federation will gain +10 XP every month. If a federation loses XP and drops a level, they will lose access to their perks after a few months.

Federation Laws
It is possible for federations to customize some aspects of its rules. In some cases, federation types also have access to different laws at different points. A Research Cooperative can never have the highest level of fleet contribution, and they also require higher centralization to increase their Fleet Contribution.

Each federation type will start with a certain set of default laws.

View attachment 522464
There are a number of laws which define certain rules for the federation.​

Centralization
Many federation laws require federation centralization to be high enough. To increase centralization, a federation needs higher level. In fact, centralization is the only law locked behind federation levels right now.

Increasing centralization isn’t always easy though, as doing so will have a large negative impact on Cohesion. That means more Envoys will need to be assigned to the federation to maintain its Cohesion.

The primary reason to increase centralization is to unlock new laws.

View attachment 522471
The Galactic Union federation type requires Medium centralization to have a 20% Fleet Contribution.​

Fleet Contribution
Most federations will not start with the ability to build a federation fleet, as their fleet contribution will start on “None”. The Martial Alliance and the Hegemony do start with a “Low” fleet contribution, however. The Martial Alliance is also able to change its fleet contribution law to “High” as early as Medium centralization.

View attachment 522472
Most of the other laws not visible earlier.​

Succession types
As you could see in previous screenshots there are a bunch of different laws for how federations can decide who becomes the president. Strongest is the empire with the greatest economy. Diplomatic Weight is the empire with the largest Diplomatic Weight (we talked about that at PDXCON, but more on that later). Rotation will rotate the president. Random will choose a president from a random member. Challenge succession type allows you to pick a challenge type for your federation.

View attachment 522463
Perhaps we’ll have enough psi-capable pops next time...​

There are currently two different challenge types:
Psionic Battle lets psionic pops battle it out over which empire should be president.
Arena Combat lets the rulers of competing empires battle it out. Certain traits for the ruler (both species and ruler-specific) will influence how large chance the ruler has at winning. The Chosen will of course be very hard to beat.

----

That’s it for this week, and we hope you survive the information overload! We realized there are so many details we possibly could share, but this should cover the most important parts.

Next week we will be talking about the Galactic Community, Resolutions and more!

What about winning? Do you still win as a team if you are in a federation?

If yes: Does this count for all federation types e.g.: Do you win as a team if the ruler of a Hegemony wins?

 

[Fermi's_Solution]

I feel like there should be a "Spiritual Compact" federation type, as the other federations all have ethics that they can closely tie to:

Hygemony - Authoritarian (and debatably Xenophobe)
Martial Alliance - (Militarism)
Trade Alliance - (Xenophilia, whilst not essential will help a MC with trust growth etc)
Galactic Alliance - (Egalitarianism / Xenophilia - if it's modelled upon the Startrek Federation as I suspect)
Research Alliance - (Materialism)

Spiritualism is the only one that doesn't really have any strong representation. A federation built on the grounds of spiritualist traditions and thought could round this out (note, spiritualism =/= religion).

Also, will we be able to create a flag for our federation too?

It makes more sense if you look at the federation types from a diplomatic perspective instead of an ethics one:

Hegemony - demand vassalization
Martial Alliance - form (vanilla) federation
Trade Alliance - commercial pact
Galactic Alliance - defensive pact
Research Alliance - research agreement

(none) - migration treaty
(none) - non-aggression pact

By extension, spiritualists and egalitarians wouldn't have a unique federation type because they don't have unique diplomatic actions associated with them. Pacifists would arguably have non-aggression pacts, though it's a bit hard to make a federation based around mutual neutrality (unless going for pure economy I guess, which is where pacifism normally leans). Migration treaty would arguably be xenophiles, but they just want to be in a federation at all, and their bonuses are more angled towards trade anyways.

Xenophobes have a faction issue for not being in a federation, so by the above reasoning they'd necessarily not have a federation type (except maybe hegemony, which I think they ought to have).

And yet people are like, "meh, religion is dumb" because they're viewing it through 21st Century Earth eyes. The metaphysical is the ONE THING Stellaris has bothered to actually flesh out. We know, FOR A FACT, that the spiritual exists in this universe. And yet it gets papered over, ignored, has broken mechanics (lookin' at you here ethics attraction).

To be fair, it's also the one thing a science fiction game would have to put special effort towards justifying.

 

[Methone]

Purifiers can have a positive opinion with other Purifiers (if they're the same species, but still)

Exactly, they're not the same species.

nd it seems like Devouring Swarms don't have any modifiers towards each other, but it may be a Hive-Mind thing

Other than the -1000 for being a Devouring Swarm?

 

[G S Palmer]

I really hope we have a few laws that regulate what our federation members can do, such as a slavery policy. The options could be:

• Slavery Banned For Primary Species
• Slavery Banned for All Species
• Disenfranchisement for Non-Primary Species

 

[Pellaken]

my main concern is they fix what I consider to be the biggest problems with federations. They've come part of the way on this already. Its when all your federation members want to go to war, but you don't want to. there needs to be a better way for this to be dealt with than simply stacking on ever-increasing negative dispositions.

 

[Dragonsploof]

I wonder if they will rework what happens after the death of the Great Khan with this new federation stuff.

 

[Spaceception]

Other than the -1000 for being a Devouring Swarm?

The wiki didn't have that, so I wasn't exactly sure. But yeah, okay. I was just thinking it could've been an interesting bit of RP.

 

[Realism42]

I wonder if they will rework what happens after the death of the Great Khan with this new federation stuff.

It sure would make for a nice consistent game. I wonder how that would work for people who won’t buy the expansion though?

 

[Methone]

my main concern is they fix what I consider to be the biggest problems with federations. They've come part of the way on this already. Its when all your federation members want to go to war, but you don't want to. there needs to be a better way for this to be dealt with than simply stacking on ever-increasing negative dispositions.

One of the laws is wars needing unanimous/majority/president only votes.