Stellaris Dev Diary #129 - Tradition Updates

[TheDungen]

CAKE! No, wait... CAKE.

Wasn't there an empire archetype in spore who were obsessed with cake?

 

[Kami-sama]

"have to reiterate that we're not yet ready to reveal anything about when 2.2 ‘Le Guin’ is coming out"

The day this sentence is missing will be a very happy day.

Guess who's having a very happy day now XD

 

[Serenity84]

i don't like the flavor text for the judge dread referencing tradition that reduce crime : what if i want to roleplay a democratic liberal society ?

And by popular demand the flavor text will be changed (source: Wiz in the stream)

 

[Turnil]

The expansion tree still looks very awkward.

Firstly, administrative cap doesn't fit with the theme, depending on how "empire size" and the associated penalties work.
If the penalties are linear with the transgression (just like the majority of penalties in Stellaris), then administrative cap is more useful to a small empire than to a large empire.
I would therefore suggest that Courier Network (expansion) and Standard Construction Templates (prosperity) are swapped.
STC helps you to quickly develop planets, which seems to be exactly what the expansion tree is all about.
Inversely, Courier Network lets you get more out of the planets you already have - which seems to be the prosperity theme.

Secondly, the expansion tree has a lot of bonuses which become irrelevant relatively quickly.
An extra pop on a newly colonized planet, extra development speed and being able to quickly upgrade the main building is only relevant so far as the player is actively colonizing new planets.
However, my experience is that available planets quickly reach zero, and any new planets in my empire must be taken from xenos.
The same goes for starbase influence cost, which is only relevant when you're actively building starbases, which again is an activity that tapers off as unclaimed territory disappears.

I'd suggest that the expansion tree also embraces aggressive expansion to deal with the second issue
Bonuses that would fit with this theme (and stay relevant for a larger part of the game) include, but are not limited to:
- Reduced claim influence cost (we will take what is rightfully ours)
- Increased sublight speed (to make sure both civilian and military vessels can still cover your much larger empire)
- Increased effects of migration pull/push (meaning overpopulated worlds more quickly transfer their pops to new, less populated worlds)
- Reduced leader recruitment cost (what's the point of all this territory if there's no one to govern it?)

In the last stream, they have said that the expansion tree finisher has been changed to +1 district on all planets.
Who knows what other changes are coming before the games comes out.

 

[Blurb]

In the last stream, they have said that the expansion tree finisher has been changed to +1 district on all planets.
Who knows what other changes are coming before the games comes out.

It sounds like a very attractive bonus, but does it fit with the expansion theme?
Having more districts per planet doesn't provide direct help or incentive towards an expansionist policy.
It does however improve your existing planets, which seems to be the realm of the prosperity tree.

 

[TheDungen]

It sounds like a very attractive bonus, but does it fit with the expansion theme?
Having more districts per planet doesn't provide direct help or incentive towards an expansionist policy.
It does however improve your existing planets, which seems to be the realm of the prosperity tree.

I can second that, it seems to be a tall thing in the wide tree.

 

[LeSingeAffame]

It sounds like a very attractive bonus, but does it fit with the expansion theme?
Having more districts per planet doesn't provide direct help or incentive towards an expansionist policy.
It does however improve your existing planets, which seems to be the realm of the prosperity tree.

The Expansion Traditions are themed around colonizing faster, growing a large population, and generally having a large empire

Not the best finisher, but it seems to fit

 

[TheDungen]

Not the best finisher, but it seems to fit

If large empire means tall as well as wide then what it the alternative have a small empire, not as in tall but as in just not very powerful? Doesn't seem like much of a choice.

 

[Timjames]

The Domination Traditions are no longer focused around vassals, but are instead focused around reducing crime, better workers and slaves, and better rulers and governors.

Will having lots of vassals still be viable strategy?

 

[Masoz]

I can second that, it seems to be a tall thing in the wide tree.

I'm not too sure about that. The more planets you have, the more extra districts you get no?

I also don't see any indication this gets you over the district hard cap. If that's true, tall empires with overcrowded planets won't see much benefit if they can hit this cap anyway, but wide empires who get a "free" district (as in not needing to meet the pop requirement) would get a big bonus.

 

[Turnil]

How about a penalty reducer for finishing the expansion traditions.
This will scale nicely if you go big.
And wizz said that you nearly always go over the administration limit.

 

[Blurb]

I'm not too sure about that. The more planets you have, the more extra districts you get no?

By that logic, most bonuses are wide in nature.
Extra resource production, such as that from Mining Guilds, applies to every planet, so the more planets you have the more resources you get.
Is +15% minerals something you'd say favours a wide playstyle or a tall playstyle?

 

[Kayden_II]

Honestly, I think, that the "Card-Deck-System" (from the technologies) fits way better into the traditions ...
01. Each tradition as a single "card" aka no tradition-trees at all anymore ...
(This eliminates some major problems like the need of "equal" tradition-trees or the need of traditions which have to fit into their respective tradition-tree, whereas this opens up the possibilities for mutually exclusive or/and "upgradeable" traditions) ...
02. It depends on your government-form, ethics, civics and factions, which "cards" will be presented to you to choose from ...
03. Business as usual, that a certain amount of unlocked traditions unlocks an ascension-perk-slot ...
04. To prevent this current, but rather silly situation, that you will unlock all the traditions in each game, introduce a cap for them ...
(35 traditions and 8 a-perk-slots in this dev-diary: For example, let me relate this cap to the a-perk-slots (8) + 1 a-perk-slot will be unlocked by 3 traditions, which leads to a cap of 24 traditions).

 

[jPaolo]

Administration cap is a horrible idea and I'm disappointed that it's going to be part of planetary rework.

 

[BlackUmbrellas]

Administration cap is a horrible idea and I'm disappointed that it's going to be part of planetary rework.

Why is it a horrible idea? Plead your case.

 

[henzington]

Administration cap is a horrible idea and I'm disappointed that it's going to be part of planetary rework.

It is a transparent form of what exists already. In fact, it is better as you can actually increase it where as now there is no way to reduce the penalty for expanding even by a single system or pop.

 

[LeSingeAffame]

Administration cap is a horrible idea and I'm disappointed that it's going to be part of planetary rework.

No, it's far better than the directly controlled planets or systems that we've had before and now.
Why would controlling 2/3 of the galaxy be okay but suddenly you had a newly colonized planet and all your empire administration crumbles?
Why would controlling 10 shitholes be as hard as controlling 10 completely devoloped planets?

The old cap was not horrible, but it did not make sense. Now (or rather, once it's out there) we have something far better.

 

[jPaolo]

Why is it a horrible idea? Plead your case.

It is a transparent form of what exists already. In fact, it is better as you can actually increase it where as now there is no way to reduce the penalty for expanding even by a single system or pop.

No, it's far better than the directly controlled planets or systems that we've had before and now.
Why would controlling 2/3 of the galaxy be okay but suddenly you had a newly colonized planet and all your empire administration crumbles?
Why would controlling 10 shitholes be as hard as controlling 10 completely devoloped planets?
The old cap was not horrible, but it did not make sense. Now (or rather, once it's out there) we have something far better.

Because right now I can have galaxy-spanning empire without any ridiculous maluses. The core system limit doesn't concern me, since I have no problem with assigning planets to sectors. I won't have this option when 2.2 comes out. Maybe you like to play with all planets directly controlled so it's the same for you, but for me it's different story.
This is like Corruption mechanic from EU4. It's not interesting, it's not exciting, it's just annoying punishment for playing the game. The worst part is that it works the same as its EU4 counterpart: it only makes costs higher. It's boring, it's annoying and it doesn't add anything to the game.
I was really looking forward towards next update, but it seems I'll just have to play on "obsolete" version until somebody makes some mod removing this poor excuse of a feature.

 

[BlackUmbrellas]

Because right now I can have galaxy-spanning empire without any ridiculous maluses. The core system limit doesn't concern me, since I have no problem with assigning planets to sectors. I won't have this option when 2.2 comes out. Maybe you like to play with all planets directly controlled so it's the same for you, but for me it's different story.
This is like Corruption mechanic from EU4. It's not interesting, it's not exciting, it's just annoying punishment for playing the game. The worst part is that it works the same as its EU4 counterpart: it only makes costs higher. It's boring, it's annoying and it doesn't add anything to the game.
I was really looking forward towards next update, but it seems I'll just have to play on "obsolete" version until somebody makes some mod removing this poor excuse of a feature.

The admin cap is the equivalent of the core system limit (and, I believe, the research/unity malus for colonies and outposts) under the new system (because under the new system sectors are totally different, automatic, and you don't have a "core sector" beyond the physical reality of the planets next to your homeworld), and there will doubtless be techs, civics, etc that raise it.

 

[jPaolo]

The admin cap is the equivalent of the core system limit (and, I believe, the research/unity malus for colonies and outposts) under the new system (because under the new system sectors are totally different, automatic, and you don't have a "core sector" beyond the physical reality of the planets next to your homeworld), and there will doubtless be techs, civics, etc that raise it.

I get this, but right now I can safely ignore this mechanic with sectors because I don't mind using them. If I hit the limit and want to colonise new planet, I'll simply move one of core colonies to a sector. This means I never get this annoying malus for breaching the limit.
With the upcoming rework I'll have no choice but paying attention to this irritating speedbump. I don't care that some techs will raise it, the fact still remains that I'll have to care about that.