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Stellaris Dev Diary #101 - Marauders, Pirates and the Horde

Hello everyone and welcome to another Stellaris development diary. Today, we continue talking about the Apocalypse expansion and 2.0 'Cherryh' update, on the topic of Marauders and Pirates.

Marauders (Apocalypse Feature)
Marauders are a new type of non-playable empire that those with the Apocalypse expansion can encounter in the galaxy. They are essentially nomadic FTL societies that have eschewed planetary living in favor of living on ships and stations in and around a handful of resource-rich systems, subsisting largely on raiding each other and extorting tribute from settled empires. Being born spacefarers, they are hardy warriors and expert ship crew, able to muster impressive fleets despite their relative lack of technology compared to other older civilizations (such as Fallen Empires). Marauders are always hostile to regular empires, but will generally not attack them unless you attempt to enter their home systems, or they are in the process of raiding them.
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Marauders will occasionally set out to raid settled empires they have established contact with. Before raiding, they will offer said empire a chance to pay them off with a hefty tribute of minerals, energy or food. If you refuse, they will send a fleet to that empire's territory, pillaging stations and raiding planets for slaves, stopping only when they are either destroyed or satisfied with the amount of booty they have amassed. While in the process of raiding, they can still be bought off with tribute, but the price will be raised significantly from if you just agreed to pay them off from the start. Settled empires can pay a Marauder empire to conduct a raid on one of their rivals, both diverting their attention from yourself and potentially weakening that rival's military and economy. A Marauder empire can be wiped out by destroying all stations and ships in their home systems, but these systems are well defended and will take a powerful mid to late game navy to deal with.
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Settled empires can also enlist the aid of Marauders as mercenaries. At the start of the game, it is possible to hire them as Generals or Admirals with a high starting skill and special traits, and after a certain amount of time has passed, the option to hire their fleets will also be unlocked. Marauder fleets cost a large energy payment up-front, and consist of a fixed-size fleet that cannot be split, merged or disbanded, with a leader that cannot be reassigned. The fleet does not count towards your naval cap and will not cost any maintenance, but will only serve you for a period of 5 years, after which you will have to renew their contract by paying the full cost again.
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Horde Mid-Game Crisis (Apocalypse Feature)
Also new in the Apocalypse expansion is something we're calling the Horde Mid-Game Crisis. This is an event chain that can trigger after the first 100 years of the game, where one of the Marauder empires unifies under a Great Khan. Once this happens, the Marauder empire becomes a Horde, and will begin expanding in all directions, claiming empty systems and sending fleets to destroy the Starbases of any empire that will not submit to the Khan. At any time, it possible for a regular empire to submit to the Khan and become a Satrapy, a type of subject that has to pay part of its income and naval capacity in tribute to the Khan, but is otherwise left to its own devices. The Horde will grow stronger for every system it conquers and Satrapy it acquires, but it is a fragile construct, held together only by the personality of the Khan. If the Great Khan is killed in battle, or falls victim to disease or assassination, the Horde will collapse, at which point one of several things will happen to the Horde and its Satrapies: It may dissolve into a myriad of squabbling successor states, or a new, democratic Federation may form out of its ashes. Regardless, the appearance of the Khan and the Horde is sure to shake up the galactic scene of any game in which it makes an appearance.
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Pirate Rework (Cherryh Feature)
Finally, though not directly related to Marauders, we wanted to mention that we have made some changes to pirates in the 2.0 'Cherryh' update. Back in the dev diary about Starbases, we talked about discouraging 'snaking' and leaving empty systems inside your borders by adjusting the influence costs. This turned out not to work so well in testing for a variety of reasons, and so we decided on a different solution, by expanding on the concept of pirates. Now, once the Birth of Space Piracy event has fired, Pirates will be able to spawn in empty systems bordering your empire. These pirates will attack your systems and pillage your stations until they are destroyed, and will grow stronger and more numerous over the course of the game. They are especially likely to spawn in systems that are fully surrounded by your borders, making any empty systems in the middle of your empire into potential hotbeds of trouble that you are likely going to want to take control of sooner or later. As part of these changes, we have removed most of the static pirate spawns in the galaxy, leaving only their home system with the Pirate Galleon.
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That's all for today! Next week we'll continue talking about Cherryh and the Apocalypse expansion, on the topic of Edicts and Unity Ambitions.
 

Spaceman78

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I just had an idea to make necessary resources viable. The trader enclaves could broker auctions for your extra resources when they become available. This might lead to some things you don't like, like your rival getting shields. But it might make necessary resources more viable. You could check with different enclaves to see when what resources were coming up for auction. I think this would be a viable simulation of a galactic economy. Not to mention if someone were brokering a large amount of strategic resources and you wanted to stop it you can always blow up the enclave. Maybe even you can exclude empires from the bidding when you put the resource up. Refusing to entertain someone s bid could even lead to war. Enclaves could even develop malice for selling to an empires rivals and the different enclaves could cater to different trading blocks eventually.

How about I top you on this one. Instead of trader enclaves, why not something like smugglers?

Often when we meet a challenge, we brute force our way out of it (military).

how about another party which we have the dilemma, that if we destroy it then we destroy our (illegal) access to resources. However if we do not destroy it, then they become stronger and become a threat. Or they are a threat because they decrease your strategic resource by smuggling them out. Or alternatively we may even want to protect and improve relations with them, because others may want to destroy them. Smugglers may even become the shadow party that destabilize empires (even yours), buy creating unrest, access to secret information etc.

Hope you can understand the dilemma here.

With smugglers being linked to the marauders, you have an dilemma that is even greater. Due to the Khan mechanics, the marauders are no longer simply a threat to be eliminated.

Perhaps Khan is The Kingpin of Stellaris underworld.

You might even have different Stellaris underworld elements (expansion pending); the Mercenaries (Marauders), the Smugglers, The Slavers, The Malcontents (Rebels), The Information brokers etc.
But I am going into a tangient here, while we were talking about strategic resources.

Conflict of interest makes the game fun.
 
Last edited:

Jomitra

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The new great khan crisis should be a fun one to deal with
 

Devanor

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Xephos Demonslayer

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Now I want a voidborn start with a nerfed/weakened Habitat.

I would love to be able to set up a habitat only challenge without having to cheat to unlock the tech.
 

Rasma

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I have to say I love the idea of space borne races, I hope that at some point that becomes an option for players to be migratory fleets, and having to deal with the tightening grip of empires as they grow.
 

Tim_Ward

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Devanor

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Baller Larva

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Well, I like the mechanics of the Marauders, but do they have to be so on the nose ''space Mongols''? I think it's unnecessary for them to so obviously resemble the human Mongol Empire, they're supposed to be aliens right?
 

zdesert

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Well, I like the mechanics of the Marauders, but do they have to be so on the nose ''space Mongols''? I think it's unnecessary for them to so obviously resemble the human Mongol Empire, they're supposed to be aliens right?

sure... but how would you differentiate them? you could use a word other than khan i suppose but whatever jibberish word you chose would mean the same thing and as the same time be harder for players to uderstand.

i mean if a buch of sperate SPOONIE fleets grouped up into a mighty FLIM FLAM under the leadership of an unstoppable psychic FLUBATTER.... sure it dosnt feel like space mongols anymore but it also dosnt really mean anything anymore. you are still effectively saying that a bunch of mauraders gathered into a hord under the leadership of a khan.

i just assume that all these aliens have a name for: violent migratory warlord (khan) , just like they have a word for credits or minerals or battleships. the english words are used in the interface so we can understand and play the game without learning a different language
 

Itsalive

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Respectfully, that's the entire reason why these systems exist. If you can plan every empire out in advance, the game starts to feel rote. These resource systems introduce both scarcity and unpredictability, which forces you to plan around things you didn't expect. Not being able to build a unit because you lack something is a feature, not a bug. Same with resources popping up. It all forces you to come up with alternative solutions. If you can always follow the optimal build, you will. Scarcity forces alternative thinking.

That's completely fair. Certainly, to work well a system like this has to get the balance right.

Placement needs to be seeded so that there are enough resources on the game board to not feel starved. Trade needs to provide a reasonable alternative to conquest. (Generally. Although there's nothing wrong with backing a pacifist into a corner or forcing a warmonger to pay through the nose.) Too, asymmetry has to work well enough to allow you to plan around scarcity of strategic resources. If you can't build shields, then armor or engines or cloak or what-have-you all need to be reasonable alternatives. Critical resources you just have to obtain, which drives conflict, but strategic resource scarcity should offer multiple viable solutions.

So 100% agree, balance is key. Admittedly I use Civ as the example because I've had a better experience with it I think. My time with that game has felt more challenging than hamstrung.

And I'd also say, while I like the three-tiered resource model, it isn't the only option. I think it addresses two critical issues with the Stellaris midgame:

- Scarcity: Except for ascension perks you can have all of everything. Empires are wealthy enough that they generally don't have to plan around a lack of resources or make choices between mutually exclusive options.

- Disruption: Once the status quo sets in, nothing really challenges or changes that. The game needs something to occasionally disrupt the equilibrium and force players/empires out of their comfort zones.

So again, I think the three-tiered resource model works very well to achieve both of those goals, but it's certainly not the only way to do that.
leonardo-dicaprio-wine-glass.jpg



I was going to write similar post, also based on CIV experience I had in the past. Glad to see someone else doing all the hard work though :)

Resources properly handled would promote further depth and replayability. Currently only living metal, dark matter and zro feel like they give me something worthwhile. The rest all feels meh.

Some of the more interesting strategical situations in civ games were when you had researched certain strategic resource techs, noticed that your neighbourhing warmonger almost had access to them, and then coming up with a way to deny them to him, wether it would be through agressive expansion towards the resource (causing diplomatic issues further down the road), or pre-emptively declaring war ( an even more risky gambit) to make sure he could not access them.
Horse archers pillaging the hills of a fledgling roman empire to deny them praetorians/spearmen, hoping to choke their economy/ unit access enough to eventually be able to take out some cities since you currently lack the critical mass to do so specifically comes to mind.
 
Last edited:

ApocalipsA

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@Wiz can u remove the "relative power" example give my enemy fleet power is overwhelming and i know to don´t attack him. May in the future we will be able to pay someone to assassinate the enemy to give us informations about his income, fleet power and his Technology or his ship design. And may in the Futures are anomalies not only in Texts. Try to do it more spectacular like a short video at least in single player :)
_______________________________________________________________________
But u are a nice game director i rly like the changes for the new expansions. The game will become rly good.
 

Dr_Gentech

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@Wiz can u remove the "relative power" example give my enemy fleet power is overwhelming and i know to don´t attack him. May in the future we will be able to pay someone to assassinate the enemy to give us informations about his income, fleet power and his Technology or his ship design. And may in the Futures are anomalies not only in Texts. Try to do it more spectacular like a short video at least in single player :)
_______________________________________________________________________
But u are a nice game director i rly like the changes for the new expansions. The game will become rly good.
You made me laugh friendo. That is a very wholesome and nice way to ask for something that may not have the highest probability of happening.
 

Caligula Caesar

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Good work :) I recommend you run another proofreading pass through it, though - I saw several mistakes, e.g. "they inhabit a large number of space stations ... that houses" (should be "house"), and "It is She that bid us give up our ancestral planetary home" (should be "It is She that bade us to give up...", or better, "It was at Her behest that we gave up...).

I am amazed that I have more disagrees than agrees for this post, where did people learn their grammar??? :p
 

Goosecreature

Content Design Lead Stellaris
Paradox Staff
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Mar 2, 2012
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Well, I like the mechanics of the Marauders, but do they have to be so on the nose ''space Mongols''? I think it's unnecessary for them to so obviously resemble the human Mongol Empire, they're supposed to be aliens right?

They are not based solely on the Mongol Empire. There's some of Alexander the Great, some of the Mule, and some of the Peace of Muad'Dib in there as well.