Stellaris Dev Diary #108 - 2.0 Post-Release Support (part 1)

[makaramus]

I feel that this solution still has the issue of end-game wars mopping up weaker empires taking several long, drawn out wars to conquer completely, and having forced peaces at 2% off achieving wargoals, which always feels very unfair and arbitrary.

I would suggest instead that you keep the penalty system of the previous patch, but make the penalties MUCH harsher. Start with the existing penalties, but also add in that you cannot build new military ships or armies at 100% exhaustion, then add for example a yearly happiness decrease empire wide, as well as mineral/energy credit penalties that increase over time. Possibly also random events of ships and armies deserting that increase in frequency and severity as time drags on, representing deserting and maintenance being stretched thin maintaining the war effort.

Basically, make it so that your not FORCED to make peace per se, but if you try drag it out too long your empire will break from the strain of maintaining the war effort before the enemy does. Basically, make the forced peace a soft forced peace instead. Your not forced to, but it reaches a point where its the only viable option.

I think that this solution would also be great RP and general atmosphere wise, as it would make neck-and-neck wars feel like the epic desperate struggles where you are going all in to win as they were always meant to be, and allowing defending empires losing wars to mount the epic, tooth and nail, not-one-step-back struggles to defend their homelands.

ok
lets make it crippling shall we
AND THEN WHAT WILL HAPPEN TO LOSING SIDE WHEN THEY WANT TO MAKE PEACE? I cannot make peace but war exhaustion simply crippling me because my ENEMY desire for war
Read what wiz wrote...

 

[Fortune_Silver]

ok
lets make it crippling shall we
AND THEN WHAT WILL HAPPEN TO LOSING SIDE WHEN THEY WANT TO MAKE PEACE? I cannot make peace but war exhaustion simply crippling me because my ENEMY desire for war
Read what wiz wrote...

You could make war exhaustion seperate from "victory progress", and have the penalties apply equally to both sides so that long or short and especially bloody wars tire both sides equally quickly. War exhaustion becomes a war duration soft limiter, while victory progress acts like war exhaustion currently does.

No need to get snappy, im just throwing out ideas here.

 

[makaramus]

You could make war exhaustion seperate from "victory progress", and have the penalties apply equally to both sides so that long or short and bloody wars tire both sides equally quickly. War exhaustion becomes a war duration soft limiter, while victory progress acts like war exhaustion currently does.

No need to get snappy, im just throwing out ideas here.

what will happen when attacker want to peace out but defender say "do you know what... I refuse. Just to make you crippled and make others desire to war with you. I gonna pull you to hell with me! you gonna %100 occupy me or YOU will surrender to me "
ok lets keep this up

 

[Phoenix32]

sorry grammar Nazi I didn't get the education you did and I don't think it would kill the game to leave it the way it was and only change it for those who got the new expansion then those that wanted something new can get it those of us who wanted it the way it was could of had that 2 telling me its simple to do is fine as I have said I'm no good with computers and every time I have tried to use a mod or a modded game there is issues with stability and sometimes even loosening saved game files as they become corrupted thanks for teasing my grammar much appreciated

I learned English from TV and gaming, not from education. I'm not teasing your grammar, I'm saying you should learn to use punctuation or people wont take you as seriously. Try putting a dot (.) whenever you would normally pause or take a breath when you speak, that's a start.

The way paradox games work is that alot of the changes are in patches, and some are in the DLC. This is because paradox games have ALOT of DLCs and everyone might not own the same DLCs, yet they need to work together.

Mods on steam are easier to use and generally more stable than if you try to do it yourself. If you don't want to because it might be buggy I can understand that though.

Rerolling your version through the guide in the stickied post is super easy though and will take you 5 minute tops even if you are completely computer illiterate.

 

[Fortune_Silver]

what will happen when attacker want to peace out but defender say "do you know what... I refuse. Just to make you crippled and make others desire to war with you. I gonna pull you to hell with me! you gonna %100 occupy me or YOU will surrender to me "
ok lets keep this up

My main problem in the game thus far has not been getting fucked over by AI decimating me in single wars, so much as it is that once you hit the post-crisis endgame conquering weaker yet large nations becomes a slow, tedius slog limited by arbitrary truce timers that dont even make sense sometimes (swarms, exterminators, purifiers etc)

Another option would be to make the penalties apply to the WINNING side, so that if you have the upper hand and the resources to spare you could push the offensive and eat the penalty, but if you push too hard the penalties open you up for a counter-offensive.

 

[Phoenix32]

ive already told you issues with stability of the game corrupted files and continues crashes so don't and wont ever use mods again if you cant understand that just leave me alone as I'm really getting sick of saying the same thing over and over to you

You basically had a few buses break down when you tried to ried to town in Uzbekistan and now you refuse to use public transport in Tokyo and complain that you gotta walk instead.

People propose you call a cab but you don't want to because you don't know how to make a phonecall.

We tell you there is a simple guide to calling the cab right next to you, but you refuse to and instead ask Japan to pay you back fpr the ticket and hotelroom, an hotelroom you already stayed in for 5 months.

 

[makaramus]

My main problem in the game thus far has not been getting fucked over by AI decimating me in single wars, so much as it is that once you hit the post-crisis endgame conquering weaker yet large nations becomes a slow, tedius slog limited by arbitrary truce timers that dont even make sense sometimes (swarms, exterminators, purifiers etc)

Another option would be to make the penalties apply to the WINNING side, so that if you have the upper hand and the resources to spare you could push the offensive and eat the penalty, but if you push too hard the penalties open you up for a counter-offensive.

what? what do you mean by getting fucked over by AI?

 

[Fortune_Silver]

what? what do you mean by getting fucked over by AI?

Disclaimer here, I play singleplayer only, no multiplayer thus far. What I mean is that i have never had an issue during the last beta with AI empires keeping me in perpetual 100% exhaustion, they usually accept surrender. I understand that human players could be dicks in multiplayer, but the last idea about shifting penalties to the winning side would help balance that, no point pushing a war for minor gains if its going to gut your economy for potentially decades.

 

[baldrs]

Have no idea if you've been playing Beta, but the bugs it has in the release version have been fixed. It's beautiful now. You'll love it and if you still don't then you just need to learn how to use it properly.

I'm currently facing(latest beta) the same issues I've had before, for example I've got 4/5 Battleships in template and 20k minterals, can't reinforce(naval capacity is available)
Fleets have to be upgraded before reinforcing(nonsense IMO) otherwise it'd lead to bugs(I've got incorrect amount of ships if I reinforce before upgrade, in particular when there are corvettes like 20/0 in the fleet, in result I can get 40/20 corvettes.)
Still can't add titan that is already part of the fleet to the template
Total naval capacity is incremented in 1 instead +2 for each destroyer, +4 for each cruiser, +8 for each battleship, and +16 for titan, giving incorrect estimate of used naval capacity
Mineral count for reinforcement of all fleets still shows nonsense, like 13 ships have to be reinforced for [cost of 1 battleship] and then reinforced for completely different value of minerals.

 

[James Fire]

ive already told you issues with stability of the game corrupted files and continues crashes so don't and wont ever use mods again if you cant understand that just leave me alone as I'm really getting sick of saying the same thing over and over to you

Have you tried any Stellaris mods?

 

[AlanC9]

Honestly, this is getting a bit ri

ok
lets make it crippling shall we
AND THEN WHAT WILL HAPPEN TO LOSING SIDE WHEN THEY WANT TO MAKE PEACE? I cannot make peace but war exhaustion simply crippling me because my ENEMY desire for war
Read what wiz wrote...

Well, in a non-Total War you could just surrender, right?

 

[James Fire]

Honestly, this is getting a bit ri



Well, in a non-Total War you could just surrender, right?

And then you lose half your empire and can't come back from it because you keep getting beat on.

 

[AlanC9]

Fleets have to be upgraded before reinforcing(nonsense IMO) otherwise it'd lead to bugs

Huh? I can do this just fine. I've got both old and new corvette designs in my fleet right now.

 

[Defiler99]

Huh? I can do this just fine. I've got both old and new corvette designs in my fleet right now.

There's some indication that having the designs auto-upgrade during a reinforcement is the cause of the "un-removable ghost ships in the fleet manager build queue" bug (that crashes to desktop when you try to delete the fleet from the manager).

Hopefully this is the last build we have to deal with that in.

Example bug thread: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...nforcements-block-getting-full-fleet.1080520/

 

[AlanC9]

And then you lose half your empire and can't come back from it because you keep getting beat on.

Sure, but losing a war should suck.

More seriously, I take it that you're looking for a WE penalty which would cripple a clearly victorious enemy enough to stop them from occupying all the stuff they could otherwise occupy. We're talking about a case where victory is already impossible for the losing side, right? The question is just how bad the cost is going to be.

 

[AlanC9]

There's some indication that having the designs auto-upgrade during a reinforcement is the cause of the "un-removable ghost ships in the fleet manager build queue" bug (that crashes to desktop when you try to delete the fleet from the manager).

Hopefully this is the last build we have to deal with that in.

Example bug thread: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...nforcements-block-getting-full-fleet.1080520/

Ah, that makes sense. I never use auto-designs, so I'd never see it.

 

[makaramus]

Honestly, this is getting a bit ri



Well, in a non-Total War you could just surrender, right?

and give up terrority they unable to take? Protected by my massive 40 k defended star system while their army is 20 k?
no... I will not do that O_O that was terrible excuse

 

[James Fire]

Sure, but losing a war should suck.

More seriously, I take it that you're looking for a WE penalty which would cripple a clearly victorious enemy enough to stop them from occupying all the stuff they could otherwise occupy. We're talking about a case where victory is already impossible for the losing side, right? The question is just how bad the cost is going to be.

But it's not fun. And besides, it could then be cheesed by a good enough player.

 

[AlanC9]

Wait... losing is supposed to be fun?

I'm not sure what you want here.

 

[makaramus]

Wait... losing is supposed to be fun?

I'm not sure what you want here.

yes its supposed to be? Losing is part of this game too! And you should be able to have fun while losing!