Stellaris Dev Diary #126 - Sectors and Factions in 2.2

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Wizzington

Game Director (Victoria 3)
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Hello everyone and welcome to another Stellaris development diary. Today we're going to continue talking about the 2.2 'Le Guin' update, on the topic of Sectors and Factions. As said before, we're not yet ready to reveal anything about when Le Guin is coming out, only that it's a long time away and we have many more topics to cover before then. Also as said before, screenshots will contain placeholder art and interfaces and non-final numbers.

Sector Rework
Sectors have always been a bit of a controversial feature. Even if you disregard arguments about the general level of competence of the sector AI, the fact that sectors effectively force the player to cede control over all but a few of their planets has never gone down well with certain players. In truth, the decision to force players to give planets to sectors was very much a result of the old tile system - because of the sheer amount of micromanagement that was involved in managing a large number of planets, it was decided that automation was necessary, and also to make that automation mandatory (barring mods) to effectively force players to not make themselves miserable by micromanaging the tiles of a hundred different worlds. With the planetary rework in the Le Guin update, we no longer feel that this mandatory automation is needed any longer, and so we've decided to rework the sector system entirely.

Instead of being autonomous mini-economies, sectors are now administrative units in your empire, with their layout decided by galactic geography, with each sector corresponding to a cluster of stars in the galaxy. Sectors are automatically created when you colonize a planet in a previously uncolonized cluster, and your 'core sector' is simply the cluster in which your capital is located. All interfaces that are relevant to sectors and planets (such as the outliner) are now organized by collapsible sector entries, allowing for better overview and management of a large number of planets. As before, each sector can have a governor assigned to it, but sectors now automatically send all of their production to the empire stockpile instead of having their own fully realized economy. However, since we still want players to be able to offload some of the planetary management when controlling a large number of worlds, it is still possible to allocate resources to a Governor, who will use those resources to develop the planets under their control. This of course means that there is no longer any core sector limit, and anything that previously used to give a bonus to core sector planets has either been changed into a different bonus or removed altogether.

EDIT: Since there's a lot of questions about leader capacity, please read down a bit further in the thread where I address this issue. Thank you!

(Note: Image is highly WIP and has missing elements)
2018_09_20_2.png

Faction Happiness Rework
Factions are also changing in Le Guin, though not to nearly the same degree as sectors. Most of the core mechanics of factions will remain the same, but Faction Happiness is being changed into something we call Faction Approval, measuring how much a Faction approves of your empire's policies. Where previously Factions would only give influence when above a 60% happiness threshold, Factions now always give some influence, with the amount scaling linearly to their Approval, so a 10% Approval faction will give only 1/10th of the influence that a 100% Approval faction gives you (the amount they give also still scales to their share of power in your empire). Faction Approval is also no longer directly applied to Pop Happiness, but rather will affect the happiness of Pops belonging to that faction at different thresholds, with small boosts to happiness at higher levels of approval and increasingly severe penalties to happiness at low levels of approval (effectively swapping the influence threshold for various happiness thresholds).

This should mean that even small boosts to faction approval now directly translates into influence gain, and that factions almost always give *some* benefit, even if that benefit may be outweighed by the unhappiness and unrest they can cause. We're also hoping to have time to review the faction issues, tying them more directly to policies to make them easier to understand. For example, instead of demanding that all species have their rights manually set to Full Citizenship, the Xenophile faction might demand a certain empire-wide policy setting that forces the equal application of species rights across all species.
2018_09_20_1.png


That's all for today! Next week we're continuing to talk about the Le Guin update, on the topic of Trade Value and Trade Routes.
 
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This sector update sounds amazing. Will there be a change in leader cap to tie in with the increased amount of sectors that would need governance or no?

Leader cap is gone, leaders cost maintenance instead, with costs scaling to empire size.
 
Will there be a 'de jure sectors' mapmode? Also, now that sectors will be more stable political entities rather than something you can redraw/abolish at whim, are there plans for the future to make them act more like vassals in CK2 (in the sense of the local government having it's own interests it might pursue/local fleets/etc.)?

I definitely think we could do a lot more with sectors now that they have borders the players can't redraw at whim, but no concrete plans at the moment.
 
Allocating resources to sectors means one-time sending of energy/minerals or regular percentage which is deduced every month from sector's income?

You send a lump sum of energy or minerals which is converted into 'sector budget', from which the governor can build, with special scripted costs. We haven't figured out yet how we're going to solve special costs like rare resources. It's also possible that governors might get a small budget each month based on economic strength of sector even if you don't send them resources.
 
Great dev diary, one question though.

How much autonomy do the new sectors have in terms of building districts and buildings?

Sectors will only build if you allow them to.
 
The sector rework seems amazing!

The faction one is also very interesting, but will it be possible to mod other resources it can give instead of just influence? Or just put a modifier (like pop_resource_output = 0.2 or whatever) and have it scale based on the faction's approval, instead of having to rely on event and modifiers?


Does that mean that leaders cost more when you have a big empire (since big empires should have more resources), or that they cost less (since you need more of them)?

Empire size increases leader cost.
 
I definitely think we could do a lot more with sectors now that they have borders the players can't redraw at whim, but no concrete plans at the moment.

I'd love for the Feudal Empire civic to be revisited to take advantage of sectors effectively having de jure borders now. Say sector autonomy laws that range from tributary-esque - vassalage - semi-autonomous sectors - fully direct control?
 
Would we see a return of sector independence movements now that clusters are more defined geo-politically? (Stellar-politically?)

It would be a possibility again now, though there are no concrete plans for it in this version. Properly autonomous sector governors until Feudal Realm etc is also something that's possible with the new system.
 
Will the eager perk (the one that gives you a cost reduction) become a upkeep redection so it will remain a good perk to have even in the late game.

Yep! Leader cost also scales with empire size, so in general it's a lot more useful now.
 
"It's also possible that governors might get a small budget each month based on economic strength of sector even if you don't send them resources."

It will be kind of weird if sector governors get their budget from nowhere.:eek:

It wouldn't be 'from nowhere', more like local taxes. Your empire stockpile does not represent all economic activity in your empire, as next dev diary should make clear.

For example, one idea I have for the Feudal Realm civic (but I'm not promising there will be time for) is to have governors be way more autonomous, but have a fairly large income of their own.
 
A great set of changes, but in the (WIP) interface the science output figure is on top of the beaker icon and this makes it difficult to read. Is this an error (Icon is to big) or is this intentional as it would really impact on usability a lot?

You read the disclaimer saying it was WIP and unfinished, so I honestly don't know why you're even asking this.
 
I often wonder why Wiz is so hostile to receiving constructive criticism on these forums...

I can think of a couple of interface issues off hand which have been slow to be improved. E.g. lack of fleet manager for almost 2 years after release, still lack of shift-clicking to add ships to construction queues or to fleet templates, no ability to save templates or save designs, etc.

When I explicitly put a disclaimer saying that an interface is WIP, pointing out that some parts of it look weird is akin to saying that there are sketch lines on an early sketch of an unfinished painting - WIP interfaces will *always* have weird-looking things and criticism at that stage is completely useless. You're more than welcome to give feedback on actual finished interfaces, but the WIP disclaimer is there for a reason, and I'd like to keep being able to show WIP screenshots without detail discussion on placeholder art and numbers taking over the conversation.

Or to put it another way, 'this steak is undercooked' isn't very constructive criticism when you haven't even started the grill yet. :p
 
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Can one now check faciton approval via a trigger?
 
I have to admit, I am a bit surprised that a pops political power doesn't affect how much influence it gives a faction, so that in a stratified empire the opinions of the upper class matter more for factions just as they do for stability.

Unless it does and you didn't mention it.

It does.
 
Yes...
Hi there!
For those who do not know me, i am a programmer on stellaris and _not_ a game designer.
Gonna do as i did for the new economics, but for sectors (hope it will help), and talk about the stuff i know lol.
Now: wall of text O;D
I guess that's beyond the scope of this update but any thoughts on "sector politics" and having to manage them thus? Frontier or "Outer Rim" sectors having loyalty issues, wanting more autonomy, things like that.
Interesting, the system supports it by modifiers etc.

Can we see a sector map in-game?
Looks like the old one.

Are those sectors Name and rename themself? Frontier sector Sounds nice now. Give it 100 years and it is deep inside your Empire.
The intend is that they should be able to upgrade/downgrade to the type they matches, very scriptable.

Any chance we can have a screenshot showing what the planets/sectors look like in the Outlier with 2.2, or is still work in progress? :)
Nah i have that in my TODO atm.

Do you mean that they build themselves if you tick a certain box or will they only build what you directly order them to build?
You tick a box that they autobuild (as long as you give it resources).

I'd love for the Feudal Empire civic to be revisited to take advantage of sectors effectively having de jure borders now. Say sector autonomy laws that range from tributary-esque - vassalage - semi-autonomous sectors - fully direct control?
Will not be de jure but almost the same, the galaxy is to dynamic both in generation and playerwise, so sectors is a bit more dynamic as well.

Is it possible to let sectors colonozize planets?TTo let them expand on their own with new space stations?
ATM sectors is pure build on planet, this might change in the future ofc.

Will it be open to modding how sectors are drawn?
Yes, we replaced the sector types as it is and the old ones are more like "sector behaviours" (triggers and some custom things for performance). I live for moddability O;D

So, if i will playing on my favorite x0.25 "habitable worlds" setting, should i expect having a lot of one-planet sectors because it is determined by star clusters geography?
Or maybe there will be some mechanic to unite sectors if they small?
We have talked about uniting, but it is far away... But on the other hand no sector should be 1 colony according to my design spec, it is just a POC showing off here.

Wouldn't it be simpler to let governors just use the empire's stockpile of resources, and then allow the player to set "Only allow use of THIS resource if we have more than THIS amount in reserve" settings for sectors?

Example:
You set this value for minerals to 500, energy to 900, and alloys to 520.
If your empire has 1500 minerals, 1020 energy and 600 alloys.
That means the sector governor is free to build any structure that costs less than 1000 minerals, 120 energy, and 80 alloys.

I.e. you do not have the complexity of multiple stockpiles, or resource conversion, or special handling of resources. It is all just your one stockpile, and limits that govern when those greedy governors can dip into the glorious empires treasury.
First react: NO. But yes we have also discussed a shared pool of resources for the sectors to grab from... nothing is written in stone.
But ATM we are gonna test out where the resources grinds down to some sector "mana" by some dynamic trnslation table and c how that plays out...

Just realised something that would be nice if it would be taken into account, a new sector should only be created if a certain number of systems are in it, you wouldn't want one of your outer colonies be a one system sector just because of its location.
Just wanne say it again, the sectors script(s) you have seen here is not according to design but for my own testing O;D

1. Will the sector AI be improved?
dunno, i seldome meddle in the AI, but it will be remade due to the changes to both the economics system and the new sectors.
2. Wil there be a possibility to set more than just one priorities to each sector? For example producing both research and unity?
I think so O;D

I might be missing something but it isn't 100% clear to me.

So sectors are essentially a cosmetic/UI feature to keep planets organised? And the player now has direct control over every planet?

What then is the advantage of assigning a Governor?
Pure modifier for a cost as far as i know.

but does the AI control then mean that you can't assign a Governor to the Core sector?
Nah you can assign a governor to whatever sector you want and you can toggle auto build on whatever sector you want without having a governor.

Here I am assuming that assigning a Governor is essentially giving the planets therein over to AI control, much like sectors exist now (regarding building and pop management at least).
Nah governor != AI O;)

How much control does the Governor AI have? Presumably they can't build construction ships or colonise internally anymore? Will a Governor be able to take instruction on how to spec a planet, or will they use internal logic to judge, or just build up to jack-of-all-trades planets?
Like before but just for the planet(s), you can give it hints but you do not have to have an AI building stuff if you do not want it.

Now that sector AI isn't required, giving up management of planets sounds like nothing but a disadvantageous move. No matter how well the AI judges, it still probably won't be 100% what the human player wanted or would have done. So what is the advantage besides the reduced micro, which itself already sounds much reduced?
Just to reduce the micro O;D

Will the right bar planet list reworked with the update? With possibly hundreds of planets and sectors no longer controlling majority of them that would become horrible mess to find the planets you want to manage more closely...
Yes, colonies will be expandable entries under sectors... Still WIP

A great set of changes, but in the (WIP) interface the science output figure is on top of the beaker icon and this makes it difficult to read. Is this an error (Icon is to big) or is this intentional as it would really impact on usability a lot?
The beaker is highly WIP as is the rest of the interface, just a GUI copy from the topbar. Uses the same resource scripting as there so highly moddable.

Are the controls for this pretty much staying the same as in the current version?
ie Economic focus, Allow building robots, Respect resources, etc etc
Something like that, options may ofc differ a bit regarding to the changes we have made.

Will we still be able to name sectors? And will the annoying forced use of the word "sector" at the end of each name in the sector menu finally be removed? If I name a sector "The Old Marches," for instance, it's obnoxious to see "The Old Marches Sector " in the sector menu. Thanks.
Lol, I added the extra of "Sector" just 1h before this screenshot and i felt it was awkward O;) will fix O;DD

Hmm, only being able to send minerals or energy sounds restrictive in light of the (Dev Diary #120) new resource system. Will this be mod-able? Or even better: Will this system allow us to send whatever resource we want in the finished version?
It will be 100% scriptable in so many ways O;)

Despite the highly WIP nature of the screenshot. I do have one feedback and I don't think I am alone in wanting this either.
I was looking at the sector. I just realized something. For pozuno sector, you can tell it has a mining space station energy income of 3 but is showned nowhere in the GUI. I might like a new row showing the raw mining space station yields.
Same Scenario for Hydax Sector. Hydax and Persei Prime uses -18 energy but sector is positive 4. Again with mineral -10 vs +1 income.
I think it would be useful in a large empire to not have to do multiple calculation to figure out what is happening to your energy in a sector.
Do not lay to much focus on that, it is a POC and nothing more...
In the screenshot the sector counts everything within its borders except non planitary upkeep and this is ofc higly scriptable (not sure how many times i have said that now lol) and just something i was playing around with.
Pay as much focus on that as the sorting filters in the top O;)

I do have a question that hasn't been answered by @Wiz yet: What happens when multiple empires occupy the same sector? Does each star simply operate as an independent district or does it create a kind of neutral zone? The latter could be an interesting twist to diplomacy.
They cannot, a sector will only be inside your borders. It might ofc aspire to be outside but what penalties you might get for that is unknown for me O;)

So that only took 2h lol
cheers guys and i hope you will enjoy this as much as i have had developing it!
//Guraan
 
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With the planetary/sector rework are there going to be "sector capital worlds" similar to the empire capital worlds, which serve as the center of government for a sector and allow for the construction of sector unique buildings which provide buffs to the entire sector. This could also allow for governors or members of other leader grounds to become physical entities on the planets, such as sector capitals having governor job positions, chief scientists existing within a research lab or ministry on the home world, ability to recruit/assign more scientists/generals/admirals/governors to different worlds for different buffs or to investigate special projects, or the existence of cabinet positions within the government similar to advisors from HOI4.
Yes a sector will still have a capital world, cannot answer how much impact that will be O;)
This also creates more risk if a planet is invaded and you can't evacuate leaders in time, leaders could be killed in fighting (collateral damage dependent), be captured and imprisoned/executed by the invaders, or turn their coat and join the invaders, giving them a free ruler and potentially mitigating unrest on the conquered world due to continuity of leadership (ethos dependent, an authoritarian ruler might permit a Quisling type to rule a conquered world but an egalitarian empire might try an authoritarian ruler for the crimes they've committed).
Right now we had to drop that logic, it is only fleet/ship leaders that can be killed by "user neglection"... yes i know, we are are working on it, it was so many bugs in the old relocation system that it was not worth it.

I don't like the system that a leader should cost maintenance of resources to be able to produce resources. Maybe they should be payed with attention, which is influence. The degree of payment should be change able: a leader, that is not payed well will produce less in his sector and maybe get ideas of his own independent empire, depending on his personality.
Nah, do not not think that any leaders in a unmodded game will have both a production and a upkeep, you can ofc do it but just as you say it sounds weird... and sure we (or any modder) could add modifiers to replicate the thing you say, but then you have numbers depending on numbers and the game gets very hard to play.

If you're interested in doing another post... What is the difference between a Frontier and Core sector as currently built? Do they get certain bonuses or function in different ways? Or is it purely cosmetic?

(I agree with the other poster, would be very exciting to see that used to build out regional personality and politics in future updates or DLC.)
In current build nothing, core is scripted to need the capital planet to exist and frontier is not, nothing more O;)
 
So what, governor production bonus is gone?
Sorry i misunderstood, no thats a modifier that the governor will give the planets in its sector and as far as i know we will keep these since that i more or less a key feature of the governors O;)
What i thought you meant was that the leader it self actually generates resources just as it costs in upkeep, and yes this is possible with the new economics system.

In regards to the outliner, could we get a "favorites" virtual sector (visual only)?
Because usually there's only a handful of planets that needs my full attention, and it'd be nice to have a list of those planets at a glance so I can see when they get funky icons on them.
Or perhaps better, a virtual sector that shows you the planets that are actively trying to tell you something.
Either way, my goal here is to have a place where I can at a glance check whether there's something I should pay attention to.
I love the idea! tbh i will make it so O;) Just a "favorite" toggle in the planet view.

Also, I'm kinda hoping that leader cost will not always be 100% connected to empire size.

Sector leaders - Calculate the empire size of the sector and use that as a multiplier for leader cost. And a tiny extra cost for total empire size. Just so we can simulate that the "bureaucracy needs to expand to fill the needs of the bureaucracy."
hmmm this should be fairly easy to implement if it is not possible right now thru different triggered modifiers tbh,
for example: a governor could easily get a upkeep modifier from its sector depending on size or type.
 
@Guraan
Hi. Will we have an option to add/remove planets from sector's geographical space via modding?
For the initial release i do not know, but it is in my backlog so it will be at least be added in the future to have static scriptable sectors and add/remove systems