Stellaris Dev Diary #132 - Ecumenopolis and Megastructures

[Lanrete]

Why are you building all the defense platforms on every starbase? That's your fault, not the game's.

Except there is a limited amount of matter, and energy, in the universe. Plus there's the limit of how much we can process at once.

Propaganda? Really? You deny human-accelerated climate change too?

1. Neither do you.
2. Yes, they do. Matter, and energy is limited, as is our intake of them.

>Except there is a limited amount of matter, and energy, in the universe. Plus there's the limit of how much we can process at once.

1. The "limited amount" of a universe is EVERYTHING to us, if we don't go outside the universe. And if we do- we get all other universes.
2. Matter and energy are not "spent", no, they are formed into different shapes, or into each other. So, we can "use up" all matter and energy, only if we convert all of our universe into humans and buildings and consumer goods. And if we can achieve it...well, what's the problem with that? Why can't we have humans and cosmos everywhere, instead of nature and cosmos everywhere? The argument of non-deep ecologists is "for the benefit of man". What is good for man? Expansionism, self-propagation, prosperity and progress. If we hit the glass wall of transforming ALL matter-energy of this universe- we achive the maximum prosperity and progress. What's the problem with that? And we our universe is not the only one (and it isn't)- well, it's just one of the stages on the path of the human evolution, just like we passed the tribal stage, the planet stage, etc. So, all environmentalist arguments are invalid here, as long as they are not from a "deep ecologist" "we don't care about human prosperity" perspective.

3. The "limited amount" might as well be an infinite amount, as the cosmos is "pseudo-infinite" (expands infinitely) by most theories.

>Propaganda? Really? You deny human-accelerated climate change too?
No, I just don't care about climate change, as it does zero damage. And at the point when it can do some damage- it's much more logical to start shaping the climate with a technosphere, instead of supporting the old and flawed ecosphere.

>1. Neither do you.
Nope. I do know that matter can be used as a resource, so I can state it.
>2. Yes, they do. Matter, and energy is limited, as is our intake of them.
Matter and energy are not vapourized and our intake is limited only with the amount of matterenergy and our technological advance. With structures large enough, we can even use solar lifting and black-hole lifting.

 

[Aquilegia]

Ecuminopoli can still provide jobs in scientific research and soldiering, right? That way I can have a science ecuminopolis or a barracks world?

More easily than ordinary planets even. You still have building slots on an ecuminopolis, but you won't need entertainer/forge/consumer industries/housing/amenity/raw resource buildings, since arcologies themselves can provide entertainers/metallurgists/artisans and the planet can't produce raw resources. Leaving you with a lot of open building slots you can use for research or military buildings.

 

[Lanrete]

I'm actually quite against the idea that all the younger races should have their greatest achievements be emulations of the decadent and dismissive failed empires you find scattered around the galaxy. New art > rehashing the "classics" imo.



As much as I disagree with the person who literally is counting clicks between patches in his/her never ending crusade against the evils of micro, your numbers mean nothing and the insinuation they're bad for their lower numbers isn't helpful at all. As someone who plays on medium and small galaxies with habitable planets on .25, the idea of anyone suggesting that I should have 100's of planets is laughably absurd.

I didn't say that they are bad. I was really shocked by the numbers, as, playing with 5 planets for me is almost the same as having a full-time shooter session with a squad of full-sized people in a single "ordinary-size" livingroom.

 

[James Fire]

>Propaganda? Really? You deny human-accelerated climate change too?
No, I just don't care about climate change, as it does zero damage. And at the point when it can do some damage- it's much more logical to start shaping the climate with a technosphere, instead of supporting the old and flawed ecosphere.

LOL, that's rich. Not doing damage. Storms are more frequent, and more violent than they were a decade ago. But that's getting off topic.

Matter and energy are not vapourized and our intake is limited only with the amount of matterenergy and our technological advance. With structures large enough, we can even use solar lifting and black-hole lifting.

And we need to keep matter in a stable form for our structures, so it is used. May as well be vapourized for all our ability to use it elsewhere.

 

[Mr. Capiatlist]

I think we've strayed sufficiently away from the the purpose of this thread. This 'discussion' of whether or not we should destroy the environment is an strangely existential one and one that has outlived its life here.

May entropy eventually consume us all.

 

[Zeelilus]

I didn't say that they are bad. I was really shocked by the numbers

My mistake then, I just assumed you were going with the time honored tradition of "You're bad at the game and thus can't have an opinion". I've never seen the appeal of having dozens of worlds honestly. 2.2 might change it a bit, but in the current game it mostly comes down to "How many mines do you want to upgrade this year?"

 

[The_Meme_Man]

More easily than ordinary planets even. You still have building slots on an ecuminopolis, but you won't need entertainer/forge/consumer industries/housing/amenity/raw resource buildings, since arcologies themselves can provide entertainers/metallurgists/artisans and the planet can't produce raw resources. Leaving you with a lot of open building slots you can use for research or military buildings.

*happy bugle noises*

 

[CmdrPanorpa]

If Megastructures still can't be upgraded/built more than one at the same time. It will take centuries to build/upgrade them all

I have always thought that being able to task construction ships to a megastructure would increase the build speed. Of course not 100 of them, just a couple so it goes maybe a max of 25% faster or something, just to help if you are building lots.

 

[Highlordelliot]

I'm actually quite against the idea that all the younger races should have their greatest achievements be emulations of the decadent and dismissive failed empires you find scattered around the galaxy. New art > rehashing the "classics" imo.



As much as I disagree with the person who literally is counting clicks between patches in his/her never ending crusade against the evils of micro, your numbers mean nothing and the insinuation they're bad for their lower numbers isn't helpful at all. As someone who plays on medium and small galaxies with habitable planets on .25, the idea of anyone suggesting that I should have 100's of planets is laughably absurd.

Ok. Fallen empire style mega structure with younger race characteristics instead.

 

[tanny]

But no technology could decompress matter from a black hole. Gathering hawking radiation isn't practical either. No advanced technology could do this. How is that even possible?

 

[Rogoda]

So if we want a planet to become an ecumenopolis the other districts would have to be demolished? Guess it would be an easy sacrifice for a large world with relatively low potential resource output.

Please let them be like machine worlds, allowing for as many as you can afford to have.

 

[Arkangilos]

But no technology could decompress matter from a black hole. Gathering hawking radiation isn't practical either. No advanced technology could do this. How is that even possible?

No technology can get us faster than light either. It's sci-fi for a reason lol

 

[mergele]

But no technology could decompress matter from a black hole. Gathering hawking radiation isn't practical either. No advanced technology could do this. How is that even possible?

With tech we haven't invented yet.

 

[tinkerware]

Agreed. Modern environmentalism is incompatible with progress on an interstellar scale. Disassembling planets to build megastructures is hardly a 'green' position.

One of these days want to play as a fanatic environmentalist that makes all its planets into nature preserves and lives in ring worlds and habitats.

 

[FaintestVirus]

The only little, personal nitpick I have a bit is that I kinda wish there was more than one appearance for the city planet. Like maybe one additional one with blue/cyan lights instead of orange to make it appear more sleek/utopian.

I personally agree. I would like it if the design perhaps reflected the selected building type, even if slightly. I feel like the current design could easily "not look right" with some of the building types. However I understand if that is outside the scope of their plans or even reasonable devotion of time. Never hurts to suggest though . Eitherway I am very excited. My main empire is a Corporate Dominion, so the new MegaCorp stuff is the best thing that could possibly happen to me lol. My goal is to eventually choose a planet to relocate my Corporate(empire) capital to, likely one of my first colonies, and turn it into an ecumenopolis, while leaving earth to remain a massive urban world.

 

[Orinsul]

Could the Matter Decompressor be described as catching matter that is being sucked into the black hole rather than pulling out of?

 

[Daoko__]

I'm actually quite against the idea that all the younger races should have their greatest achievements be emulations of the decadent and dismissive failed empires you find scattered around the galaxy. New art > rehashing the "classics" imo.

I'd rather my Fanatic Purifier's take inspiration from the technologically superior elders than from their neighbours though. Because it makes no sense for my Anthropoid species with an Avian shipset to build a megastructure like the Instellar Assembly with clear Humanoid shipset influences or Matter Decompressor and Coordination Center with Mammalian shipset infuences.

edit; Although, perhaps there might be different styles in accordance to whichever species you are. Yes, I'm just going to hold on to that hope

 

[Xephos Demonslayer]

Will the precursor home planet of the first league be a abondened ecumenopolis? The Story behind that precursor empire implies that, with the former inhabitants all dead, because of lack of Food. Always thought that the Buildings and the planets ability to enable life there shouldnt be harmed just by its former Population starved.

I was about to disagree and say that was OP... but then I remembered Cybrex Alpha. Though that does take some 80k minerals to fix, so maybe the 1st League homewirkd should have a special project that takes a decade or so to clean the ruins and clear the skeletons (along with a decent investment of resources), which would then make it a habitable ecumenopolis. So actually a good suggestion, IMO.

It does not appear that there is a limit on city worlds. Can I make more than one if I really want?

I know feeding them resources will make having more than one problematic, but is there a hard cap on their use?

You can have as many as you want, but you'll need other worlds to feed raw resources and food into them to keep them going.

So, if we can turn planets into cities, how about adding the ability to Eicumenopolize habitats and ring-worlds? Kinda tired of the boring and unpractical "let's place lakes and forests in a space station" eco-trope. And how about an ability for the machine empires to machineworldize those space structures?

Yeah, halo on a solar scale w/o the doomsday device is a pretty cool concept, but just imagine how many factories you could put there instead...

 

[Rip Off Productions]

Have to say, it does feel like the gestalt empire types are getting a raw deal with many of the new features.

I kinda get flavour reasons for being locked out of some features (ie no civilian ecomony = no trade routes) but why is a technological feat like constructing an Ecumenopolis being denied them? What inherent attribute of gestalts justifies them not being able to build city-planets?

Machine Gestalts have machine world filling a similar role, organic hiveminds seem to be themed around organic/natural "perfection"/ascension and (plus cities are an idea/concept /function to make communication/interaction between individuals faster/easier, so maybe hiveminds don't need them sense all drones are controlled and work in tandem for the central intelligence of their species), plus maybe something about food production being more important to them, and the leisure district of the Ecumenopolis is somewhat pointless for them

sure the organic explanation is a bit shallow, but over all it still sort of makes sense.

 

[LystAP]

If you transform a Gaia world into a Ecumenopolis, will it lose it's Gaia world boosts (10% resource increase, +5% happiness)?