• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

Stellaris Dev Diary #153 - Empire Sprawl & Administrative Capacity

Hello everyone!
We’re back with yet another dev diary to showcase some more fruits of summer experimentation. As with the previous dev diary, this involved a lot of work carried out during the summer and involves something I’ve wanted to explore for a good while now.

Today we’ll be talking about empire sprawl and administrative capacity. Do note that these changes are still fairly young in their development, so numbers and implementation details may not be representative of what it will look like in the end.

As a background, I can mention that I have a grander idea of where I want to take these mechanics, but it will not all happen at once. These changes aim to mimic state bureaucracy or overhead created by managing a large empire. As a minor aspect I also wanted you to be able to experience the funny absurdity of having a planet entirely dedicated to bureaucracy. The movie Brazil is a great source of inspiration here :)

Empire Sprawl
We wanted to expand on how empire sprawl is used, so that it becomes a more interesting mechanic. The largest change means that pops now increase empire sprawl. Most things in your empire should be increasing empire sprawl to various degrees, to represent the administrative burden they impose.

upload_2019-8-29_10-40-35.png

Empire Sprawl can now be modified from its different sources, and as an example, the Courier Networks expansion tradition will now reduce empire sprawl caused directly by the number of planets and systems. As another example shows, the Harmony traditions finisher now reduces the total empire sprawl caused by all your pops.

We are also able to modify how much empire sprawl each pop contributes, and we’ve added a couple of new species traits that affect it. There are also machine variants of these traits.

upload_2019-8-29_10-41-13.png

We have also increased the penalty for the amount of empire sprawl that exceeds your administrative capacity. The goal is not to make administrative a hard cap, but we want to make it necessary to invest some of your resources into increasing your administrative capacity. More on that later.

upload_2019-8-29_10-41-49.png

The current plan is for machine empires to be more reliant on keeping their administrative capacity in line with their empire sprawl, so machine empires will suffer a much harsher penalty for exceeding their cap. We want machines to feel “centralized” and to perhaps favor a more “tall” playstyle.

upload_2019-8-29_10-42-12.png

Hive Minds, on the other hand, should be more tolerant of a sprawling empire where unmanaged drones are able to fall back on their instincts whenever they cannot maintain a responsive connection to the hive mind. Therefore, hive minds should be more tolerant of a “wide” playstyle.

Administrative Capacity
With all these changes to empire sprawl, what about administrative capacity, I imagine you asking? Well, since empire sprawl is becoming an expanded concept, administrative capacity will naturally be a part of that. Increasing your administrative capacity will now be a part of planning your empire’s economy.

upload_2019-8-29_10-42-48.png

For regular empires, the bureaucrat is a new job that increases your administrative capacity at the cost of consumer goods. This is also a specialist job, and has needs accordingly. Administrators are unchanged, and do not currently affect administrative capacity or bureaucrats.

For machine empires, the coordinators have changed roles from producing unity to now increasing administrative capacity instead, and they are more effective than bureaucrats. A new job called Evaluators now produce unity for machine empires.

Hive Minds currently have the hardest time to produce administrative capacity, but it has been added as a function of the synapse drone job.

upload_2019-8-29_10-43-26.png


Certain sources that previously increased administrative capacity by a static amount now increase is by a percentage amount instead. This doesn’t affect the output of the jobs, but rather increases the total administrative capacity directly.

Summary
Personally I’m very excited for these changes and I’m very much looking forward to taking it to its next step in the future. I hope you enjoyed reading about the changes that will come to Stellaris sometime later this year. As always, we’ll be interested to hear your thoughts.

As mentioned in last week’s dev diary, the schedule for dev diaries will now be bi-weekly, so the next dev diary will be in another 2 weeks.
 
  • 1Like
Reactions:

eagletrekkie

Colonel
35 Badges
Mar 16, 2017
902
561
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Surviving Mars: Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Surviving Mars
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • Cities: Skylines - Campus
My one request with regard to sprawl/cohesion is for it to scale based on hyperlane density. Playing on full hyperlanes means your sprawl is always higher than it would be on a map with lower density.
 

The Founder

Field Marshal
55 Badges
Mar 13, 2013
13.050
3.156
  • A Game of Dwarves
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Sword of the Stars II
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Surviving Mars
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Surviving Mars: Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Shadowrun: Hong Kong
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Deluxe edition
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Sign Up
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall - Revelations
  • BATTLETECH
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Warlock 2: The Exiled
  • Warlock 2: Wrath of the Nagas
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Major Wiki Contributor
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Ancient Space
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars Pre-Order
  • Imperator: Rome
Yes, it would be cool if sprawl exceeding admin cap would increase your susceptibility to spy actions and similar. It would also be cool if having large institutions like a massive secret police or diplomatic corps would increase your sprawl (since those institutions would increase bureaucracy).
One issue I alwas had with Police, was that it is too easy for everyon to get high Police values. Another issue was a lack of Authoritarian attraction factors. My idea of a solution was a sort of "Police Policy". With Police Policy being a Ethics attraction factor - the (need for) strong police, makes people more Authoritarian.
I did not have an idea on how to balance this. What incentive to keep a low value. But such a Sprawl Modifier might just work out :)
 

Avien

Recruit
11 Badges
Aug 30, 2019
1
0
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Federations
This is the least interesting part of the game, I don't need more micromanagement in the game. I don't need more admin. I want tools & an efficient AI to deal with that boring stuff. I just want to focus on the big picture. I hate the changes to planet & sector management and the general trend to add more micro management into the game. give me features, not chores
 

methegrate

General
27 Badges
Jun 20, 2016
2.408
3.559
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Divine Wind
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Sword of the Stars
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • BATTLETECH
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Crusader Kings II
This is the least interesting part of the game, I don't need more micromanagement in the game. I don't need more admin. I want tools & an efficient AI to deal with that boring stuff. I just want to focus on the big picture. I hate the changes to planet & sector management and the general trend to add more micro management into the game. give me features, not chores

I feel like this is a case of "one man's feature is another man's micro."

To me empire sprawl and admin cap is a great, if poorly executed, idea. I really like the idea of a mechanic that pushes back on unlimited expansion.

In my mind, the best case scenario for this is a version of the game where large, galaxy-filling empires are a late game phenomenon. I'd love it (personally) if you had to work your way up to that, with the mid game being defined by modest borders and empty space as each empire develops the tools it needs to effectively govern a fifth of the galaxy.

If integrated well with internal politics, that could even make for really compelling asymmetry as empires had different expansion options based on how they dedicated their resources. You could have the fierce lawlessness of the Empire right next to a well-run Federation.
 

Methone

Field Marshal
16 Badges
Oct 27, 2018
7.197
4.552
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Stellaris: Necroids
This is the least interesting part of the game, I don't need more micromanagement in the game. I don't need more admin. I want tools & an efficient AI to deal with that boring stuff. I just want to focus on the big picture. I hate the changes to planet & sector management and the general trend to add more micro management into the game. give me features, not chores
You do understand that sectors can automate, right?
 

Rebel1776

Major
106 Badges
Nov 10, 2011
528
413
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Magicka
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Semper Fi
  • Sword of the Stars
  • Sword of the Stars II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
I agree with most of the expanding of the foundation that is, Administrative Capacity.

I really hope that this gets coupled with a further overhaul of Sectors and the AI that runs it. Frankly if we could reasonably rely on Sectors to do somewhat of a decent job of being autonomous, then i'd be in full support of these changes. Where numbers of Pops aren't as much of a burden on the State depending on Sector Autonomy. Pop burden on the Core sector should be significantly less than Pops 2 Sectors, or not even sectored, away. Hell I'd prefer to see Sectors as being more like Vassals that I have significantly more direct influence over depending on the level of autonomy I grant them. Governors then have Faction Loyalties, could lead to eventual Sepertism.....

You do understand that sectors can automate, right?

I mean, they can, but could you say it's done even reasonably efficiently? I'd rather just break off a Vassal to make it be self-dependant than use the Sector AI as it is right now and suck my rare resources dry without my approval.
 

Cahokia

Second Lieutenant
62 Badges
Apr 16, 2016
159
57
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
When I first read through the OP I did a double take when I saw that a single pop would add 1 AC. That is a huge jump from previous versions. And then I remembered why I ignored that number even when playing tall, AC has no teeth. It will be interesting to see how this balances out I am looking forward to more challenge as right now it is way to easy to snowball whether you play "tall" or "wide". (Amusing someone thought tall meant you didn't build a navy/military power and hoped you didn't get attacked) The way the economy works right now, once you get a few mid tier technologies you run away with the game. Especially since pop growth is so easy to come by. Also I hope the AI either doesn't get AC from pops or its a reduced penalty at the higher difficulties, since right now they still can't keep up cause the AI is terrible at managing its economy. I'm hoping the new diplomacy and espionage DLC ;) also helps improve the AI's capabilities. Or at the very least is the last big change to the way the AI handles economy/diplomacy so that further updates can focus on improving the AI.

I think people are too averse to penalties which is why everyone is freaking out about this. If people stop and think about it, AC as it stands can be completely ignored. Which means now you might have a cursory thought about it but I don't see it making the game harder. If anything it will be easier since you now have a very easy tool (jobs) to reduce AC. Hopefully you will keep that in mind, otherwise this may actually go the other direction where its even easier to snowball.
 

Methone

Field Marshal
16 Badges
Oct 27, 2018
7.197
4.552
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Stellaris: Necroids
When I first read through the OP I did a double take when I saw that a single pop would add 1 AC. That is a huge jump from previous versions. And then I remembered why I ignored that number even when playing tall, AC has no teeth. It will be interesting to see how this balances out I am looking forward to more challenge as right now it is way to easy to snowball whether you play "tall" or "wide". (Amusing someone thought tall meant you didn't build a navy/military power and hoped you didn't get attacked) The way the economy works right now, once you get a few mid tier technologies you run away with the game. Especially since pop growth is so easy to come by. Also I hope the AI either doesn't get AC from pops or its a reduced penalty at the higher difficulties, since right now they still can't keep up cause the AI is terrible at managing its economy. I'm hoping the new diplomacy and espionage DLC ;) also helps improve the AI's capabilities. Or at the very least is the last big change to the way the AI handles economy/diplomacy so that further updates can focus on improving the AI.

I think people are too averse to penalties which is why everyone is freaking out about this. If people stop and think about it, AC as it stands can be completely ignored. Which means now you might have a cursory thought about it but I don't see it making the game harder. If anything it will be easier since you now have a very easy tool (jobs) to reduce AC. Hopefully you will keep that in mind, otherwise this may actually go the other direction where its even easier to snowball.
Didn't he also say that Admin Cap penalties would be made stronger?
 

BlackUmbrellas

Field Marshal
33 Badges
Nov 22, 2016
9.311
3.678
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Prison Architect
  • Cities: Skylines - Campus
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall - Revelations
  • Prison Architect: Psych Ward
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Island Bound
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Surviving Mars
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Teleglitch: Die More Edition
  • Crusader Kings II
So people keep bringing up this "Diplomacy expansion" as this is some sort of final goal or dream of yours.

However I don't understand how this is supposed to improve the game if the AI is barely worth interacting with without mods.
Its hard to get the AI working when mechanics get ripped out and shoved back in under it- see 2.0/Apocalypse and how the AI suffered noticeably under the new model of expansion, or 2.2/Megacorp and its difficulties with the new economy. Diplomacy is the last of the Three Big Things that have been planned to be overhauled/expanded on for quite some time- once Diplomacy is done being reworked, we can assume that things will be stable enough to do proper work on improving and optimizing the AI without the systems its built for being scrapped and having to start over.

You don't paint the walls and arrange the furniture while you're still ripping out the rotten insulation and replacing load-bearing beams.
 

DaveDS

Dave
42 Badges
Apr 18, 2017
4
0
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife Pre-Order
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Prison Architect
  • Cities: Skylines - Campus
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Crusader Kings II
I'm all for bureaucrats, I love the idea of having a capital planet that administrates, and maybe has a stock market; alternative, having one planet dedicated to trade and another to government, like Shanghai and Beijing, New York and Washington.

Only comment/request - Megacorps shouldn't have any bureaucrats and instead should A) get a corporate headquarters (new Art please) instead of capital/administrative buildings on the capital world with buffs to trade value and less stability.

B) No admin penalty for pops, they're just customers to megacorps. In conjunction with the lower base, admin cap should push megacorps to cram more people into fewer planets and play especially tall, with the possibility for the ultra-rich to stand on top a mountain of filthy poor without a thought for their welfare or have some fancy, shiny robots instead. Either way pops shouldn't be a consideration.

C) stronger more unique civics - example - mining company civic should have a massive buff to space mining, including and especially on mining habitats, to make up for lower admin cap and ability to expand. they're a ruthless company, after all, should easily outpace any bureaucratic state in terms of consumer goods, mining or trade value.
 

Rebel1776

Major
106 Badges
Nov 10, 2011
528
413
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Magicka
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Semper Fi
  • Sword of the Stars
  • Sword of the Stars II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
Didn't he also say that Admin Cap penalties would be made stronger?

Yes, he did.

We have also increased the penalty for the amount of empire sprawl that exceeds your administrative capacity. The goal is not to make administrative a hard cap, but we want to make it necessary to invest some of your resources into increasing your administrative capacity. More on that later.

Unfortunately, this one did not do enough double takes, because I thought the DD was quite clear on the Penalties being adjusted as well.
 

Kayden_II

Banned
43 Badges
Jan 6, 2014
1.909
1.909
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Stellaris: Federations
Its hard to get the AI working when mechanics get ripped out and shoved back in under it- see 2.0/Apocalypse and how the AI suffered noticeably under the new model of expansion, or 2.2/Megacorp and its difficulties with the new economy. Diplomacy is the last of the Three Big Things that have been planned to be overhauled/expanded on for quite some time- once Diplomacy is done being reworked, we can assume that things will be stable enough to do proper work on improving and optimizing the AI without the systems its built for being scrapped and having to start over.
You don't paint the walls and arrange the furniture while you're still ripping out the rotten insulation and replacing load-bearing beams.
I consider such a statement as kinda offensive: "Rotten insulation" and "load-bearing beams" are clearly problems of the owner (PDS), but such problems hasn't hindered him / her to let already move in tenants (customers) into the "finished" apartment (Stellaris) - 3,5 years ago and to let them pay the bail (40 bucks) and the rents (DLCs) so far. So, if the tenants (customers) become a bit impatient then don't be surprised by that.
 

TurtleShroom

Censor
72 Badges
Dec 8, 2013
1.799
523
fanon.clubpenguinwiki.info
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Surviving Mars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma Pre-order
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Victoria 2
The current plan is for machine empires to be more reliant on keeping their administrative capacity in line with their empire sprawl, so machine empires will suffer a much harsher penalty for exceeding their cap. We want machines to feel “centralized” and to perhaps favor a more “tall” play style.

NO. NO. DEAR WORM NO. This isn't "Europa Universalis IV".

DO NOT force me into a play style or make it harder to play the way I fasting want. If you want Machine Empire players to play tall, INCENTIVIZE IT RATHER THAN PENALIZING IT.
 

BlackUmbrellas

Field Marshal
33 Badges
Nov 22, 2016
9.311
3.678
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Prison Architect
  • Cities: Skylines - Campus
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall - Revelations
  • Prison Architect: Psych Ward
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Island Bound
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Surviving Mars
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Teleglitch: Die More Edition
  • Crusader Kings II
I consider such a statement as kinda offensive: "Rotten insulation" and "load-bearing beams" are clearly problems of the owner (PDS), but such problems hasn't hindered him / her to let already move in tenants (customers) into the "finished" apartment (Stellaris) - 3,5 years ago and to let them pay the bail (40 bucks) and the rents (DLCs) so far. So, if the tenants (customers) become a bit impatient then don't be surprised by that.
I love the game, so you'll have to take my analogy within such a context. The point is, they CANT get the AI running properly until they settle on how the core mechanics should work. Hence, the Diplomacy Update is seen as The Next Big Thing that a lot of us are looking forwards to, because once THAT'S done, all three of the Big Three Things that were slated to be reworked will be done, and we can reasonably expect Paradox to be able to settle some other things (like the AI) that rely on that foundation being stable.

You don't move in and decorate until the renovations are complete.
 

Bandaro123

Second Lieutenant
33 Badges
Mar 7, 2015
146
10
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Knights of Honor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Mount & Blade: With Fire and Sword
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Magicka
I wonder if new AC system is one of the ideas to adress perfomance problem. Current meta is as much pops as you can fit, whether you play tall or wide, you butcher perfomance on the way to power. Is penalizing pops a step to a viable late game, so you don't grow as much?

True or not, I hope they don't kill tall plastyle, regardless of ethic - be it Megacorp, Pacifist or Machine Empire. Paradox already buffed Megastructures, most welcome change, but in future you might get eaten by a wide Hive before you set up your Dyson Sphere. There needs to be some other incentive to stay inside your borders - I love the idea of scaled penalty further from capital. Would work excellent with recent Habitat buffs.
 

slv

Captain
17 Badges
Nov 21, 2014
389
352
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Magicka: Wizard Wars Founder Wizard
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II
StarNet AI does not improve combat capability tho; no AI mod ever did nor will. Military AI is hard coded.
It''ll only throw more Alloys your way but won't coordinate attacks and will therefor never be a challange, unless improved.
How often did I beat Superior or Overwhelming empires simply because I doom stacked and they didn't.

Starnet has a few events which make AI doomstack a bit (once in a while they trigger and give AI orders to move one fleets towards the "flag-fleet". Notably these events do not merge fleets since somehow it's not possible to issue mergign command from a mod). Obviously, paradox AI has precedence and these events can't be a replacement for good hardcoded AI

Will they merge the split fleet back together though? Or remain seperated and build ships for both fleets?
Or do you mean they build a second fleet next to their main stack?

In any case, interesting find.
Shame @Glavius isn't working on the mod anymore, else I'd nag him about implementing this as a grander scale experiment.

Maybe we can approach @slv now for StarNet?

Edit: I opened a convo with you two.

Might be a good idea, although I feel like some people would start being very vocal about "cheating AI" if they got extra fleetcap. Maybe have it as a separate mod? Would probably be great indeed.
 

Methone

Field Marshal
16 Badges
Oct 27, 2018
7.197
4.552
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Stellaris: Necroids
NO. NO. DEAR WORM NO. This isn't "Europa Universalis IV".

DO NOT force me into a play style or make it harder to play the way I fasting want. If you want Machine Empire players to play tall, INCENTIVIZE IT RATHER THAN PENALIZING IT.
Seriously.

It's not even just that they're making a designated tall empire that bugs me, but it's that it's Machines. The ones for which HALF their playstyles are map painters. Not to mention they already have a designated tall empire in Megacorps.

I hope this summer experiment stays there; in summer.
 

lpslucasps

Second Lieutenant
29 Badges
Jul 9, 2016
114
30
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Cities in Motion 2
  • Magicka
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Stellaris
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
Seriously.

It's not even just that they're making a designated tall empire that bugs me, but it's that it's Machines. The ones for which HALF their playstyles are map painters. Not to mention they already have a designated tall empire in Megacorps.

I hope this summer experiment stays there; in summer.
A bigger sprawl malus won't really make the "map painters" any less viable. The most important thing for blobbing empires is military supremacy. Since the sprawl does not affect the economy/resources, each conquered system will give you more resources, more alloys, more naval capacity and more ships - which is what exterminators should really care about. Besides, exterminators have other means to compensate the tech/tradition malus - like the tons of reverse engineering you will get thanks to the constant state of warfare, or the unity from purging.
 

NothingToLose

Captain
42 Badges
Nov 16, 2016
483
39
  • Tyranny - Tales from the Tiers
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Surviving Mars: Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Shadowrun: Hong Kong
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Deluxe edition
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Sign Up
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall - Revelations
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Surviving Mars
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Tyranny - Bastards Wound
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
I figured the day would come eventually. It sounds like this will be the update that makes me shelf the game after 3051 hours played. I had no problem with all the other changes in previous versions; the direction Wiz took the game mostly improved it. Now it seems it's time to reduce the good parts of the current system and expand the parts that didn't need expanding. I'll give the new version a go when it comes out, but I can't help but feel it is increasingly unlikely to be enjoyable if this is the direction it's going. Can't complain though, if I do shelf it, I will still definitely have gotten my money's worth out of the game.