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Stellaris Dev Diary #142 - Sectors

Hello everyone!

Today we’re back with a dev diary and we want to take the opportunity to be more open with how we will attempt to tackle one of our more difficult systems – the sector system. The sector system was originally added to help players manage their planets, so that you would not need to micromanage everything once your empire gets large. We’ve often felt sectors are in a bit of an awkward place between different playstyles and what they actually should do for the player. Sectors have gone through a couple of different iterations, but never felt quite right.

I will start by outlining some of the goals with the (new) system and problems with the old one. This probably doesn’t include every concern for every player who ever used sectors, but it should cover some of the larger things. If you have something to add, we certainly want to hear about it!

The goal
  • Sectors should help to alleviate the player’s need to micromanage everything
  • Sectors should feel like a more unique part of the player’s empire
Problems
  • Sector geography can feel wrong
  • There are too many sectors in late-game
  • Wars and rebellions can mess up sectors
  • Player has to micro the sector economy
  • No manual control of sector area
  • Sectors don’t manage space stations
  • No “sector capitals”
I CANNOT PROMISE THAT ALL THESE CHANGES WILL HAPPEN, OR THAT THEY WILL APPEAR IN THE SAME UPDATE.

Sector types

The Core sector will be the sector that is formed around your homeworld and any system within range. A regular sector is formed around a Sector Capital, which you will be able to assign. It will also include all systems within range. Any system or planet not within a sector will be considered to belong to “Frontier Space”.

We are looking into also having different sector types, or sector policies, in which you could have different settings for sectors. Potentially, a sector could perhaps adjust its range in inverse relation to something else, like Administrative Capacity. Occupation Zones might also be a valid sector type, to make it easier to manage conquered territory.

Sector range simply means all systems within X jumps from the sector capital.

Sector budget
Players will have the ability to give resources to a shared sector pool, both as one-off grants and as monthly subsidies. This will convert minerals/energy into a sector budget, like it currently does. The new thing being automated monthly subsidies and a shared pool. It will still be possible to give a specific sector grants. Sectors will first attempt to use resources from its own pool, then from the shared pool.

Players will also be able to set planet automation to on/off. Planets in sectors will have automation turned On by default. This means you should be able to turn off automation for a specific planet in your sector, which you may sometimes want to do.

Sectors can have a sector focus, similar to how they do now in 2.2. The automatic control of planets should take sector focus and planet designation in consideration.

Sector geography
The current plan is to have systems be automatically added to a sector within range. If a system could belong to two different sectors, it should be possible to nudge them to decide which sector they belong to. This important for players being able to set a sector geography that looks good to them in their game.

Moving sector capital will also redraw the sector, and could potentially remove or add new systems to it. You cannot add systems to a sector if they are outside its range. Systems must also maintain cohesion to a sector, so it's not possible to cut off parts of a sector.

Planet designations
We really like the planet designations, i.e. “Mining World, Agri World, Forge World”, but we also want the player to have more control over them. We want to add the ability to manually set a planet designation, in addition to the automatic setting. If you designate a planet to be a Mining World, it should perhaps also be quicker to build mining districts there. It should generally feel cooler to colonize a world, and based on its features, immediately be able to decide it should be an Agri World – and designate it accordingly!

We also hope this will make it easier for the AI to specialize their planets a bit more in certain cases.

Governors
Although governors will remain mostly the same as to how they are now, we will try to remake the governor traits to be a bit more generic and applicable to a sector as a whole, as opposed to being so planet-specific with their bonuses.

Space stations
We have discussed adding an auto-build function for construction ships, similar to auto-explore, which should hopefully solve this problem better.

---

I CANNOT PROMISE THAT ALL THESE CHANGES WILL HAPPEN, OR THAT THEY WILL APPEAR IN THE SAME UPDATE.

Our goal is to be able to able to get as much of this done by the next update as possible, but I cannot promise what will get in when. This sector rework is fairly ambitious, so it might be deployed in sections over a few updates. I very much like the design though, and I think it's a good foundation to build upon.

Since the launch of 2.2 we've been a little quiet, with a focus on extensive post-launch support. Going forward however, I'd like to increase our interactions with you, our community. While we want to have a more open communication, we want to avoid over promising or disappointing you if ideas change radically.

This is also a good chance for you affect this great game, so I hope an open discussion will lead to some constructive exchanges.
 
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BlackUmbrellas

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Oh god no, you stil want to keep the "All planet within range are part of this sector" ? Seriously ? That's absurd ! Not only do you end up with 2, 3 planet sectors, it clutters the UI and is virtually useless. Why can't you just give us the pre-2.2 sector creation toolkit ? Where we could modify sectors as we wished as long as they were one contiguous entity. Without sectors wielding any form of true power making that change would be QoL, not gameplay changing. So why won't you do it ? I guess you could say that it could give you a one sector empire with a single governor, then you can simply make the cost of the governor's pay scale with the sector's size (or basically it's administrative value).
Player control over sector layout allows players too much power to game the system and de-claws any potential mechanics that sectors might have for interacting with other systems (like secession movements/rebellions).
 

Duuk

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Again, I’m not seeing how this follows. Can you please explain?
It is widely believed by players, and the dev team has not denied it and has implicitly implied it, that in a future DLC there will be internal empire politics, revolt risk, etc (like most other Paradox games like Europa Universals, Crusader Kings, and Victoria)
 

eagletrekkie

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It is widely believed by players, and the dev team has not denied it and has implicitly implied it, that in a future DLC there will be internal empire politics, revolt risk, etc (like most other Paradox games like Europa Universals, Crusader Kings, and Victoria)
Not what I’m getting at. How does player control of how sectors are formed immediately render this moot?
 

leszek stachon

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I'm for fixed sector/cluster frontiers and obligatory governor in each sector because of … further, possible espionage DLC
How to incite revolt in given sector if it can disappear instantly…
How to bribe or kill governor if the sector has no governor, by the way, sector without governor is "unrealistic".
There is no obligation to buy governors for influence, they can disappear from leader pool for good, instead id like to see there some special agents/spies.
 

DreadLindwyrm

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Again, I’m not seeing how this follows. Can you please explain?
Previous versions have had player made sectors essentially be "the core", and "everything else". This was not really an intended result. Being able to stick a maximum level governor onto 95% of your empire is overly strong, even if you inflate his pay.

Neither is breaking troublesome sectors into single planet ones.

The old sectors also had the weird effect where the "core" sector would consist of the capital and most recently colonised few systems.


And then there's the (theoretical) reforms of sectors so they're going to wield at least some power.
 

DreadLindwyrm

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I'm for fixed sector/cluster frontiers and obligatory governor in each sector because of … further, possible espionage DLC
How to incite revolt in given sector if it can disappear instantly…
How to bribe or kill governor if the sector has no governor, by the way, sector without governor is "unrealistic".
There is no obligation to buy governors for influence, they can disappear from leader pool for good, instead id like to see there some special agents/spies.
A sector without a governor just means the sector is run by either a non-exceptional individual, or a committee/council without a single leader. Perhaps a rotating chair, perhaps a "balanced" group of personalities.

Plus they're not bought with influence any more.
 

Yagami913

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One problem here is that you want the game to remember the build order for every planet you make, just in case you later (perhaps 1-200 years later!) decide to use that as a template. This isn't necessarily a simple or "cheap" option, when you consider that at least for multiplayer the game has to remember build order for every planet in every empire.
Dude im a programmer and and average save file alredy close to 1 million line. Lets say maximum 1000 planet with 100 build history its nothing even in the save file or in the memory and thats it.
Theres also that if you copy a template from a world at (say) 20 pop and use that elsewhere the template will only allow the planet to grow to 20 before you have to give it an updated template, perhaps from a 30, or 40, or 50 pop world.
In addition, you may want world B to upgrade to the highest tier buildings available *immediately* rather than waiting until it has developed the same size your template planet was when you researched them.
No, no and no. Its AUTOMATIC when the planet need to build a new building then look what the other planet did its not static its contionus.

And then there are problems with worlds that have different deposits or features that change the balance point for what a world should build, or even *can* build.
I still dont see this is a problem. Cant build building because desposit, just skip it. Cant build district because not enough space? Skip it. And if the world has a +20% enegy modifier is the PLAYER job to copy an energy world. If u want to copy A to B and B completly different from A its the PLAYER FAULT.
 

Warchild421

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What about if the "sector capital" needed a specific level of planetary administration building (eg, the current "planetary capital")? That would then open up the scope for a next layer up above sectors (say, quadrants?) that could control a significantly wider area once they had a System Capital Complex.

This would then tie the shift from frontier space to a sector into the development of the planets involved.


The idea of a quadrant is cool, I would say it should be one step above sectors. Maybe a admin type tech you have to research. Once researched you could set sectors into Quadrants. It would be similar to CK2 Barony/County/Duchy/Kingdom. You could then have different type of governors that deal with different levels of Qovernment. And with the Diplo update there could be more internal conflicts. Maybe inside a quadrant they are vying for political power. All your militarist pops move to one sector, and try to drive out any pacifist pops from that quadrant. That would open up more enjoyable internal issues.

It would also help once your empire gets to a size where 30 sectors starts to get a little micro heavy. The sectors still show up but you could place them under the control of a Quadrant Commander. At that point the sector would disappear from the sector list and be moved under its respective Quadrant.

This would require some good UI to implement but I think it could be worth it.
 

DreadLindwyrm

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That way, empires need no leaders either...
In theory.
But at that level *someone* will end up in charge.

The point is though that appointing a governor is just putting a named, exceptional individual in charge of it, and this appointment doesn't have to be immediate. There can be *months* pass when a mayor or state governor is not in place should one die unexpectedly.
 

Warchild421

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A sector without a governor just means the sector is run by either a non-exceptional individual, or a committee/council without a single leader. Perhaps a rotating chair, perhaps a "balanced" group of personalities.

Plus they're not bought with influence any more.


A sector governor that is automatically assigned on creation of a sector could work. Then depending on the type of government you have the sector would work similar. Have a type of democratic government, every 4 years your sectors get a possible new sector governor.

With a Diplo update that includes internal politics, they could then have it so that different sectors want different types of local government. You take over a new planet with Authoritarians, you would then be stuck with a governor until their death.

If you don't have a governor on a sector, through revolution, assassination, or some such it could then have a higher rate of crime. or longer building times.
 

DreadLindwyrm

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Dude im a programmer and and average save file alredy close to 1 million line. Lets say maximum 1000 planet with 100 build history its nothing even in the save file or in the memory and thats it.

No, no and no. Its AUTOMATIC when the planet need to build a new building then look what the other planet did its not static its contionus.


I still dont see this is a problem. Cant build building because desposit, just skip it. Cant build district because not enough space? Skip it. And if the world has a +20% enegy modifier is the PLAYER job to copy an energy world. If u want to copy A to B and B completly different from A its the PLAYER FAULT.
So not only are your planets saved in case you want to make a template from them, but every single one is constantly updating everytime you build anything?

Do you not see how this constant reading in and out of extra data is *another* potential slow down in a game that is already suffering performance issues? 10% extra data (using your numbers) is not "nothing".

This still doesn't address that building in the same order your early energy planet did is not necessarily appropriate for how to build your mid-game energy planet that now has access to higher tier buildings, *and thus should be built in a different order*.

Also, why are you so keen to effectively neuter the AI rather than get a better performing one that can build to sensible templates? Why are you resistant to the idea of making the sector AI (and thus the computer economic AI) more functional rather than just having it copy a build order which is likely to be less than relevant as you get higher tier technology - and that will miss important deposits without micromanagement?
 

DreadLindwyrm

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A sector governor that is automatically assigned on creation of a sector could work. Then depending on the type of government you have the sector would work similar. Have a type of democratic government, every 4 years your sectors get a possible new sector governor.

With a Diplo update that includes internal politics, they could then have it so that different sectors want different types of local government. You take over a new planet with Authoritarians, you would then be stuck with a governor until their death.

If you don't have a governor on a sector, through revolution, assassination, or some such it could then have a higher rate of crime. or longer building times.
It could work - bearing in mind that "no governor" already means the sector is missing key bonuses, and there are possible "bad traits" for most areas we have good traits for (and I think crime already has a bad trait associated with it?).

Authoritarian governors should be able to be fired on the spot by central government though.
 

BlackUmbrellas

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Authoritarian governors should be able to be fired on the spot by central government though.
Depends on the specific government/civics of the empire, I imagine- Authoritarian governments may well place increased power on the central/core rulership, but they also rely on that same authority being seen in their governors. Revoking a power aristocrats power wouldn't go down well with that aristrocrat and their family, after all, so you could well be challenged with a sector-wide secession/rebellion if you tried to remove its leadership.
 

DreadLindwyrm

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Depends on the specific government/civics of the empire, I imagine- Authoritarian governments may well place increased power on the central/core rulership, but they also rely on that same authority being seen in their governors. Revoking a power aristocrats power wouldn't go down well with that aristrocrat and their family, after all, so you could well be challenged with a sector-wide secession/rebellion if you tried to remove its leadership.
So... feudal type authoritarians don't get a revoke, but military dictatorships do?

It's a possible game play distinction, with it perhaps being impossible to pick the governor for feudals.
You might not pay for them (after the first??), but they're almost impossible to remove?
 

Warchild421

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So... feudal type authoritarians don't get a revoke, but military dictatorships do?

It's a possible game play distinction, with it perhaps being impossible to pick the governor for feudals.
You might not pay for them (after the first??), but they're almost impossible to remove?


There are 50 some odd different types of governments, so while there should be different rules that can dictate how you can assign/remove governors, I don't think you could do it for every type. But having a few different rules per government authority type would enhance the flavor of each empire.
 

coreymas

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IMHO dynamic grouping might be a better answer to the sector issue... so basically you lump things into user defined groups etc. Then this can be controlled and manipulated using the outlier. so if you want to lump your agri worlds into one "sector" you can easily see them etc.
You could also add other types of things to that grouping depending on importance (like creating a frontiers sector) where you have a few planets, bases, ships, etc. Do we really need physical geography to define the sector?

These groups can have rules applied to them like (grow planets in sector as Mining planets... construct military ships based on ship templates... etc)
 

Yagami913

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So not only are your planets saved in case you want to make a template from them, but every single one is constantly updating everytime you build anything?

Do you not see how this constant reading in and out of extra data is *another* potential slow down in a game that is already suffering performance issues? 10% extra data (using your numbers) is not "nothing".
Ok im very sorry but im not gona lecture you from programming. So either believe when i tell you its not an overhead or not i dont care.

This still doesn't address that building in the same order your early energy planet did is not necessarily appropriate for how to build your mid-game energy planet that now has access to higher tier buildings, *and thus should be built in a different order*.

Also, why are you so keen to effectively neuter the AI rather than get a better performing one that can build to sensible templates? Why are you resistant to the idea of making the sector AI (and thus the computer economic AI) more functional rather than just having it copy a build order which is likely to be less than relevant as you get higher tier technology - and that will miss important deposits without micromanagement?
I NEVER argued anywhere against a better sector ai. I said its never ever be good enough for a min-maxer player. Why are you so keen about your thoughts only? Be a little more open about new ideas instead of try to find errors in every comment. Please try to bee more constructive.