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Stellaris Dev Diary #126 - Sectors and Factions in 2.2

Hello everyone and welcome to another Stellaris development diary. Today we're going to continue talking about the 2.2 'Le Guin' update, on the topic of Sectors and Factions. As said before, we're not yet ready to reveal anything about when Le Guin is coming out, only that it's a long time away and we have many more topics to cover before then. Also as said before, screenshots will contain placeholder art and interfaces and non-final numbers.

Sector Rework
Sectors have always been a bit of a controversial feature. Even if you disregard arguments about the general level of competence of the sector AI, the fact that sectors effectively force the player to cede control over all but a few of their planets has never gone down well with certain players. In truth, the decision to force players to give planets to sectors was very much a result of the old tile system - because of the sheer amount of micromanagement that was involved in managing a large number of planets, it was decided that automation was necessary, and also to make that automation mandatory (barring mods) to effectively force players to not make themselves miserable by micromanaging the tiles of a hundred different worlds. With the planetary rework in the Le Guin update, we no longer feel that this mandatory automation is needed any longer, and so we've decided to rework the sector system entirely.

Instead of being autonomous mini-economies, sectors are now administrative units in your empire, with their layout decided by galactic geography, with each sector corresponding to a cluster of stars in the galaxy. Sectors are automatically created when you colonize a planet in a previously uncolonized cluster, and your 'core sector' is simply the cluster in which your capital is located. All interfaces that are relevant to sectors and planets (such as the outliner) are now organized by collapsible sector entries, allowing for better overview and management of a large number of planets. As before, each sector can have a governor assigned to it, but sectors now automatically send all of their production to the empire stockpile instead of having their own fully realized economy. However, since we still want players to be able to offload some of the planetary management when controlling a large number of worlds, it is still possible to allocate resources to a Governor, who will use those resources to develop the planets under their control. This of course means that there is no longer any core sector limit, and anything that previously used to give a bonus to core sector planets has either been changed into a different bonus or removed altogether.

EDIT: Since there's a lot of questions about leader capacity, please read down a bit further in the thread where I address this issue. Thank you!

(Note: Image is highly WIP and has missing elements)
2018_09_20_2.png

Faction Happiness Rework
Factions are also changing in Le Guin, though not to nearly the same degree as sectors. Most of the core mechanics of factions will remain the same, but Faction Happiness is being changed into something we call Faction Approval, measuring how much a Faction approves of your empire's policies. Where previously Factions would only give influence when above a 60% happiness threshold, Factions now always give some influence, with the amount scaling linearly to their Approval, so a 10% Approval faction will give only 1/10th of the influence that a 100% Approval faction gives you (the amount they give also still scales to their share of power in your empire). Faction Approval is also no longer directly applied to Pop Happiness, but rather will affect the happiness of Pops belonging to that faction at different thresholds, with small boosts to happiness at higher levels of approval and increasingly severe penalties to happiness at low levels of approval (effectively swapping the influence threshold for various happiness thresholds).

This should mean that even small boosts to faction approval now directly translates into influence gain, and that factions almost always give *some* benefit, even if that benefit may be outweighed by the unhappiness and unrest they can cause. We're also hoping to have time to review the faction issues, tying them more directly to policies to make them easier to understand. For example, instead of demanding that all species have their rights manually set to Full Citizenship, the Xenophile faction might demand a certain empire-wide policy setting that forces the equal application of species rights across all species.
2018_09_20_1.png


That's all for today! Next week we're continuing to talk about the Le Guin update, on the topic of Trade Value and Trade Routes.
 
Last edited:

Guraan

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Yes...
Hi there!
For those who do not know me, i am a programmer on stellaris and _not_ a game designer.
Gonna do as i did for the new economics, but for sectors (hope it will help), and talk about the stuff i know lol.
Now: wall of text O;D
I guess that's beyond the scope of this update but any thoughts on "sector politics" and having to manage them thus? Frontier or "Outer Rim" sectors having loyalty issues, wanting more autonomy, things like that.
Interesting, the system supports it by modifiers etc.

Can we see a sector map in-game?
Looks like the old one.

Are those sectors Name and rename themself? Frontier sector Sounds nice now. Give it 100 years and it is deep inside your Empire.
The intend is that they should be able to upgrade/downgrade to the type they matches, very scriptable.

Any chance we can have a screenshot showing what the planets/sectors look like in the Outlier with 2.2, or is still work in progress? :)
Nah i have that in my TODO atm.

Do you mean that they build themselves if you tick a certain box or will they only build what you directly order them to build?
You tick a box that they autobuild (as long as you give it resources).

I'd love for the Feudal Empire civic to be revisited to take advantage of sectors effectively having de jure borders now. Say sector autonomy laws that range from tributary-esque - vassalage - semi-autonomous sectors - fully direct control?
Will not be de jure but almost the same, the galaxy is to dynamic both in generation and playerwise, so sectors is a bit more dynamic as well.

Is it possible to let sectors colonozize planets?TTo let them expand on their own with new space stations?
ATM sectors is pure build on planet, this might change in the future ofc.

Will it be open to modding how sectors are drawn?
Yes, we replaced the sector types as it is and the old ones are more like "sector behaviours" (triggers and some custom things for performance). I live for moddability O;D

So, if i will playing on my favorite x0.25 "habitable worlds" setting, should i expect having a lot of one-planet sectors because it is determined by star clusters geography?
Or maybe there will be some mechanic to unite sectors if they small?
We have talked about uniting, but it is far away... But on the other hand no sector should be 1 colony according to my design spec, it is just a POC showing off here.

Wouldn't it be simpler to let governors just use the empire's stockpile of resources, and then allow the player to set "Only allow use of THIS resource if we have more than THIS amount in reserve" settings for sectors?

Example:
You set this value for minerals to 500, energy to 900, and alloys to 520.
If your empire has 1500 minerals, 1020 energy and 600 alloys.
That means the sector governor is free to build any structure that costs less than 1000 minerals, 120 energy, and 80 alloys.

I.e. you do not have the complexity of multiple stockpiles, or resource conversion, or special handling of resources. It is all just your one stockpile, and limits that govern when those greedy governors can dip into the glorious empires treasury.
First react: NO. But yes we have also discussed a shared pool of resources for the sectors to grab from... nothing is written in stone.
But ATM we are gonna test out where the resources grinds down to some sector "mana" by some dynamic trnslation table and c how that plays out...

Just realised something that would be nice if it would be taken into account, a new sector should only be created if a certain number of systems are in it, you wouldn't want one of your outer colonies be a one system sector just because of its location.
Just wanne say it again, the sectors script(s) you have seen here is not according to design but for my own testing O;D

1. Will the sector AI be improved?
dunno, i seldome meddle in the AI, but it will be remade due to the changes to both the economics system and the new sectors.
2. Wil there be a possibility to set more than just one priorities to each sector? For example producing both research and unity?
I think so O;D

I might be missing something but it isn't 100% clear to me.

So sectors are essentially a cosmetic/UI feature to keep planets organised? And the player now has direct control over every planet?

What then is the advantage of assigning a Governor?
Pure modifier for a cost as far as i know.

but does the AI control then mean that you can't assign a Governor to the Core sector?
Nah you can assign a governor to whatever sector you want and you can toggle auto build on whatever sector you want without having a governor.

Here I am assuming that assigning a Governor is essentially giving the planets therein over to AI control, much like sectors exist now (regarding building and pop management at least).
Nah governor != AI O;)

How much control does the Governor AI have? Presumably they can't build construction ships or colonise internally anymore? Will a Governor be able to take instruction on how to spec a planet, or will they use internal logic to judge, or just build up to jack-of-all-trades planets?
Like before but just for the planet(s), you can give it hints but you do not have to have an AI building stuff if you do not want it.

Now that sector AI isn't required, giving up management of planets sounds like nothing but a disadvantageous move. No matter how well the AI judges, it still probably won't be 100% what the human player wanted or would have done. So what is the advantage besides the reduced micro, which itself already sounds much reduced?
Just to reduce the micro O;D

Will the right bar planet list reworked with the update? With possibly hundreds of planets and sectors no longer controlling majority of them that would become horrible mess to find the planets you want to manage more closely...
Yes, colonies will be expandable entries under sectors... Still WIP

A great set of changes, but in the (WIP) interface the science output figure is on top of the beaker icon and this makes it difficult to read. Is this an error (Icon is to big) or is this intentional as it would really impact on usability a lot?
The beaker is highly WIP as is the rest of the interface, just a GUI copy from the topbar. Uses the same resource scripting as there so highly moddable.

Are the controls for this pretty much staying the same as in the current version?
ie Economic focus, Allow building robots, Respect resources, etc etc
Something like that, options may ofc differ a bit regarding to the changes we have made.

Will we still be able to name sectors? And will the annoying forced use of the word "sector" at the end of each name in the sector menu finally be removed? If I name a sector "The Old Marches," for instance, it's obnoxious to see "The Old Marches Sector " in the sector menu. Thanks.
Lol, I added the extra of "Sector" just 1h before this screenshot and i felt it was awkward O;) will fix O;DD

Hmm, only being able to send minerals or energy sounds restrictive in light of the (Dev Diary #120) new resource system. Will this be mod-able? Or even better: Will this system allow us to send whatever resource we want in the finished version?
It will be 100% scriptable in so many ways O;)

Despite the highly WIP nature of the screenshot. I do have one feedback and I don't think I am alone in wanting this either.
I was looking at the sector. I just realized something. For pozuno sector, you can tell it has a mining space station energy income of 3 but is showned nowhere in the GUI. I might like a new row showing the raw mining space station yields.
Same Scenario for Hydax Sector. Hydax and Persei Prime uses -18 energy but sector is positive 4. Again with mineral -10 vs +1 income.
I think it would be useful in a large empire to not have to do multiple calculation to figure out what is happening to your energy in a sector.
Do not lay to much focus on that, it is a POC and nothing more...
In the screenshot the sector counts everything within its borders except non planitary upkeep and this is ofc higly scriptable (not sure how many times i have said that now lol) and just something i was playing around with.
Pay as much focus on that as the sorting filters in the top O;)

I do have a question that hasn't been answered by @Wiz yet: What happens when multiple empires occupy the same sector? Does each star simply operate as an independent district or does it create a kind of neutral zone? The latter could be an interesting twist to diplomacy.
They cannot, a sector will only be inside your borders. It might ofc aspire to be outside but what penalties you might get for that is unknown for me O;)

So that only took 2h lol
cheers guys and i hope you will enjoy this as much as i have had developing it!
//Guraan
 
Last edited:

John Rusher

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Will Militarist Faction still demand you to conquer planets each 10 years?
Can be sometimes impossible because of reasons, like when you conquered whole galaxy, or just don't have an opponent weak enough because of coalitions... or because Late Game Crisis came and you don't have time to deal with conquering new planets... or something like that happening.

So yeah, fix Militarist faction plox. Also impossible to get it over 57 when you are fanatic purifiers, unless you keep conquering everything... (because you cannot have rivals or vassals)

Compare it with any other faction that is easy to get over 60 without much effort.

I can best compare it with Xenophile faction which can easily get +30% permanent bonus to faction happiness, and even boost it to 100%. I see huge bias towards xenophiles here...
 
Last edited:

Beef Bucket

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Now that there is no hard limit on the number of leaders you can have, will there be a 'soft limit' of sorts that, when exceeded, raises the cost of maintenance? It seems a bit silly that the cost of maintaining your bureaucracy would even register in the budget of a government that also maintains a network of space stations but also it is a video game so... eh?
Also, will there be a negative trait that increases a leader's maintenance cost? Diva, perhaps? Plutocrat?
 

Zarpaulus

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What would be nice is some sort of pseudo election for democracies where maybe a new governor is conjured out of thin air and you can't replace them (except maybe through some events when they screw up or commit crimes). But as an authoritarian empire you get to appoint governors at will.
Maybe you start out appointing viceroys and a technology or tradition allows later governors to be elected or succeed their relatives?
 

hyme

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Leader cap is gone, leaders cost maintenance instead, with costs scaling to empire size.
Could they also be tied to Ruler pops?
 

Tavior

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Do not lay to much focus on that, it is a POC and nothing more...
In the screenshot the sector counts everything within its borders except non planitary upkeep and this is ofc higly scriptable (not sure how many times i have said that now lol) and just something i was playing around with.
Pay as much focus on that as the sorting filters in the top O;)

//Guraan

Proof of Concept is POC right? OK.

If you are trying to tease that there is a filter by output? That would not quite address my concern to make mining space station yield more visible but OK.

The issue I am having with this POC is that I am trying to see how much mining space station produce independently of planet's sources. If I had to stop and do some mental math for 2 or 3 sector. Not a big deal whatsoever. But if I am running more than lets' say 100 sector or more then I would have to take more than a few napkins out to work on my economy once in awhile. At which point it is no longer fun which is an issue. While having a sort may help a bit with finding sector that aren't performing well but will not assuage my concern.
 

Narva

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Will it be possible to assign planets designations - agri world, forge world, etc. - for the sector auto build AI to conform to?
 

Jabby

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Would it be possible to send a sector resources at a fixed monthly rate. And can you re add that sectors can keep their own resources but you can set taxes to 100% as well
 

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We have talked about uniting, but it is far away... But on the other hand no sector should be 1 colony according to my design spec, it is just a POC showing off here.

This is something worth talking about a bit more I think - a lot of clusters do only have one habitable planet. Rare, depending on settings to see more than a few in each. I appreciate that governors aren’t limited in 2.2 but still it would be in many cases not worth it (I expect) to assign a governor to a single planet cluster. In that situation it would be good to be able to maybe assign that single planet to an adjacent cluster.
 

Daunting

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I think it is obvious that I'm referring to the massive discrepancies between the sizes of those administrative units, as well as how some of its borders are drawn.
the size discrepancies are 100% based on geography, for example WA is so large because of how sparsely populated it is. with a population of 2.5 million(1.7 million of whom live in one city, Perth) it simply would not be geographically viable to break it into smaller units comparable to the size of the other states
 

cimoptigan

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Sector Rework
Sectors have always been a bit of a controversial feature. Even if you disregard arguments about the general level of competence of the sector AI, the fact that sectors effectively force the player to cede control over all but a few of their planets has never gone down well with certain players. In truth, the decision to force players to give planets to sectors was very much a result of the old tile system - because of the sheer amount of micromanagement that was involved in managing a large number of planets, it was decided that automation was necessary, and also to make that automation mandatory (barring mods) to effectively force players to not make themselves miserable by micromanaging the tiles of a hundred different worlds. With the planetary rework in the Le Guin update, we no longer feel that this mandatory automation is needed any longer, and so we've decided to rework the sector system entirely.

Instead of being autonomous mini-economies, sectors are now administrative units in your empire, with their layout decided by galactic geography, with each sector corresponding to a cluster of stars in the galaxy. Sectors are automatically created when you colonize a planet in a previously uncolonized cluster, and your 'core sector' is simply the cluster in which your capital is located. All interfaces that are relevant to sectors and planets (such as the outliner) are now organized by collapsible sector entries, allowing for better overview and management of a large number of planets. As before, each sector can have a governor assigned to it, but sectors now automatically send all of their production to the empire stockpile instead of having their own fully realized economy. However, since we still want players to be able to offload some of the planetary management when controlling a large number of worlds, it is still possible to allocate resources to a Governor, who will use those resources to develop the planets under their control. This of course means that there is no longer any core sector limit, and anything that previously used to give a bonus to core sector planets has either been changed into a different bonus or removed altogether.

Does this mean we won't be able to define our own sectors any more? That's a loss, I think. The sectors work well the way they are, but the functions can be expanded on, of course. Greater autonomy, barring certain species from settling in a sector, sector-specific edicts or policies, separate flags/emblems for different sectors... there are loads of stuff that could be added and that would make for a lot more dynamic and exciting empires!

Also, the federation the way it is now should be done away with. In defensive wars, my allies hardly ever come to my aid, and at some point in the game they all start requesting wars like crazy. All this does is put an unnecessary burden on the player empire, and allies' opinion of you starts degrading real fast when you don't want to join in their silly wars. Having allies is crucial, but the federation as it is now is useless. I'd love it if it rather was turned into a real political federation, with possible integration and union an option, common edicts and policies and joint graphics. United Federation of Planets, anyone?

Also, could the influence system be reworked? When both claims, edicts, gateways and megastructures keep costing immense amounts of influence, and I never seem able to get more than a 5/6 influence growth per month, it's nigh impossible to create a proper galaxy spanning empire.
 

John Rusher

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I hope you at least add more ways to please our factions, so that the Xenophile faction isn't the best faction because it is easiest to please.

Like :
"Military Edge" - For military faction you get bonus if you are ahead in military with your fellow empires (+5%) being behind gives a penalty. Does not include Fallen Empires etc.

Would be great for military because they are always getting the short end of the stick compared to basicaly everyone, aspecialy if you are fanatic purifier.
In fact factions are imbalanced, they should be done in such a way that if you can get to 100% with xenophile, then you should be able to get 100% with every faction - which is not true atm.

No wonder so many people say xenophile if game is skewed in their favour by the Xenophile faction getting 81% as a static bonus and 100% is achievable if you just keep uplifting aliens.

Not as if Xenophiles need any boost, because of how game works, they can get multitude of free pops, by exchanging pops with other xenophiles and building robots, AND they can create federation that can simply anihilate everyone in their path. Best pick if you want an easy game, aspecialy if war in heavens appears - then if you are strong enough your whole galaxy will be in your federation, except Fanatic Purgers and Isolationists. At which point, even Fallen empires are not a threat, and most likely even the crisis will be a cakewalk.

If you also combine it with robotic ascension, you can turn your main pops to robots so they can colonize all planets - your other pops can be turned to cyborgs. Or you can get bio-ascension.

So yes, game is imbalanced when it comes to factions ;)
 

Latheloi

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Haven't seen this elsewhere in the thread, and don't remember it being mentioned previously (apologies if so) - but how are pop ethics and faction membership being tracked on any given planet in the brave new post tiles world?
 

laptor

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[...] Instead of being autonomous mini-economies, sectors are now administrative units in your empire, with their layout decided by galactic geography, with each sector corresponding to a cluster of stars in the galaxy. Sectors are automatically created when you colonize a planet in a previously uncolonized cluster, and your 'core sector' is simply the cluster in which your capital is located. [...]
Hopefully that will not feel too "restrictively"
 

Kayden_II

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We're also hoping to have time to review the faction issues, tying them more directly to policies to make them easier to understand.
Something else comes in my mind, why this could be a good idea since currently, it's the case, that a certain empire-ethic simply forbids a certain empire-policy ...
(For example, a pacifistic / militaristic empire is simply forbidden to use unrestricted / defensive wars) ...
So, instead to lock out a certain empire-policy, (due to a certain empire-ethic), such an empire-policy could (really) piss off a certain (fanatic) faction, (because such a (fanatic) faction is based on a certain (fanatic) ethic).
 
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